Official Great Works Draft (1 Viewer)

[BobbyLayne]

Here's the deal.. I'll try to make some of my makeup picks tomorrow, but if anyone wants to make some picks for my team, feel free to. You know, if there is a particular work that you really think ought to have been drafted but was overlooked, go ahead and draft it for team thatguy.

Can I call dibs on the rest of thatguy's team?

How about you call dibs on one pick?I wanna take his last movie (my picks got slightly messed up while I was in the E.U. so I never got to take my Round 59 movie).

Cool. I'll take something he needs to pick as long as it isn't composition. I don't know what he needs to choose as I haven't gone back to page 1 yet. My partner also wants to choose an Acting Performance if he has one available.

Think he needs one. Non-fiction book was another...where's rodg12 when you need him? What kind of MVP is he, anyway?

 

[BobbyLayne]

Mostly adding to what's already been said about the acting performance rankings, but Gene Hackman is dynamite in The French Connection. Really damn good, and I definitely wouldn't mind seeing him a tier or two higher. Also, I do think that Peck's performance in To Kill A Mockingbird is generally overrated. It's certainly a great performance, but it doesn't deviate much at all from the traditional stoic lead role that was the standard at the time. It's a great version of that archetype (maybe the most iconic of the kind), but it's not as fresh and unique as the rest of the stuff in Tier 1.

That reminds me, I'm slightly suprised Sidney Portier was not drafted. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, To Sir With Love and esp In the Heat of the Night ("They call me Mr. Tibbs")were all superb. For a couple years in the mid-to-late 60s he was the leading leading man.

Yeah, Sidney Poitier got hosed in the GAD so let's not go there.

Really? As...immigrant? Didn't know until I started researching for this draft but I guess he has been the Bahamas ambassador to Japan for more than a decade.

 

[BobbyLayne]

OK, I have no idea if Page 1 is up to date, but thatguy's holes per timschochet:

Non fiction

Scientific Discovery

Invention

Invention (2)

Movie

Documentary

Television Show

Acting Performance

Play

Wildcard

Wildcard

Wildcard (3)

That's 12...NFW that is right.

Anybody know?

 

[timschochet]

OK, now it gets really difficult.

11 points

The Birthday Party

Our Town

Richard II

Medea

Not much to say here. Pinter's work is a great modern masterpiece. Wilder's Our Town is the quintessential American play. Medea is a classic work by Euripedes, one of the great Greek tragic playwrights.

Richard II is a greatly detailed historical work. I don't rank it quite as high as some of the other historical Bard plays coming up later on.

 

[krista4]

Mostly adding to what's already been said about the acting performance rankings, but Gene Hackman is dynamite in The French Connection. Really damn good, and I definitely wouldn't mind seeing him a tier or two higher. Also, I do think that Peck's performance in To Kill A Mockingbird is generally overrated. It's certainly a great performance, but it doesn't deviate much at all from the traditional stoic lead role that was the standard at the time. It's a great version of that archetype (maybe the most iconic of the kind), but it's not as fresh and unique as the rest of the stuff in Tier 1.

That reminds me, I'm slightly suprised Sidney Portier was not drafted. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, To Sir With Love and esp In the Heat of the Night ("They call me Mr. Tibbs")were all superb. For a couple years in the mid-to-late 60s he was the leading leading man.

Wow, not more than three minutes ago, I said "They call me Mr. Tibbs" to OH. (Don't ask what goes on at our house.)

 

[timschochet]

12 Points

Angels In America

The Alchemist

Antony and Cleopatra

Cyrano

Angels in America, which I have neither seen nor read (though I think I saw at least part of the HBO Miniseries) is one of the most highly respected dramas of the last 20 years. I am ranking it here by reputation.

Doing the same thing with The Alchemist, which is said to be Ben Johnson's finest work. Samuel Taylor Coleridge claimed that it had one of the three most perfect plots in literature.

Antony and Cleopatra is one of the Bard's greatest works and it is significant that it features, aside from Kate in Taming of the Shrew, one of the most fully realized female characters of the Elizabethan stage.

Cyrano de Bergerac is simply brilliant, with the creation of perhaps the most memorable protagonist in stage history.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Picks owed:Thatguy - 10 (Documentary, Invention, Invention, Invention, Movie, Non-fiction Book, Play, T.V. Show, Wildcard, Wildcard)

Is he down to 9? I know the took some cannibals today.

 

[rodg12]

Thatguy - 9 (Documentary, Invention, Invention, Invention, Movie, Non-fiction Book, Play, T.V. Show, Wildcard)

Abrantes - 1 (Philosophical/Political Idea)

 

[timschochet]

13 Points

My Fair Lady

Henry V

The Threepenny Opera

Twelfth Night

As I've explained before, I consider My Fair Lady to be the perfect musical. But in the overall category of plays, the perfect musical is forced to be placed behind 28 other works.

The Threepenny Opera is also by definition a musical, but it's significance is more for it's representation of German Expressionism on stage. It also features the classic song "Mack the Knife" which would have been a worthy draft pick.

The two Shakespeare works here need no explanation by me. They are among the finest plays ever written. It's really a subjective choice how to rank the Bard from this point on. I am trying to combine my own personal tastes with what is generally thought by critics.

