***OFFICIAL*** FFA MLB Draft (1 Viewer)

[larry_boy_44]

I have been debating IRod for a while. I love his speed at catcher. Yount was there on the list, and one of the reasons I was so happy with A Rod. Yount is a top 5 shortstop according to many. But his #s pale compared to A Rods.I am also interested to see Yount go now and not after someone not yet picked. When I took a SS, I thought that could be the start of a SS run - I dont see how many if any worth their weight on offense will be around NEXT round.

I considered the guy you are referring to...the main reason i picked Yount first is because of Yount's 2 MVPs, one playing SS and one playing CF.... so he could play OF or SS and be just fine...there are other reasons, too... I'll get more into it when the other guy gets picked...

 

[Koya]

8 Members: Koya, SteelCurtain, larry_boy_44, UCONN, Funkley, Bogart, Politician Spock, IndividuallyWrapedKraftSingles

Looks like we can make a little run, here. Next 4 picks are in thread.

 

[Bogart]

I was looking at Jackson too, but strikes out WAY too much. In the right lineup, talk about a presence. But, with Schmidt (also from the same era... lower overages in general and power was not so easy to come by either!), and to a lesser degree A Rod and Griff, I did not want another K machine in the lineup. It doesnt get more clutch than Reggie though. Underated a little in the outfield too... although he was no Joe D. in the outfield.

I agree that the strikeouts are high, but when you look at my lineup (or the finished version) he will fit in perfect, and do his job - crush the ball anytime you connect. With Henderson, Hamiliton and Hornsby batting in front of him, there is more than likely a guy on second every time he comes up.

 

[Koya]

Kraft, you alive? Your PMs are full.

 

[larry_boy_44]

6.1Robin YountBats: R Throws: RPlayed: 1974-1993Lived: 1954-currentPlayed for: The Milwaukee Brewers (1974-1993)Best years: 1982 26 MIL AL 156 635 129 210 46 12 29 114 14 3 54 63 .331 .379 .578 367 4 10 2 1 19 1989 33 MIL AL 160 614 101 195 38 9 21 103 19 3 63 71 .318 .384 .511 314 3 4 9 6 91987 31 MIL AL 158 635 99 198 25 9 21 103 19 9 76 94 .312 .384 .479 304 6 5 10 1 9 1988 32 MIL AL 162 621 92 190 38 11 13 91 22 4 63 63 .306 .369 .465 289 2 7 10 3 21 1980 24 MIL AL 143 611 121 179 49 10 23 87 20 5 26 67 .293 .321 .519 317 6 3 1 1 8Accomplishments/Awards:2 time AL MVP (1982, 1989)only player to EVER win the MVP while playing primarily at 2 different positions (SS in 1982, CF in 1989)3 time All Star (1980, 1982, 1983)1 time AL Gold Glove (1982)top 10 in Batting Average 6 times (1982, 1983, 1986-1989)Led League in Slugging % once (1982)Led League in OPS once (1982)Top 10 in OPS two other times (1983, 1989)Led League in Hits 1 time (1982)Top 10 in Hits 6 other times (1980, 1983, 1987-1989)Led league in Doubles twice (1980, 1982)Led League in Triples twice (1983, 1988)3,142 hits on his careerElected to the Hall of Fame in 1999A great player, the greatest Brewer ever. Yes, Aaron was a better player, but he only played here for 2 years, Yount played for 20 and led the Brewers to the World Series...Also, another amazing thought: Yount led the league in salary in 1990... my how the Brewers have fallen (}=O( they did used to care)...A great player who did a lot of great things. MVP at SS and CF, something no other player has done. A great player and is used to County Stadium, knows the field there, since he has already played there for 20 years...

 

[Koya]

I was looking at Jackson too, but strikes out WAY too much. In the right lineup, talk about a presence. But, with Schmidt (also from the same era... lower overages in general and power was not so easy to come by either!), and to a lesser degree A Rod and Griff, I did not want another K machine in the lineup. It doesnt get more clutch than Reggie though. Underated a little in the outfield too... although he was no Joe D. in the outfield.

I agree that the strikeouts are high, but when you look at my lineup (or the finished version) he will fit in perfect, and do his job - crush the ball anytime you connect. With Henderson, Hamiliton and Hornsby batting in front of him, there is more than likely a guy on second every time he comes up.

Better hope they are on first, or have runners on first or second. Otherwise Reggie is getting an unintentional walk, with the hope that he takes a couple ill advised swings into a DP or strike out!As I mentioned, in the right lineup, he is Gold. Depending who you have behind him and who you can find for picthing, that is what he might very well be for ya. Nice pick.

