Official Great Works Draft (3 Viewers)

[krista4]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven't already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Juliette Binoche in Three Colors: Blue (1993). Here's how great Binoche has been - there are at least five roles since Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988) that could have been drafted.

Binoche is so quiet in her performances that she can get overlooked, but she is just fantastic.Oldboy--great movie and great performance.

BTW, BobbyLayne, your pick for thatguy's movie is not available on Netflix, so I hadn't put it in my queue though you mentioned it a couple of months ago. I'll see if my local quirky artsy-fartsy place, Facets, has it.

 

[rodg12]

Just a heads up, I'm keeping track of the judges rankings on an Excel spreadsheet to determine who's getting the most points. If you want this posted at some point, let me know.

 

[Fennis]

Just a heads up, I'm keeping track of the judges rankings on an Excel spreadsheet to determine who's getting the most points. If you want this posted at some point, let me know.

yes please

 

[rodg12]

Just a heads up, I'm keeping track of the judges rankings on an Excel spreadsheet to determine who's getting the most points. If you want this posted at some point, let me know.

yes please

OK. I'll wait for Krista to rank all of Tim and MfB's plays, then I'll post them.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Political / Philosophical Ideas Rankings:

1. Discourse on the Method - 20 pts.

The foundation for the evolution of all modern scientific thought. A perfect pick for the category.

2. Free Markets - 19 pts.

Clearly one of the most important foundations of economic, political and social understanding and governance.

3. Common Law - 18 pts.

The rule rule of law on a day by day basis resides here for much of the western world. Constitutions and laws can only stretch so far and be so well written and it is up to the daily administration of justice to fill in the inevitable gaps.

4. Natural Rights (Inalienable Rights of Man) - 17 pts

The ideal that some rights are not granted by law or man but occur naturally and are to be protected above all else. A very significant break from the idea that the king or pharoah or monarch is the total ruler and provider of all and a cornerstone of much of modern political thought.

5. Republicanism - 16 pts

Though the exact definition of this depends on the people and culture, the method of ruling the people through some form of elections of leaders who then direct government and policy is democratic ideal that in some ways perfects the democratic vision in that it can protect the minority if functioning properly. Unlike the mob mentality that can always control a democratic process, the republican process allows some form of pause from that wave of power that could engulf a nation.

6. Democracy - 15

Government of the people. A pretty powerful concept. Many would put this above republicanism and may even put it above all the others. The truth is that many of these ideals are variations on a theme and thus ranking them in a black and white list is going to be a problem no matter what I do. And so, I put this here.

The Social Contract - 14 pts

Each of us places his life under the supreme direction of the general will and each individual and an indivisible part of the whole. The king does not grant all rights, only the people collectively have that ultimate power. Another variation on a theme, but a very important one.

Ethics - 13 pts.

The philosophical investigation into the many forms of morality. I have a hard time ranking this any higher then the above ideals as they have behind them actual government structures and law and society to administer which is still the most compelling problem of mankind. The search for an understanding into the morality of men in this form might lead to some end game action, but not in comparison to those selections above.

Civil/Political Rights - 12 pts

The protections of the individual from the state. Another variation on a popular theme. I begin to wonder what this list might look like if we all lived in Japan....

Tao - 11 pts

It is everything about everything; an understanding of all that can be understood and even things that cannot. It is the true nature of the world to Taoists and something that explains the universe as a whole. And it's got the cool Ying/Yang thing going for it.

Separation of Church and State - 10 pts

The governmental structure that removes theological "law" from governance and separates the church from the police power of government. In that separation lies religious freedom and tolerance and protects the people from theocratic dogma igniting the masses throughout all government functions.

Nonviolence - 9 pts

Did I mention I watched Ghandi again last night? Seriously, this might be one of the most courageous forms of revolution man ever attempted. A truly remarkable method of dissent that will almost always show the aggressor to be much less then it thought it was.

Rationalism - 8 pts

The quest for reason to be the source of all knowledge.

Existentialism - 7 pts

I was going to write a long review for this one, but what's the point?

The Ethic of Reciprocity (The Golden Rule) - 6 pts

Do onto others and you would have them do onto you. To this day, imagine if this was the supreme law of all lands.

Dialectic - 5 pts

A very important form of questioning and debating and discussing a point. It is pretty much the only form of argument used in any meaningful conversation.

Feminism - 4 pts

The political movement for women's rights and other offshoots of that ideal. A fairly recent phenomenon of itself, the actual quest for female equality was begun long before the political movement was created.

Scientism - 3 pts

The belief that science is the "God" of all; all understanding, religion, knowledge, etc. A movement highlighted by Matt Parker and Trey Stone.

We are missing one pick from Abrantes I believe so I reserve the right to revise these accordingly but this order has been the best set one I've come up with so far.

My selection for the category - The Separation of Powers, (Executive, Legislative, Judicial)

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I'm leaving for court in a few minutes and probably won't be back all day. So, if there are comments I'm not ignoring them......

 

[BobbyLayne]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven't already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Juliette Binoche in Three Colors: Blue (1993). Here's how great Binoche has been - there are at least five roles since Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988) that could have been drafted.

Binoche is so quiet in her performances that she can get overlooked, but she is just fantastic.Oldboy--great movie and great performance.

BTW, BobbyLayne, your pick for thatguy's movie is not available on Netflix, so I hadn't put it in my queue though you mentioned it a couple of months ago. I'll see if my local quirky artsy-fartsy place, Facets, has it.

Doubt it:

This movie has not been released on DVD. Future availability is not guaranteed.

Gip deal...saw it on Netflix and totally missed that disclaimer. Quite a few YouTube clips up but none have subtitles (how fluent are you).$29.99 on Amazon - and it probably won't play

Region 4 encoding (This DVD will not play on most DVD players sold in the US or Canada [Region 1]. This item requires a region specific or multi-region DVD player and compatible TV.)

Crap...Asian Film Festival is going on this week, let me check a little shop here that has a lot of bootlegs; maybe I can burn you one. They got me a copy of Wong Kar-wai's 2046 like 2 months before it was shown at Cannes (of course the menu was in Cantonese so that toook a while to navigate...).

 

[krista4]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven\'t already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Juliette Binoche in Three Colors: Blue (1993). Here\'s how great Binoche has been - there are at least five roles since Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988) that could have been drafted.

Binoche is so quiet in her performances that she can get overlooked, but she is just fantastic.Oldboy--great movie and great performance.