 

[Fennis]

Thatguy - 9 (Documentary, Invention, Invention, Invention, Movie, Non-fiction Book, Play, T.V. Show, Wildcard)Abrantes - 1 (Philosophical/Political Idea)

dibs on TV Show

 

[Fennis]

Thatguy make-up pick TV Show: Doctor Who

Not a show I watch (or like), but I want to see where it is ranked. I think it should be fairly high, although I suppose it depends if Yankee is familiar with it or not.

Doctor Who is a British science fiction television programme produced by the BBC. The programme depicts the adventures of a mysterious alien time-traveller known as "the Doctor" who travels in his space and time-ship, the TARDIS, which normally appears from the exterior to be a blue 1950s police box. With his companions, he explores time and space, solving problems, facing monsters and righting wrongs.

The programme is listed in Guinness World Records as the longest-running science fiction television show in the world[1] and is also a significant part of British popular culture.[2][3] It has been recognised for its imaginative stories, creative low-budget special effects during its original run, and pioneering use of electronic music (originally produced by the BBC Radiophonic Workshop). In the United Kingdom and elsewhere, the show has become a cult television favourite and has influenced generations of British television professionals, many of whom grew up watching the series. It has received recognition from critics and the public as one of the finest British television programmes, including the BAFTA Award for Best Drama Series in 2006.

The programme originally ran from 1963 to 1989. After an unsuccessful attempt to revive regular production with a backdoor pilot in the form of a 1996 television film, the programme was successfully relaunched in 2005, produced in-house by BBC Wales in Cardiff. The first three seasons of the new series had some development money contributed by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC), which was credited as a co-producer.[4] Doctor Who has also spawned spin-offs in multiple media, including the current television programmes Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures, and a single 1981 pilot episode of K-9 and Company.

The show's protagonist, the Doctor, has been played by ten actors over the history of the show so far. The transition from one actor to another is written into the plot of the show as regeneration, and the different parts are often treated as distinct characters to the extent that in some time travel plots they encounter one another and work together. The Doctor is currently portrayed by David Tennant. In the programme's most recent series, which ran from 5 April to 5 July 2008,[5] Catherine Tate played the Doctor's companion, reprising her role of Donna Noble from the 2006 Christmas special.[6] A Christmas special, entitled "The Next Doctor", was broadcast in 2008 and will be followed by four more specials in 2009 and early 2010. The first of these was an Easter special titled "Planet of the Dead", which broadcast in April 2009, and the next one will be named "The Waters of Mars"; the next full series, Series 5, has been confirmed to air in 2010.[7] Tennant announced at the 2008 National Television Awards that after appearing in the four 2009–2010 Doctor Who specials, he will leave the role.[8][9] The Eleventh Doctor will be portrayed by Matt Smith. Smith was 26 years old at the time of his casting, making him the youngest actor to be cast in the role.[10] Karen Gillan, who played a soothsayer in the episode "The Fires of Pompeii", will play the Eleventh Doctor's companion.[11]

 

[rodg12]

I'll appease the man with the original idea behind this draft and take thatguy's last play........

53.10 - Amadeus - Peter Shaffer - Play

speaking of theater - absolute TRRRRAVISHAMOCKERY that neither of Peter Shaffer's major plays - Amadeus, Equus - were selected here. respectively, the most soaring & gut-wrenching experiences i've had in a theater. Amadeus (also the 2nd best film not selected) was soooo much better than the movie &, tho Abraham was better than McKellen (i hear the immortal Frank Finlay - the greatest actor nobody knows - was the best), Tim Curry's tortured fool of a Mozart ranks with The Great Zero's 60s tours-de-force & Pacino's Pavlo Hummel as the greatest performances of the modern stage. nufced

Wiki

 

[timschochet]

14 Points

Doctor Faustus

Three Sisters

The Tempest

Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

Doctor Faustus by Christopher Marlowe is not to be confused with Faust, Pt. One by Goethe. Both of these plays deal with the same subject of the man who sells his soul to the devil. This play is considered Marlowe's greatest work, and among the greatest plays ever written, but it is not considered quite as great as the German work.

Three Sisters is one of two plays drafted by Anton Checkov. Both are as good as the finest Russian literature. I rank Three Sisters slightly beneath The Cherry Orchard simply by reputation, but both are masterpieces (I seem to be using that word a lot.)

The Tempest is for me Shakespeare's weirdest work. I can't really figure it out, even though the prose is marvelous. What's really going on in Prospero's Island? In terms of imagery, this play reminds me of The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost, which I guess is pretty high praise.

The word I would use to describe Cat on A Hot Tin Roof is ascerbic. Like Faulkner and Thomas Wolfe, Williams takes a knife to the American South and attempts to reveal the scabs beneath the beauty. For a gay man, he had incredible insight into heterosexual relationships.

 

[timschochet]

Amadeus is a great work, not quite as great as Shaeffer's other play (which I actually considered taking when I was looking for a play with a donkey- I figured a horse was close enough.)

I'm going to rank Amadeus at 11 points alongside The Birthday Party as one of the great modern plays.

 

[timschochet]

15 Points

Antigone

Richard III

The Merchant of Venice

Tartuffe

I'm only sad that these plays aren't in the top tier. Damn, they could all be ranked 20, and I wouldn't raise any objection. Both of the Bard works are simply among the finest that literature has to offer. Tartuffe is considered one of the great comedies ever written. And Antigone is among the best Greek tragedies. What's not to like here? Every selection from this point on is a great masterpiece of the stage. (There's that word again.)