 

[shuke]

Kraft, you alive? Your PMs are full.

If you guys see him, let him know he's up in the cereal draft also. TIA.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Kraft, you alive? Your PMs are full.

If you guys see him, let him know he's up in the cereal draft also. TIA.

that's still going on?

 

[shuke]

Kraft, you alive? Your PMs are full.

If you guys see him, let him know he's up in the cereal draft also. TIA.

that's still going on?

Yes, still a round ahead of this cluster####.

 

[Koya]

Yount is an interesting case. There may not be a player with "less spectacular" numbers who garners so much acclaim. Another player that was surely affected by his era. Add 20 pts to his average, and 15% to his power numbers (im just guessing here) and things look mighty different. Well, had Yount not played in his era, that is the numbers boost he may very well have had. I would love to have a basic chart re: different eras and equalization. Like, the 30's were 20% more than the norm, the late 60's were 15% less than the norm... something like that. Because otherwise someone will simply say.. but look at Younts "pick stat number here", it doesnt hold up. When in reality, it does, and quite well.

 

[UCONN]

Kraft, you alive? Your PMs are full.

If you guys see him, let him know he's up in the cereal draft also. TIA.

that's still going on?

Yes, still a round ahead of this cluster####.

No position eligibility requirement debates after 12 page rules threads or Mr. Ham hijacks?

 

[Koya]

Kraft, you alive? Your PMs are full.

If you guys see him, let him know he's up in the cereal draft also. TIA.

that's still going on?

Yes, still a round ahead of this cluster####.

No position eligibility requirement debates after 12 page rules threads or Mr. Ham hijacks?

Who is this Mr. Ham you speak of?

 

[larry_boy_44]

Yount is an interesting case. There may not be a player with "less spectacular" numbers who garners so much acclaim. Another player that was surely affected by his era. Add 20 pts to his average, and 15% to his power numbers (im just guessing here) and things look mighty different. Well, had Yount not played in his era, that is the numbers boost he may very well have had. I would love to have a basic chart re: different eras and equalization. Like, the 30's were 20% more than the norm, the late 60's were 15% less than the norm... something like that. Because otherwise someone will simply say.. but look at Younts "pick stat number here", it doesnt hold up. When in reality, it does, and quite well.

I agree with that, but if you look at the awards and the best in league spots he had (1982 especially) its obvious that he was one of the best hitters of his era...I mean, he led the league in slugging and he hit, what, 25 home runs???

 

[10993]

Mike Piazza is a great defensive catcher, he just can't throw guys out

I'm growing very tired of unenlightened baseball fans citing Mike Piazza as a poor defensive catcher. Almost all of Piazza's defensive criticism stems from his mediocre (at-best) ability to throw out baserunners, but this stat has been proven to be somewhat iconsequential, especially in light of other aspects of the position.

1. CERA (Catcher's ERA)

Piazza's CERA is considered low. CERA is not a useless stat, but it can be biased based on the pitching staffs you have caught. Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings, here is Piazza's CERA versus his team's ERA:

2003: Piazza 3.97, Mets 4.48

2002: Piazza 3.84, Mets 3.89

2001: Piazza 4.05, Mets 4.07

2000: Piazza 3.87, Mets 4.16

Pretty interesting stuff eh? The Mets are a better team with Piazza catching, every year. His CERA is always lower than the team ERA, most noticeably in 2000, when the Mets went to the World Series.

In addition, Piazza's CERA is significantly lower than Vance Wilson's CERA, who is an expert defensive catcher. Piazza's CERA over the last bunch of years is below 4, Wilson's is 4.40, catching the same pitching staff.

The half run Piazza saves every game is worth MUCH more than the occasional stolen base he may give up during the course of a game.

2. Fielding Percentage

Vance Wilson, considered one of the best defensive catchers in the game, has a career FPCT of .988. Mike Piazza's career FPCT is .989. Piazza lets 1 past ball by for every 132 innings he catches. Vance lets one by in 1 out of every 134 innings pitched.

Considering Vance is considered one of the best defensive catchers in the game, you would have to admit that Piazza's fielding abilities are as good or better than Vance's, especially when you consider he's 35 years old now.

3. Range

Well, Piazza is a slow guy right? He must have no range (even though it isn't that important for a catcher). Well, here you go: Piazza's career range factor is 7.78. Vance has a career RF of 7.39. Looks like Piazza is better than you would think at jumping out on bunts and catching those foul popups along the walls.

4. Knowledge

Piazza has spent 13 seasons catching in the National League. He's also a hitter that hits for power and average. You would be hard-pressed to find a catcher with more experience and/or knowledge than Piazza.

