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***OFFICIAL*** FFA MLB Draft (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
I think it was a combination of things. The first being a lot of pitchers have gone so certain position players have been available later than expected. Another is the fact that he just doesn't separate himself THAT much from the other catchers like some guys at other positions do. I highly doubt anybody didn't have him as a top 3 catcher (unless they are still hung up on the sim $'s). I think more people are willing to put a good defensive catcher in the 8 spot in their batting order than spend the extra high draft pick to get a better bat that still isn't going to be the kind of bat you can find at other positions this early. If you took a guy like Piazza obviously you were looking at getting a ton of production out of a defensive position (and either counting on the sim's rankings not including his terrible throwing...which I find unlikely) or just being willing to give up extra bases on steals to the other team to get another run producer in your line-up. It's a tremendous value pick as far as the player going after some of the other catchers he went after...but you had to pass up the chance to get premium players at other spots to do it. I personally didn't want to spend a 4th round pick on a guy that would proboably hit in the bottom 3rd of my order.edited to add and yes I think Piazza went WAY too early...that's similar to the Frank Thomas pick. You got NO defense just to get a good bat (while there are plenty of other good bats still available)...the only thing you can say about Piazza is the fact that he proboably is the best hitter to ever play catcher for an extended period of time in the major leagues...but he's never been a very good catcher.
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Oh, for sure. Great bat for a catcher. If he hits in the 3,4 or 5 hole (the heart of your order) you don't have a very good all-time line-up and better count on your pitching. He doesn't fit at the top of the order. So he's hitting 6,7, or 8...great to have a good bat down there for sure, but I just personally wanted to get guys that would produce at the top and middle of my order more and figured catcher is the one spot it'd be very easy to just go defense w/ and give a relatively easy out away in the 8 spot. If I could have anybody i wanted Bench is on my team every time. If I've got to spend a pick on it...catcher is one spot I'm willing to wait on to hopefully get better producers elsewhere w/ the higher picks.
I'm sure Johny Bench put up more than 3 great seasons. If you don't have a great statistical 3rd best year, it means you didn't have that many great years (many guys only have 1 or 2) and don't really belong. It's not like we're saying take his 7th year of service or some arbitrary number...it's saying we're not going to give you your best or even second best season...you had better have had atleast 3 great seasons to be here. It's not sarcasm when it just doesn't make any sense.....It is simple (please turn ON sarcasm detector) Bench must have had a statstically anomalgous poor third year (work with me as I make up words). Therefore, he is not nearly as good a player as everyone once thought.
If it was his 3rd season in the show and we were using something like that you'd have anomolies...like if we said we'll take what every guy did when he was 28 (a good round number for most guy's primes) you'd get anomolies...the way we are doing it you don't. Sarcasm would be saying, "it must have been Piazza's glove that pushed him over the top...". What you said....well it isn't sarcasm. Kind of like how that one chick didn't know what Irony meant...:sarcasmpolice:
Koya
Footballguy
Actually it was sarcasm but I do not think either of us have the Nipsey in us to make this a fight. Ill just let it pass, if you do.Bench was awesome. Nuff said?edit to add--- I THINK its sarcasm. could be wrong. too much thinking thoughI'm sure Johny Bench put up more than 3 great seasons. If you don't have a great statistical 3rd best year, it means you didn't have that many great years (many guys only have 1 or 2) and don't really belong. It's not like we're saying take his 7th year of service or some arbitrary number...it's saying we're not going to give you your best or even second best season...you had better have had atleast 3 great seasons to be here. It's not sarcasm when it just doesn't make any sense.....It is simple (please turn ON sarcasm detector) Bench must have had a statstically anomalgous poor third year (work with me as I make up words). Therefore, he is not nearly as good a player as everyone once thought.
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Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Paging Bogart..