 

[Fennis]

Just a question away from the draft...what do people think of this cover??

Link.

Wow, amazing, really powerful.That's how you do a cover.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Thatguy make-up pick Movie: Always Sanchōme no Yūhi

Always: Sunset on Third Street (Japan 2005)

wiki entry

This is not a cinephile/movie snob choice. Its just a great story.

Based on Ryohei Saigan's popular manga, this slice-of-life ensemble tale from filmmaker Takashi Yamazaki centers on the interconnecting lives of the working-class residents that make up the community of a small Tokyo town in 1950s Japan. Headlining the cast is Shinichi Tsutsumi as scrappy auto shop owner Norifumi Suzuki, Maki Horikita as fresh-faced Suzuki auto apprentice Matsuko and Hidetaka Yoshioka as struggling writer Ryunosuke Chagawa.

There are 13 major categories for films at the Japan Academy Prize (aka Japanese Academy Awards). In 2006, this film won 12 of them.I met the director (Takashi Yamazaki) that year at a screening at the Japan Society. Prior to this film he was known in Japan primarily as for his CGI work. That aspect is notable in this film for the work done in recreating 1958 Tokyo (prominently featured in background shots of the skyline is the partially completed Tokyo Tower). The film is filled with light-hearted moments which evoke a sense of romanticized nostalgia for 1950s Tokyo, a sub-genre or aesthetic which is quite popular in recent years in Japanese media. When the family the plot centers around earns enough money to obtain a black-and-white television, it is first switched on in front of the entire community, which has gathered in and around the house. Despite serious and dark elements of the plot lines, and the overall difficulties of the characters' lives, episodes such as these give a feeling of the nostalgic idea of life in an easier time, a post-war Japanese "good old days".

Netflix

Its a horrible cliche, but this is one of those movies that makes you laugh hard and cry harder; you really get sucked into the struggles of the characters. Its got enough edge to keep it from being overly sentimental, and you end up rooting for everyone.

That to me is great movie making (in any language), when the director makes you care about the people in the film.

Krista4 - I warned you like 10 rounds ago...did it ever get in the cue?

 

[timschochet]

Here we go with the final tier!

16 Points

Electra

Prometheus Bound

A Streetcar Named Desire

Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolff?

Electra (I'm assuming the work by Sophocles) is considered by many to be his finest work, save one, and among the greatest of Greek tragedies. Prometheus Bound might be even more legendary, and certainly more performed. These two plays are the quintessential ancient Greek plays.

A Streetcar Named Desire deserves it's fame as one of the great plays of the mid twentieth century. Like all of the classic Williams works, it's themes are family secrets, betrayal, heterosexual relationships, and the hidden destructive nature of the American South. That I rank it slightly below one other Williams play is probably subjective on my part.

I was very close to drafting Albee's work myself and I am so glad someone took it. Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolff is a startling critique of "the good life" of the mid twentieth century along the same lines as The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit. But this play is far more cutting than that novel.

 

[timschochet]

17 Points

Long Days Journey Into Night

A Doll’s House

The Glass Menagerie

The Importance of Being Earnest

Anything that I would write about these plays could never live up to their greatness, so I will simply say:

One of O'Neils two great masterpieces.

Ibsen's finest work.

Tennessee Williams' finest work.

Oscar Wilde's greatest play.

So we have 4 of the greatest works by 4 of the greatest writers in history. The only amazing thing is that there are still 12 plays left to rank above them.

 

[timschochet]

18 Points

A Midsummer Night’s Dream

Othello

Julius Caesar

Death of A Salesman

Before I get to the Bard, let me discuss Arthur Miller's Death of A Salesman, which is considered the greatest American play. I'm actually not a huge fan of this work as opposed to another work by the same author (which was drafted by a nemesis of mine who prefers that I do not evaluate his picks, which is too bad in this instance as this particular pick would receive a pretty high ranking). But I bow to the critics here. It is a serious critique of American style capitalism and the pressures on our middle class.

As for Shakespeare, he simply dominates all discussion of theatre, period. More so than the Beatles comparison I made earlier, more so than Rembrandt or Michelangelo as artists, the Bard IS theatre. It is impossible to avoid him dominating the top ranks of this competition.

 

[timschochet]

19 Points

The Cherry Orchard

Waiting for Godot

Pygmalion

Faust Pt 1

All of these plays could easily be 20's. I am not a fan of Samuel Beckett's work, but again I must bow to the critics, who are unanimous in their praise. Faust is considered more of a great literary work to be read than a play to be performed on stage, but of course it is up there with the greatest literary works of all time. The Cherry Orchard gets it's place with War and Peace, Anna Karenina, Crime and Punishment et al as the best that Russian literature has to offer. Finally, Pygmalion is George Bernard Shaw's greatest work and IMO the finest play written since the death of William Shakespeare.

 

[timschochet]

20 points

Hamlet

Oedipus Rex

Romeo And Juliet

King Lear

And the 20 spots are dominated by the Bard. Big surprise; I wish I could be more innovative here but I simply had no other option. The one Greek drama I have included is the greatest of tragedies and most immortal works ever. As for the other three- if you have works on this list that you would rank above them, make a good argument. I can't think of one.

