Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Agreed.
Plus they have the nickname factor. Who doesn't love the Cobra and the Hawk???
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***OFFICIAL*** FFA MLB Draft (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
Plus they have the nickname factor. Who doesn't love the Cobra and the Hawk???
Kraft...
Footballguy
I didn't post the other numbers because I didn't want to type them all out, well here they are(Average number from 1990-1999). Thomas BondsG 137.1 143.4AB 489.2 489.4R 96.8 109.1H 156.4 147.82B 31.7 29.93B 1 4.2HR 30.1 36.1RBI 104 107.6SB 2.8 34.3CS 1.8 9.4BB 107.6 114.6SO 74.1 74.7BA 0.3215 0.301OBP 0.4423 0.4321SLG 0.5748 0.603TB 280.4 294.4SH 0 0.1SF 8.2 6IBB 13.3 25.7HBP 4.1 4.5GDP 15.1 9.6SLG 0.5748 0.603OPS 1.0173 1.0352OPS+ 171.1 178.7 Thomas was not a better hitter than Bonds "Before 2000" it's as simple as that. You are WRONG.there's a reason he dind't post the margin that Bonds had over Thomas, because Bonds had like a VERY small amount of homeruns (under 2 a year) more than Thomas, whereas Thomas had .021 better batting average than Bonds over the decade...8 more hits....010 OB%Bonds was a better all-around player (hence more runs, 'cuz of his baserunning)... Thomas had 2 MVPs and he was barely there on defense and wasn't exactly a great baserunner....Yes, Bonds had 3... But Bonds was a great all-around player...Before 2000, Thomas is arguably (easily) the better batter, even though Bonds was always the better player...
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
I didn't post the other numbers because I didn't want to type them all out, well here they are(Average number from 1990-1999). Thomas BondsG 137.1 143.4AB 489.2 489.4R 96.8 109.1H 156.4 147.82B 31.7 29.93B 1 4.2HR 30.1 36.1RBI 104 107.6SB 2.8 34.3CS 1.8 9.4BB 107.6 114.6SO 74.1 74.7BA 0.3215 0.301OBP 0.4423 0.4321SLG 0.5748 0.603TB 280.4 294.4SH 0 0.1SF 8.2 6IBB 13.3 25.7HBP 4.1 4.5GDP 15.1 9.6SLG 0.5748 0.603OPS 1.0173 1.0352OPS+ 171.1 178.7 Thomas was not a better hitter than Bonds "Before 2000" it's as simple as that. You are WRONG.there's a reason he dind't post the margin that Bonds had over Thomas, because Bonds had like a VERY small amount of homeruns (under 2 a year) more than Thomas, whereas Thomas had .021 better batting average than Bonds over the decade...8 more hits....010 OB%Bonds was a better all-around player (hence more runs, 'cuz of his baserunning)... Thomas had 2 MVPs and he was barely there on defense and wasn't exactly a great baserunner....Yes, Bonds had 3... But Bonds was a great all-around player...Before 2000, Thomas is arguably (easily) the better batter, even though Bonds was always the better player...
Koya
Footballguy
The D rankings on the sim from what I see are not exactly great. Mize a better fielder than Richie Ashburn?Um.... no.Well in the sim, I likely won't. But for the FFA voters, it should help.Why would you need to pull a great defensive catcher, in Piazza?
This actually raises a question - for those of us drafting according to our rules and not checking the sim (afterthought), what happens when I have a 1B eligible Schmidt who is not eligible to play first in the sim? Or Arod and 3B. These played a role in my drafting, as I do not need as many utility players since I have stars that can play more than one position, if needed.
However, if the sim wont let me put ARod at third, or Schmidt at first (late innings, double switch lets say), then what happens? Again, if because we are locked into one particular sim I am screwed, so be it, I dont want a twelve page arguement, but am curious if there is a fair way to deal with these types of situations.
tia
Bogart
Footballguy
19.10 - Joe Wood - RP
Great pitcher whose career was cut short, therefore he never got the "career numbers" of the greats.
