Official Great Works Draft (2 Viewers)

[Genedoc]

Nonfiction 6 Points

Oxford English Dictionary

Roget’s Thesaurus

World Almanac

The Encyclopedia Britannica

Poor Richard’s Almanack

I wasn't sure how to rank these against each other, so I put most of these works here. There are two exceptions which are more notable in terms of history and so deserve more recognition. All of these works are incredibly important, though the Internet has probably caused my generation to be the last to have used them on a regular basis. Ben Franklin's book deserves special mention here because it's so brilliant.

In the Almanack is so "brilliant", it deserves more than a measly 5 points. It simply paved the way for newspapers and journalism and "America" as it came to be known. It was published in Philadelphia when almost all important literature and reading material came from England or Boston. All Americans knew of Franklin and his Almanack. And you give it 5 points...Sheesh.....mMaybe I'll havbe to become your second arch-nemesis afterall...

In Tim's defense, Poor Richard's Almanac isn't terribly influential anywhere else in the world other than the United States, and unlike most of the works it's being judged against, it neither created entire fields of study nor overturned generations of thinking. In a draft of the greatest most influential books in the history of the world, it's about where it belongs IMHO.

 

[BobbyLayne]

One thing I have noticed is that one judge may apply a certain criteria to his rankings, while another may bottom shelf a pick because he cares not about the same criteria

Yeah, effing humans

 

[timschochet]

Non fiction 12 Points

Democracy in America

The Symposium

The Canon of Medicine

Ethics

Civil Disobedience

The Ethics listed here is by Spinoza. I made a big mistake earlier ranking it above Aristotle's work, and I have corrected.

 

[BobbyLayne]

One more doc I wanted to recommend as a personal favorite--maybe couldn't have rated it way high but it is a perfect movie IMO: Spellbound. More genuine suspense than I can remember in just about any movie, whether doc or fiction, and I laughed, I cried, etc. Also a perfect family movie.

That one is terrific.

Krista4 - help me out here, having a senior moment. What was the doc about the crossword puzzle championship? I went to the screening (might have been Tribeca FF, not sure), and the director was there, along with Will Short from NPR (NYT crossword puzzle editor, also on Weekend Edition). That was another great off the wall subject doc.

WordplayWill Shortz

Pfft...middle age

 

[timschochet]

Non Fiction 13 Points

Encyclopedie

On the Genealogy of Morality/Morals

Psychology of the Unconscious

The Federalist Papers

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

The Diderot book is more important than the other encyclopedias and dictionaries drafted because it was the first great collection of human knowledge. Also, it's more of world import than those works dealing with the English language.

 

[TidesofWar]

One thing I have noticed is that one judge may apply a certain criteria to his rankings, while another may bottom shelf a pick because he cares not about the same criteria

Yeah, effing humans

Well, I think it only makes sense that if one judge is willing to be able to indoctrinate "Critics" opinions into the rankings, then, in the sake of fairness and balance, all should.Opinion will always factor in, but some base guidelines should apply arcoss the board.Kinda like Steve Javy or Joey Crawford, some seem to feel their thoughts and perceptions supercede the basic rules and tenets of the gameBut what do I know?

 

[timschochet]

Nonfiction 14 Points

On War

The Art of War

Beyond Good and Evil

The Social Contract

Two Treatises of Government

I put On War and The Art of War together here because I'm lazy and I like to compartmentalize.

 

[Bonzai]

Non fiction 12 Points

Democracy in America

The Symposium

The Canon of Medicine

Ethics

Civil Disobedience

The Ethics listed here is by Spinoza. I made a big mistake earlier ranking it above Aristotle's work, and I have corrected.

I was all ready to have a meltdown.

 

[Postradamus]

One thing I have noticed is that one judge may apply a certain criteria to his rankings, while another may bottom shelf a pick because he cares not about the same criteria

Yeah, effing humans

But what do I know?

 

[BobbyLayne]

One thing I have noticed is that one judge may apply a certain criteria to his rankings, while another may bottom shelf a pick because he cares not about the same criteria

Yeah, effing humans

Well, I think it only makes sense that if one judge is willing to be able to indoctrinate "Critics" opinions into the rankings, then, in the sake of fairness and balance, all should.