BTW, BobbyLayne, your pick for thatguy\'s movie is not available on Netflix, so I hadn\'t put it in my queue though you mentioned it a couple of months ago. I\'ll see if my local quirky artsy-fartsy place, Facets, has it.

Doubt it:

Crap...Asian Film Festival is going on this week, let me check a little shop here that has a lot of bootlegs; maybe I can burn you one. They got me a copy of Wong Kar-wai\'s 2046 like 2 months before it was shown at Cannes (of course the menu was in Cantonese so that toook a while to navigate...).

Looks like they have it: Woo-hoo. I\'ll try to get it this weekend.ETA: Maybe not.

Features: IMPORT. Requires a multi-standard (PAL/NTSC) DVD player, or a region-free or region 2 compatible player with a multi-standard (PAL/NTSC) television. Includes trailers; TV spots; two audio commentaries; cast and staff profiles.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven't already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Maybe I should watch this again, but I don't think I "got" it the first time. Maybe there was just too much hype.

Well, let's face it...the reason it won Cannes that year is Tarantino was chairing the committee.

I thought it was incredibly powerful. The guy who played the lead was pitch perfect, and I loved how the story unfolded slowly. The only real knock on it in my book is it gets lost in the gazillion Korean gansta/revenge moves that have come out in the last 8-10 years (this is the middle movie of a revenge trilogy he did).

Park has a new movie out this year called Thirst that won the jury prize at Cannes this year. U.S.A. release is scheduled to be July 31, but it will be the Film Society of Lincoln Center July 20 (Monday).

 

[BobbyLayne]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven\'t already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Juliette Binoche in Three Colors: Blue (1993). Here\'s how great Binoche has been - there are at least five roles since Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988) that could have been drafted.

Binoche is so quiet in her performances that she can get overlooked, but she is just fantastic.Oldboy--great movie and great performance.

BTW, BobbyLayne, your pick for thatguy\'s movie is not available on Netflix, so I hadn\'t put it in my queue though you mentioned it a couple of months ago. I\'ll see if my local quirky artsy-fartsy place, Facets, has it.

Doubt it:

Crap...Asian Film Festival is going on this week, let me check a little shop here that has a lot of bootlegs; maybe I can burn you one. They got me a copy of Wong Kar-wai\'s 2046 like 2 months before it was shown at Cannes (of course the menu was in Cantonese so that toook a while to navigate...).

Looks like they have it: Woo-hoo. I\'ll try to get it this weekend.ETA: Maybe not.

Features: IMPORT. Requires a multi-standard (PAL/NTSC) DVD player, or a region-free or region 2 compatible player with a multi-standard (PAL/NTSC) television. Includes trailers; TV spots; two audio commentaries; cast and staff profiles.

Guess it wasn't meant to be.

I'll keep my eye open for a copy here. If I can find it cheap I'll make a copy for ya.

 

[krista4]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven't already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Maybe I should watch this again, but I don't think I "got" it the first time. Maybe there was just too much hype.

Well, let's face it...the reason it won Cannes that year is Tarantino was chairing the committee.

I thought it was incredibly powerful. The guy who played the lead was pitch perfect, and I loved how the story unfolded slowly. The only real knock on it in my book is it gets lost in the gazillion Korean gansta/revenge moves that have come out in the last 8-10 years (this is the middle movie of a revenge trilogy he did).

Park has a new movie out this year called Thirst that won the jury prize at Cannes this year. U.S.A. release is scheduled to be July 31, but it will be the Film Society of Lincoln Center July 20 (Monday).

Not Korean but Hong Kong, but have you guys seen Election and Triad Election? Similar style, I think, and also hits at Cannes and the other festivals. They're on their way to me from Netflix right now.

 

[krista4]

Guess it wasn't meant to be.I'll keep my eye open for a copy here. If I can find it cheap I'll make a copy for ya.

My ex-husband has a region-free DVD player; maybe I can go over and watch it at his house.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Did Kagemusha get drafted?

Watching that at a film retrospective at BAM next month.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Another movie and another acting performances I strongly considered:

Oldboy (Korea 2003) by Park Chan-wook - won the Grand Prix at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. If you haven't already, rent it sometime this year (before the Spielberg/Will Smith abortion comes out next year).

Maybe I should watch this again, but I don't think I "got" it the first time. Maybe there was just too much hype.

Well, let's face it...the reason it won Cannes that year is Tarantino was chairing the committee.

I thought it was incredibly powerful. The guy who played the lead was pitch perfect, and I loved how the story unfolded slowly. The only real knock on it in my book is it gets lost in the gazillion Korean gansta/revenge moves that have come out in the last 8-10 years (this is the middle movie of a revenge trilogy he did).

Park has a new movie out this year called Thirst that won the jury prize at Cannes this year. U.S.A. release is scheduled to be July 31, but it will be the Film Society of Lincoln Center July 20 (Monday).

Not Korean but Hong Kong, but have you guys seen Election and Triad Election? Similar style, I think, and also hits at Cannes and the other festivals. They're on their way to me from Netflix right now.

Saw Election but not the sequel.

 

[krista4]

Did Kagemusha get drafted?

Watching that at a film retrospective at BAM next month.

No. You might want to substitute that in for the other flick. If I can't see it, I can't rate it very well. :(

 

[Fennis]

Guess it wasn't meant to be.I'll keep my eye open for a copy here. If I can find it cheap I'll make a copy for ya.

My ex-husband has a region-free DVD player; maybe I can go over and watch it at his house.

Will OH kick his ### if you do that? SOunds like a very NPR type fight... "Keep you non-green, region-free DVD player away from my life partner!"

 

[Abrantes]

Did Kagemusha get drafted?

Watching that at a film retrospective at BAM next month.

Kagemusha is absolutely awesome.

 

[rodg12]

Guess it wasn't meant to be.I'll keep my eye open for a copy here. If I can find it cheap I'll make a copy for ya.

My ex-husband has a region-free DVD player; maybe I can go over and watch it at his house.

Will OH kick his ### if you do that? SOunds like a very NPR type fight... "Keep you non-green, region-free DVD player away from my life partner!"

 

[BobbyLayne]

Good idea, Krista4.

rodg12/timschochet - Please replace Always: Sunset on Third Street with Kagemusha as thatguy's final movie pick.

Kagemusha (影武者?) is a 1980 film by Akira Kurosawa. The title (which literally translates to "Shadow Warrior" in Japanese) is a term used for an impersonator. It is set in the Warring States era of Japanese history and tells the story of a lower-class criminal who is taught to impersonate a dying warlord in order to dissuade opposing lords from attacking the newly vulnerable clan. The warlord whom the kagemusha impersonates is based on daimyo Takeda Shingen and the climactic 1575 Battle of Nagashino.