2.04 ERA (4th All-Time)
1.085 WHIP (10th All-Time)
0.79 Hits Allowed per Inning (12th All-Time)
146 Adjusted ERA (3rd All-Time) Tied with bullpen mate Quisenberry
0.671 Win% (11th All-Time)
Again, building my staff on low ERA/low WHIP this guy is a perfect fit for the bullpen.
Great pitcher whose career was cut short, therefore he never got the "career numbers" of the greats.
2.04 ERA (4th All-Time)
1.085 WHIP (10th All-Time)
0.79 Hits Allowed per Inning (12th All-Time)
146 Adjusted ERA (3rd All-Time) Tied with bullpen mate Quisenberry
0.671 Win% (11th All-Time)
Again, building my staff on low ERA/low WHIP this guy is a perfect fit for the bullpen.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
You can they just won't do so great. I personally think that's fair.The D rankings on the sim from what I see are not exactly great. Mize a better fielder than Richie Ashburn?Um.... no.Well in the sim, I likely won't. But for the FFA voters, it should help.Why would you need to pull a great defensive catcher, in Piazza?
This actually raises a question - for those of us drafting according to our rules and not checking the sim (afterthought), what happens when I have a 1B eligible Schmidt who is not eligible to play first in the sim? Or Arod and 3B. These played a role in my drafting, as I do not need as many utility players since I have stars that can play more than one position, if needed.
However, if the sim wont let me put ARod at third, or Schmidt at first (late innings, double switch lets say), then what happens? Again, if because we are locked into one particular sim I am screwed, so be it, I dont want a twelve page arguement, but am curious if there is a fair way to deal with these types of situations.
tia
You can just play them at whatever positions you want. Their defense will probably suffer but so be it.What I don't understand is your approach. Can you not play Schmidt at 3B? Unless there is a real problem, why bring it up except that you just love to cause the argument and keep banging your drum for the 4th year and wrose thing?The D rankings on the sim from what I see are not exactly great. Mize a better fielder than Richie Ashburn?Um.... no.Well in the sim, I likely won't. But for the FFA voters, it should help.Why would you need to pull a great defensive catcher, in Piazza?
This actually raises a question - for those of us drafting according to our rules and not checking the sim (afterthought), what happens when I have a 1B eligible Schmidt who is not eligible to play first in the sim? Or Arod and 3B. These played a role in my drafting, as I do not need as many utility players since I have stars that can play more than one position, if needed.
However, if the sim wont let me put ARod at third, or Schmidt at first (late innings, double switch lets say), then what happens? Again, if because we are locked into one particular sim I am screwed, so be it, I dont want a twelve page arguement, but am curious if there is a fair way to deal with these types of situations.
tia
To be fair, I've looked through their ratings, and every single one is based directly on fielding percentage. Sometimes our memories of guys' athleticism as fielders is not an accurate measure of their consistency. If Mize's was better, his rating should be better. It's your memory that's wrong. The statistics aren't wrong. And all the ratings are is a direct correlation to the statistics.