This has been difficult, but a whole lot of fun. Obviously, some of you will disagree with these rankings and I hope you express your disagreement or approval or any thoughts you have. Working on this list has made me appreciate just how incredibly great the history of the stage has been, and for that I thank everyone who participated.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I'm going to assume Mother Courage and Her Children received 21 points.

 

[rodg12]

Good job, tim. I'd appreciate it if you could PM me the complete list when you get a chance. With that finished, I'm off to bed. Talk to you all in the morning.

 

[Fennis]

good job tim

 

[timschochet]

I'm going to assume Mother Courage and Her Children received 21 points.

No, it gets a zero.Just kidding. Don't know how I missed this. As I wrote before, not a huge fan of Brecht, but there's no getting around the fact that this is considered one of the greatest plays ever, perhaps the greatest antiwar play ever. I'm ranking it at 15 points, just outside the first tier.

 

[BobbyLayne]

15 Points

Antigone

Richard III

The Merchant of Venice

Tartuffe

That's good company, no complaint.Nice job, timschochet. Somewhat difficult category...but IMO, also one of the most enjoyable to judge - simply because everyone did such an awesome job with this cat.

 

[wikkidpissah]

your best judging job since i started following them, tim. fundamentally disagree on a few, but not a single choice is indefensible. i'm assuming the Scottish play is one of yours, cuz i didnt see it. what are the rest?

 

[timschochet]

Final Ranking for Plays (excluding my plays and MisfitBlondes):

20 pts

Hamlet

Oedipus Rex

Romeo And Juliet

King Lear

19 pts

The Cherry Orchard

Waiting for Godot

Pygmalion

Faust Pt 1

18 Points

A Midsummer Night’s Dream

Othello

Julius Caesar

Death of A Salesman

17 pts

Long Days Journey Into Night

A Doll’s House

The Glass Menagerie

The Importance of Being Earnest

16 pts

Electra

Prometheus Bound

A Streetcar Named Desire

Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolff?

15 pts

Antigone

Richard III

The Merchant of Venice

Tartuffe

Mother Courage and Her Children

14 pts

Doctor Faustus

Three Sisters

The Tempest

Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

13 pts

My Fair Lady

Henry V

The Threepenny Opera

Twelfth Night

12 pts

Angels In America

The Alchemist

Antony and Cleopatra

Cyrano

11 pts

The Birthday Party

Our Town

Richard II

Medea

Amadeus

10 pts

Glengarry Glen Ross

Oklahoma!

The Recognition of Shan####ala

Marat/Sade

An Enemy of the People

9 pts

Six Characters In Search of An Author

The Bachhae

South Pacific

Lysistrata

The Orestiea

8 pts

The Miracle Worker

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

The Knights

A Chorus Line

Jesus Christ Superstar

7 pts

Titus Adronicus

An Ideal Husband

Arms and the Man

West Side Story

Fiddler on The Roof

6 pts

Edward II

The Caucasian Chalk Circle

Les Miserables

Phantom of The Opera

5 pts

Volpone

La Vida Es Sueno

Arcadia

True West

L' Misanthrope

The Skin of Our Teeth

4 pts

Driving Miss Daisy

Brighton Beach Memoirs

HMS Pinafore

The Mousetrap

The Music Man

The Odd Couple

3 pts

Gypsy

Chicago

Cats

The Sound of Music

2 pts

Grease

Tamburlaine The Great

Showboat

The Producers

1 pt

Chess

1776

Tommy

Everyman

 

[timschochet]

your best judging job since i started following them, tim. fundamentally disagree on a few, but not a single choice is indefensible. i'm assuming the Scottish play is one of yours, cuz i didnt see it. what are the rest?

My selections were:Macbeth

The Taming of the Shrew

The Iceman Cometh

Inherit The Wind

The Children's Hour

Out of curiosity, what are your fundamental disagreements?

 

[timschochet]

Congratulations to Genedoc for selecting, IMO, the greatest group of plays. His first three, Oedipus, A Midsummer Night's Dream, and A Doll's House get rankings of 20, 18, and 17. The other two, Medea and Lysistrada, really deserved higher praise than I was able to give them.

Well done!

 

[wikkidpissah]

Final Ranking for Plays (excluding my plays and MisfitBlondes):

20 pts

Hamlet

Oedipus Rex

Romeo And Juliet

King Lear

19 pts

The Cherry Orchard

Waiting for Godot i'd swap this out for Otello or one of the greeks

Pygmalion

Faust Pt 1

18 Points

A Midsummer Night’s Dream

Othello

Julius Caesar

Death of A Salesman hacky execution of a great idea

17 pts

Long Days Journey Into Night

A Doll’s House

The Glass Menagerie

The Importance of Being Earnest

16 pts

Electra

Prometheus Bound

A Streetcar Named Desire

Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolff? other monstrously overrated play

15 pts

Antigone

Richard III

The Merchant of Venice

Tartuffe Death of a Salesman replacement

Mother Courage and Her Children

14 pts

Doctor Faustus not a good play

Three Sisters too low

The Tempest

Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

13 pts

My Fair Lady though i applaud u not getting carried away with a personal favorite, the top musical shouldve been one of the fully-conceived 3 i mentioned earlier

Henry V

The Threepenny Opera

Twelfth Night

12 pts

Angels In America only seen the TVization but, from what people i respect have told me, i'd have no prob rating this the highest of any American play

The Alchemist not half the play Volpone is

Antony and Cleopatra

Cyrano 5 pts too low - iconic

11 pts

The Birthday Party low

Our Town low

Richard II

Medea

Amadeus

10 pts

Glengarry Glen Ross

Oklahoma!