Plot

The film opens with a shot of what appears to be three identical Shingens. One really is Shingen, the second is his brother, Nobukado. The third man is a thief whom Nobukado accidentally came across and spared from crucifixion, believing the thief's uncanny resemblance to Shingen would prove useful. Shingen agrees that he would prove useful as a double and they decide to use the thief as a kagemusha.

Shingen's army has besieged a castle of Tokugawa Ieyasu. When Shingen visits the battlefield to hear a mysterious nightly flute player, he is shot by a sniper. Mortally wounded, he orders his generals to keep his death a secret for three years. Shingen later dies while being carried over a mountain pass, with only a small group of witnesses.

Nobukado presents the thief to the generals and contrives a plan to have this kagemusha impersonate Shingen full-time. At first, even the thief is unaware of Shingen's death, until he tries to break into a huge jar, believing it to contain treasure, and instead finds Shingen's preserved corpse. After this act, the generals decide they cannot trust the thief and set him free.

The Takeda leaders secretly dump the jar with Shingen's corpse into Lake Suwa. Spies working for Tokugawa and his ally, Oda Nobunaga witness the disposal of the jar, and suspect that Shingen has died and go to report the death. The thief, however, overhearing the spies, goes to offer his services hoping to be of some use to Shingen in death. The Takeda clan preserves the cover-up by saying they were making an offering of sake to the god of the lake.

The spies follow the Takeda army as they march home from the siege. Although they suspect that Shingen has died, they are later convinced by the kagemusha's performance.

Returning home, the kagemusha successfully fools Shingen's concubines and grandson. By imitating Shingen's gestures and learning more about him, the kagemusha begins to take on the persona of Shingen, and is able to awe even the bodyguards and wakashu who knew Shingen best. When he must preside over a clan council, and is unexpectedly asked for his decision on a military matter, he cleverly relies on the clan motto, which identifies Shingen with an unmoving mountain.

When Tokugawa and Oda Nobunaga launch an attack against the territory of the Takeda clan, Shingen's son, Katsuyori, launches a counterattack against the advice of other generals. The kagemusha is forced to lead reinforcements to the Battle of Takatenjin, and helps inspire the troops to victory.

In a fit of overconfidence, the kagemusha attempts to ride Shingen's spirited horse. When he falls off those who rush to help him see that he does not have their lord's battle scars and he is revealed as an impostor. The thief is driven out of the palace, and Katsuyori, despite being disinherited, takes over the clan.

In full control of the Takeda army, Katsuyori leads an ill-advised attack against Oda Nobunaga, who controls Kyoto, resulting in the Battle of Nagashino. Wave after wave of cavalry and infantry are cut down by volleys of matchlock fire, effectively wiping out the Takeda. During this scene, much of the battle is offscreen. Although the charge of the Takeda army and the volley of fire from Nobunaga's soldiers is seen, the actual death of the Takeda men is not shown until the battle is over and the viewer sees a vast scene of carnage as more time is given to the aftermath. (In reality, the clan continued under Katsuyori's leadership for years after the battle). The kagemusha, who has followed the Takeda army, witnesses the slaughter. In a final show of loyalty, he takes up a lance and makes a futile charge against Oda's fortifications, ultimately dying for the Takeda clan. The final image is of the kagemusha's bullet-riddled body being washed away down a river, next to the flag of the Takeda clan.

Production

George Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola are credited at the end of the film as executive producers in the international version. This is because they convinced 20th Century Fox to make up a shortfall in the film's budget when the original producers, Toho Studios, could not afford to complete the film. In return, 20th Century Fox received the international distribution rights to the film.

Kurosawa originally cast the boisterous comic actor Shintaro Katsu in the title role. Katsu left the production, however, before the first day of shooting was over; in an interview for the Criterion Collection DVD, executive producer Coppola states that Katsu angered Kurosawa by arriving with his own camera crew to record Kurosawa's filmmaking methods. It is unclear whether Katsu was fired or left of his own accord, but he was replaced by Tatsuya Nakadai, a well-known actor who had appeared in a number of Kurosawa's previous films. Nakadai played both the kagemusha and the lord whom he impersonated.

Kurosawa wrote a part in Kagemusha for his longtime regular actor Takashi Shimura, and Kagemusha was the last Kurosawa film in which Shimura appeared. However, the scene in which he plays a doctor consulting with Shingen's advisors was cut from the western release of the film. The Criterion Collection DVD release of the film restored this scene as well as approximately another twenty minutes worth of footage which had not been seen previously in the west, most notably a scene where Uesugi Kenshin makes his only appearance in the film.

According to Lucas, Kurosawa used 5000 extras for the final battle sequence, filming for a whole day, then he cut it down to 90 seconds in the final release. Many beautiful special effects, and a number of scenes that filled holes in the story, landed on the "cutting-room floor."

Awards

At the 1980 Cannes Film Festival, Kagemusha shared the Palme d'Or with All That Jazz.[2] Kagemusha was nominated for two Academy Awards (Best Art Direction (Yoshirô Muraki) and Best Foreign Language Film).[3] The film won the César Award in 1981 for Best Foreign Film.

Academy Awards (USA)

Nominated: Best Art Direction (Yoshirô Muraki)

Nominated: Best Foreign Language Film

BAFTA Awards (UK)

Won: Best Costume Design (Seiichiro Momosawa)

Won: Best Direction (Akira Kurosawa)

Nominated: Best Cinematography (Takao Saitô and Masaharu Ueda)

Nominated: Best Film

Cannes Film Festival (France)

Won: Golden Palm (tied with All That Jazz)

César Awards (France)

Won: Best Foreign Film

David di Donatello Awards (Italy)

Won: Best Director - Foreign Film (Akira Kurosawa)

Won: Best Producer - Foreign Film (Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas; tied with Hungaro Film for Angi Vera)

Golden Globe Awards (USA)

Nominated: Best Foreign Film

 

[krista4]

Good idea, Krista4.

Nice. I think that also means Kurosawa ties Hitchcock for most films drafted (five). I think Spielberg had three--E.T., Jaws, and Schindler's List. Am I missing any?

 

[Abrantes]

Good idea, Krista4.

rodg12/timschochet - Please replace Always: Sunset on Third Street with Kagemusha as thatguy's final movie pick.

 

[krista4]

Guess it wasn't meant to be.I'll keep my eye open for a copy here. If I can find it cheap I'll make a copy for ya.