Why

 

[timschochet]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

 

[DCThunder]

Nonfiction 6 Points

Oxford English Dictionary

Roget’s Thesaurus

World Almanac

The Encyclopedia Britannica

Poor Richard’s Almanack

I wasn't sure how to rank these against each other, so I put most of these works here. There are two exceptions which are more notable in terms of history and so deserve more recognition. All of these works are incredibly important, though the Internet has probably caused my generation to be the last to have used them on a regular basis. Ben Franklin's book deserves special mention here because it's so brilliant.

In the Almanack is so "brilliant", it deserves more than a measly 5 points. It simply paved the way for newspapers and journalism and "America" as it came to be known. It was published in Philadelphia when almost all important literature and reading material came from England or Boston. All Americans knew of Franklin and his Almanack. And you give it 5 points...Sheesh.....mMaybe I'll havbe to become your second arch-nemesis afterall...

In Tim's defense, Poor Richard's Almanac isn't terribly influential anywhere else in the world other than the United States, and unlike most of the works it's being judged against, it neither created entire fields of study nor overturned generations of thinking. In a draft of the greatest most influential books in the history of the world, it's about where it belongs IMHO.

So no other culture knows of Franklin's proverbs and sayings that have become part of the English language and general world culture? "The early bird gets the worm" or "penny-wise and pound foolish"? Any culture with a free (or semi-free) press owes that to Franklin and his publication of a national newspaper. The Almanack has been and was translated into French and was widely read in pre-revolutionary France. If the Almanack has been "forgotten" it isn't Franklin's fault or the fault of the quality and importance of the work. It's certainly more important than Zen/Motorcycle or Kama Sutra or many other works...

 

[TidesofWar]

Nonfiction 14 Points

On War

The Art of War

Beyond Good and Evil

The Social Contract

Two Treatises of Government

I put On War and The Art of War together here because I'm lazy and I like to compartmentalize.

When you say you are going to put all three "Brother" works together - what would you call it??

 

[Genedoc]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

Just curious - there have been 5 in every other grouping, haven't there? Why 6 in this one?

 

[timschochet]

Nonfiction 16 Points

I Ching

The Histories

Essay Concerning Human Understanding

An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding

Ninety five Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences

Human understanding is important. So is history.

Martin Luther doesn't actually strike me as the "indulging" sort.

 

[Genedoc]

Nonfiction 6 Points

Oxford English Dictionary

Roget’s Thesaurus

World Almanac

The Encyclopedia Britannica

Poor Richard’s Almanack

I wasn't sure how to rank these against each other, so I put most of these works here. There are two exceptions which are more notable in terms of history and so deserve more recognition. All of these works are incredibly important, though the Internet has probably caused my generation to be the last to have used them on a regular basis. Ben Franklin's book deserves special mention here because it's so brilliant.

In the Almanack is so "brilliant", it deserves more than a measly 5 points. It simply paved the way for newspapers and journalism and "America" as it came to be known. It was published in Philadelphia when almost all important literature and reading material came from England or Boston. All Americans knew of Franklin and his Almanack. And you give it 5 points...Sheesh.....mMaybe I'll havbe to become your second arch-nemesis afterall...

In Tim's defense, Poor Richard's Almanac isn't terribly influential anywhere else in the world other than the United States, and unlike most of the works it's being judged against, it neither created entire fields of study nor overturned generations of thinking. In a draft of the greatest most influential books in the history of the world, it's about where it belongs IMHO.

So no other culture knows of Franklin's proverbs and sayings that have become part of the English language and general world culture? "The early bird gets the worm" or "penny-wise and pound foolish"? Any culture with a free (or semi-free) press owes that to Franklin and his publication of a national newspaper. The Almanack has been and was translated into French and was widely read in pre-revolutionary France. If the Almanack has been "forgotten" it isn't Franklin's fault or the fault of the quality and importance of the work. It's certainly more important than Zen/Motorcycle or Kama Sutra or many other works...

IMO, there is plenty of room for reasonable disagreement above. On the list of "things responsible for free press", there are half a dozen things easily ahead of the Almanac.

 

[timschochet]

Nonfiction 14 Points

On War

The Art of War

Beyond Good and Evil

The Social Contract

Two Treatises of Government

I put On War and The Art of War together here because I'm lazy and I like to compartmentalize.

When you say you are going to put all three "Brother" works together - what would you call it??

I call it being the Man keeping them down.

 

[timschochet]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

Just curious - there have been 5 in every other grouping, haven't there? Why 6 in this one?

After I switched over the Aristotle it just worked out that way.

