*****OFFICIAL FORMULA ONE GRAND PRIX THREAD***** (4 Viewers)

[Sinn Fein]

I would also add, for any newcomers, the racing is not "great" in F1.  There are moments, but its not a lot of lead changes on the track.

I love the engineering aspect of F1 - teams having to balance everything to line up the engine, the aerodynamics, the tires, etc.  I also enjoy watching qualification on Saturdays, where many races are won or lost.  And the opening lap of any race is always exciting as the cars race to that first corner.

(Singapore 2017 - this was the race that re-ignited my interest in F1.  Ferrari and Vettel had momentum in the season championship, Hamilton and Mercedes were fading and had not qualified well for this race.  This race was on early in the morning East-Coast time, and I was switching around while waiting for a soccer game to start, I just happened to catch the start almost by fluke - and I have not missed many race weekends since.)

To F1's credit, they are trying to make things more competitive on the track, and a confluence of things might make this year the most competitive in recent times.

Teams were limited this off-season in how much they could change from last year's cars.  F1 is an expensive sport - and teams like Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari have a distinct financial advantage over the other teams.  But, with limited changes allowed that should narrow the gap.

Also, last year F1 made a mid-season change that will limit some of Mercedes' effectiveness on race weekends - teams are now only permitted to run one engine mode from Qualifying through the race.  It might seem minor, but Mercedes had such a finely tuned/reliable engine that they could dial up the power for a qualifying lap, but then put the engine into a proverbial cruise control for long stretches of the race - giving them the best of both worlds - powerful short-term, reliable long-term.  So, this effectively will cut back on Mercedes advantage in qualifying (as engines can't run an entire race in that mode).

This year F1 will also try a new qualifying format in three races - they will hold shorter sprint races to set the grid.  They had toyed with a reverse grid set-up, but ultimately the big teams balked at that as unsporting.

Red Bull aside, I think F1 really needs Ferrari to become a factor in the championship.  They have such a large and passionate world-wide following that F1 wants/needs that fan base fully engaged (and spending money).

 

[Eephus]

(and Eephus would tell you the racing is better in F2.).

Speaking of Formula 2, the FIA has changed the race weekend format to two sprint races on Saturday and a feature race with a mandatory pit stop on Sundays.

The field will be the usual mixture of up an coming drivers and rich kid wankers. There are probably 8-10 legitimate contenders for race wins. There's also Alessio Deledda who has been hopelessly slow in every other series he's competed in and is best known for sharing videos of himself driving recklessly on public roads.

American Logan Sargeant, who finished third in F3 last year, has fallen off the international open-wheel ladder after his father pleaded guilty to bribery charges involving three Latin American countries.

 

[Eephus]

Aston Martin - meh.  Lawrence Stroll seems like the perfect villain for F1.

Alpha Tauri - Red Bull Jr.

Alfa Romeo - someone has to round out the field.

Again you give short shrift to Aston and AT. They were both race winning teams in 2020 which is more than you can say about McLaren, Alpine or Ferrari.

At Aston, I'm very interested to see if Vettel can re-find the form that made him a 4x champion. He should be able to outpace Little Stroll but can he cut down on the mistakes that plagued him at Ferrari. Aston Martin has been a team on the rise but the next step up is a huge one.

I've always had a soft spot for Alpha Tauri due to their Minardi heritage. I like Gasly and am excited to see how rookie Yuki Tsunoda fares. He made huge strides during last year's F2 season. He was always quick but quickly mastered tire management which is such a big part of F1.

Alfa is reportedly pulling out after this year so the team may be back to Sauber next year. The shadow of the new 2022 formula looms large over this year. Any development of the current year's cars is a throwaway so teams will try to maximize their resources for the new specs.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Again you give short shrift to Aston and AT. They were both race winning teams in 2020 which is more than you can say about McLaren, Alpine or Ferrari.

We will see.  I just think Aston Martin will not duplicate their success last year.   The victory came from Perez - who is now at Red Bull.  Between Vettel and Stroll, they scored in a combined 17 races (out of a possible 34), and had 108 points - on par with Alpha Tauri for 7th place in the constructors championship.

And speaking of Alpha Tauri - they finished with slightly more than half the points of 3rd place McLaren.  That is a big gap.

