True, but he wasn't a clean-up hitter. Jackie was mostly a top-of-the-order guy -- a role in which he excelled. Check out his runs scored and OB%.(Robinson) had ONE season above 100 RBIs, never hit 20 homers ...
you do realize those 10 years came AFTER he turned 28 (they used to not like darky's too much in this country)....he hit .311 for his career even though much of it was past his prime. I'm not even going to argue this. His 3rd best season on whatif he hit .308 and walked nearly 3 times as often as he struck out in case you were worried about me not looking it up.why? Especially if this is a career thing... he played 10 years...of course, the last 2 weren't anything to write home about...he had ONE season above 100 RBIs, never hit 20 homers, one season above .340 BA, one season AT .440 OB (none higher than that), one season above 30 stolen bases...his best year was great... 1949 30 BRO NL 156 593 122 203 38 12 16 124 37 86 27 .342 .432 .528 313 17 8 22but after that, what? 1952 33 BRO NL 149 510 104 157 17 3 19 75 24 7 106 40 .308 .440 .465 237 6 14 16that would be his second best probably... what's his third?as a major league baseball player, he was not that great of a player... He was a great man... but top 50 player ever?? I'm not sure about that....He belongs in this draft, but I am just not convinced its this high...Larry....you are a dumb ###.I'm thinking that is a little bit of a reach, he was a great man who did something that deserves a lot of respect...BUT, I am not sure he is one of the top 50 PLAYERS ever... he is probably one of the top 10 MEN who played, did one of the top few things anyone who ever played did...but... unfortunately, breaking the color-barrier doesn't help you win this...Jackie Robinson 2b/IF/OF....he'll play 2nd for me, but could move around in a pinch.
Edit for better formattingWhen it came to winning "the big game," there were few pitchers who compared with Bob Gibson. As outstanding as the St. Louis Cardinals' scowling righthander was at other times, he was at his most ferocious when the spotlight shined brightest. Twice in the 1960s this fierce competitor won the seventh game of the World Series (and he might have done it a third time if not for a misjudged fly ball). He holds Series records for winning seven consecutive games and pitching eight straight complete games. And nobody has ever struck out as many batters in a Series game (17) or in a Series (35). Not that the intense Gibson was a slouch in the regular season. One doesn't get into the Hall of Fame just for October successes. In a 10-year stretch, Gibson averaged 19 wins a season. In a six-year period, he was a 20-game winner five times (the only time he missed was when he was sidelined two months in 1967 after taking Roberto Clemente's line drive on the leg). And there was that marvelous year of 1968 when Gibson entered the record book for compiling a 1.12 ERA, the lowest number by a National League pitcher in modern times. The 6-foot-1, 190-pounder threw 13 shutouts, five consecutively, and in one 92-inning stretch, he allowed only two earned runs. He won the MVP and the first of his two Cy Young Awards. An intimidating presence who believed the inside part of the plate belonged to him, the hard thrower was the second pitcher in history (Walter Johnson was the first) to strike out 3,000 batters. Overcoming injury and illness, "Hoot" (he was nicknamed after the old cowboy Hoot Gibson) compiled a 251-174 record in his 17 seasons - all with the Cardinals. His 2.91 ERA is ninth lowest of all modern pitchers with at least 3,000 innings. Gibson was mean and tough on the mound. And not just to the opposition. Once, when catcher Tim McCarver walked out to settle down Gibson, the pitcher told him to get back behind the plate. "The only thing you know about pitching," Gibson said, "is how hard it is to hit." Gibson himself was a good hitter for a pitcher, batting .303 one year and slugging 26 homers in his career, including two in the World Series. A superb fielder, he won nine straight Gold Gloves from 1965 to 1973. The youngest of seven children, he was born on Nov. 9, 1935, in Omaha, Neb. His father died of tuberculosis before his birth and his mother Victoria worked in a laundry as she raised her kids in an Omaha ghetto. Gibson's early years were filled with many medical troubles: rickets, pneumonia, asthma, hay fever and a heart problem. Despite all the illnesses, Gibson became an all-around athlete, starring in baseball, basketball and track in high school. He accepted a basketball scholarship from Creighton in his hometown after he was turned down by Indiana, which already had its quota of black