Doug B
Footballguy
LATEST THREE ROUNDS:
17 257 pumpnick SP Johnny Antonelli
17 258 Spock 3B Edgar Martinez
17 259 lastresort SP Red Ruffing
17 260 Capella 2B Jeff Kent
17 261 Nipsey SP Jimmy Key
17 262 Sammy3469 SP Eppa Rixey
17 263 Pickles SP Jerry Koosman
17 264 Harrier OF Jake Stenzel
17 265 Doug B SS Joe Sewell
17 266 bogart 3B Graig Nettles
17 267 Koya SP Mike Cuellar
17 268 funkley SP Ed Ciccote
17 269 Kraft OF Tony Oliva
17 270 UCONN 3B Robin Ventura
17 271 Spartans RP Dave Righetti
17 272 Larryboy SP Satchel Paige
18 273 Larryboy SP Tim Wakefield
18 274 Spartans 2B Bobby Grich
18 275 UCONN 1B Zeke Bonura
18 276 Kraft 2B Johnny Pesky
18 277 funkley 3B Ken Boyer
18 278 Koya SS Lou Boudreau
18 279 bogart 3B Bill Dahlen
18 280 Doug B OF Frank Howard
18 281 Harrier SP Slim Sallee
18 282 Pickles 1B Will Clark
18 283 Sammy3469 3B Bob Elliot
18 284 Nipsey SP Dave Stieb
18 285 Capella SP Dave McNally
18 286 lastresort C Javy Lopez
18 287 Spock RP Terry Forster
18 288 pumpnick OF Edd Roush
19 289 pumpnick OF Chick Hafey
19 290 Spock 2B Joe Gordon
19 291 lastresort RP Mike Marshall
19 292 Capella OF Dom DiMaggio
19 293 Nipsey OF Andre Dawson
19 294 Sammy3469 SP Billy Pierce
19 295 Pickles OF Dave Parker
19 296 Harrier C Mike Scioscia
19 297 Doug B 1B Ted Kluszewski
19 298 bogart RP Joe Wood
19 299 Koya on the clock
19 300 funkley on deck
19 301 Kraft in the hole
19 302 UCONN
19 303 Spartans
19 304 Larryboy
17 257 pumpnick SP Johnny Antonelli
17 258 Spock 3B Edgar Martinez
17 259 lastresort SP Red Ruffing
17 260 Capella 2B Jeff Kent
17 261 Nipsey SP Jimmy Key
17 262 Sammy3469 SP Eppa Rixey
17 263 Pickles SP Jerry Koosman
17 264 Harrier OF Jake Stenzel
17 265 Doug B SS Joe Sewell
17 266 bogart 3B Graig Nettles
17 267 Koya SP Mike Cuellar
17 268 funkley SP Ed Ciccote
17 269 Kraft OF Tony Oliva
17 270 UCONN 3B Robin Ventura
17 271 Spartans RP Dave Righetti
17 272 Larryboy SP Satchel Paige
18 273 Larryboy SP Tim Wakefield
18 274 Spartans 2B Bobby Grich
18 275 UCONN 1B Zeke Bonura
18 276 Kraft 2B Johnny Pesky
18 277 funkley 3B Ken Boyer
18 278 Koya SS Lou Boudreau
18 279 bogart 3B Bill Dahlen
18 280 Doug B OF Frank Howard
18 281 Harrier SP Slim Sallee
18 282 Pickles 1B Will Clark
18 283 Sammy3469 3B Bob Elliot
18 284 Nipsey SP Dave Stieb
18 285 Capella SP Dave McNally
18 286 lastresort C Javy Lopez
18 287 Spock RP Terry Forster
18 288 pumpnick OF Edd Roush
19 289 pumpnick OF Chick Hafey
19 290 Spock 2B Joe Gordon
19 291 lastresort RP Mike Marshall
19 292 Capella OF Dom DiMaggio
19 293 Nipsey OF Andre Dawson
19 294 Sammy3469 SP Billy Pierce
19 295 Pickles OF Dave Parker
19 296 Harrier C Mike Scioscia
19 297 Doug B 1B Ted Kluszewski
19 298 bogart RP Joe Wood
19 299 Koya on the clock
19 300 funkley on deck
19 301 Kraft in the hole
19 302 UCONN
19 303 Spartans
19 304 Larryboy
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Koya
Footballguy
Statistics do not tell you if you are able to make 10 plays no one else could make, but because of that additional range, extra jump, etc, you may have a few more errors. More errors does not by itself mean worse defense. Like any stat, on its own, in a vacuum, it is worth very little.If you want to believe that Mize was a better defensive 1B than Richie Ashburn was an OF, you are entitled to your opinion. It isnt my memory that is wrong - but the memory of COUNTLESS baseball experts.Numbers can and do lie. They are only pieces of the puzzle.