I don't think either are in the same rung as Haas or Williams, but I don't really see either as a threat for third either.

 

[Eephus]

We will see.  I just think Aston Martin will not duplicate their success last year.   The victory came from Perez - who is now at Red Bull.  Between Vettel and Stroll, they scored in a combined 17 races (out of a possible 34), and had 108 points - on par with Alpha Tauri for 7th place in the constructors championship.

And speaking of Alpha Tauri - they finished with slightly more than half the points of 3rd place McLaren.  That is a big gap.

I don't think either are in the same rung as Haas or Williams, but I don't really see either as a threat for third either.

Racing Point would have been third in the Constructors championship without the 15 point deduction. Until proven otherwise, they're in the mix for podiums and first in the midfield. As you know, I rate Vettel higher than Perez but this season will be telling for both. Checo is experienced which should help him in the Red Bull pressure cooker.

I'm more hopeful than confident about Alpha Tauri but they were impressive in testing.

 

[massraider]

 I also enjoy watching qualification on Saturdays, where many races are won or lost.  

Where does one watch this?  Not on ESPN, right?

 

[Eephus]

Where does one watch this?  Not on ESPN, right?

Races and quallies are usually on ESPN2.  Practice sessions (and Formula 2 ) are online only,

ESPN runs the feed commercial-free from Sky UK.

 

[massraider]

Races and quallies are usually on ESPN2.  Practice sessions (and Formula 2 ) are online only,

ESPN runs the feed commercial-free from Sky UK.

Yeah, I guess my TV schedule only goes a week out, because when I searched after first discovering the show, I found nothing.

Looks like the 2nd practice day is on ESPN2, and the others are on ESPNU.  

 

[Eephus]

It's an evening race in Bahrain so the 8AM start time on the West Coast is later than the European races.

ETA:  It looks like the second F2 Saturday sprint race is scheduled following F1 qualifying.

 

[massraider]

I would also add, for any newcomers, the racing is not "great" in F1.  There are moments, but its not a lot of lead changes on the track.

The biggest effect the show had on me is caring about people not at #1.  

I'm such an American that way, if you didn't finish #1, you're a loser.  Dumb way to look at it, but now, if one of the rookies for Haas finishes top 5, I'll be suitably impressed.  

Seeing what it means to 'lesser' teams finish in the points will make the race outside the top 3 interesting to me.  

 

[Eephus]

if one of the rookies for Haas finishes top 5, I'll be suitably impressed.  

I'll be flabbergasted

 

[Guinis72]

Nikita Mazepin (Haas) seems like a horrible human.  I saw the video HE posted on his IG account a few months ago, where he was groping some drunk lady in the back seat of the car (now deleted and apologized for) and he's also tweeted  “I have a secret about you mate that people might call a coming out.” to George Russell.  I saw his last race in F2 where he basically crossed the track to prevent being passed and forced the other driver off the road.  I know there were a couple F1 drivers that didn't seem too happy that he'd be there in 2021.  Maybe I'm wrong, and only read the negative stuff about him, but this guy seems like he's going to be a huge villain in the sport.

The things that I enjoyed, but was somewhat surprised by, in Drive to Survive was the animosity that Bottas & Sainz were carrying last year.  I thought that was really interesting, but I respect it, it's all rooted in a desire to win.  I felt a little bad watching Carlos & Lando, you could tell there was a little emotional distancing since the previous season.  I think Ricciardo is the perfect replacement for Lando's teammate though.

 

[massraider]

I don't really see how the son of a Russian billionaire who bought him a seat can be much of a villain.  Think you're reaching here.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I'll be flabbergasted

My initial reaction was "Story of the year!"

 

[Eephus]

The things that I enjoyed, but was somewhat surprised by, in Drive to Survive was the animosity that Bottas & Sainz were carrying last year.  I thought that was really interesting, but I respect it, it's all rooted in a desire to win.  I felt a little bad watching Carlos & Lando, you could tell there was a little emotional distancing since the previous season.  I think Ricciardo is the perfect replacement for Lando's teammate though.

Some of that is editing to pump up the story lines. 

 

[E Street Brat]

I would also add, for any newcomers, the racing is not "great" in F1.  There are moments, but its not a lot of lead changes on the track.