5. Arm

Piazza's arm is his one weakness, but how much of a weakness is it? Piazza gives up one stolen base every 10 innings (not even one per game). The best throwers in all of baseball give up one stolen base per two games. If Vance Wilson and Mike Piazza both caught 1000 innings (a typical season for a catcher), Piazza would give up 100 stolen bases, Vance would give up 50. Over the course of a 140 game season, that is 1 extra stolen base per 3 games. So twice a week, Piazza gives up an extra base over someone with a known cannon like Vance Wilson. There are plenty of big named catchers who are as bad (or worse) than Piazza at throwing. Just last season, 11 starting catchers finished with a lower CS PCT than Piazza did, including names like Varitek, Posada, Lieberthal, and Kendall, among others.

Conclusion

I think the conclusion is pretty evident. Mike Piazza struggles with would-be base stealers. I'm sure it doesn't help that several of the pitchers on his staff are horrible at holding runners on, but let's call a spade a spade. His arm is below average. Having said that, his ability to catch, as the position is aptly named, far supercedes his lacking in the throwing department. When you take into consideration his offense at the position ... the point becomes somewhat moot. In fact, the only reason people should want to stop Piazza from catching is to get him more at-bats during the course of a season. His defense has nothing to do with it.

Editor's Note: Now that Piazza is 35-years-old and he will be spending a good portion of time practicing at first base, one would expect his defensive numbers and skills to atrophy. This article was referring to his first 12 years in the bigs, as a catcher (pre-2004)

 

[Politician Spock]

With Henderson, Hamiliton and Hornsby batting in front of him, there is more than likely a guy on second every time he comes up.

Not a perfect fit there. A soft single will score the guy from second, plus ground balls to the right side advance him to third. Put a left handed contact hitter behind your basestealer. Singles by Jackson are usually linedrives, which incease the chances of the runner getting thrown out at home, and all his strikeouts don't advance the runner at all. Really the only good Jackson is in that situation is for an HR, or a deep fly ball. High strikeout power guys are best used behind high OBP guys who have no speed.

 

[oso diablo]

I would love to have a basic chart re: different eras and equalization. Like, the 30's were 20% more than the norm, the late 60's were 15% less than the norm... something like that.

A graphical view of baseball history

 

[Koya]

Where did Kraft go? He must be in Kraft Single #39 by now.

 

[UCONN]

I would love to have a basic chart re: different eras and equalization.  Like, the 30's were 20% more than the norm, the late 60's were 15% less than the norm... something like that.

A graphical view of baseball history

 

[Bogart]

With Henderson, Hamiliton and Hornsby batting in front of him, there is more than likely a guy on second every time he comes up.

Not a perfect fit there. A soft single will score the guy from second, plus ground balls to the right side advance him to third. Put a left handed contact hitter behind your basestealer. Singles by Jackson are usually linedrives, which incease the chances of the runner getting thrown out at home, and all his strikeouts don't advance the runner at all. Really the only good Jackson is in that situation is for an HR, or a deep fly ball. High strikeout power guys are best used behind high OBP guys who have no speed.

good points, but I still think by the time my lineup is done he will have his spot. Really could not pass up his power and run producing numbers at this point.

 

[Kraft...]

Sorry guys in a meeting, pick coming

With pick #4 in roud 6 the Curse Reversing Idiots select:

Al Kaline- OF

 

[shuke]

Sorry guys in a meeting, pick coming

DON'T FORGET ABOUT CEREAL.

 

[Politician Spock]

Really could not pass up his power and run producing numbers at this point.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Funkley]

6.05 - Joe Cronin - SS

:stillers:

 

[Koya]

Sorry guys in a meeting, pick coming

With pick #4 in roud 6 the Curse Reversing Idiots select:

Al Kaline- OF

GREAT pick. One of the most underated players in history... received something like 88% of his first ballot to make hte Hall. That is IMPRESSIVE. That number alnoe doesnt mean much (I know a couple guys that the writers just seem to be stupid on, one who is not even in the hall), but it shows how much respect Al had back in the day.Some considered his defense to be as good OR BETTER than Clemente - and he was at the top of the batting title race many years. I actually now believe he is a better player than Clemente was, even though before this draft I felt otherwise. A ton of GG's in the outfield.

 

[Bogart]

6.05 - Joe Cronin - SS

:stillers:

nicely played. Had him on my short list, but you probably already know that.

 

[Koya]

Well, it helped that three of my top four were gone: Palmer and then Dizzy, then Kaline. The good news, is my top choice is still there.