athletes. He also played baseball for Creighton and the Cardinals were impressed enough that they gave him a small bonus to sign in 1957. However, before deciding that he would devote himself exclusively to baseball, he played basketball one winter with the Harlem Globetrotters. It seems an odd pairing, the serious Gibson and the fun-loving Trotters. But just like the Globetrotters, who almost always won, Gibson always expected to win. He didn't do much of it, though, in his first two seasons (1959 and '60) with the Cardinals, going 6-11. He became a regular in the rotation in 1961 and though he led the National League in walks with 119, he went 13-12 with a 3.24 ERA. Improving his control and curve, Gibson had a 15-13 record with a 2.85 ERA in 1962. It also was the first of nine 200-strikeout seasons (208, compared to 95 walks). Gibson was on his way. In the next 10 seasons, he won 191 games. In 1964, the Cardinals rallied to overtake Philadelphia, winning the pennant by a game over the Phillies and Cincinnati Reds. Gibson did his part by winning nine of his last 11 decisions, including the pennant clincher as a reliever on the season's final day, to give him a 19-12 record. What made his performance even more impressive was that he pitched much of the season with severe arthritis in his right elbow, causing him quite a bit of pain. Gibson lost his first Series start to the New York Yankees in Game 2. He pitched eight innings, the only time he would fail to complete a game in nine Series starts. He gained a complete-game, 10-inning victory in Game 5 and then, pitching on two days rest and in pain, won the seventh game. The score was 8-5, with all the Yankees runs coming on three homers. "He pitched the last three innings on guts," manager Johnny Keane said about the Series MVP. Three years later, Gibson won the postseason honor again. He had missed two months of the 1967 season because of the Clemente line drive that broke his leg, but returned to pitch the pennant clincher against the Phillies in September. This was his only non-20-win season from 1965 to 1970, as he went 13-7. His teammates were delighted he was back as he won Games 1, 4 and 7 of the Series, limiting the Boston Red Sox to just three runs and 14 hits while striking out 26 in 27 innings. In 1968, Gibson dominated. Completing 28 of his 34 starts (304 2/3 innings), he went 22-9, with a 15-game winning streak. He won his only strikeout title with 268. The opening game of the Series matched, for the first time, Cy Young Award winners. Gibson was up to the challenge, striking out a record 17 Tigers in outdueling 31-game winner Denny McLain, 4-0. He beat McLain again in Game 4, and also homered in the 10-1 rout. Gibson had a different mound opponent in Game 7, Mickey Lolich, and the two locked up in a scoreless battle until centerfielder Curt Flood uncharacteristically misjudged a fly ball, allowing Jim Northrup's drive in the seventh inning to land for a two-run triple. While Gibson lost 4-1, he set the strikeout record with 35. In his nine Series games, Gibson had a 7-2 record with a 1.89 ERA and 92 strikeouts in 81 innings. The overpowering pitching by Gibson, McLain and others contributed to a significant change for 1969 - the lowering of the mound five inches in order to put more offense back into the game. It didn't bother Gibson much as he went 20-13 with a 2.18 ERA and 269 strikeouts. In 1970, he won a career-high 23 games, against just seven losses, with a personal-best 274 strikeouts and a 3.12 ERA. This performance earned him his second Cy Young Award. Gibson pitched his only no-hitter on Aug. 14, 1971, striking out 10 Pirates and walking three in an 11-0 victory. Arthritis and injuries took their toll and Gibson had losing records his final two seasons. He joined Johnson in the 3,000-strikeout club when he fanned the Reds' Cesar Geronimo on July 17, 1974 on his way to a total of 3,117 strikeouts. When he retired at 40 after going 3-10 in 1975, he had 56 shutouts and had completed 255 of his 482 starts. Gibson became a part owner of a bank and radio station in Omaha. He also stayed in baseball as an attitude coach of the New York Mets (1981), Atlanta Braves pitching coach (1982-84) and Cardinals bullpen coach (1995), as a television analyst and as a consultant to former American League president Gene Budig. Since 1996 he has worked for the Cardinals as a special instructor for their pitchers during spring training.
True, but he wasn't a clean-up hitter. Jackie was mostly a top-of-the-order guy -- a role in which he excelled. Check out his runs scored and OB%.(Robinson) had ONE season above 100 RBIs, never hit 20 homers ...
