***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (2 Viewers)

[Henry Ford]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

 

[Otis]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

so no one gets shot. duh.

This is true, but it's even more than that.

 

[timschochet]

Wayne LaPierre : Blah Blah BlahBlah Stealing our guns Blah Blah Blah Insane Blah Blah Blah

And of course he did not take any questions... Coward

The NRA did themselves no favors with that shameful "press conference".

 

[Otis]

Wayne LaPierre : Blah Blah BlahBlah Stealing our guns Blah Blah Blah Insane Blah Blah Blah

And of course he did not take any questions... Coward

This. Nothing new.

 

[jafo]

Yea, because making concealed carry more difficult to obtain is going to hurt criminals. Keep the great ideas coming gentlemen...

 

[RCon]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

So you don't ever take them to restaurants, stores, town parks, or anywhere else?

 

[moleculo]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

is it not a felony anyways to brandish an illegal fire-arm? if a gang-banger shows up brandishing a gun, gun-free or not, are there not other laws on the books to deal with that?

 

[RCon]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

Do those idiots have concealed carry licenses? If not, then why is the gun free zone relevant? If so, as noted earlier, we should also be making the requirements for concealed carry permits much more rigorous.Edit: yes, what moleculo just said.

 

[Apes with Guns]

Arming teachers seems to be a decent approach, but how long will it last? The first time a teacher feels threatened by a kid and decides to whip out their piece, or even shoot the kid, will this country just accept that?

 

[Apple Jack]

How we doing in here? Any movement? Have we reached a compromise?

 

[timschochet]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

So you don't ever take them to restaurants, stores, town parks, or anywhere else?

If I had my way, those would all be gun free zones as well. But others disagree with me on this, so I don't get my way. My daughters spend several hours every day at school. That is very different from the few hours they spend per week in restaurants, stores, etc. So I'm going to have to insist that schools at the very least remain gun free.

 

[Henry Ford]

Yea, because making concealed carry more difficult to obtain is going to hurt criminals. Keep the great ideas coming gentlemen...

There are multiple facets of this discussion, and "making it harder on criminals" is a confusing statement in that context. Fact is, people with concealed carry permits engaging in criminal behavior is a problem - often behavior that never would have happened or wouldn't be as big a deal if they weren't carrying guns. But I know that's not what you're talking about.The fact is, there's a problem with the "criminal" as a danger (and I assume you mean the people who carry firearms with an intent to do illegal acts that don't just spring up out of spur-of-the-moment stuff) but there's also the problem of the concealed weapon as a danger. Concealed weapons go off in movie theaters when the idiot carrying it gets it hung up on his jacket when he's taking it off, or they get misplaced, or dropped, or pulled at the wrong time out of confusion or maliciousness or whatever.It is often acceptable and even sometimes helpful to have someone who is well trained, responsible, has good judgment, is a good shot, is willing to actually fire the weapon at a perpetrator, and is mentally stable with a concealed weapon. But even with those people, there is an inherent danger to having a weapon in the room. It is always dangerous to have people who do not have all of those qualities carrying concealed weapons. It's about minimizing the danger while maximizing the helpfulness.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Do those of you that like guns object to the "concealed" part of concealed carry? Would they prefer that guns be carried openly? I haven't really given that distinction any thought -- is there a particular reason that "concealed" seems to be the more common practice?

 

[timschochet]

Arming teachers seems to be a decent approach, but how long will it last? The first time a teacher feels threatened by a kid and decides to whip out their piece, or even shoot the kid, will this country just accept that?

It's not decent at all.

 

[Henry Ford]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

is it not a felony anyways to brandish an illegal fire-arm? if a gang-banger shows up brandishing a gun, gun-free or not, are there not other laws on the books to deal with that?

Why are you under the impression that these guns are illegal in any other way? And I didn't say brandishing anywhere in my sentence. I said "with a gun."

 

[Apple Jack]

Arming teachers seems to be a decent approach, but how long will it last? The first time a teacher feels threatened by a kid and decides to whip out their piece, or even shoot the kid, will this country just accept that?