F1 - teams haI love the engineering aspect of ving to balance everything to line up the engine, the aerodynamics, the tires, etc.  I also enjoy watching qualification on Saturdays, where many races are won or lost.  And the opening lap of any race is always exciting as the cars race to that first corner.

This is my thing also, but the teams are so secretive that its hard to display or have any TV segments that highlight this aspect of the sport.  I'm thinking of the NASCAR cutaway car where the network can show the parts and pieces and how adjustments work and effect the the car. 

I guess most "non-spec" racing is like this. I know IMSA is guilty of it as well. 

 

[Eephus]

This is my thing also, but the teams are so secretive that its hard to display or have any TV segments that highlight this aspect of the sport.  I'm thinking of the NASCAR cutaway car where the network can show the parts and pieces and how adjustments work and effect the the car. 

I guess most "non-spec" racing is like this. I know IMSA is guilty of it as well.

Ex-Jordan designer Gary Anderson writes a column for The Race (https://the-race.com/) that gets very technical at times, especially around aero.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Caught a little of the first practice session this morning.  2nd Session starting shortly - and will be a better indicator of qualification and race pace - its at the same time of day as both.

Red Bull still look strong.

McLaren look strong - lots of talk of their diffuser and whether teams might try to copy by the 2nd race.

Mercedes not far off the pace, but they still seem to be tinkering.  Had it on in the background, but one of the commentators was talking about how Mercedes might be changing the "rake" - which is not a subtle shift.

(The "rake" is essentially how high the back end of the car is relative to the front.  Red Bull runs a very high rake, Mercedes have historically run a very low rake, with the other teams in between, but typically closer to Red Bull's set up.  That angle is what helps the cars create downforce from the airflow underneath the car.)

Other than that - looks like it should be a good fight in qualification, with Williams and Haas both looking pretty far off the pace.

 

[QuizGuy66]

 

-QG

 

[Eephus]

(The "rake" is essentially how high the back end of the car is relative to the front.  Red Bull runs a very high rake, Mercedes have historically run a very low rake, with the other teams in between, but typically closer to Red Bull's set up.  That angle is what helps the cars create downforce from the airflow underneath the car.)

I'm not a fan of high rake angles. Combined with the extreme length of modern F1 cars, you end up with something like the Munster Koach

 

[Sinn Fein]

My Qualification predictions:

But, other than that: 

• whichever driver joins Williams and Haas in not getting out of Q3 will feel like they  had a bad weekend already.
  
• a "good" driver, or two, will not get out of Q2
  
• no front row lockout for any team
  
• Q1 should be very competitive 
  

Oh, and side note - one thing I did learn from yesterday's practice sessions - Alpine is pronounced "Al-peen" and not "Al-pine"

 

[Sinn Fein]

@Eephus 

Vettel - caught up in a late yellow - misses Q2, as does Ocon.

Tsunoda - 

Tsunoda, and AlphaTauri, look strong.  Vettel on the other hand...

Oh - and Russell continues to out-qualify his Willaims teammate (he did lose out to Bottas last year when he raced for Mercedes) - and gets into Q2

 

[Sinn Fein]

Checo Perez - 2nd Driver curse at Red Bull.

Had 1st lap time deleted, and then just missed-out on Q3 in the one lap time he did get.  Maybe a strategic error - went with Mediums even on teh 2nd run.

Both Ferraris get through - but I think they will both be the only cars in the top-10 on soft tires tomorrow.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Tip of the cap to Verstappen.  Good car, good driver.

Mercedes can't complain much about P2 and P3.

Ferrari and McLaren might be the two happiest teams with qualifying performances.

 

[massraider]

Mazepin can't be much of a villain if he's constantly spinning out.

Pretty cold-blooded of the announcer to point out that Twitter is already calling him MazeSpin.   

 

[QuizGuy66]

Soon to be Crashandspin I bet

-QG

 

[Eephus]

Nice mix of different cars in Q3.

I'm interested to see if Leclerc can do anything early since I think he's the only frontrunner on Softs.  He could really mess up Mercedes' race if he can split them at the start.

The intramural battle between Norris and Ricciardo will be fascinating all year. They're really closely matched.

Sucks for Seb but Aston/RP/FI are the masters at running a long first stint to gain track position.