While there might have been other players that have more acclaim, my lineup is VERY close to being one of the more potent ones in the draft..which surprises me since I went pitching early. That said, I have guys that are more suited for the 4-6 slots in an all time legends draft as they dont "quite" have the contact you want from a 3rd slot hitter.

Plus, I am leaning a little to the right (hmmm... Spock?).

Out there, remains the PERFECT number three hitter... and perhaps the best Lefty bat left out there. Had this player not lost 4 prime years to WWII (ala many stars of the era) he would surely have over 400 HRs (close to 500 even), and might get the due he deserves. A top 5 1B ever (many think top three.. regardless he is RIGHT in the with ANYone not named Gehrig), and one of the perfect 3 slot hitters in the draft, period:

A guy that hit for 50 HRs in a season where he has LESS THAN 50 Strikeouts (wow!)... he was decent defensively as well, and a true winner liked by teamates and fans:

Johnny Mize. 1B

Stats write up to come.

 

[Funkley]

6.05 - Joe Cronin - SS

:stillers:

nicely played. Had him on my short list, but you probably already know that.

Didn't wanna wait on SS anymore after LB took Yount. Thought you'd be looking at Cronin.

 

[Funkley]

Johnny Mize. 1B

Stats write up to come.

Nice pick.EDIT- btw, so was Kaline.

 

[Koya]

Man, I had to sweat that out! Everyone except UCONN has a 1st baseman, so although Mize was the PERFECT fit in my lineup to create a great offensive core, I took A Rod because of the good chance Mize would make it back. Thank god he did.

3. Mize (L)

4. Schmidt®

5. Griffey (L)

6. A Rod ®

The best thing about this, is that Griffey, while in the 5 whole, will often lead off an inning. One guy gets on and then Schmidt strikes out for example. Then, Griff has the speed on the basepaths better than many leadoff guys, and the order almost has a whole new look. Griff leading off, gets a double, then up comes A Rod.

It is also possible that A Rod goes up to the #2 slot, depending upon my later picks. Ok, must go to a meeting, will do a full Mize stat write up when I return.

 

[Funkley]

Man, I had to sweat that out! Everyone except UCONN has a 1st baseman, so although Mize was the PERFECT fit in my lineup to create a great offensive core, I took A Rod because of the good chance Mize would make it back. Thank god he did.

3. Mize (L)

4. Schmidt®

5. Griffey (L)

6. A Rod ®

The best thing about this, is that Griffey, while in the 5 whole, will often lead off an inning. One guy gets on and then Schmidt strikes out for example. Then, Griff has the speed on the basepaths better than many leadoff guys, and the order almost has a whole new look. Griff leading off, gets a double, then up comes A Rod.

It is also possible that A Rod goes up to the #2 slot, depending upon my later picks. Ok, must go to a meeting, will do a full Mize stat write up when I return.

1st base would've been a good position to wait on in this draft but I just couldn't pass up Foxx. But passing on a guy like Mize cuz I have nowhere in my starting lineup made me .

 

[Bogart]

I really don't like the drop off at SS after this guy so:

6.07 - Cal Ripken Jr. - SS

2-Time MVP, 19-Time All-Star, 2 Time All-Star MVP, 3 Time Gold Glove.

Career numbers include 431 HRs, 1695 RBIs, 1647 Runs, 1078 Extra-Base Hits.

Defined the "big" shortstop, and will play everyday. Defense should be strong up the middle for my team.

 

[oso diablo]

A guy that hit for 50 HRs in a season where he has LESS THAN 50 Strikeouts (wow!)... he was decent defensively as well, and a true winner liked by teamates and fans:

Johnny Mize. 1B

my favorite lesser-known old-timer.

 

[Koya]

Man, I had to sweat that out! Everyone except UCONN has a 1st baseman, so although Mize was the PERFECT fit in my lineup to create a great offensive core, I took A Rod because of the good chance Mize would make it back. Thank god he did.

3. Mize (L)

4. Schmidt®

5. Griffey (L)

6. A Rod ®

The best thing about this, is that Griffey, while in the 5 whole, will often lead off an inning. One guy gets on and then Schmidt strikes out for example. Then, Griff has the speed on the basepaths better than many leadoff guys, and the order almost has a whole new look. Griff leading off, gets a double, then up comes A Rod.

It is also possible that A Rod goes up to the #2 slot, depending upon my later picks. Ok, must go to a meeting, will do a full Mize stat write up when I return.

1st base would've been a good position to wait on in this draft but I just couldn't pass up Foxx. But passing on a guy like Mize cuz I have nowhere in my starting lineup made me .