Anti-gun contingent: Uh, yeah, that's what guns do. Kill people.Pro-gun contingent: How dare you use this occasion to push your agenda. You like it when these things happen because it allows you to get on your soapbox.We're ####ed contingent: Hey, who wants to grab some tacos?

 

[Apes with Guns]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

So you don't ever take them to restaurants, stores, town parks, or anywhere else?

Kids spend 8 hours a day in school, and 3/4 of the year there as well. They would have more exposure to these guns at school, hence increasing the exposure to those guns.

 

[ATC1]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

PM sent

 

[Henry Ford]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

Do those idiots have concealed carry licenses? If not, then why is the gun free zone relevant? If so, as noted earlier, we should also be making the requirements for concealed carry permits much more rigorous.Edit: yes, what moleculo just said.

Sometimes, yes, they do have concealed carry permits. And it's relevant no matter what because you can carry guns in ways other than concealed. For instance "open".

 

[Apes with Guns]

Arming teachers seems to be a decent approach, but how long will it last? The first time a teacher feels threatened by a kid and decides to whip out their piece, or even shoot the kid, will this country just accept that?

It's not decent at all.

Poor choice of words. Sorry.

 

[RCon]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

So you don't ever take them to restaurants, stores, town parks, or anywhere else?

If I had my way, those would all be gun free zones as well. But others disagree with me on this, so I don't get my way. My daughters spend several hours every day at school. That is very different from the few hours they spend per week in restaurants, stores, etc. So I'm going to have to insist that schools at the very least remain gun free.

I just don't get the idea that you want to prevent "the good guys" from defending against the bad guys, knowing that the bad guys will ignore the law. I would get the sentiment that you want to be damn sure that the good guys actually are the good guys (i.e. make the concealed carry requirements much more rigorous), but not the "prevent the good guys from helping" sentiment.

 

[ATC1]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

The gang banger legally owns a gun, goes through the proper training and background check to get a CCP and keeps the firearm concealed at all times?

 

[jafo]

Yea, because making concealed carry more difficult to obtain is going to hurt criminals. Keep the great ideas coming gentlemen...

 

[RCon]

Do those of you that like guns object to the "concealed" part of concealed carry? Would they prefer that guns be carried openly? I haven't really given that distinction any thought -- is there a particular reason that "concealed" seems to be the more common practice?

As a deterrence factor, I very much want it to be concealed. Whether I have a gun or not, I want the bad guys to believe that there's a possibility that I might.

 

[moleculo]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

is it not a felony anyways to brandish an illegal fire-arm? if a gang-banger shows up brandishing a gun, gun-free or not, are there not other laws on the books to deal with that?

Why are you under the impression that these guns are illegal in any other way? And I didn't say brandishing anywhere in my sentence. I said "with a gun."

Having a sign at the door that reads - "gun free zone" doesn't automatically arrest anyone that has a gun hidden on their person. The only way you would know if someone has a gun is if they brandish it.

 

[Henry Ford]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

The gang banger legally owns a gun, goes through the proper training and background check to get a CCP and keeps the firearm concealed at all times?

No, the gang banger drives a car with a legal gun onto a campus and the gun is in the car. Being in the car, he is not illegally carrying a concealed weapon in many states. But the existence of the firearm in a gun free zone is a jailable offense.

 

[ATC1]

Yea, because making concealed carry more difficult to obtain is going to hurt criminals. Keep the great ideas coming gentlemen...

If you are going to get "Gun Free Zones" removed, you are going to have to give the parents of children a large amount of assurance that they will be responsible around their kids. Way to easy to get a CCP in some states for this to happen.

 

[moleculo]

Arming teachers seems to be a decent approach, but how long will it last? The first time a teacher feels threatened by a kid and decides to whip out their piece, or even shoot the kid, will this country just accept that?

I think we can all agree that Apes should not have guns.

 

[Henry Ford]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

is it not a felony anyways to brandish an illegal fire-arm? if a gang-banger shows up brandishing a gun, gun-free or not, are there not other laws on the books to deal with that?

Why are you under the impression that these guns are illegal in any other way? And I didn't say brandishing anywhere in my sentence. I said "with a gun."