 

[charvik]

Setting up to be an interesting season (finally) if Red Bull can stay competitive, with some occasional sprinkling of McLaren, Alpine, Ferrari, Alpha Tauri(!?) to break up the top two teams.

Ferrari's pace surprised me, with Leclerc qualifying 4th... I figured they would max their research for the 2022 season to get back and challenge for real.

 

[massraider]

Noob question:

Alpha Tauri is Red Bull's 2nd team. Seems to me if AT is also owned by Red Bull, they would want it to succeed as much as possible.  Do they have LESS of a stake as with the RB team? If not, how does the 2nd team thing manifest itself? Less money? Does the RB team keep tech secrets from the AT team? Do they have different engines? Do they use AT to 'try out' new tech?

 

[Sinn Fein]

Noob question:

Alpha Tauri is Red Bull's 2nd team. Seems to me if AT is also owned by Red Bull, they would want it to succeed as much as possible.  Do they have LESS of a stake as with the RB team? If not, how does the 2nd team thing manifest itself? Less money? Does the RB team keep tech secrets from the AT team? Do they have different engines? Do they use AT to 'try out' new tech?

Some technology can be shared between teams - but rules dictate that certain portions of the car are designed by the specific team.

One of last year's "scandals" was that Racing Point had copied the 2019 Mercedes car - with the help of Mercedes design specs.  Much of that was legal (albeit still frowned upon), but Racing Point also used the specs for a few parts that were designated as having to be designed by each team, and thus were penalized 15 points in the constructor's championship.

Engines is an important thing at Red Bull this year.  Both teams use Honda engines - but Honda is dropping out at the end of the season.  So, Red Bull has acquired the intellectual property from Honda and plans to develop its own engines going forward - which will be supplied to AlphaTauri also.  

In the case of Red Bull more R&D goes into the Red Bull car, and if it works is later passed down to the AlphaTauri team.  The area where AlphaTauri might help Red Bull is in allowing driver development.  But teams like Ferrari (Haas) and Mercedes (Williams) also use lower tier teams to provide driver experience for drivers under their contract.

Article describing relationship - head of Red Bull racing upgrades AlphaTauri from junior team to sister team.

 

[Sinn Fein]

For reference - 2021 Engine suppliers:

Mercedes: Mercedes, McLaren, Aston Martin, Williams

Ferrari: Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Haas

Renault: Alpine

Honda: Red Bull, AlphaTauri

 

[Sinn Fein]

Sucks for Seb but Aston/RP/FI are the masters at running a long first stint to gain track position.

I shouldn't laugh - but I just saw that Seb was hit with a grid penalty for ignoring yellow flags on his qualifying lap...

Vettel failed to set a fast enough time to progress through to Q2, but after the session he was summoned to the stewards, who, after hearing from the ex-Ferrari driver on Sunday, found that he had failed to respect the double waved yellows, and hit him with a five-place grid drop for the Grand Prix, and imposed three penalty points.

He has been somewhat snakebitten since preseason testing, but this is not a great start at the new team.  I don't share your confidence in his return to form, but I do hope things turn around for him.  Otherwise, I fear a very rocky season, assuming he was brought in to provide a bit of leadership and mentoring for Lance Stroll.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Crashaspin already.

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Shoulda bet on Lewis - I think gremlins are definitely in the mix for Red Bull.  Hard to imagine that only Perez is going to have that issue.

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Q:  Perez didn't run the 2nd formation lap but that lap gets deleted from the total laps run.  He should be already a lap down, no?

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW WHAT A FINISH!!!!!

-QG

 

[Sinn Fein]

Great race all the way around.   Good on the track, great strategy calls, front of the race was what everyone wanted, lots of great midfield racing.

Happy:  Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Tsunoda

Sad: Red Bull (But really a great team result, all things considered), Alpine

Indifferent: Haas, Williams, Alfa Romeo

 

[Sinn Fein]

If there was one nit to pick, I would say that there was a massive gap from the front 3 to the rest of the field.  So much that Bottas had the chance to pit for tires on the last lap to get the fastest lap point, and still comfortably hold 3rd place.

 

[Eephus]

If there was one nit to pick, I would say that there was a massive gap from the front 3 to the rest of the field. 

You new around here?

 

[massraider]

Great race all the way around.   Good on the track, great strategy calls, front of the race was what everyone wanted, lots of great midfield racing.