My ex-husband has a region-free DVD player; maybe I can go over and watch it at his house.

Will OH kick his ### if you do that? SOunds like a very NPR type fight... "Keep you non-green, region-free DVD player away from my life partner!"

It would probably end in a poetry-off.

 

[sinatravolta]

My comments inserted within your quote:

Initial movie tiers. These are very much open to comment. I've moved things around so many times my head is spinning. The listings within the tiers are not in order:

Tier 1:

Citizen Kane

Casablanca

The Godfather

Seven Samurai

The Battleship Potemkin

Vertigo

Rear Window (this is the one I once referred to early on that hadn't been drafted that I view as one of my top 4)

Singin’ in the Rain

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

The Rules of the Game

Chinatown

The Third Man

City Lights

Schindler’s List (too high - to me this one is an example of subject matter making a film more critically acclaimed than it otherwise would be)

2001: A Space Odyssey

Bicycle Thieves

Dr Strangelove

The Wizard of Oz

Modern Times

The Searchers

Tier 2:

Lawrence of Arabia

Aguirre, The Wrath of God

The Battle of Algiers (I think this is too high)

M

North by Northwest (I love Hitchcock but I'd probably move this to tier 3)

Star Wars

The Godfather, Part II

Some Like It Hot

Gone with the Wind

Raging Bull

Psycho

Blade Runner

Pulp Fiction

The Gold Rush

Apocalypse Now

It’s a Wonderful Life

On the Waterfront (I would put this in tier 1)

Sunset Boulevard (not a fan - would move to tier 3)

The Silence of the Lambs

Unforgiven

Tier 3: wow - Tier 3 is still filled with great ####### movies! Shawshank, Last Picture Show, Empire Strikes Back, Graduate, Cinema Paradiso, Ikiru I could all see moving up!

E.T.

Jaws

Rocky

The Shawshank Redemption

Notorious

The Last Picture Show

Ben-Hur

The Empire Strikes Back

The Graduate

Ikiru

The Deer Hunter

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

Throne of Blood

Cinema Paradiso

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

Through a Glass Darkly

The Exorcist

Midnight Express

The Maltese Falcon

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

The Outlaw Josie Wales

12 Angry Men

Tier 4: I think you did well with this tier.

Castle in the Sky

Gettysburg

The Longest Day

Reservoir Dogs

Scarface

Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Alien

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

The Jazz Singer

The Sting

Die Hard

Pinocchio

The Usual Suspects

Patton

You already pointed out that Best Years of Our Lives should probably have been taken. I am disappointed nobody took All About Eve. Unbelieveable script. Fantastic acting performances by Bette Davis and George Sanders. Nominated for 14 oscars and won 6. This is my other top 4 pick (with Godfather, Casablanca and Rear Window). Other movies that weren't taken that could have been: The Big Sleep, Double Indemnity.

 

[krista4]

My comments inserted within your quote:

Rear Window (this is the one I once referred to early on that hadn't been drafted that I view as one of my top 4)

I rewatched both this and Vertigo the other night, and was blown away by Rear Window. I had forgotten just how amazing it is.

Schindler’s List (too high - to me this one is an example of subject matter making a film more critically acclaimed than it otherwise would be)

This was a last-minute move from Tier 2 to Tier 1. I was rethinking this one last night, and while I agree with you that the subject matter is a large part of what makes it acclaimed, the acting is impeccable as well. And I'm not sure that subject matter shouldn't be taken into account. I don't know; struggling with the placement of this one.

The Battle of Algiers (I think this is too high)

Noted. I'll think about it. Probably low Tier 2 but I'm not sure I could put it lower than that.

North by Northwest (I love Hitchcock but I'd probably move this to tier 3)

See The Battle of Algiers.

On the Waterfront (I would put this in tier 1)

High Tier 2 at worst.

Sunset Boulevard (not a fan - would move to tier 3)

Would love to.

Tier 3: wow - Tier 3 is still filled with great ####### movies! Shawshank, Last Picture Show, Empire Strikes Back, Graduate, Cinema Paradiso, Ikiru I could all see moving up!

I agree with all of the ones you've named as possible Tier 2s.

You already pointed out that Best Years of Our Lives should probably have been taken. I am disappointed nobody took All About Eve. Unbelieveable script. Fantastic acting performances by Bette Davis and George Sanders. Nominated for 14 oscars and won 6. This is my other top 4 pick (with Godfather, Casablanca and Rear Window). Other movies that weren't taken that could have been: The Big Sleep, Double Indemnity.

Thanks for the comments, which were very helpful.

 

[Abrantes]

As far as movies that could've been taken, here's what I still wanted to take:

Grand Illusion - I love Jean Renoir.

Nashville - It's absolutely criminal that no Altman movies were taken. That's just so wrong. This one is just a riot from beginning to end. Amazing film.

The General - The almost complete lack of Buster Keaton is also very sad.

Duck Soup - As I said earlier, one of my top candidates for best comedy ever.

Divorce - Italian Style - Totally different from Duck Soup, but also hilarious.

Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu is a giant in Japanese cinema, and although his style is as different from Kurosawa's as it gets, he's just as incredible with his personal narratives.

Brazil - Gilliam's one of my favorite directors, and this is as mad and awesome as he gets.

Nosferatu - Just way too cool for words. German Expressionist films are ####### sweet.

Heaven Can Wait - Perfect in concept and execution, with a gentleness and light-hearted touch that's rarely seen nowadays.

 

[Postradamus]

I agree that tim's plays are ranked pretty fairly. good work

 

[DCThunder]

You already pointed out that Best Years of Our Lives should probably have been taken. I am disappointed nobody took All About Eve. Unbelieveable script. Fantastic acting performances by Bette Davis and George Sanders. Nominated for 14 oscars and won 6. This is my other top 4 pick (with Godfather, Casablanca and Rear Window). Other movies that weren't taken that could have been: The Big Sleep, Double Indemnity.

I agree with you regarding "All About Eve", I simply forgot about that flick. And the mention of Double Indemnity ( I assume you mean the Barbara Stanwyck, Fred MacMurray version directed by Billy Wilder) brings to mind another flim I thought about, "Body Heat", with Kathleen Turner and William Hurt and Lawrence Kasadan directing. Anybody who hasn't seen tht film should make it a point to do so.And speaking of Billy Wilder, "Stalag 17" is also an excellent WWII movie about German POW camps, much different in feel than something like The Great Escape. William Holden, cast against type, won a Best Actor Oscar for his role as a cynical POW accused of being a spy for the Germans in the camp.