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Here is Bench's third salaried season:621 ABs108 Runs174 Hits38 2Bs2 3Bs33 HRs129 RBI5 SB4 CS80 BBs90 SOs .280 BA.363 OBP.507 SLG315 TBObviously, he didn't drop because of a bad third salaried year at whatifsports. Congrats Capella on a great value pick.I'm sure Johny Bench put up more than 3 great seasons. If you don't have a great statistical 3rd best year, it means you didn't have that many great years (many guys only have 1 or 2) and don't really belong. It's not like we're saying take his 7th year of service or some arbitrary number...it's saying we're not going to give you your best or even second best season...you had better have had atleast 3 great seasons to be here. It's not sarcasm when it just doesn't make any sense.....It is simple (please turn ON sarcasm detector) Bench must have had a statstically anomalgous poor third year (work with me as I make up words). Therefore, he is not nearly as good a player as everyone once thought.
Koya
Footballguy
MY GOD I WAS KIDDING ABOUT THE THIRD YEAR.Goodness. If someone needs to look at wis to know if Bench was good or not, then wtf are they doing in this draft?Here is Bench's third salaried season:621 ABs108 Runs174 Hits38 2Bs2 3Bs33 HRs129 RBI5 SB4 CS80 BBs90 SOs .280 BA.363 OBP.507 SLG315 TBObviously, he didn't drop because of a bad third salaried year at whatifsports. Congrats Capella on a great value pick.I'm sure Johny Bench put up more than 3 great seasons. If you don't have a great statistical 3rd best year, it means you didn't have that many great years (many guys only have 1 or 2) and don't really belong. It's not like we're saying take his 7th year of service or some arbitrary number...it's saying we're not going to give you your best or even second best season...you had better have had atleast 3 great seasons to be here. It's not sarcasm when it just doesn't make any sense.....It is simple (please turn ON sarcasm detector) Bench must have had a statstically anomalgous poor third year (work with me as I make up words). Therefore, he is not nearly as good a player as everyone once thought.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Sisler wouldn't have made it past 4.15He would have been perfect for my park.
lastresort66
Crude Noisemaker
GDB Bogart not PM'ing his picks just in case.
Absolutely. Playing in a park like that and building around pitching w/ the idea of "manufacturing" runs. That's why I like the Gwynn pick so much for you. In a park like that how many extra hits are gonna fall in?...how many singles are gonna turn into doubles or triples? This is going to be very interesting to see the contrasting styles of "team building" if nothing else.
Capella
Footballguy
thank you sir.Here is Bench's third salaried season:621 ABs108 Runs174 Hits38 2Bs2 3Bs33 HRs129 RBI5 SB4 CS80 BBs90 SOs .280 BA.363 OBP.507 SLG315 TBObviously, he didn't drop because of a bad third salaried year at whatifsports. Congrats Capella on a great value pick.I'm sure Johny Bench put up more than 3 great seasons. If you don't have a great statistical 3rd best year, it means you didn't have that many great years (many guys only have 1 or 2) and don't really belong. It's not like we're saying take his 7th year of service or some arbitrary number...it's saying we're not going to give you your best or even second best season...you had better have had atleast 3 great seasons to be here. It's not sarcasm when it just doesn't make any sense.....It is simple (please turn ON sarcasm detector) Bench must have had a statstically anomalgous poor third year (work with me as I make up words). Therefore, he is not nearly as good a player as everyone once thought.
I may do a little write-up on all the teams. See how boring these games are tonight, and how bad I'm losing at poker.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Any input on my Frankie Frisch pick? No one said anything when I took him.To me it's like having an Ozzie Smith at second base (great range, average arm), which should help with all these great left handed hitters. Also helps that he can be used in the top of the lineup offensively and NEVER strikes out.
It's the way to go in your park. Take away hits in the field and get guys whose particular abilities (like putting the ball in play) are advanced by all the extra space for those balls to fall into. Once you chose that park it was the only way to go imo.A side note on the parks. There really aren't that MANY great pitchers parks when you break it down in this thing...more neutral or even hitters parks. It's just some of the pitchers parks that were chosen are the absolute best pitchers (meaning don't allow hr's...I still think some teams are gonna go in and score there) of all time.
editing to add I'm also going back and forth on my pick...disregard that list Commish Cappy.
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Koya
Footballguy
I think it was a solid pick, but I think he may have slid as well, and there may have been other options at the position. Can not tell you how he will sim (for one, I am not as familiar with Frankie as I should be, and second I have no idea how this sim will work out) but in terms of name recognition, (which is not something that means anything except popularity) certainly will not help.I think it is a solid role... the question is are you building role by role or best player available? That question can only be answered once we see the full roster.