Ok, about to go now.. but you bring up a couple good points that I would not have thought of. I waited on 1B for a long time and was going to wait longer.. it is deep. But then I saw that what we have after Mize are some great D guys, and some good power guys.. but no one is an all around hitter that people put in the same category as Foxx, Greenberg etc. Really was an amazing bat, and a great player that doesnt get his due, today. Perhaps because those 4 years took too much off the final numbers. I think Mize is much closer to guys taken 3-4 rounds earlier than he is to any first baseman still to come - and I would put him as a much better hitter than Murray. More dominant, more influential in a lineup. And I grew up going to Memorial Stadium saying ed-die ed-die.

Looks like the SS run has begun? Wonder when the next 1B might go. Still some good ones out there but they have to fit according to team at this point, I think.

 

[Kraft...]

Delayed write-up

Jim Palmer

Three time Cy Young award winner(Eight times in top 5 Cy voting)

Three times in the top 10 in MVP voting

Four time Gold Glove recipiant(76-79)

.688 Career winning percentage(#38 on all time list)

#32 Career Wins(268)

#48 Career Strikeouts(2212)

#52 Career Adjusted ERA(125)

#16 Career Shutouts(53)

2.61 Career play-off ERA

Eight time 20 game winner

211 Complete Games in 521 career starts

Almost 4000 Career innings pitched

Threw No hitter 1967

Smart pitcher with multiple out pitches and excellent control. Proven big game winner who showed resiliency when he came back from arm issues and Won three Cy Young awards.

 

[Doug B]

6.08 2B Ryne Sandberg

.

 

[10993]

6.09 SS Luke Appling

Joe Cronin's contemporary and superior.

Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1964.

Luke Appling was a remarkably steady shortstop with an uncanny batting eye. He spent his entire 20-year career (1930 to 1950) with the White Sox and was twice voted the franchise's greatest player by the fans. His ability to foul off pitches became his trademark at the plate.

Luke Appling's ability to put the ball in play made him famous. Although he hit a home run off Warren Spahn in a 1982 old-timers game at age 75, he hit only 45 homers in his career. But he proved a superb contact hitter, once hitting 14 consecutive foul balls into the stands to get even with an owner who would not give him two extra game passes. Averill led the American League in batting twice, and his .388 average in 1936 remains the highest batting mark by a shortstop in history.