Yeah, but that dosn't so much matter in a team-assembly draft. Value is derived in other ways besides raw stats.Any MLB Top 50 list will be weighted towards certain positions -- mostly OF, 1B, and SPs high in Ks. So be it. But in a draft like this, you need to fill an entire roster out, and you need to get good value at thinner positions.I don't think, makes him a top 50 player...
I'd rather argue that I just saw Jesus Christ riding a fire breathing dragon down main street than that Jackie Robinson doesn't belong at the tail end of the third round of a baseball draft.Yeah, but that dosn't so much matter in a team-assembly draft.Any MLB Top 50 list will be weighted towards certain positions -- mostly OF, 1B, and SPs high in Ks. So be it. But in a draft like this, you need to fill an entire roster out, and you need to get good value at thinner positions.I don't think, makes him a top 50 player...
:rotflmao:I'd rather argue that I just saw Jesus Christ riding a fire breathing dragon down main street than that Jackie Robinson doesn't belong at the tail end of the third round of a baseball draft.Yeah, but that dosn't so much matter in a team-assembly draft.Any MLB Top 50 list will be weighted towards certain positions -- mostly OF, 1B, and SPs high in Ks. So be it. But in a draft like this, you need to fill an entire roster out, and you need to get good value at thinner positions.I don't think, makes him a top 50 player...
Bob Gibson's an interesting player to evaluate for this thing. If the sim was based on best season, his 1968 would make a strong case for him as #1 overall pick. The rest of his career was not as amazing, but still excellent. This is probably a fair spot for him overall.Bob GibsonNL MVP 1968Two time World Series MVPEight time All Star#12 on career strikeout list56 career shutouts255 career complete games5 time 20 game winnerOne of the fercest competitors ever in the game and atop the list of all time big game pitchers. If my squad is in a game seven, I want Gibson on the mound.
I'd rather argue that I just saw Jesus Christ riding a fire breathing dragon down main street than that Jackie Robinson doesn't belong at the tail end of the third round of a baseball draft.Yeah, but that dosn't so much matter in a team-assembly draft.Any MLB Top 50 list will be weighted towards certain positions -- mostly OF, 1B, and SPs high in Ks. So be it. But in a draft like this, you need to fill an entire roster out, and you need to get good value at thinner positions.I don't think, makes him a top 50 player...
That's almost Nipsey quality therethat actually made me laugh really hard..:rotflmao:I'd rather argue that I just saw Jesus Christ riding a fire breathing dragon down main street than that Jackie Robinson doesn't belong at the tail end of the third round of a baseball draft.Yeah, but that dosn't so much matter in a team-assembly draft.Any MLB Top 50 list will be weighted towards certain positions -- mostly OF, 1B, and SPs high in Ks. So be it. But in a draft like this, you need to fill an entire roster out, and you need to get good value at thinner positions.I don't think, makes him a top 50 player...
not him -- he went last nightmy picks are Eddie Collins ...
*goes back and picks someone else*not him -- he went last nightmy picks are Eddie Collins ...
You mean Frank Thomas from the 1960s Mets teams, right? :rotflmao:my picks are ... Frank Thomas ...

no, I mean Frank Thomas of the Chicago White Sox with 2 MVPs and top 10 in TONS of all-time batting categories...wait for the write-up... lolYou mean Frank Thomas from the 1960s Mets teams, right? :rotflmao:my picks are ... Frank Thomas ...![]()
Thanks Doug. I was pleasantly surprised he was still there. Obviously it is all personal opinion, but at least 4-5 pitcher went off the board that I have ranked after Seaver. Plus, I am a Mets fan that never really got to see him play. Seaver is a Met, if you think he is a Sox, then Im not winning that vote. haha.For me, Seaver was right there with Brett and a few other guys. Koya done did good.Not at the top of my short list, but close. Now I have to be nervous.koya--tom seaver
Nice pick. Got down to him and Jackson for me. Impossible decision. Part of me wishes I took Banks. Nice work.Amen about the coffee. I'll take Ernie Banks. 5 40-HR run seasons. 512 career HRs. 2 MVP awards. Mr. Cub.
Larry has a history of making "interesting" third round picks...Fank bleeping Thomas in round 3? This one is way out of left field IMHO.