The Recognition of Shan####ala

Marat/Sade

An Enemy of the People

9 pts

Six Characters In Search of An Author

The Bachhae

South Pacific

Lysistrata

The Orestiea

8 pts

The Miracle Worker

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead low

The Knights

A Chorus Line

Jesus Christ Superstar

7 pts

Titus Adronicus

An Ideal Husband

Arms and the Man

West Side Story top 2 musicals selected right here

Fiddler on The Roof

6 pts

Edward II

The Caucasian Chalk Circle

Les Miserables

Phantom of The Opera

5 pts

Volpone

La Vida Es Sueno

Arcadia

True West

L' Misanthrope

The Skin of Our Teeth

4 pts

Driving Miss Daisy

Brighton Beach Memoirs

HMS Pinafore

The Mousetrap

The Music Man

The Odd Couple low - i'll take this over any Miller or Albee or most of Williams or Oneill

3 pts

Gypsy

Chicago

Cats

The Sound of Music

2 pts

Grease

Tamburlaine The Great

Showboat

The Producers

1 pt

Chess

1776

Tommy

Everyman

i'm a concept-over-construct guy. tis easy to see that i HATE overwrought American argue plays, but its only cuz i could hear better qvetching any summer night from my fire escape growing up. *yawn* if ONeill hadnt invented the form, i'd knock him down, too. but, like i said, every choice is defensible & defended and that's really all one can ask.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Thatguy - 9 6 (Documentary, Invention, Invention, Invention, Movie, Non-fiction Book, Play, T.V. Show, Wildcard)

Last night Thatguy gave us carte blanche to fill out his team, and we knocked out 1/3 of his remaining picks.Lets knock the rest out this morning.

Anybody who wants to make one, just call dibs and post a pick.

BL, Fennis and rodg12 already took one pick each (yes, I just referred to myself in pseudo third person).

 

[BobbyLayne]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven't already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Juliette Binoche in Three Colors: Blue (1993). Here's how great Binoche has been - there are at least five roles since Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988) that could have been drafted.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Tier 1

Terry Malloy in On the Waterfront - Marlon Brando

Sophie Zawistowski in "Sophie's Choice" - Meryl Streep

Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull - Robert DeNiro

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - Peter Sellers

Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver - Robert DeNiro

Gandhi - Sir Ben Kingsley

Dr. Hannibal Lector in The Silence of the Lambs - Sir Anthony Hopkins

R.P. McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - Jack Nicholson

Sonny Wortzik in Dog Day Afternoon - Al Pacino

Don Vito Corleone in The Godfather - Marlon Brando

I watched Ghandi again last night because there was nothing else on and to be really honest, Kingsley just sucks you into that movie and doesn't let you go. I'd probably say it about every performance here, but I don't see how that isn't the #1 overall. You can't do a better job acting then he did in that movie.

And my next comment is going to be interesting to many, so let me preface.... The Godfather is the best movie ever made. I don't believe there is a close second, however one of those movies that gets to make an argument to me is Godfather II, which is a testatment to the sequel that it could be so high. There is nothing wrong to me with any performance of any character in Godfather. Every one of them could have been drafted - Duval, Brando, Pacino, Caan, Shire, etc etc right down to all the bit actors including Lucca Bratze (and he wasn't an actor). Just brilliant all around. So, having said that - I don't think Brando is a tier 1 in this group. Tier 2 without question, but he wasn't the power of the movie - Pacino, Caan and Duval were.

Tier 2

Col. Nicholson in The Bridge on the River Kwai - Sir Alec Guinness

Christy Brown in My Left Foot - Daniel Day Lewis

Scarlett O'Hara in Gone With The Wind - Vivien Leigh

Atticus Finch in To Kill A Mockingbird - Gregory Peck

The Great Dictator - Charlie Chaplin

George M. Cohan in Yankee Doodle Dandy - James Cagney

Henry V - Sir Laurence Olivier

Stanley Kowlski in A Streetcar Named Desire - Marlon Brando

Lt. Col. Wilbur "Bull" Meechum in The Great Santini - Robert Duvall

Patton - George C. Scott

Peck is probably a tier too high, as is Chaplin.



Tier 3

Jack Torrance in The Shining - Jack Nicholson

Don Michael Corleone in The Godfather II - Al Pacino

Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore in Apocalypse Now - Robert Duvall

Rick Blaine in Casablanca - Humphrey Bogart

George Baily in It's a Wonderful Life - James Stewart

Eleanor of Aquitaine in the Lion of Winter - Katherine Hepburn

Shelley "The Machine" Levene in Glengarry Glen Ross - Jack Lemmon

The Passion of Joan of Arc - Renee Maria Falconetti

Robert Eroica Dupea in Five Easy Pieces - Jack Nicholson

Last Tango in Paris - Marlon Brando

Stumping for my pick, I know, but Pacino in Godfather II should be a solid tier 2 without having to think too much. Duvall should drop a tier, Bogart should move up.