It was really interesting/confusing seeing the strategy on pitting and tires.  Announcers helpful.  

I'm probably actively rooting against Aston Martin at this point, joining Riccardo.  

Nice work by Perez working his way back up through the muck.  

 

[Eephus]

There's a three week gap before Imola. Teams at the factory will be putting in long shifts between now and then.

It was good for Tsunoda and Mick to get a full race distance under their belts but it was the worst day imaginable for Mazepin.

I feel bad for Gasly but based on Yuki's pace, it looks like AT will be a strong contender in Class B.  The Alpine looks like a handful to drive; Fred will not be a happy boy.  I laughed at Crofty's line about how Otmar Szafnauer would complain about rake angles if you asked him what he had for breakfast.

 

[Eephus]

Nice work by Perez working his way back up through the muck.  

That's kind of his specialty.

Checo will have better Saturdays. It would have made a huge difference if he'd started up front since Mercedes won on strategy rather than pace.

 

[QuizGuy66]

If there was one nit to pick, I would say that there was a massive gap from the front 3 to the rest of the field.  So much that Bottas had the chance to pit for tires on the last lap to get the fastest lap point, and still comfortably hold 3rd place.

I think Perez closes that up when they don't screw up qualifying and assuming they fix the glitches he has been having.  I think he showed a lot so we can soon complain about it being 4 guys then a gap to the rest of the field

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

There's a three week gap before Imola. Teams at the factory will be putting in long shifts between now and then.

It was good for Tsunoda and Mick to get a full race distance under their belts but it was the worst day imaginable for Mazepin.

I feel bad for Gasly but based on Yuki's pace, it looks like AT will be a strong contender in Class B.  The Alpine looks like a handful to drive; Fred will not be a happy boy.  I laughed at Crofty's line about how Otmar Szafnauer would complain about rake angles if you asked him what he had for breakfast.

Baby steps with Mazespin - with luck and determination he'll make it all the way to lap two next week.

We'll see how long it takes for sports books to eliminate him from the first retirement betting.

-QG

 

[Sinn Fein]

This is Mercedes Debrief on the race - answers some questions on strategy, etc.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Nico Hulkenberg joins Aston Martin (as a reserve driver)

Interesting move - probably just a "I don't want to give up racing yet" move by Hulkenberg.  But the cynic in me says this puts more pressure on Vettel 

 

[Eephus]

Back to Imola this weekend. It's a narrow circuit with few passing opportunities and the long pit lane makes one stoppers a no brainer. There's rain in the forecast for this weekend which could liven things up a bit.

The Mercedes-Red Bull battle is on. It'll be interesting to see if the balance of power has moved in the past three weeks.

I'm looking for big things from Alpha Tauri. They used the track for Tsunoda's acclimation laps in an old spec car and the filming days with the 2021 car so they should have a lot of data.

Haas' one and only update for this season will be on the cars this weekend. There's a lot less runoff than Bahrain so Mazepin might hit something.

 

[Eephus]

If you're looking for F1 content after finishing the Drive to Survive, Peacock is streaming The Race to Perfection, the seven-part Skysports documentary to commemorate the 70th anniversary of F1 last year. 

I'm a couple of hours in.  I'm not a fan of the haphazard structure of the film but there's great historical footage and a stellar collection of talking heads.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Back to Imola this weekend. It's a narrow circuit with few passing opportunities and the long pit lane makes one stoppers a no brainer. There's rain in the forecast for this weekend which could liven things up a bit.

The Mercedes-Red Bull battle is on. It'll be interesting to see if the balance of power has moved in the past three weeks.

I'm looking for big things from Alpha Tauri. They used the track for Tsunoda's acclimation laps in an old spec car and the filming days with the 2021 car so they should have a lot of data.

Haas' one and only update for this season will be on the cars this weekend. There's a lot less runoff than Bahrain so Mazepin might hit something.

Hoping RB really does give MB a serious challenge this season. 
 

That Netflix series was very well done. For the F1 newbie it checked off all the boxes I believe.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I know the schedule was scrambled due to covid, but it seems so long ago since the opening race.  A little lost momentum from a  great first weekend.  

Red Bull have the better car, but, they will have to show a level of consistency, from both cars, to really take advantage - I think.