 

[DCThunder]

Nonfiction 6 Points

Oxford English Dictionary

Roget’s Thesaurus

World Almanac

The Encyclopedia Britannica

Poor Richard’s Almanack

I wasn't sure how to rank these against each other, so I put most of these works here. There are two exceptions which are more notable in terms of history and so deserve more recognition. All of these works are incredibly important, though the Internet has probably caused my generation to be the last to have used them on a regular basis. Ben Franklin's book deserves special mention here because it's so brilliant.

In the Almanack is so "brilliant", it deserves more than a measly 5 points. It simply paved the way for newspapers and journalism and "America" as it came to be known. It was published in Philadelphia when almost all important literature and reading material came from England or Boston. All Americans knew of Franklin and his Almanack. And you give it 5 points...Sheesh.....mMaybe I'll havbe to become your second arch-nemesis afterall...

In Tim's defense, Poor Richard's Almanac isn't terribly influential anywhere else in the world other than the United States, and unlike most of the works it's being judged against, it neither created entire fields of study nor overturned generations of thinking. In a draft of the greatest most influential books in the history of the world, it's about where it belongs IMHO.

So no other culture knows of Franklin's proverbs and sayings that have become part of the English language and general world culture? "The early bird gets the worm" or "penny-wise and pound foolish"? Any culture with a free (or semi-free) press owes that to Franklin and his publication of a national newspaper. The Almanack has been and was translated into French and was widely read in pre-revolutionary France. If the Almanack has been "forgotten" it isn't Franklin's fault or the fault of the quality and importance of the work. It's certainly more important than Zen/Motorcycle or Kama Sutra or many other works...

IMO, there is plenty of room for reasonable disagreement above. On the list of "things responsible for free press", there are half a dozen things easily ahead of the Almanac.

Yeah, that might have been a little over the top....

 

[timschochet]

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Meditation on First Philosophy

Confessions

The Prince

These works are all boring. Who reads Confessions for the fun of it?

Well, maybe Machiavelli's not dull...

 

[TidesofWar]

Nonfiction 14 Points

On War

The Art of War

Beyond Good and Evil

The Social Contract

Two Treatises of Government

I put On War and The Art of War together here because I'm lazy and I like to compartmentalize.

When you say you are going to put all three "Brother" works together - what would you call it??

I call it being the Man keeping them down.

I call it lazy BS

 

[krista4]

rodg12 - why don't you slide 20 of my points over to ToW.

He hates to lose and I'm apathetic, so thats winner winner chicken dinner all the way around.



Make it 30.

although Krista will kill me, Team Fennis will match that 30.

The other half of Team Fennis matches that 30 to make it 60. Anyone remember who wanted to have no judging? Anyone? Anyone?

Although that wasn't my reasoning, god knows it would have helped with the whining.

Awaiting my "participant" trophy, I remain, truly yours,

K4

 

[krista4]

One more doc I wanted to recommend as a personal favorite--maybe couldn't have rated it way high but it is a perfect movie IMO: Spellbound. More genuine suspense than I can remember in just about any movie, whether doc or fiction, and I laughed, I cried, etc. Also a perfect family movie.

That one is terrific.

Krista4 - help me out here, having a senior moment. What was the doc about the crossword puzzle championship? I went to the screening (might have been Tribeca FF, not sure), and the director was there, along with Will Short from NPR (NYT crossword puzzle editor, also on Weekend Edition). That was another great off the wall subject doc.

Wordplay. Interesting, cool, not as suspenseful or fun as Spellbound but very good.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Nonfiction 14 Points

Two Treatises of Government

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Hobbes over Lockejumped the shark

 

[timschochet]

Nonfiction 18 Points

Das Kapital

General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

The Interpretation of Dreams

Relativity: The Special and the General Theory

On The Fabric of The Human Body

The first two books here are apparently favorites of Barack Obama.

Seriously, the one I had the most trouble here was placing the Freud. I am no expert, but I understand many of his ideas have been discredited. Still, it seems like such a revolutionary and influential work that I had to rank it high. Interested in feedback from those who know.

 

[Bonzai]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

Better, but still meltdown worthy. It bums me out to see Aristotle's Ethics right next to his Treatise on Rhetoric. I realize that you have an impossible task here, and I think you've done really well so far, but NE is widely considered a greater work than R. This was one of your easier calls imo.