Appling batted better than .300 on 16 occasions, winning the batting title twice: in 1943 and in 1936. His .388 average in '36 was the highest AL mark since the offensive explosion of the 1920s. It remains the highest batting average for a shortstop in baseball history. He set career-highs in hits (204), runs (111), RBI (128), slugging (.508), and OBP (.474). he also enjoyed a career-best 27-game hitting streak.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Updated picksROUND ONE1.1 pumpnick -- SP Walter Johnson1.2 Spock -- SP Sandy Koufax1.3 lastresort -- OF Babe Ruth1.4 Capella -- OF Willie Mays1.5 Nipsey -- SP CY Young1.6 Sammy3469 --OF Ted Williams1.7 Pickles -- 1B Lou Gehrig1.8 Harrier -- OF Barry Bonds1.9 Doug B -- OF Stan Musial1.10 bogart -- 2B Rogers Hornsby1.11 Koya -- P Lefty Grove1.12 funkley -- OF Ty Cobb1.13 Kraft -- OF Hank Aaron1.14 UCONN -- OF Mickey Mantle1.15 Spartans -- SS Honus Wagner1.16 LarryBoy -- SP Christy Mathewson2.1 Larryboy -- SP Roger Clemens2.2 Spartans -- SP Pedro Martinez2.3 UCONN -- OF Tris Speaker2.4 Kraft -- OF Joltin' Joe DiMaggio2.5 funkley -- 1B Jimmy Foxx2.6 koya -- 3B Mike Schmidt2.7 Bogart -- OF Rickey Henderson2.8 Doug B -- SP Warren Spahn2.9 Harrier -- SP Grover Cleveland Alexander2.10 Pickles -- OF Frank Robinson2.11 Sammy -- 3B Eddie Matthews2.12 Nipsey -- 2B Joe Morgan2.13 Capella -- 2B/3B/1B/OF Pete Rose2.14 Last Resort - 2B Eddie Collins2.15 Spock - SP Nolan Ryan2.16 Pumpnick - 2B Nap Lajoie3.1 pumpnick -- SP Greg Maddux3.2 Spock -- SP Steve Carlton3.3 lastresort -- 1B Mark McGwire3.4 Capella -- SP Randy Johnson3.5 Nipsey -- OF Joe Jackson3.6 Sammy3469 -- SS/IB Ernie Banks3.7 Pickles -- OF/3B Mel Ott3.8 Harrier -- SP Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown3.9 Doug B -- 3B George Brett3.10 bogart -- OF Billy Hamilton3.11 Koya -- SP Tom Seaver3.12 funkley -- 3B Harmon Killebrew3.13 Kraft -- SP Bob Gibson3.14 UCONN -- 2B Jackie Robinson3.15 Spartans -- SP Hal Newhouser3.16 LarryBoy -- 1B Frank Thomas4.01 LarryBoy -- 2B Charlie Gehringer4.02 Spartans -- OF Carl Yastrzemski4.03 UCONN -- SS Arky Vaughan4.04 Kraft -- 1B George Sisler4.05 Funkley -- SP Juan Marichal4.06 Koya -- OF Ken Griffey Jr.4.07 Bogart -- C Mickey Cochrane4.08 Doug B -- OF Tim Raines4.09 Harrier -- C Mike Piazza4.10 Pickles -- C Yogi Berra4.11 Sammy -- 2B Rod Carew4.12 Nipsey -- 1B/OF Hank Greenberg4.13 Capella -- OF Roberto Clemente4.14 Lastresort -- 3B Wade Boggs4.15 Spock -- 2B Frankie Frisch4.16 Pumpnick -- OF Duke Snider5.1 pumpnick -- SP Carl Hubbell5.2 Spock -- OF Tony Gwynn5.3 lastresort -- OF Al Simmons 5.4 Capella -- C Johnny Bench5.5 Nipsey -- Bob Feller5.6 Sammy3469 -- OF Ed Delahanty5.7 Pickles -- SP Whitey Ford5.8 Harrier -- SP Ed Walsh5.9 Doug B -- 1B Eddie Murray5.10 bogart -- OF Reggie Jackson5.11 Koya -- SS Alex Rodriguez5.12 funkley - 2B Roberto Alomar5.13 Kraft -- SP Jim Palmer5.14 UCONN -- OF Ralph Kiner5.15 Spartans -- OF Harry Heilmann5.16 LarryBoy -- C Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez6.01 LarryBoy -- SS/OF Robin Yount6.02 Spartans -- P Dizzy Dean6.03 UCONN -- P Fergie Jenkins6.04 Kraft -- OF Al Kaline6.05 Funkley -- SS Joe Cronin6.06 Koya -- 1B Johnny Mize6.07 Bogart -- SS Cal Ripken, Jr.6.08 Doug B -- 2B Ryne Sandberg6.09 Harrier -- SS Luke Appling6.10 Pickles -- 2B Craig Biggio6.11 Sammy -- ON THE CLOCK6.12 Nipsey 6.13 Capella 6.14 Lastresort 6.15 Spock 6.16 Pumpnick

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I'm gonna go with Craig Biggio.

James loves this guy. I don't love him nearly as much as he does, but I do see him as being as good as Robbie Alomar. In fact their careers are nearly identical in every way. I think I would rate Robbie slightly higher due to the speed factor, but in every other capacity I see them being a dead heat. I like both guys better than Ryne Sandberg.

Not a sexy pick here, but if you look at the numbers, Biggio is one of the best 2B ever. In fact, James makes a very compelling argument that Biggio is better than Griffey Jr. over their careers. In fact, much better.

I was hoping Cal would slip to me here (amazing how far he fell), but such is life.

 

[larry_boy_44]

4 SS and 2 2B already in the 6th round...the middle infield run is ON!!!

 

[Spartans Rule]

Thanks for handling the lists Koya. Glad to see I got both my first choices.Harry Heilmann - definitely a guy I liked for my team philosophy and ballpark. High on the career lists in average, OBP, OPS/Adjusted OPS, and RBI. Won 4 batting titles. Great at getting on base. Lots of extra base hits which well serve him well at the Palace, and decent HR pop for his era. Really just a great all-around hitter. I haven't decided how I'll fit my lineup together but I will probably have him bat after Honus.Dizzy Dean - fits in with the rest of my pitchers in that he was dominant for a span of 6-7 years. Led the league in Ks 4 straight years, won the MVP in 1934, finished second in MVP voting twice. His best years came during a hitting boom when league ERA was up around 4. I like the strikeout pitchers in my park, since bad things can happen when the ball goes in to play in such a big field. Dean definitely fits that bill.Another great thing about Dizzy is that he's definitely a character, always good for a quote. My personal favorite:

Anybody who's ever had the privilege of seeing me play knows that I am the greatest pitcher in the world.

 

[Kraft...]