Tier 4

Guido Orefice in Life Is Beautiful - Roberto Benigni

Commander James Bond in Goldfinger - Sean Connery

Norman Bates in Psycho - Anthony Perkins

The Joker in The Dark Knight - Heath Ledger

Amon Goeth in Schindler's List - Ralph Fiennes

Juror #8 in 12 Angry Men - Henry Fonda

Patrick Bateman in American Psycho - Christian Bale

Antonion Saleri in Amadeus - F. Murray Abraham

Sara Goldfarb in Requiem for a Dream - Ellen Burstyn

Raymond Babbitt in Rain Main - Dustin Hoffman

Connery needs to drop. It was the best Bond film without question, but it still is not a powerful acting performance. Perkins should be higher. Hoffman's role should be lower.



Tier 5

Truman Capote in Capote - Phillip Seymour Hoffman

Anton Chigurh in No Country for Old Men - Javier Bardem

Mary Poppins in Mary Poppins - Julie Andrews

Marshal Will Kane in High Noon - Gary Cooper

Tony Montana in Scarface - Al Pacino

A Woman Under the Influence - Gena Rowlands

Dr. Christian Szell in Marathon Man - Sir Lawrence Olivier

Forrest Gump in Forrest Gump - Tom Hanks

Capt. Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean - Johnny Depp

Clarice M. Starling in The Silence of the Lambs - Jodi Foster

Pacino should be 2 tiers higher, Hanks should be another tier lower and Foster should be higher - hers may have been the best performance of that movie. Glad to see Depp getting some love here because that acting job was beyond brilliant.



Tier 6

Enrico Ratso Rizzo in Midnight Cowboy - Dustin Hoffman

The Elephant Man - John Hurt

Mr. Blonde in Reservoir Dogs - Michael Madsen

The Year of Living Dangerously - Linda Hunt

Andrew Beckett in Philadelphia - Tom Hanks

Carlo Bartolucci (Charlie Barret) in Suicide Kings - Christopher Walken

Don Lockwood in Singin' In The Rain - Gene Kelly

Detective James "Popeye" Doyle in The French Connection - Gene Hackman

Fred C. Dobbs in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre - Humphrey Bogart

Martha in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf - Elizabeth Taylor

Again, stumping for my guys, but Hoffman's Rizzo is widely regarded as one of the greatest roles and it's certainly better then Rain Man. I would drop Madsen another tier, I would bump Hackman up at least a tier if not 2 and Elizabeth Taylor should be a lock for at least tier 3.



Tier 7

Gordon Gekko in Wall Street - Michael Douglas

Max Cady in Cape Fear - Robert Mitchum

Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood - Daniel Day Lewis

Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard - Gloria Swanson

Luke Jackson in Cool Hand Luke - Paul Newman

Jim Stark in Rebel Without A Cause - James Dean

Ruth Popper in The Last Picture Show - Cloris Leachman

Professor Kingsfield in The Paper Chase - John Houseman

Father Flanagan in Boy's Town - Spencer Tracy

Homer Parrish in The Best Years of Our Lives - Harold Russell

Dean should be higher.



Tier 8

Bad Lieutenant in Bad Lieutenant - Harvey Keitel

Tuco in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly - Eli Wallach

Loren Visser in Blood Simple - M. Emmet Walsh

Randy "The Ram" Robinson - Mickey Rourke

Helene McCready in Gone Baby Gone - Amy Ryan

Ethan Edwards in The Searchers - John Wayne

No strong comment either way.

Team Guapo’s picks:

T.E. Lawrence in Lawrence of Arabia - Peter O'Toole Teir 1 without question

Howard Beale in Network - Peter Finch tier 3

Ray Charles in Ray - Jamie Foxx tier 3

Edward Scissorhands - Johnny Depp tier 7

 

[Yankee23Fan]

AMC? Yeah, lot of good movies on that channel the next few weeks (Sophie's Choice and a bunch of other Streep movies next week).

I've never seen Sophie's Choice...is this a movie I should I make an effort to see?

Yes. And if you don't have your heart crushed at the dramatic climax of the movie then you aren't human.

 

[Bonzai]

Congratulations to Genedoc for selecting, IMO, the greatest group of plays. His first three, Oedipus, A Midsummer Night's Dream, and A Doll's House get rankings of 20, 18, and 17. The other two, Medea and Lysistrada, really deserved higher praise than I was able to give them.

Well done!

 

[DCThunder]

I know he's one of my picks, but a solid case could be made that Alec Guiness' Col. Nicholson in Kwai whould be a Tier 1. In fact, a solid case could also be made for including Sessu Hayakawa who plays Col. Saito, the Japanese camp commander, in this draft as well. He plays a man for whom "face" is everything and he realizes that he's never going to get his bridge built without turning the construction over to Nicholson and the British POWs. His decision to give in to Nicholson is brilliant acting.

And that is the power of Guiness' Nicholson. He is will personified. He gets his Japanese captors to respect him and his men by unwavering devotion to duty as he sees it, even in the face of being told he's "aiding the enemy" by his officers. When he finally realizes his error as the commandos are trying to blow the bridge, it is heart-wrenching to see him say "What have I done?" and then he is shot and falls on the detonator, destroying his prize bridge. Simply a brilliant role, by a brilliant actor.