 

[krista4]

One thing I have noticed is that one judge may apply a certain criteria to his rankings, while another may bottom shelf a pick because he cares not about the same criteria

Yeah, effing humans

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111on311111111111!!!!!!

 

[TidesofWar]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

Better, but still meltdown worthy. It bums me out to see Aristotle's Ethics right next to his Treatise on Rhetoric. I realize that you have an impossible task here, and I think you've done really well so far, but NE is widely considered a greater work than R. This was one of your easier calls imo.

What have the Dead Scrolls influenced?

 

[BobbyLayne]

One more doc I wanted to recommend as a personal favorite--maybe couldn't have rated it way high but it is a perfect movie IMO: Spellbound. More genuine suspense than I can remember in just about any movie, whether doc or fiction, and I laughed, I cried, etc. Also a perfect family movie.

That one is terrific.

Krista4 - help me out here, having a senior moment. What was the doc about the crossword puzzle championship? I went to the screening (might have been Tribeca FF, not sure), and the director was there, along with Will Short from NPR (NYT crossword puzzle editor, also on Weekend Edition). That was another great off the wall subject doc.

Wordplay. Interesting, cool, not as suspenseful or fun as Spellbound but very good.

Of course...I mean, seriously, who do you really want to party with, puzzle guys or spelling bee champs?/discussion

Agreed, Spellbound is better storytelling.

But Will Shortz autographed my cw puzzle.

 

[timschochet]

Nonfiction 19 Points

Analects of Confucius

Elements

The Republic

The Origin of Species

Critique of Pure Reason

For clarification, The Critique of Pure Reason mentioned here is Kant's work, and not a collection of Tides of War's most recent postings in this thread.

 

[krista4]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

I really like smart-### tim.

 

[Genedoc]

Nonfiction 14 Points

Two Treatises of Government

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Hobbes over Lockejumped the shark

Hobbes over Locke makes a lot more sense than ranking The Scream 5 tiers ahead of The Persistence of Memory.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Nonfiction 14 Points

Two Treatises of Government

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Hobbes over Lockejumped the shark

Hobbes over Locke makes a lot more sense than ranking The Scream 5 tiers ahead of The Persistence of Memory.

FU

A

HOLE

 

[timschochet]

Nonfiction 20 Points

The Qu’run

Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica

The Old Testament

The New Testament

Tao Te Ching

I have grouped the Qu'run, The Old Testament, The New Testament, and the Tao together because I'm lazy and like to compartmentalize.

 

[krista4]

Nonfiction 14 Points

Two Treatises of Government

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Hobbes over Lockejumped the shark

Hobbes over Locke makes a lot more sense than ranking The Scream 5 tiers ahead of The Persistence of Memory.

OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BobbyLayne]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

I really like smart-### tim.

I know, good work here tonight.You almost think someone stole his PW.

Three drafts we haven't seen it.

Actually, three years we haven't seen it.

 

[ScottNorwood]

ToW, is it your position that tim does not take these drafts seriously enough?

 

[Postradamus]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

Better, but still meltdown worthy. It bums me out to see Aristotle's Ethics right next to his Treatise on Rhetoric. I realize that you have an impossible task here, and I think you've done really well so far, but NE is widely considered a greater work than R. This was one of your easier calls imo.

What have the Dead Scrolls influenced?

New translations of the bible, how we interpret scripture, what early christian sects believed...

 

[Genedoc]

Nonfiction 14 Points

Two Treatises of Government

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Hobbes over Lockejumped the shark

Hobbes over Locke makes a lot more sense than ranking The Scream 5 tiers ahead of The Persistence of Memory.

OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

After calming down for 4 days I almost took the high road and didn't post this. Then I decided it was too good of an opportunity for a snazzy one liner, and I'm just weak enough of a man to have a difficult time passing up snazzy one liners.

 

[DCThunder]

Nonfiction 20 Points

The Qu’run

Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica

The Old Testament

The New Testament

Tao Te Ching

I have grouped the Qu'run, The Old Testament, The New Testament, and the Tao together because I'm lazy and like to compartmentalize.

So you are saying that Newton-love is essentially a religion? Should have included Darwin and made it a six-pack...

 

[ScottNorwood]

Nonfiction 20 Points

The Qu’run

Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica

The Old Testament

The New Testament

Tao Te Ching

I have grouped the Qu'run, The Old Testament, The New Testament, and the Tao together because I'm lazy and like to compartmentalize.

Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid

is better than any of these books. You just didn't understand it. Admit it.