The one thing I'll say about trying to get "value" picks and guess when guys will fall is that it is VERY hard to do picking from a "corner" in the draft. You tell yourself you'll wait to see if say, a catcher, will fall and between your 4th and 5th round picks (I think 26 slots for me) your list is completely obliterated. If you see a guy you like who is a "perfect fit" I think you take him in this type of thing (particularly if you draft at a slot where you can miss out on the "runs"...not so much if you get a middle slot).
Koya
Footballguy
UCONN - good points, and true of most drafts. Especially with 16 owners. I try to stay in front of, rather than behind a run. If I am about to get the 7th best guy, Ill more likely wait and get the 12th, as opposed to seeing there are still #3-8 of a certain position and thinking I can wait. Then I get mediocrity all around.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
One of the reasons Bench dropped for me (and I'll add I had pm'd Cappy to take him for me in I think round 3, but instead took Banks when Cappy was too slow
), was that in the end there just wasn't that big of dropoff offensively between him and number 8 or 9. It ended up being more a value thing than anything else. I also add that I don't put much faith in any of these defensive stats (the whole is Jeter a good SS or not). Granted with a catcher you can measure some stuff better, but it's still problematic. I think there are at least a few others in this draft thinking that way as well.I also think he fell because a lot us are drafting for "roles" on the team. We all want a leadoff guy, a #4 guy, etc. Frankly, most of the catchers don't fall into any of these roles. Even now, I couldn't rationalize taking a guy who would end up batting 6th,7th, or 8th in my lineup that early. As someone else said, I'd much rather get the marginal catcher and plug him in the 8 hole late in the draft. To make a football anology, right or wrong, in the end I viewed the entire catcher position like a Kicker or Defense. The best one may be great, but I'll still be competative with the marginal one. I may not be at some of the other positions. All that said he's a steal where he was drafted
), was that in the end there just wasn't that big of dropoff offensively between him and number 8 or 9. It ended up being more a value thing than anything else. I also add that I don't put much faith in any of these defensive stats (the whole is Jeter a good SS or not). Granted with a catcher you can measure some stuff better, but it's still problematic. I think there are at least a few others in this draft thinking that way as well.I also think he fell because a lot us are drafting for "roles" on the team. We all want a leadoff guy, a #4 guy, etc. Frankly, most of the catchers don't fall into any of these roles. Even now, I couldn't rationalize taking a guy who would end up batting 6th,7th, or 8th in my lineup that early. As someone else said, I'd much rather get the marginal catcher and plug him in the 8 hole late in the draft. To make a football anology, right or wrong, in the end I viewed the entire catcher position like a Kicker or Defense. The best one may be great, but I'll still be competative with the marginal one. I may not be at some of the other positions. All that said he's a steal where he was drafted
oso diablo
Footballguy
It's true that Frisch rarely struck out, but his OBP wasn't terrific, at least not high enough (369) to really rate as a top of the order guy in an all-time lineup. Other teams can counter with a Raines (389), Henderson (401), ECollins (424), Morgan (392), etc. And to boot, those other guys weren't playing in their prime during an explosive offensive era like Frisch was.On the plus side, Frisch was known as fiery competitor, a hard worker, a big-game player, and a catalyst for his teammates. Great traits on any team.I just suspect that he's better suited for the 7 or 8 hole on an all-time team.
Funkley
Collar: Up
Frisch was a good pick. 2B isn't all that loaded compared to other positions. He was certainly stolen from my MI list. Bench shouldn't have slid but yet I wouldn't take him over Killebrew and I was committed to going pitching in the 4th round. If enough people pass on a guy for similar reasons that's how players slide. Then everyone looks back and says he's a steal. In reality he probably went right where he should and is a darn solid pick. Fun draft so far. Everyone has a really stacked team. I don't see a true front runner yet.
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larry_boy_44
Footballguy
wait until you see my next picks...
Kraft...