 

[krista4]

As far as movies that could've been taken, here's what I still wanted to take:

Grand Illusion - I love Jean Renoir.

Nashville - It's absolutely criminal that no Altman movies were taken. That's just so wrong. This one is just a riot from beginning to end. Amazing film.

The General - The almost complete lack of Buster Keaton is also very sad.

Duck Soup - As I said earlier, one of my top candidates for best comedy ever.

Divorce - Italian Style - Totally different from Duck Soup, but also hilarious.

Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu is a giant in Japanese cinema, and although his style is as different from Kurosawa's as it gets, he's just as incredible with his personal narratives.

Brazil - Gilliam's one of my favorite directors, and this is as mad and awesome as he gets.

Nosferatu - Just way too cool for words. German Expressionist films are ####### sweet.

Heaven Can Wait - Perfect in concept and execution, with a gentleness and light-hearted touch that's rarely seen nowadays.

I was very surprised at The General and Tokyo Story not being taken. Both are regularly near the top of lists of all-time great movies. Can't say I loved Tokyo Story--I guess I'm just a Kurosawa girl. But for it not to be taken was a shock.I have to say, I never thought I could Abrantes more, but the fact that you mentioned Heaven Can Wait just kills me. I blurted this out just a couple of days ago to OH as one of my favorite movies, to his great surprise. I never hear it mentioned as one of the best movies ever, but to me it is absolutely perfect.

 

[Genedoc]

Initial movie tiers. These are very much open to comment. I've moved things around so many times my head is spinning. The listings within the tiers are not in order:

Tier 1:

Citizen Kane

Casablanca

The Godfather

Seven Samurai

The Battleship Potemkin

Vertigo

Rear Window

Singin’ in the Rain

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs - Too high

The Rules of the Game

Chinatown

The Third Man

City Lights

Schindler’s List too high given some of the movies currently in tier 2

2001: A Space Odyssey - I think this is too high. It's dated and considering the competition would have no problem moving it to tier 2.

Bicycle Thieves

Dr Strangelove

The Wizard of Oz

Modern Times

The Searchers

Tier 2:

Lawrence of Arabia - Tier one ahead of any of the bolded above

Aguirre, The Wrath of God

The Battle of Algiers

M

North by Northwest

Star Wars

The Godfather, Part II

Some Like It Hot

Gone with the Wind

Raging Bull - Seems low given the AFI ranking and considering Sight/Sound directors have it tied with 2 tier 1's and ahead of several others.

Psycho

Blade Runner

Pulp Fiction

The Gold Rush

Apocalypse Now

It’s a Wonderful Life

On the Waterfront

Sunset Boulevard

The Silence of the Lambs

Unforgiven

Tier 3:

E.T.

Jaws

Rocky

The Shawshank Redemption

Notorious

The Last Picture Show

Ben-Hur

The Empire Strikes Back

The Graduate

Ikiru

The Deer Hunter

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

Throne of Blood

Cinema Paradiso

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

Through a Glass Darkly

The Exorcist

Midnight Express

The Maltese Falcon

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

The Outlaw Josie Wales

12 Angry Men

Tier 4:

Castle in the Sky

Gettysburg

The Longest Day

Reservoir Dogs

Scarface

Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Alien

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

The Jazz Singer

The Sting

Die Hard

Pinocchio

The Usual Suspects

Patton

Top notch judging job. Nothing seems more than a tier off. I inserted a couple of comments.

 

[DCThunder]

I was very surprised at The General and Tokyo Story not being taken. Both are regularly near the top of lists of all-time great movies. Can't say I loved Tokyo Story--I guess I'm just a Kurosawa girl. But for it not to be taken was a shock.

I have to say, I never thought I could Abrantes more, but the fact that you mentioned Heaven Can Wait just kills me. I blurted this out just a couple of days ago to OH as one of my favorite movies, to his great surprise. I never hear it mentioned as one of the best movies ever, but to me it is absolutely perfect.

You chicks just luuuuuv Warren Beatty. You like Shampoo too?

 

[Postradamus]

As far as movies that could've been taken, here's what I still wanted to take:

Grand Illusion - I love Jean Renoir.

Nashville - It's absolutely criminal that no Altman movies were taken. That's just so wrong. This one is just a riot from beginning to end. Amazing film.

The General - The almost complete lack of Buster Keaton is also very sad.

Duck Soup - As I said earlier, one of my top candidates for best comedy ever.

Divorce - Italian Style - Totally different from Duck Soup, but also hilarious.

Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu is a giant in Japanese cinema, and although his style is as different from Kurosawa's as it gets, he's just as incredible with his personal narratives.

Brazil - Gilliam's one of my favorite directors, and this is as mad and awesome as he gets.

Nosferatu - Just way too cool for words. German Expressionist films are ####### sweet.

Heaven Can Wait - Perfect in concept and execution, with a gentleness and light-hearted touch that's rarely seen nowadays.

these +Goodfellas

Toy Story

Birth of a Nation

High Noon

King Kong

The Wild Bunch...

list goes on.

 

[krista4]

Initial movie tiers. These are very much open to comment. I've moved things around so many times my head is spinning. The listings within the tiers are not in order:

Tier 1:

Citizen Kane

Casablanca

The Godfather

Seven Samurai

The Battleship Potemkin

Vertigo

Rear Window

Singin’ in the Rain

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs - Too high

The Rules of the Game

Chinatown

The Third Man

City Lights

Schindler’s List too high given some of the movies currently in tier 2

2001: A Space Odyssey - I think this is too high. It's dated and considering the competition would have no problem moving it to tier 2.

Bicycle Thieves

Dr Strangelove

The Wizard of Oz

Modern Times

The Searchers

Tier 2:

Lawrence of Arabia - Tier one ahead of any of the bolded above

Aguirre, The Wrath of God

The Battle of Algiers

M

North by Northwest

Star Wars

The Godfather, Part II

Some Like It Hot

Gone with the Wind

Raging Bull - Seems low given the AFI ranking and considering Sight/Sound directors have it tied with 2 tier 1's and ahead of several others.

Psycho

Blade Runner

Pulp Fiction

The Gold Rush

Apocalypse Now

It’s a Wonderful Life

On the Waterfront

Sunset Boulevard

The Silence of the Lambs

Unforgiven

Tier 3:

E.T.