Al Kaline

Ten time Gold Glove winner

Nine times in top 10 MVP Voting(#2 twice)

#24 Career Hits

#22 Career Total Bases

#31 Career RBI's

#35 Career Runs

#39 Career Home Runs

.333 career playoff Average

From Here:

Kaline made playing right field into an art form. He won 10 Gold Gloves in 11 years (1957-59, 61-67). All comparisons to his glove work eventually fell short because he was so graceful and quick. Never a wasted motion, never a wrong decision. Kaline has said, "When I first came up to the Tigers I was scared stiff, but I had desire. Desire is something you must have to make it in the majors. I was never satisfied with just average." Though he was not spectacular, he was as close to perfect as a player could be. All of his baseball skills were impeccably honed: hitting for power and average, speed, throwing, and fielding judgment.

 

[Sammy3469]

I'm really torn with this pick, but in the end how do you turn down a 3-time MVP playing a position that is quickly drying up. All that really needs to be said is that when he was on, he was one of the best hitting catchers ever.

C Roy Campanella

I should add that he played in the Negro leagues for a number of years before breaking into the Dodgers organization in 1949. He also chipped a bone in his foot in the 1954 season that limited him for the rest of his career. No doubt modern medicine would have helped him immensely

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I realize in part it is due to laziness, but, that being said, I think slugging should be a little bit more important that OB%...give me a guy who gets on base .300 and has slugging of .600 over someone who is .400/.400 any day....of course, those are the extreme, the real questions come at .445/.485 vs .400/.550, then which is better? OPS tells us that the second is .2 better, and I would tend to agree, but it could be argued that the players are probably pretty even, but that is likely why the numbers are added together straight up...See, OPS is comparing both the OB% and the slugging % of multiple players against eachother at one time and givng some sort of quantifiable number to compare them, so multiplying one number is, in essence, using one number more than the other...has a player ever had a OB% higher than his slugging %???

I think you're missing the point here.SLG ranges from 0 to 4. OBP ranges from 0 to 1. Inherently there will be some bias toward the SLG number simply because it's capable of having a much higher value. Even if you get on base everytime, the best you can do in OBP is 1.000. If you hit a HR every AB, your SLG will be 4.000. Your OPS will then be 5.000, of which 80% of that value will be comprised of the SLG number. This is the extreme case, but some bias towards power still holds as the numbers drop. Barry is a perfect example of the bias at play. Of course his OBP number was a sick .609 in '04, so the effective weighting turned out to be similar to other sluggers, but no one was even close to him in either OBP or SLG. If anything, Barry should have been rewarded more for his OBP.OPS is a nice quick and dirty stat that gives a decent feel for how productive hitters are, but it's flawed because it's adding two stats that are not really related. However, it's sort of like if you added two physical quantities with different units. It doesn't really make a lot of sense, but there might be some correlation. I'm not saying it's useless by any stretch.. it's obviously not. I use it all the time to evaluate players. I just think it could be improved.

 

[UCONN]

I'm really torn with this pick, but in the end how do you turn down a 3-time MVP playing a position that is quickly drying up. All that really needs to be said is that when he was on, he was one of the best hitting catchers ever.

C Roy Campanella

Excellent pick. A guy I was hoping to roster.

 

[Funkley]

Had a choice between Cronin and Appling and I liked Cronin slightly more. Very close though.

 

[Koya]

Johnny "Big Cat" Mize - Write Up

An ideal #3 hitter who can hit anywhere 3-5 in the lineup... best for 3 or 4 slot, however. After your top tier players like Ted Williams, Mize is as good an ANYone in the batters box, especially considering he is a lefty bat. Hit for power and average, plus an OBP near .400.

In the field, was an above average defensive first baseman (if anyone knows more on his defense, good or bad, please chime in).

Stats (Keep in mind he lost three whole years (not four as I thought before) to the War. worse off, these were his absolute PRIME years, and he was very consistent until the war, and even the first couple of years after.

.312 Lifetime Average

.397 Lifetime OBP

.562 Lifetime Slugging

359 Lifetime HRs (almost everyone says would have 450+ w/o war)

9 STRAIGHT .300 plus years (probably would have been 12 if not for the war)

8 100 RBI seasons

RARELY Strikes out - only one season 50+ strikeouts

4 Time HR King

Batting Title

Runs Scored Title

4 Time top 5 MVP (2nd twice)

4 Time Slugging King

3 Tmie Total Bases Crown

3 Time RBI Crown

Top 20 ALL TIME Adj. OPS AND Slugging %

Since his numbers were hurt a bit by the war, consider this ELITE company:

How many players have:

CAREER HOMERUNS >= 300 / STRIKEOUTS <= 600 / AVERAGE >= .300

RC/GAME HR SO AVG

1 Joe DiMaggio 9.11 361 369 .325

2 Johnny Mize 8.98 359 524 .312

3 HOF Player not yet picked who played in hitters park 8.10 300 521 .320

Nice short list!