Footballguy
For the new page
Updated picks
ROUND ONE
1.1 pumpnick -- SP Walter Johnson
1.2 Spock -- SP Sandy Koufax
1.3 lastresort -- OF Babe Ruth
1.4 Capella -- OF Willie Mays
1.5 Nipsey -- SP CY Young
1.6 Sammy3469 --OF Ted Williams
1.7 Pickles -- 1B Lou Gehrig
1.8 Harrier -- OF Barry Bonds
1.9 Doug B -- OF Stan Musial
1.10 bogart -- 2B Rogers Hornsby
1.11 Koya -- P Lefty Grove
1.12 funkley -- OF Ty Cobb
1.13 Kraft -- OF Hank Aaron
1.14 UCONN -- OF Mickey Mantle
1.15 Spartans -- SS Honus Wagner
1.16 LarryBoy -- SP Christy Mathewson
2.1 Larryboy -- SP Roger Clemens
2.2 Spartans -- SP Pedro Martinez
2.3 UCONN -- OF Tris Speaker
2.4 Kraft -- OF Joltin' Joe DiMaggio
2.5 funkley -- 1B Jimmy Foxx
2.6 koya -- 3B Mike Schmidt
2.7 Bogart -- OF Rickey Henderson
2.8 Doug B -- SP Warren Spahn
2.9 Harrier -- SP Grover Cleveland Alexander
2.10 Pickles -- OF Frank Robinson
2.11 Sammy -- 3B Eddie Matthews
2.12 Nipsey -- 2B Joe Morgan
2.13 Capella -- 2B/3B/1B/OF Pete Rose
2.14 Last Resort - 2B Eddie Collins
2.15 Spock - SP Nolan Ryan
2.16 Pumpnick - 2B Nap Lajoie
3.1 pumpnick -- SP Greg Maddux
3.2 Spock -- SP Steve Carlton
3.3 lastresort -- 1B Mark McGwire
3.4 Capella -- SP Randy Johnson
3.5 Nipsey -- OF Joe Jackson
3.6 Sammy3469 -- SS/IB Ernie Banks
3.7 Pickles -- OF/3B Mel Ott
3.8 Harrier -- SP Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown
3.9 Doug B -- 3B George Brett
3.10 bogart -- OF Billy Hamilton
3.11 Koya -- SP Tom Seaver
3.12 funkley -- 3B Harmon Killebrew
3.13 Kraft -- SP Bob Gibson
3.14 UCONN -- 2B Jackie Robinson
3.15 Spartans -- SP Hal Newhouser
3.16 LarryBoy -- 1B Frank Thomas
4.01 LarryBoy -- 2B Charlie Gehringer
4.02 Spartans -- OF Carl Yastrzemski
4.03 UCONN -- SS Arky Vaughan
4.04 Kraft -- 1B George Sisler
4.05 Funkley -- SP Juan Marichal
4.06 Koya -- OF Ken Griffey Jr.
4.07 Bogart -- C Mickey Cochrane
4.08 Doug B -- OF Tim Raines
4.09 Harrier -- C Mike Piazza
4.10 Pickles -- C Yogi Berra
4.11 Sammy -- 2B Rod Carew
4.12 Nipsey -- 1B/OF Hank Greenberg
4.13 Capella -- OF Roberto Clemente
4.14 Lastresort -- 3B Wade Boggs
4.15 Spock -- 2B Frankie Frisch
4.16 Pumpnick -- OF Duke Snider
5.1 pumpnick -- SP Carl Hubbell
5.2 Spock -- OF Tony Gwynn
5.3 lastresort -- OF Al Simmons
5.4 Capella -- C Johnny Bench
5.5 Nipsey -- Bob Feller
5.6 Sammy3469 -- OF Ed Delahanty
5.7 Pickles -- SP Whitey Ford
5.8 Harrier -- SP Ed Walsh
5.9 Doug B -- 1B Eddie Murray
5.10 bogart -- ON THE CLOCK
5.11 Koya
5.12 funkley
5.13 Kraft
5.14 UCONN
5.15 Spartans
5.16 LarryBoy
Updated picks
ROUND ONE
1.1 pumpnick -- SP Walter Johnson
1.2 Spock -- SP Sandy Koufax
1.3 lastresort -- OF Babe Ruth
1.4 Capella -- OF Willie Mays
1.5 Nipsey -- SP CY Young
1.6 Sammy3469 --OF Ted Williams
1.7 Pickles -- 1B Lou Gehrig
1.8 Harrier -- OF Barry Bonds
1.9 Doug B -- OF Stan Musial
1.10 bogart -- 2B Rogers Hornsby