Koya
Footballguy
Ok, I will do a write up later. This will be my first non HoF position player, but for what he does, he is as good as just about anyone.
I have offense and defense, I have two pinch hitters with .320+ averages and power, and have great flexibility for late game switches with Arod able to play third and Schmidt First.
What I could use is someone who has lightning speed and great defense.. perfect to run for my catcher, or for Mize, when I have a man on second, down one, late innings.
For my pinch runner/late game speed and defense pick:
Kenny Lofton. OF
That gives me 10 steal titles in my lineup and adds some defense and speed to create some havoc on the base paths. Might have Lofton start in very large stadiums, as a leadoff hitter.
I have offense and defense, I have two pinch hitters with .320+ averages and power, and have great flexibility for late game switches with Arod able to play third and Schmidt First.
What I could use is someone who has lightning speed and great defense.. perfect to run for my catcher, or for Mize, when I have a man on second, down one, late innings.
For my pinch runner/late game speed and defense pick:
Kenny Lofton. OF
That gives me 10 steal titles in my lineup and adds some defense and speed to create some havoc on the base paths. Might have Lofton start in very large stadiums, as a leadoff hitter.
I don't know about Mize and Ashburn. What I do know is that countless EXPERTS like to point to the invalidity of statistics in order to prop up better-known players and better offensive players, though offensive ability rarely correlates with defense, and very often the better defensive players in the league are relatively unknown. Riche didn't have a 10 ft. greater range than Mzie, and if he had to dive across the park for a ball, I doubt he was charged for an error. Errors are generally charged only on plays that one *should* have made.When you look at who gets the Gold Gloves every year, it's very difficult to make the argument that popular opinion is a good measure of defensive ability. Moreover, I will take defensive consistency (and a higher fielding percentage) over one or two spectacular plays and less consistency every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Funkley
Collar: Up
Wilbur Wood - SP
164 career wins.
Won at least 20 games a year from 1971-74.
3 time All star.
Top 10 MVP twice.
Top 10 CY three times.
Lefthander.
164 career wins.
Won at least 20 games a year from 1971-74.
3 time All star.
Top 10 MVP twice.
Top 10 CY three times.
Lefthander.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
When teams are down 4-5 runs in the late innings they usually don't risk stealing bases. Replacing Piazza in such a situation flies in the face of your previous argument that other than his weak arm Piazza's defense is great.
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
oso is busy until 3:00 or so. That's what he posted in our draft thread.
oso diablo
Footballguy
checking in right before heading to a lunch mtg. i will PM a pick or two to one of you.
Kraft...
Footballguy
With pick #13 in round 19 the Curse Reversing Idiots select. . .
Vic Willis - RHP
Forgot to mention - Hall Of Famer
#19 Career Shoutouts(50)
#19 Career Complete Games(388)
#39 Career innings pitched
#58 Career ERA
Eight 20+ win seasons
Ten seasons ERA < 3
Can use him in long relief and spot start him if necessary.
Vic Willis - RHP
Forgot to mention - Hall Of Famer
#19 Career Shoutouts(50)
#19 Career Complete Games(388)
#39 Career innings pitched
#58 Career ERA
Eight 20+ win seasons
Ten seasons ERA < 3
Can use him in long relief and spot start him if necessary.
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oso diablo
Footballguy
With proxy from UCONN, i select...
19.14 Roger Bresnahan - C
Fortunate to get a HOF catcher this late. Redefined the position. Glowing write-up to come later tonight.
edit to correct mis-spell of name.
19.14 Roger Bresnahan - C
Fortunate to get a HOF catcher this late. Redefined the position. Glowing write-up to come later tonight.
edit to correct mis-spell of name.