 

[Abrantes]

ToW, is it your position that tim does not take these drafts seriously enough?

 

[TidesofWar]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

I really like smart-### tim.

I revel in the fact you have to deal with your obtuse, stubborn, muleish hubby - if you are indeed married

 

[ScottNorwood]

Nonfiction 14 Points

Two Treatises of Government

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Hobbes over Lockejumped the shark

Hobbes over Locke makes a lot more sense than ranking The Scream 5 tiers ahead of The Persistence of Memory.

OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

After calming down for 4 days I almost took the high road and didn't post this. Then I decided it was too good of an opportunity for a snazzy one liner, and I'm just weak enough of a man to have a difficult time passing up snazzy one liners.

Gene, you're my hero

 

[krista4]

Nonfiction 14 Points

Two Treatises of Government

Nonfiction 17 Points

Leviathan

Hobbes over Lockejumped the shark

Hobbes over Locke makes a lot more sense than ranking The Scream 5 tiers ahead of The Persistence of Memory.

OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

After calming down for 4 days I almost took the high road and didn't post this. Then I decided it was too good of an opportunity for a snazzy one liner, and I'm just weak enough of a man to have a difficult time passing up snazzy one liners.

Can't blame you for that. I'm not often able to resist a zing either.

 

[krista4]

ToW, is it your position that tim does not take these drafts seriously enough?

POTY.

 

[Genedoc]

ToW, is it your position that tim does not take these drafts seriously enough?

:applause:

 

[Bonzai]

ToW, is it your position that tim does not take these drafts seriously enough?

 

[timschochet]

20 Points

The Qu’run

Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica

The Old Testament

The New Testament

Tao Te Ching

19 Points

Analects of Confucius

Elements

The Republic

The Origin of Species

Critique of Pure Reason

18 Points

Das Kapital

General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

The Interpretation of Dreams

Relativity: The Special and the General Theory

On The Fabric of The Human Body

17 Points

Leviathan

Meditation on First Philosophy

Confessions

The Prince

16 Points

I Ching

The Histories

Essay Concerning Human Understanding

An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding

Ninety five Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

14 Points

On War

The Art of War

Beyond Good and Evil

The Social Contract

Two Treatises of Government

13 Points

Encyclopedie

On the Genealogy of Morality/Morals

Psychology of the Unconscious

The Federalist Papers

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

12 Points

Democracy in America

The Symposium

The Canon of Medicine

Ethics

Civil Disobedience

11 Points

Silent Spring

Common Sense

The Jewish State

Book of The Dead

The Education of Henry Adams

10 Points

Walden Pond

History of the Pelopponesian War

Codex Leicester

The Road To Serfdom

Discourse on the First Ten Books of Titius Livius

9 Points

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Nature

The Kingdom of God Is Within You

The Double Helix

The Gulag Archipelago

8 Points

The Everlasting Man

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

The Book of Five Rings

The Four Books of Architecture

J’Accuse

The Abolition of Man

7 Points

The Kama Sutra

Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas

Up From Slavery

The Autobiography of Malcolm X

A Dictionary of The English Language

6 Points

Oxford English Dictionary

Roget’s Thesaurus

World Almanac

The Encyclopedia Britannica

Poor Richard’s Almanack

5 Points

Battle Cry of Freedom

The Civil War: A Narrative

The Second World War

The Death and Life of Great American Cities

4 Points

Mastering The Art of French Cooking’

Diet for A Small Planet

The Joy of Cooking

The Lives of a Cell

3 points

Night

In Cold Blood

2 Points

The Right Stuff

Cadillac Desert

1 Point

Founding Brothers

Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid

 

[TidesofWar]

15 Points

Summa Theologica

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Gray’s Anatomy

Rhetoric

Disquisitiones Arithmeticae

Nichomachean Ethics

The Dead Sea Scrolls is here because it's really old.

Better, but still meltdown worthy. It bums me out to see Aristotle's Ethics right next to his Treatise on Rhetoric. I realize that you have an impossible task here, and I think you've done really well so far, but NE is widely considered a greater work than R. This was one of your easier calls imo.

What have the Dead Scrolls influenced?

New translations of the bible, how we interpret scripture, what early christian sects believed...

WrongI see I am on an island - but I don't care

No one has yet answered the question "Why does one judge value outside opinion, and another discards it?"

I have done my best, but there are certain built-in biases and such that make this judging a foppish, foolish undertaking