Having a sign at the door that reads - "gun free zone" doesn't automatically arrest anyone that has a gun hidden on their person. The only way you would know if someone has a gun is if they brandish it.

Maybe we're using different definitions of the word brandish. I'm using the legal one. Does having a gun sitting on your car seat equate to brandishing for you? Or telling someone you have a gun in your car?

 

[RCon]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

Do those idiots have concealed carry licenses? If not, then why is the gun free zone relevant? If so, as noted earlier, we should also be making the requirements for concealed carry permits much more rigorous.Edit: yes, what moleculo just said.

Sometimes, yes, they do have concealed carry permits. And it's relevant no matter what because you can carry guns in ways other than concealed. For instance "open".

So how is that different than making the requirements much more rigorous for carrying (concealed or not) in certain places? Make the law such that "an idiot" can't carry (concealed or not), but that someone who is able to help can.

 

[timschochet]

LaPierre's "solutions" were strikingly anti-conservative. Armed guards in every school in America? A national database for the mentally ill?

 

[Jobber]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

The gang banger legally owns a gun, goes through the proper training and background check to get a CCP and keeps the firearm concealed at all times?

you must be 18+ to legally own a handgun. That eliminates most high school age kids. Not sure about the PD issuing a CCW permit to a person still in high school.edited to fix grammar

 

[ATC1]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

The gang banger legally owns a gun, goes through the proper training and background check to get a CCP and keeps the firearm concealed at all times?

No, the gang banger drives a car with a legal gun onto a campus and the gun is in the car. Being in the car, he is not illegally carrying a concealed weapon in many states. But the existence of the firearm in a gun free zone is a jailable offense.

Most states your car is an extension of your home anyway even in a "Gun Free Zone".

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Do those of you that like guns object to the "concealed" part of concealed carry? Would they prefer that guns be carried openly? I haven't really given that distinction any thought -- is there a particular reason that "concealed" seems to be the more common practice?

As a deterrence factor, I very much want it to be concealed. Whether I have a gun or not, I want the bad guys to believe that there's a possibility that I might.

Wait, maybe I don't even understand how these laws work. Are people allowed to carry their weapons openly?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Maybe I'm just in a weird mood, but this really had me cracking up when I saw somebody post it on facebook (and mean it seriously):

http://imageshack.us/a/img542/503/56378042326618108702420.jpg

 

[ATC1]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

The gang banger legally owns a gun, goes through the proper training and background check to get a CCP and keeps the firearm concealed at all times?

Legally you must be 18+ to legally own a handgun. That eliminates most high school age kids. Not sure about the PD issuing a CCW permit to a person still in high school.

21 here.

 

[Henry Ford]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

Do those idiots have concealed carry licenses? If not, then why is the gun free zone relevant? If so, as noted earlier, we should also be making the requirements for concealed carry permits much more rigorous.Edit: yes, what moleculo just said.

Sometimes, yes, they do have concealed carry permits. And it's relevant no matter what because you can carry guns in ways other than concealed. For instance "open".

So how is that different than making the requirements much more rigorous for carrying (concealed or not) in certain places? Make the law such that "an idiot" can't carry (concealed or not), but that someone who is able to help can.

I'm all for that. Watch and see what happens when you suggest making it extraordinarily difficult to get a permit to carry openly and concealed. Guess whether people would rather spend a bunch of time, effort, and money doing that or just have gun free zones. The gun free zones were a compromise.

 

[ATC1]

Do those of you that like guns object to the "concealed" part of concealed carry? Would they prefer that guns be carried openly? I haven't really given that distinction any thought -- is there a particular reason that "concealed" seems to be the more common practice?

As a deterrence factor, I very much want it to be concealed. Whether I have a gun or not, I want the bad guys to believe that there's a possibility that I might.

Wait, maybe I don't even understand how these laws work. Are people allowed to carry their weapons openly?

Some states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Do those of you that like guns object to the "concealed" part of concealed carry? Would they prefer that guns be carried openly? I haven't really given that distinction any thought -- is there a particular reason that "concealed" seems to be the more common practice?

As a deterrence factor, I very much want it to be concealed. Whether I have a gun or not, I want the bad guys to believe that there's a possibility that I might.