Jaws

Rocky

The Shawshank Redemption

Notorious

The Last Picture Show

Ben-Hur

The Empire Strikes Back

The Graduate

Ikiru

The Deer Hunter

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

Throne of Blood

Cinema Paradiso

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

Through a Glass Darkly

The Exorcist

Midnight Express

The Maltese Falcon

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

The Outlaw Josie Wales

12 Angry Men

Tier 4:

Castle in the Sky

Gettysburg

The Longest Day

Reservoir Dogs

Scarface

Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Alien

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

The Jazz Singer

The Sting

Die Hard

Pinocchio

The Usual Suspects

Patton

Top notch judging job. Nothing seems more than a tier off. I inserted a couple of comments.

Thanks, Genedoc! Your partner had already successfully argued for moving Raging Bull into Tier 1, and I had also on my own decided to move Lawrence of Arabia up as well. Several people have now mentioned moving 2001 down, so I'll have to think more about that. Also considering Schindler's List again.I talked about the differences between AFI and Sight and Sound in an earlier post, but I take Sight and Sound's rating significantly more seriously than I do those of the AFI. In either case, though, I had Raging Bull and Lawrence of Arabia too low.

 

[krista4]

I was very surprised at The General and Tokyo Story not being taken. Both are regularly near the top of lists of all-time great movies. Can't say I loved Tokyo Story--I guess I'm just a Kurosawa girl. But for it not to be taken was a shock.

I have to say, I never thought I could Abrantes more, but the fact that you mentioned Heaven Can Wait just kills me. I blurted this out just a couple of days ago to OH as one of my favorite movies, to his great surprise. I never hear it mentioned as one of the best movies ever, but to me it is absolutely perfect.

You chicks just luuuuuv Warren Beatty. You like Shampoo too?

You've got to be kidding. Maybe if I were 65 years old, I'd love Warren Beatty.

 

[krista4]

As far as movies that could've been taken, here's what I still wanted to take:

Grand Illusion - I love Jean Renoir.

Nashville - It's absolutely criminal that no Altman movies were taken. That's just so wrong. This one is just a riot from beginning to end. Amazing film.

The General - The almost complete lack of Buster Keaton is also very sad.

Duck Soup - As I said earlier, one of my top candidates for best comedy ever.

Divorce - Italian Style - Totally different from Duck Soup, but also hilarious.

Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu is a giant in Japanese cinema, and although his style is as different from Kurosawa's as it gets, he's just as incredible with his personal narratives.

Brazil - Gilliam's one of my favorite directors, and this is as mad and awesome as he gets.

Nosferatu - Just way too cool for words. German Expressionist films are ####### sweet.

Heaven Can Wait - Perfect in concept and execution, with a gentleness and light-hearted touch that's rarely seen nowadays.

these +Goodfellas

Toy Story

Birth of a Nation

High Noon

King Kong

The Wild Bunch...

list goes on.

I kept looking over the list, SURE that Goodfellas must be on there. I like but don't love the movie, but on a messageboard full of guys, I thought this would be a slam dunk. Raiders of the Lost Ark, too.

 

[Uncle Humuna]

As far as movies that could've been taken, here's what I still wanted to take:

Grand Illusion - I love Jean Renoir.

Nashville - It's absolutely criminal that no Altman movies were taken. That's just so wrong. This one is just a riot from beginning to end. Amazing film.

The General - The almost complete lack of Buster Keaton is also very sad.

Duck Soup - As I said earlier, one of my top candidates for best comedy ever.

Divorce - Italian Style - Totally different from Duck Soup, but also hilarious.

Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu is a giant in Japanese cinema, and although his style is as different from Kurosawa's as it gets, he's just as incredible with his personal narratives.

Brazil - Gilliam's one of my favorite directors, and this is as mad and awesome as he gets.

Nosferatu - Just way too cool for words. German Expressionist films are ####### sweet.

Heaven Can Wait - Perfect in concept and execution, with a gentleness and light-hearted touch that's rarely seen nowadays.

these +Goodfellas

Toy Story

Birth of a Nation

High Noon

King Kong

The Wild Bunch...

list goes on.

Awesome list.2 of my faves - High Noon and The Wild Bunch

Was very close to taking either Rear Window or High Noon with my last pick (instead of Apocalypse Now).

Value wise, probably should have gone with Rear Window.

Favorite wise, can't believe I didn't take High Noon (I was too caught up in rounding out my team though, and couldn't stand the thought of having 2 westerns).

Funny how picling strategy changes throughout the draft (exception probably being Genedoc, who clearly had his eye on the prize for the whole draft).

Really glad I took favorites in many of the categories (although once again, kicking myself for not taking High Noon).

 

[Uncle Humuna]

Final Ranking for Plays (excluding my plays and MisfitBlondes):

20 pts

Hamlet

Oedipus Rex

Romeo And Juliet

King Lear

19 pts

The Cherry Orchard

Waiting for Godot

Pygmalion

Faust Pt 1

18 Points

A Midsummer Night’s Dream

Othello

Julius Caesar

Death of A Salesman

17 pts

Long Days Journey Into Night

A Doll’s House

The Glass Menagerie

The Importance of Being Earnest

16 pts

Electra

Prometheus Bound

A Streetcar Named Desire

Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolff?

15 pts

Antigone

Richard III

The Merchant of Venice

Tartuffe

Mother Courage and Her Children

14 pts

Doctor Faustus

Three Sisters

The Tempest

Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

13 pts

My Fair Lady

Henry V

The Threepenny Opera

Twelfth Night

12 pts

Angels In America

The Alchemist

Antony and Cleopatra

Cyrano

11 pts

The Birthday Party

Our Town

Richard II

Medea

Amadeus

10 pts

Glengarry Glen Ross

Oklahoma!

The Recognition of Shan####ala

Marat/Sade

An Enemy of the People

9 pts

Six Characters In Search of An Author

The Bachhae

South Pacific

Lysistrata

The Orestiea

8 pts

The Miracle Worker

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

The Knights

A Chorus Line

Jesus Christ Superstar

7 pts

Titus Adronicus

An Ideal Husband

Arms and the Man

West Side Story

Fiddler on The Roof

6 pts

Edward II

The Caucasian Chalk Circle

Les Miserables

Phantom of The Opera

5 pts

Volpone

La Vida Es Sueno

Arcadia

True West

L' Misanthrope

The Skin of Our Teeth

4 pts

Driving Miss Daisy

Brighton Beach Memoirs

HMS Pinafore

The Mousetrap

The Music Man

The Odd Couple

3 pts

Gypsy

Chicago

Cats

The Sound of Music

2 pts

Grease

Tamburlaine The Great

Showboat

The Producers

1 pt

Chess

1776

Tommy

Everyman

I've tried to shut my yapper about judging, since it's bound to be imperfect having only a single judge per category.(I think a panel of judges would have added an element of fairness, but it's a little late for that).