1.11 Koya -- P Lefty Grove
1.12 funkley -- OF Ty Cobb
1.13 Kraft -- OF Hank Aaron
1.14 UCONN -- OF Mickey Mantle
1.15 Spartans -- SS Honus Wagner
1.16 LarryBoy -- SP Christy Mathewson
2.1 Larryboy -- SP Roger Clemens
2.2 Spartans -- SP Pedro Martinez
2.3 UCONN -- OF Tris Speaker
2.4 Kraft -- OF Joltin' Joe DiMaggio
2.5 funkley -- 1B Jimmy Foxx
2.6 koya -- 3B Mike Schmidt
2.7 Bogart -- OF Rickey Henderson
2.8 Doug B -- SP Warren Spahn
2.9 Harrier -- SP Grover Cleveland Alexander
2.10 Pickles -- OF Frank Robinson
2.11 Sammy -- 3B Eddie Matthews
2.12 Nipsey -- 2B Joe Morgan
2.13 Capella -- 2B/3B/1B/OF Pete Rose
2.14 Last Resort - 2B Eddie Collins
2.15 Spock - SP Nolan Ryan
2.16 Pumpnick - 2B Nap Lajoie
3.1 pumpnick -- SP Greg Maddux
3.2 Spock -- SP Steve Carlton
3.3 lastresort -- 1B Mark McGwire
3.4 Capella -- SP Randy Johnson
3.5 Nipsey -- OF Joe Jackson
3.6 Sammy3469 -- SS/IB Ernie Banks
3.7 Pickles -- OF/3B Mel Ott
3.8 Harrier -- SP Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown
3.9 Doug B -- 3B George Brett
3.10 bogart -- OF Billy Hamilton
3.11 Koya -- SP Tom Seaver
3.12 funkley -- 3B Harmon Killebrew
3.13 Kraft -- SP Bob Gibson
3.14 UCONN -- 2B Jackie Robinson
3.15 Spartans -- SP Hal Newhouser
3.16 LarryBoy -- 1B Frank Thomas
4.01 LarryBoy -- 2B Charlie Gehringer
4.02 Spartans -- OF Carl Yastrzemski
4.03 UCONN -- SS Arky Vaughan
4.04 Kraft -- 1B George Sisler
4.05 Funkley -- SP Juan Marichal
4.06 Koya -- OF Ken Griffey Jr.
4.07 Bogart -- C Mickey Cochrane
4.08 Doug B -- OF Tim Raines
4.09 Harrier -- C Mike Piazza
4.10 Pickles -- C Yogi Berra
4.11 Sammy -- 2B Rod Carew
4.12 Nipsey -- 1B/OF Hank Greenberg
4.13 Capella -- OF Roberto Clemente
4.14 Lastresort -- 3B Wade Boggs
4.15 Spock -- 2B Frankie Frisch
4.16 Pumpnick -- OF Duke Snider
5.1 pumpnick -- SP Carl Hubbell
5.2 Spock -- OF Tony Gwynn
5.3 lastresort -- OF Al Simmons
5.4 Capella -- C Johnny Bench
5.5 Nipsey -- Bob Feller
5.6 Sammy3469 -- OF Ed Delahanty
5.7 Pickles -- SP Whitey Ford
5.8 Harrier -- SP Ed Walsh
5.9 Doug B -- 1B Eddie Murray
5.10 bogart -- ON THE CLOCK
5.11 Koya
5.12 funkley
5.13 Kraft
5.14 UCONN
5.15 Spartans
5.16 LarryBoy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
If I get the guys I am targeting, he will be in the 7th or 8th slot. But it's nice that I don't feel I HAVE to get this guy or that guy by a certain round or else I won't have a guy to work with Gwynn and set the table. That's why I said "it also helps that he can be used in the top of the lineup".To answer Koya's question, in every round I've passed on "best available" players because I am drafting specific types of players. I would call it a role, like "clean up hitter", but more that the way they play "fits" within the "team". As we get deeper into the draft, I may take a "best available" if his style wouldn't disrupt the team makeup.