Yeah, I think the "concealed" part makes it a public good. It allows non-gun-carriers to free-ride on the deterrent effect provided by the gun-carriers. In a good way.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

So you don't ever take them to restaurants, stores, town parks, or anywhere else?

If I had my way, those would all be gun free zones as well. But others disagree with me on this, so I don't get my way. My daughters spend several hours every day at school. That is very different from the few hours they spend per week in restaurants, stores, etc. So I'm going to have to insist that schools at the very least remain gun free.

I just don't get the idea that you want to prevent "the good guys" from defending against the bad guys, knowing that the bad guys will ignore the law. I would get the sentiment that you want to be damn sure that the good guys actually are the good guys (i.e. make the concealed carry requirements much more rigorous), but not the "prevent the good guys from helping" sentiment.

There's two sentiments at work here I think. The first is the general idea that it's pretty much impossible to make sure the good guys are the good guys. The second- and I'm just guessing here, my kid is still an infant- may be a "loss of innocence" thing. People probably don't want an armed presence in the classroom for the same reason that they have warnings before they show violent stories on the news, or that video games have warning labels, or that they didn't let kids watch that TV movie about nuclear war. People like to protect their children from the reality that the world is a dangerous place and that they could die at any minute, because kids don't understand concepts like probability. If they find out their teachers are carrying guns because sometimes crazy people decide out of nowhere to start murdering kids while they're in schools, it's probably gonna scare the #### out of them. It's one thing if it happens in some town on the news to some town that doesn't necessarily seem real and you can reassure them that it won't happen to them; it's another if their teacher is packing heat just in case.

 

[moleculo]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

is it not a felony anyways to brandish an illegal fire-arm? if a gang-banger shows up brandishing a gun, gun-free or not, are there not other laws on the books to deal with that?

Why are you under the impression that these guns are illegal in any other way? And I didn't say brandishing anywhere in my sentence. I said "with a gun."

Having a sign at the door that reads - "gun free zone" doesn't automatically arrest anyone that has a gun hidden on their person. The only way you would know if someone has a gun is if they brandish it.

Maybe we're using different definitions of the word brandish. I'm using the legal one. Does having a gun sitting on your car seat equate to brandishing for you? Or telling someone you have a gun in your car?

yeah, I think so. My thinking is that there are two types of guns - "those we know about" and "those we don't know about". It's impossible for anyone ever to be arrested for guns we don't know about, regardless of where it is. If we know about it, we can deal with it.Why does it have to be all or nothing, anyways? Can't schools be "Gun-Free-Zones-Except-for-Permits"?

 

[RCon]

Do those of you that like guns object to the "concealed" part of concealed carry? Would they prefer that guns be carried openly? I haven't really given that distinction any thought -- is there a particular reason that "concealed" seems to be the more common practice?

As a deterrence factor, I very much want it to be concealed. Whether I have a gun or not, I want the bad guys to believe that there's a possibility that I might.

Wait, maybe I don't even understand how these laws work. Are people allowed to carry their weapons openly?

I assume that's state by state, no?What I'm suggesting is that I absolutely don't want to see laws abolishing concealed carry and mandating that guns need to be carried openly.

 

[timschochet]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

So you don't ever take them to restaurants, stores, town parks, or anywhere else?

If I had my way, those would all be gun free zones as well. But others disagree with me on this, so I don't get my way. My daughters spend several hours every day at school. That is very different from the few hours they spend per week in restaurants, stores, etc. So I'm going to have to insist that schools at the very least remain gun free.

I just don't get the idea that you want to prevent "the good guys" from defending against the bad guys, knowing that the bad guys will ignore the law. I would get the sentiment that you want to be damn sure that the good guys actually are the good guys (i.e. make the concealed carry requirements much more rigorous), but not the "prevent the good guys from helping" sentiment.

To me, the "good guys" are law enforcement. I trust the police to know what to do in these situations. I do not trust private citizens to know what to do. Not around my children.

 

[ATC1]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

Do those idiots have concealed carry licenses? If not, then why is the gun free zone relevant? If so, as noted earlier, we should also be making the requirements for concealed carry permits much more rigorous.Edit: yes, what moleculo just said.