Overall, a good job.

I DO have to disagree with critically acclaimed classics getting demoted because you haven't seen them.

Would rather have seen you seek another opinion (even if that means published material).

One other yapper-spew, have to agree with the consensus that artists should not be penalized for being highly represented (i.e. Beatles).



:yappershut:

 

[DCThunder]

I was very surprised at The General and Tokyo Story not being taken. Both are regularly near the top of lists of all-time great movies. Can't say I loved Tokyo Story--I guess I'm just a Kurosawa girl. But for it not to be taken was a shock.

I have to say, I never thought I could Abrantes more, but the fact that you mentioned Heaven Can Wait just kills me. I blurted this out just a couple of days ago to OH as one of my favorite movies, to his great surprise. I never hear it mentioned as one of the best movies ever, but to me it is absolutely perfect.

You chicks just luuuuuv Warren Beatty. You like Shampoo too?

You've got to be kidding. Maybe if I were 65 years old, I'd love Warren Beatty.

Actually, Beatty has made some decent movies. "Reds", "Bugsy", "McCabe and Mrs Miller", "Bulworth", and of course "Bonnie and Clyde" (also not picked, right?)He's made some stinkeroos too, "Ishtar", "**** Tracy", "Shampoo" anyone?,

 

[Genedoc]

As far as movies that could've been taken, here's what I still wanted to take:

Grand Illusion - I love Jean Renoir.

Nashville - It's absolutely criminal that no Altman movies were taken. That's just so wrong. This one is just a riot from beginning to end. Amazing film.

The General - The almost complete lack of Buster Keaton is also very sad.

Duck Soup - As I said earlier, one of my top candidates for best comedy ever.

Divorce - Italian Style - Totally different from Duck Soup, but also hilarious.

Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu is a giant in Japanese cinema, and although his style is as different from Kurosawa's as it gets, he's just as incredible with his personal narratives.

Brazil - Gilliam's one of my favorite directors, and this is as mad and awesome as he gets.

Nosferatu - Just way too cool for words. German Expressionist films are ####### sweet.

Heaven Can Wait - Perfect in concept and execution, with a gentleness and light-hearted touch that's rarely seen nowadays.

these +Goodfellas

Toy Story

Birth of a Nation

High Noon

King Kong

The Wild Bunch...

list goes on.

Awesome list.2 of my faves - High Noon and The Wild Bunch

Was very close to taking either Rear Window or High Noon with my last pick (instead of Apocalypse Now).

Value wise, probably should have gone with Rear Window.

Favorite wise, can't believe I didn't take High Noon (I was too caught up in rounding out my team though, and couldn't stand the thought of having 2 westerns).

Funny how picling strategy changes throughout the draft (exception probably being Genedoc, who clearly had his eye on the prize for the whole draft).

Really glad I took favorites in many of the categories (although once again, kicking myself for not taking High Noon).

Bonzai deserves at least equal recognition, probably more credit than me. His picks are consistently judging out better than mine - Strange Fruit, Free Markets, Dec. of Rights of Man/Citizen, ALL of our wild cards. He's also getting extraordinary value with his picks. Glad he decided to help with my team and not do his own.

 

[krista4]

I was very surprised at The General and Tokyo Story not being taken. Both are regularly near the top of lists of all-time great movies. Can't say I loved Tokyo Story--I guess I'm just a Kurosawa girl. But for it not to be taken was a shock.

I have to say, I never thought I could Abrantes more, but the fact that you mentioned Heaven Can Wait just kills me. I blurted this out just a couple of days ago to OH as one of my favorite movies, to his great surprise. I never hear it mentioned as one of the best movies ever, but to me it is absolutely perfect.

You chicks just luuuuuv Warren Beatty. You like Shampoo too?

You've got to be kidding. Maybe if I were 65 years old, I'd love Warren Beatty.

Actually, Beatty has made some decent movies. "Reds", "Bugsy", "McCabe and Mrs Miller", "Bulworth", and of course "Bonnie and Clyde" (also not picked, right?)He's made some stinkeroos too, "Ishtar", "**** Tracy", "Shampoo" anyone?,

All great movies except I didn't love Bulworth. Has he even made anything since then? I think he dropped off the face of the Earth.

 

[Uncle Humuna]

Was also hoping to get flamed much much more for my Song rankings . . .

 

[DCThunder]

I was very surprised at The General and Tokyo Story not being taken. Both are regularly near the top of lists of all-time great movies. Can't say I loved Tokyo Story--I guess I'm just a Kurosawa girl. But for it not to be taken was a shock.

I have to say, I never thought I could Abrantes more, but the fact that you mentioned Heaven Can Wait just kills me. I blurted this out just a couple of days ago to OH as one of my favorite movies, to his great surprise. I never hear it mentioned as one of the best movies ever, but to me it is absolutely perfect.

You chicks just luuuuuv Warren Beatty. You like Shampoo too?

You've got to be kidding. Maybe if I were 65 years old, I'd love Warren Beatty.

Actually, Beatty has made some decent movies. "Reds", "Bugsy", "McCabe and Mrs Miller", "Bulworth", and of course "Bonnie and Clyde" (also not picked, right?)He's made some stinkeroos too, "Ishtar", "**** Tracy", "Shampoo" anyone?,

All great movies except I didn't love Bulworth. Has he even made anything since then? I think he dropped off the face of the Earth.

The wiki on him said his last flick lost so much money (2nd of all time based on returns for amount spent) that he's essentially "retired" from making films. I guess taking care of Annette Bening is work enough...

 

[krista4]

Was also hoping to get flamed much much more for my Song rankings . . .

This can be arranged.I'll post the rest of my tim and MfB play rankings tonight and will also pester OH to put up preliminary short story rankings. I might put up film rankings (numbers not tiers) if I drink enough.

 

[timschochet]

I DO have to disagree with critically acclaimed classics getting demoted because you haven't seen them.Would rather have seen you seek another opinion (even if that means published material).

I really tried not to do this. There are several plays I have not seen or read, but I did try to be fair about them.

 

[timschochet]

Just to clarify:

20 pts

Hamlet I have read several times and seen three productions, two films.