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Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
Quick OOTP update:
While entering the rosters that I DO HAVE (Ahem, slackers...) I noticed that OOTP doesn't apply ratings to the really old guys very well when using the Lahman db. Guys that played in the Dead Ball Era get screwed for power ratings.
So, I found a better alternative. There's this guy named Ankit that created several variations of the Lahman db and one of them is a Normalize version of it. Basically, he took the Lahman db and normalized the stats for the historical players to match up with today's game.
I took a look at a few of them and they look pretty good. For example, in 1901 Sam Crawford had 16 HR. That was a ton for that era (props to Koya). Ankit's normalized db has Crawford with 49 HR for that year. Seems pretty good to me.
Two caveats:
1) It only goes to the 2002 season. This isn't that big of a deal since we can use Lahman for 2003 or 2004 since they won't need to be normalized.
2) He's apparently working on a newer version with a different methodology for calculating the normalized stats.
I'm going to email him and see if I can get an update on the new version.
While entering the rosters that I DO HAVE (Ahem, slackers...) I noticed that OOTP doesn't apply ratings to the really old guys very well when using the Lahman db. Guys that played in the Dead Ball Era get screwed for power ratings.
So, I found a better alternative. There's this guy named Ankit that created several variations of the Lahman db and one of them is a Normalize version of it. Basically, he took the Lahman db and normalized the stats for the historical players to match up with today's game.
I took a look at a few of them and they look pretty good. For example, in 1901 Sam Crawford had 16 HR. That was a ton for that era (props to Koya). Ankit's normalized db has Crawford with 49 HR for that year. Seems pretty good to me.
Two caveats:
1) It only goes to the 2002 season. This isn't that big of a deal since we can use Lahman for 2003 or 2004 since they won't need to be normalized.
2) He's apparently working on a newer version with a different methodology for calculating the normalized stats.
I'm going to email him and see if I can get an update on the new version.
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Sounds awesome; makes a lot of good sense.Quick OOTP update:
While entering the rosters that I DO HAVE (Ahem, slackers...) I noticed that OOTP doesn't apply ratings to the really old guys very well when using the Lahman db. Guys that played in the Dead Ball Era get screwed for power ratings.
So, I found a better alternative. There's this guy named Ankit that created several variations of the Lahman db and one of them is a Normalize version of it. Basically, he took the Lahman db and normalized the stats for the historical players to match up with today's game.
I took a look at a few of them and they look pretty good. For example, in 1901 Sam Crawford had 16 HR. That was a ton for that era (props to Koya). Ankit's normalized db has Crawford with 49 HR for that year. Seems pretty good to me.
Two caveats:
1) It only goes to the 2002 season. This isn't that big of a deal since we can use Lahman for 2003 or 2004 since they won't need to be normalized.
2) He's apparently working on a newer version with a different methodology for calculating the normalized stats.
I'm going to email him and see if I can get an update on the new version.
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
Agreed.Also, I forgot to mention that current pitchers don't rate as well as they should either for the same reason.Sounds awesome; makes a lot of good sense.Quick OOTP update:
While entering the rosters that I DO HAVE (Ahem, slackers...) I noticed that OOTP doesn't apply ratings to the really old guys very well when using the Lahman db. Guys that played in the Dead Ball Era get screwed for power ratings.
So, I found a better alternative. There's this guy named Ankit that created several variations of the Lahman db and one of them is a Normalize version of it. Basically, he took the Lahman db and normalized the stats for the historical players to match up with today's game.
I took a look at a few of them and they look pretty good. For example, in 1901 Sam Crawford had 16 HR. That was a ton for that era (props to Koya). Ankit's normalized db has Crawford with 49 HR for that year. Seems pretty good to me.
Two caveats:
1) It only goes to the 2002 season. This isn't that big of a deal since we can use Lahman for 2003 or 2004 since they won't need to be normalized.
2) He's apparently working on a newer version with a different methodology for calculating the normalized stats.
I'm going to email him and see if I can get an update on the new version.