As for Sean Connery as James Bond, Connery WAS Bond. No one else came close. Does he stack up into a Tier 1 or 2? Absolutely not, but I think his portrayal of Bond was that of a man doing his duty, serving his country and having a damn good time doing both. He wasn't a cartoon like Roger Moore or a cipher like Brosnan, but a real man. And when you think of James Bond, isn't he the face you think of? I do, although that could be generational as Goldfinger was one of the first "adult" movies I got to see back in the day.

Anyway, very good job on the tiers for acting, which is defintely one of the most difficult possible.

 

[Abrantes]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven't already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Maybe I should watch this again, but I don't think I "got" it the first time. Maybe there was just too much hype.

 

[Fennis]

AMC? Yeah, lot of good movies on that channel the next few weeks (Sophie's Choice and a bunch of other Streep movies next week).

I've never seen Sophie's Choice...is this a movie I should I make an effort to see?

Yes. And if you don't have your heart crushed at the dramatic climax of the movie then you aren't human.

What if he can only watch one of Sophie's Choice or Kramer vs Kramer, what should he do then?You nee to rank Dr. Who as a TV show for thatguy.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

AMC? Yeah, lot of good movies on that channel the next few weeks (Sophie's Choice and a bunch of other Streep movies next week).

I've never seen Sophie's Choice...is this a movie I should I make an effort to see?

Yes. And if you don't have your heart crushed at the dramatic climax of the movie then you aren't human.

What if he can only watch one of Sophie's Choice or Kramer vs Kramer, what should he do then?You nee to rank Dr. Who as a TV show for thatguy.

Sophie's Choice.Dr. Who.... the original or that thing they are calling a remake?

 

[DCThunder]

AMC? Yeah, lot of good movies on that channel the next few weeks (Sophie's Choice and a bunch of other Streep movies next week).

I've never seen Sophie's Choice...is this a movie I should I make an effort to see?

Yes. And if you don't have your heart crushed at the dramatic climax of the movie then you aren't human.

What if he can only watch one of Sophie's Choice or Kramer vs Kramer, what should he do then?You nee to rank Dr. Who as a TV show for thatguy.

Sophie's Choice.Dr. Who.... the original or that thing they are calling a remake?

What about the one where the dingo ate her baaa-bee?

 

[Fennis]

AMC? Yeah, lot of good movies on that channel the next few weeks (Sophie's Choice and a bunch of other Streep movies next week).

I've never seen Sophie's Choice...is this a movie I should I make an effort to see?

Yes. And if you don't have your heart crushed at the dramatic climax of the movie then you aren't human.

What if he can only watch one of Sophie's Choice or Kramer vs Kramer, what should he do then?You nee to rank Dr. Who as a TV show for thatguy.

Sophie's Choice.Dr. Who.... the original or that thing they are calling a remake?

If I can separate them.... the original. BTW, my movie "dilemna" was supposed to be a "sophie's choice".

 

[timschochet]

What about the one where the dingo ate her baaa-bee?

Deengos ite my baaya bee!

 

[jmp]

Fourth of all, you have made great contributions to this draft on behalf of MisfitBlondes (just about his only good picks, IMO) so I don't understand why you are lowering yourself by trying to make this argument.

However, since you are on his team, I interpret this argument as an appeal, so I will ask Krista and Rodg to come in and give their opinions.

(I predict that if Krista or Rodg agree with me, we will then get the following post from MisfitBlondes:

That's my pick and I'm not changing it. Tim just has an ego problem and he's jealous of me.... etc.)

Tim, just curious, which of my picks you did you really like?

There's been so many picks since then, I honestly can't remember. I do remember thinking that you had a few picks I really liked. If you list your picks, I can tell you.

Building/Structure The Colosseum (Amphitheatrum Flavium)Poem The Iliad

Painting Starry Night

Scientific Discovery Laws of Motion

Novel The Great Gatsby

Invention Anesthesia

Scientific Discovery Structure of DNA

Acting Performance The Passion of Joan of Arc

Sculpture Nike of Samothrace

Non-fiction Book Diary of a Young Girl

Play The Crucible

Invention Laser

Song Amazing Grace

Political Document United Nations Charter

Non-fiction Book I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings

Novel The Sound and the Fury

Album Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols

Album It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

Building/Structure Sydney Opera House

Movie The Shawshank Redemption

Documentary When We Were Kings

Wildcard WrestleMania I

Non-fiction Book American Dictionary of the English Language

Novel Lord of the Flies

Non-fiction Book Dianetics

Composition Carmina Burana

Novel Native Son

Album Master of Puppets

Novel The Picture of Dorian Gray

Play The Rocky Horror Show

Wildcard Live Aid (Multi-venue Rock concert)

Painting Untitled (Skull)

Non-fiction Book The Guinness Book of World Records

Invention The Olympic Games

Acting Performance Anton Chigurh in No Country for Old Men

Acting Performance Capt. Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean

Movie The Deer Hunter

Movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Short Story An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge

T.V. Show Cheers

Wildcard The Underground Railroad

Poem Annabel Lee

Acting Performance Randy "The Ram" Robinson

Building/Structure Hoover Dam

Painting Waterfall

Play Rent

Play Play

Sports Record Consuming 66 Hot Dogs and Buns in 12 Minutes

Movie The Exorcist

Building/Structure Alcatraz

T.V. Show The Mary Tyler Moore Show

Invention Sliced Bread

Scientific Discovery Binary Numeral System

Composition Shine On You Crazy Diamond

Song Wish You Were Here

Song Greensleeves

Invention Comedy

Composition Romeo and Juliet

Play Phedre

Philosophical/Political Idea Scientism

 

[rodg12]

Tim -

What was your ranking of Krista's documentary "Hoop Dreams"?