How about this:

3 seasons with over 40 HRs and less than 50 Strikeouts. Only ONE other player can say that. And his name is not Bonds, Ruth or Williams.

Next? :

SEASONS WITH: HOMERUNS >= 25 / RBI >= 100 /AVERAGE >= .300 /WALKS >= 60 / STRIKEOUTS <= 60

1 Stan Musial 9

T2 Ted Williams 7

T2 Lou Gehrig 7

T2 Mel Ott 7

T5 Johnny Mize 5

T5 Joe DiMaggio 5

A few others have done it a couple times, but only these 6 have done it 5 or more times. Three of these guys lost years ot the war, also.

All in all, one of the overlooked elite players of the game. On par with the Foxx's of the world and second only to Gehrig, w/o arguement in baseball circles.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I'm really torn with this pick, but in the end how do you turn down a 3-time MVP playing a position that is quickly drying up. All that really needs to be said is that when he was on, he was one of the best hitting catchers ever.

C Roy Campanella

Excellent pick. A guy I was hoping to roster.

:rotflmao: I guess that's one way to put it...

 

[Koya]

6.08 2B Ryne Sandberg

.

He was second on my list - his defense was simply unreal. I was hoping Ryne would slip through these cracks, as he seems to always have slipped in the minds of many, when he really should not.I think he might be a better player than Joe Morgan. Higher average, had power, better glove. And many rounds later.

Only problems for my team and Ryne were that he did not have a really good OBP so would not fit the #1/2 slot that well, and he was also another RH bat, when I needed a lefty. Take into account my opinion on how good Mize was (not his fault he had less than 8000 at bats, damn war) and I for my team, Ryne had to wait.

A good example of when someone who may or may not have been a better player simply was not as good an option during the draft because of the makeup of a team/lineup.

 

[Sammy3469]

Johnny "Big Cat" Mize - Write Up

An ideal #3 hitter who can hit anywhere 3-5 in the lineup... best for 3 or 4 slot, however. After your top tier players like Ted Williams, Mize is as good an ANYone in the batters box, especially considering he is a lefty bat. Hit for power and average, plus an OBP near .400.

In the field, was an above average defensive first baseman (if anyone knows more on his defense, good or bad, please chime in).

Stats (Keep in mind he lost three whole years (not four as I thought before) to the War. worse off, these were his absolute PRIME years, and he was very consistent until the war, and even the first couple of years after.

.312 Lifetime Average

.397 Lifetime OBP

.562 Lifetime Slugging

359 Lifetime HRs (almost everyone says would have 450+ w/o war)

9 STRAIGHT .300 plus years (probably would have been 12 if not for the war)

8 100 RBI seasons

RARELY Strikes out - only one season 50+ strikeouts

4 Time HR King

Batting Title

Runs Scored Title

4 Time top 5 MVP (2nd twice)

4 Time Slugging King

3 Tmie Total Bases Crown

3 Time RBI Crown

Top 20 ALL TIME Adj. OPS AND Slugging %

Since his numbers were hurt a bit by the war, consider this ELITE company:

How many players have:

CAREER HOMERUNS >= 300 / STRIKEOUTS <= 600 / AVERAGE >= .300

RC/GAME HR SO AVG

1 Joe DiMaggio 9.11 361 369 .325

2 Johnny Mize 8.98 359 524 .312

3 HOF Player not yet picked who played in hitters park 8.10 300 521 .320

Nice short list!

How about this:

3 seasons with over 40 HRs and less than 50 Strikeouts. Only ONE other player can say that. And his name is not Bonds, Ruth or Williams.

Next? :

SEASONS WITH: HOMERUNS >= 25 / RBI >= 100 /AVERAGE >= .300 /WALKS >= 60 / STRIKEOUTS <= 60

1 Stan Musial 9

T2 Ted Williams 7

T2 Lou Gehrig 7

T2 Mel Ott 7

T5 Johnny Mize 5

T5 Joe DiMaggio 5

A few others have done it a couple times, but only these 6 have done it 5 or more times. Three of these guys lost years ot the war, also.

All in all, one of the overlooked elite players of the game. On par with the Foxx's of the world and second only to Gehrig, w/o arguement in baseball circles.

Mize is one of the few picks of yours I agree with . He was the one guy I was hoping would slip to me this round

 

[10993]

Had a choice between Cronin and Appling and I liked Cronin slightly more. Very close though.

Yeah I was happy to settle on either one, assuming one would get picked--really the last two second-tier SS left. (With Honus and Arky being the first tier)