Sometimes, yes, they do have concealed carry permits. And it's relevant no matter what because you can carry guns in ways other than concealed. For instance "open".

So how is that different than making the requirements much more rigorous for carrying (concealed or not) in certain places? Make the law such that "an idiot" can't carry (concealed or not), but that someone who is able to help can.

I'm all for that. Watch and see what happens when you suggest making it extraordinarily difficult to get a permit to carry openly and concealed. Guess whether people would rather spend a bunch of time, effort, and money doing that or just have gun free zones. The gun free zones were a compromise.

That is not working IMHO.

 

[Apes with Guns]

Arming teachers seems to be a decent approach, but how long will it last? The first time a teacher feels threatened by a kid and decides to whip out their piece, or even shoot the kid, will this country just accept that?

Anti-gun contingent: Uh, yeah, that's what guns do. Kill people.Pro-gun contingent: How dare you use this occasion to push your agenda. You like it when these things happen because it allows you to get on your soapbox.

We're ####ed contingent: Hey, who wants to grab some tacos?

a few years ago, a special education teacher was stabbed to death by a student with a history of violence.

My link

This was the first thing I thought about when people started bringing up the arm the teachers solution. If the teacher had been armed, he could defend himself, and might possibly be alive. However, I don't think he would still be employed. I think he would have been vilified loudly enough that he would have lost his job, and perhaps seen jail time. Or perhaps not, but I think we would quickly lose sight of why we armed teachers in the first place, and start looking for ways to disarm them.

 

[Borat]

Maybe I'm just in a weird mood, but this really had me cracking up when I saw somebody post it on facebook (and mean it seriously):http://imageshack.us/a/img542/503/56378042326618108702420.jpg

 

[RCon]

So how is that different than making the requirements much more rigorous for carrying (concealed or not) in certain places? Make the law such that "an idiot" can't carry (concealed or not), but that someone who is able to help can.

I'm all for that. Watch and see what happens when you suggest making it extraordinarily difficult to get a permit to carry openly and concealed. Guess whether people would rather spend a bunch of time, effort, and money doing that or just have gun free zones. The gun free zones were a compromise.

It may have been a compromise, but I'm saying it was a stupid compromise since it effectively gives us the worst of both sides (bad guys who ignore the law and good guys who can't help).

 

[Henry Ford]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because when some gang banger or other idiot shows up on campus with a gun, he should be locked away without having to pull the trigger first. By the way, this happens a lot more often than school shootings do.

Do those idiots have concealed carry licenses? If not, then why is the gun free zone relevant? If so, as noted earlier, we should also be making the requirements for concealed carry permits much more rigorous.Edit: yes, what moleculo just said.

Sometimes, yes, they do have concealed carry permits. And it's relevant no matter what because you can carry guns in ways other than concealed. For instance "open".

So how is that different than making the requirements much more rigorous for carrying (concealed or not) in certain places? Make the law such that "an idiot" can't carry (concealed or not), but that someone who is able to help can.

I'm all for that. Watch and see what happens when you suggest making it extraordinarily difficult to get a permit to carry openly and concealed. Guess whether people would rather spend a bunch of time, effort, and money doing that or just have gun free zones. The gun free zones were a compromise.

That is not working IMHO.

I agree. But no one's going to agree to the one that might work better, which is "only people who aren't dip##### get to carry guns outside of their homes, and we're going to run a lot of tests to see if you're a dip####."

 

[Apes with Guns]

Arming teachers seems to be a decent approach, but how long will it last? The first time a teacher feels threatened by a kid and decides to whip out their piece, or even shoot the kid, will this country just accept that?

I think we can all agree that Apes should not have guns.

Disagree.

 

[Apple Jack]

Maybe I'm just in a weird mood, but this really had me cracking up when I saw somebody post it on facebook (and mean it seriously):http://imageshack.us/a/img542/503/56378042326618108702420.jpg

I have one of those guys. He's in my hall of fame and one of the few reasons I even look at facebook, as most of my friends don't use it. Dude is wicked awesome. I know he was a local cop at one point and I'm pretty sure he was fired.