 

[timschochet]

Tim -What was your ranking of Krista's documentary "Hoop Dreams"?

20

 

[timschochet]

Fourth of all, you have made great contributions to this draft on behalf of MisfitBlondes (just about his only good picks, IMO) so I don't understand why you are lowering yourself by trying to make this argument.

However, since you are on his team, I interpret this argument as an appeal, so I will ask Krista and Rodg to come in and give their opinions.

(I predict that if Krista or Rodg agree with me, we will then get the following post from MisfitBlondes:

That's my pick and I'm not changing it. Tim just has an ego problem and he's jealous of me.... etc.)

Tim, just curious, which of my picks you did you really like?

There's been so many picks since then, I honestly can't remember. I do remember thinking that you had a few picks I really liked. If you list your picks, I can tell you.

Building/Structure The Colosseum (Amphitheatrum Flavium)Poem The Iliad

Painting Starry Night

Scientific Discovery Laws of Motion

Novel The Great Gatsby

Invention Anesthesia

Scientific Discovery Structure of DNA

Acting Performance The Passion of Joan of Arc

Sculpture Nike of Samothrace

Non-fiction Book Diary of a Young Girl

Play The Crucible

Invention Laser

Song Amazing Grace

Political Document United Nations Charter

Non-fiction Book I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings

Novel The Sound and the Fury

Album Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols

Album It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

Building/Structure Sydney Opera House

Movie The Shawshank Redemption

Documentary When We Were Kings

Wildcard WrestleMania I

Non-fiction Book American Dictionary of the English Language

Novel Lord of the Flies

Non-fiction Book Dianetics

Composition Carmina Burana

Novel Native Son

Album Master of Puppets

Novel The Picture of Dorian Gray

Play The Rocky Horror Show

Wildcard Live Aid (Multi-venue Rock concert)

Painting Untitled (Skull)

Non-fiction Book The Guinness Book of World Records

Invention The Olympic Games

Acting Performance Anton Chigurh in No Country for Old Men

Acting Performance Capt. Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean

Movie The Deer Hunter

Movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Short Story An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge

T.V. Show Cheers

Wildcard The Underground Railroad

Poem Annabel Lee

Acting Performance Randy "The Ram" Robinson

Building/Structure Hoover Dam

Painting Waterfall

Play Rent

Play Play

Sports Record Consuming 66 Hot Dogs and Buns in 12 Minutes

Movie The Exorcist

Building/Structure Alcatraz

T.V. Show The Mary Tyler Moore Show

Invention Sliced Bread

Scientific Discovery Binary Numeral System

Composition Shine On You Crazy Diamond

Song Wish You Were Here

Song Greensleeves

Invention Comedy

Composition Romeo and Juliet

Play Phedre

Philosophical/Political Idea Scientism

Which ones were yours?

 

[BobbyLayne]

Tim -What was your ranking of Krista's documentary "Hoop Dreams"?

20

Too low

 

[krista4]

Final Ranking for Plays (excluding my plays and MisfitBlondes):

20 pts

Hamlet

Oedipus Rex

Romeo And Juliet

King Lear

19 pts

The Cherry Orchard

Waiting for Godot

Pygmalion

Faust Pt 1

18 Points

A Midsummer Night’s Dream

Othello

Julius Caesar

Death of A Salesman

17 pts

Long Days Journey Into Night

A Doll’s House

The Glass Menagerie

The Importance of Being Earnest

16 pts

Electra

Prometheus Bound

A Streetcar Named Desire

Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolff?

15 pts

Antigone

Richard III

The Merchant of Venice

Tartuffe

Mother Courage and Her Children

14 pts

Doctor Faustus

Three Sisters

The Tempest

Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

13 pts

My Fair Lady

Henry V

The Threepenny Opera

Twelfth Night

12 pts

Angels In America

The Alchemist

Antony and Cleopatra

Cyrano

11 pts

The Birthday Party

Our Town

Richard II

Medea

Amadeus

10 pts

Glengarry Glen Ross

Oklahoma!

The Recognition of Shan####ala

Marat/Sade

An Enemy of the People

9 pts

Six Characters In Search of An Author

The Bachhae

South Pacific

Lysistrata

The Orestiea

8 pts

The Miracle Worker

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

The Knights

A Chorus Line

Jesus Christ Superstar

7 pts

Titus Adronicus

An Ideal Husband

Arms and the Man

West Side Story

Fiddler on The Roof

6 pts

Edward II

The Caucasian Chalk Circle

Les Miserables

Phantom of The Opera

5 pts

Volpone

La Vida Es Sueno

Arcadia

True West

L' Misanthrope

The Skin of Our Teeth

4 pts

Driving Miss Daisy

Brighton Beach Memoirs

HMS Pinafore

The Mousetrap

The Music Man

The Odd Couple

3 pts

Gypsy

Chicago

Cats

The Sound of Music

2 pts

Grease

Tamburlaine The Great

Showboat

The Producers

1 pt

Chess

1776

Tommy

Everyman

Quoting so that I can find it later to insert tim's and MfB's into the list.tim, you can go ahead and give Macbeth a 20. Will study and think about the rest.