I really wanted to pick Gibson. However, I could not put him above about 4-5 other pictchers. He had that one UNGODLY year, but outside of that, as intimidating and great as he was, I have him a round later.Yup ...I'm up hmmm there are two guys I'm torn between here, considering who is up before my next pick might be a run on pitchers so I'll go in that direction.
Whith pick #13 in round Three the Curse Reversing Idiots select:
Bob Gibson
Write-up coming just wanted to get the name out ther to keep the pace.![]()
Another on that short list with Seaver and Brett.
...
Sing it, Freddie:
... and another one's down
and another one's down
another one bites the dust!
:(
Actually, I would not be surprised to see those late 60s years to be looked upon with a critical computer sim eye. It was as much a ptichers era as ever.Bob Gibson's an interesting player to evaluate for this thing. If the sim was based on best season, his 1968 would make a strong case for him as #1 overall pick. The rest of his career was not as amazing, but still excellent. This is probably a fair spot for him overall.Bob GibsonNL MVP 1968Two time World Series MVPEight time All Star#12 on career strikeout list56 career shutouts255 career complete games5 time 20 game winnerOne of the fercest competitors ever in the game and atop the list of all time big game pitchers. If my squad is in a game seven, I want Gibson on the mound.
I'm baffled as well. Maybe he has some really awesome stats in County Stadium.Fank bleeping Thomas in round 3? This one is way out of left field IMHO.
Thomas has played 15 years, and his top several seasons will match up with anyone's. You gotta like a true power hitter that doesn't fritter away his average chasing bad pitches. Thomas has an amazing batting eye -- at his best, an eye on par with Barry Bonds, IMHO.What exactly is the problem?Fank bleeping Thomas in round 3? This one is way out of left field IMHO.
Statisticaly hitting maybe, but other than that he's pretty suspect(defense, speed, leadership etc.).Just doesn't pop into my mind when I think all time grreats. The SIM is not my #1 priority, that is the route I have chosen to take in this, Thomas may be balls to the wall in whatif but in real life I'm not impressed by his "overall game".Thomas has played 15 years, and his top several seasons will match up with anyone's. What exactly is the problem?Fank bleeping Thomas in round 3? This one is way out of left field IMHO.

I agree.While Thomas is a liability on defense and the basepaths, and plays a deep position, his hitting numbers (especially OBP) are more than worthy of a pick here. He's 13th all time in adjusted OPS.Thomas has played 15 years, and his top several seasons will match up with anyone's. What exactly is the problem?Fank bleeping Thomas in round 3? This one is way out of left field IMHO.
You're going to have to explain what the hell this means, 'cause I'm not buying it.If player X has a higher salary that player Y, player X is going to beat him consistantly, no? I see this sim like poker. If Babe Ruth is A-K and Frank Thomas is Q-10, big slick is going to win how ever many percent of the time. I think it's like that. They take the raw salary numbers (starting hand) and throw in a bit variable like stadium, etc... (the flop). Stop with the BS about the '60's being a pitching era, his salary is his salary.....Actually, I would not be surprised to see those late 60s years to be looked upon with a critical computer sim eye. It was as much a ptichers era as ever.
Thomas is a fine player (especially for the sim). Just think he could have been selected much later, especially at that deep position.Thomas has played 15 years, and his top several seasons will match up with anyone's. You gotta like a true power hitter that doesn't fritter away his average chasing bad pitches. Thomas has an amazing batting eye -- at his best, an eye on par with Barry Bonds, IMHO.What exactly is the problem?Fank bleeping Thomas in round 3? This one is way out of left field IMHO.
he will be a Hall of Famer...

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: wow..Quite frankly, Frank Thomas is almost as good as Barry Bonds at the plate and he plays 1B rather than OF...
I like it. One of my favorites. Can't really go wrong with him, was hoping he was going to slide....This pick is more for the vote than the sim, although I think he'll be a solid sim player as well...Carl Yastrzemski, OFFirst ballot Hall-of-Famer, seven gold gloves, 1967 Triple Crown, 3 batting titles, 5 time OBP leader, 3 time slugging leader, 4 time OPS leader, tons of win shares, and so on...Just an excellent all-around ballplayer and a winner all the way around.