Oedipus Rex I have read several times

Romeo And Juliet I have read and seen one stage production, two films

King Lear I have read

19 pts

The Cherry Orchard I have read

Waiting for Godot I have read

Pygmalion I have read and seen

Faust Pt 1 Neither read nor seen

18 Points

A Midsummer Night’s Dream I have seen

Othello Neither read nor seen

Julius Caesar I have read

Death of A Salesman I have read

17 pts

Long Days Journey Into Night I have read

A Doll’s House I have seen

The Glass Menagerie I have seen

The Importance of Being Earnest I have seen

16 pts

Electra Neither read nor seen

Prometheus Bound I have read

A Streetcar Named Desire I have read and seen

Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolff? I have read, seen the film

15 pts

Antigone I have read and seen

Richard III I have read and seen

The Merchant of Venice I have read

Tartuffe I have read

Mother Courage and Her Children I have read

14 pts

Doctor Faustus I have read

Three Sisters I have read

The Tempest I have read

Cat on a Hot Tin Roof I have read and seen film

13 pts

My Fair Lady I have seen several times, plus film

Henry V I have seen film (Branaugh)

The Threepenny Opera Neither read nor seen

Twelfth Night Neither read nor seen

12 pts

Angels In America Neither read nor seen

The Alchemist Neither read nor seen

Antony and Cleopatra I have read

Cyrano I have seen

11 pts

The Birthday Party I have read

Our Town I have read and seen

Richard II Neither read nor seen

Medea Neither read nor seen

Amadeus seen film

10 pts

Glengarry Glen Ross seen film

Oklahoma! seen film

The Recognition of Shan####ala Neither read nor seen

Marat/Sade neither read nor seen

An Enemy of the People seen film

9 pts

Six Characters In Search of An Author read parts

The Bachhae Neither read nor seen

South Pacific I have read and seen

Lysistrata I have read

The Orestiea Neither read nor seen

8 pts

The Miracle Worker I have seen

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead I have read

The Knights Niether read nor seen

A Chorus Line Seen several times

Jesus Christ Superstar seen and listened to several times

7 pts

Titus Adronicus Neither read nor seen

An Ideal Husband I have read

Arms and the Man I have read

West Side Story Seen several times

Fiddler on The Roof seen several times

6 pts

Edward II Neither read nor seen

The Caucasian Chalk Circle Neither read nor seen

Les Miserables Seen and listened to several times

Phantom of The Opera Seen and listened to several times

5 pts

Volpone Neither read nor seen

La Vida Es Sueno Neither read nor seen

Arcadia Neither read nor seen

True West Neither read nor seen

L' Misanthrope Neither read nor seen

The Skin of Our Teeth Neither read nor seen

4 pts

Driving Miss Daisy Seen film

Brighton Beach Memoirs Seen play and film

HMS Pinafore I have read and listened to

The Mousetrap I have read and seen

The Music Man Seen film

The Odd Couple I have read and seen

3 pts

Gypsy Seen film, listened to soundtrack

Chicago Seen film and parts of play

Cats Seen and listened to several times

The Sound of Music Seen play and film

2 pts

Grease Seen play and film

Tamburlaine The Great Neither read nor seen

Showboat Seen play and film

The Producers Seen play and film

1 pt

Chess I have seen

1776 Listened to soundtrack

Tommy I have seen

Everyman Neither read nor seen

 

[Bonzai]

Was also hoping to get flamed much much more for my Song rankings . . .

Got halfway through a post about them and deleted it. Just didn't know where to go with it. I think that means that they were pretty good.

 

[krista4]

Volpone Neither read nor seen

La Vida Es Sueno Neither read nor seen

Arcadia Neither read nor seen

True West Neither read nor seen

L' Misanthrope Neither read nor seen

The Skin of Our Teeth Neither read nor seen

I suspect this was the only tier at issue. Not rummaging through the last several pages to find it, but I recall you said something to the effect that these might be higher were it not for the fact that you hadn't seen or read them. Am I remembering that correctly?

 

[anborn]

Just to clarify:

12 pts

Cyrano I have seen

you must not have been a fan?

 

[timschochet]

Volpone Neither read nor seen

La Vida Es Sueno Neither read nor seen

Arcadia Neither read nor seen

True West Neither read nor seen

L' Misanthrope Neither read nor seen

The Skin of Our Teeth Neither read nor seen

I suspect this was the only tier at issue. Not rummaging through the last several pages to find it, but I recall you said something to the effect that these might be higher were it not for the fact that you hadn't seen or read them. Am I remembering that correctly?

Not quite. What I wrote is that based on their reputations, I wish I could place them all higher, but other plays had even greater reputations. But it's true that if I had seen them this might have helped (or hurt them.)I really had a hard time in the lower tiers separating the dramas from the musicals. It's pretty arbritary I admit.

 

[timschochet]

Just to clarify:

12 pts

Cyrano I have seen

you must not have been a fan?

Actually I'm a huge fan. I think 12 is a terrific ranking for this play. If you disagree, please let me know which selections above it you think are overrated.

 

[DCThunder]

Volpone Neither read nor seen

La Vida Es Sueno Neither read nor seen

Arcadia Neither read nor seen

True West Neither read nor seen

L' Misanthrope Neither read nor seen

The Skin of Our Teeth Neither read nor seen

I suspect this was the only tier at issue. Not rummaging through the last several pages to find it, but I recall you said something to the effect that these might be higher were it not for the fact that you hadn't seen or read them. Am I remembering that correctly?

Not quite. What I wrote is that based on their reputations, I wish I could place them all higher, but other plays had even greater reputations. But it's true that if I had seen them this might have helped (or hurt them.)I really had a hard time in the lower tiers separating the dramas from the musicals. It's pretty arbritary I admit.

First off, I am not a theatre guy, so the job Tim has done on these is very good. He's seen and read many more plays than I ever will have. So this is not an attack on Tim or his judging or his dedication to judging or his etics or morals or anything. I'm not trying to be another arch-nemesis or anything.That said, judging plays (or anything else) based on the works' "reputation" seems somewhat hollow. Even only having read a play seems off, as plays are meant to be performed and seen and experienced by an audience, not just read like a novel. Staging and costumes and lighting and acting and music (if any) all go into the theatre experience. Reading Marc Antony's funeral oration isn't the same as seeing a great actor emote those words.

There are countless lists of "great" plays and we could just use those lists to rank the plays chosen. That would have been as good a way to do this as have Tim (or anyone else) rank them based on "reputation".

Again, Tim, great job on a difficult category under difficult circumstances. But as was said upthread, having a team approach to judging some of these categories might have been a good idea.