***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (5 Viewers)

[5 digit know nothing]

From personal experience I knew two people who committed suicide. Both were under 20, both were by firearm. I would never joke about suicide.

So the guns made them do it? If they there were no guns in the world, would they still be here today?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

This doesn't seem like an unanswerable question. What are the suicide rates like in countries with fewer firearms?

 

[StrikeS2k]

President Obama made a very moving speech today. Public opinion is definitely moving in his direction, and the gun nuts are becoming a minority, though loud and crazed. The NRA is running robocalls and ads in Newtown, Connecticut, which is really disgusting and tasteless, but that's typical for them. If the Dems are willing to separate the bills being voted on, then I really believe we might get something done- particularly the background checks. The public has had enough of the NRA extremists.

Where do you get this stuff? Public support for new gun control legislation is flagging as we get further and further away from Newtown, hence the need for Obama to make a speech to try to revive the issue. The only way they get anything done is if they separate the bills, yes. This is not a sign of the public having enough of the NRA extremists. It means their position is weakening (which disappoints me).I'm not a Tim-hater by any means but you're coming off very poorly in this thread.

Public support for the gun control that I want (background checks) is still very high-91% at last count. If you had read my previous posts about pluralism, you would understand that it's not public support that is flagging but rather the attention span- a reluctant Congress is more concerned with a loud minority than a quiet majority, no matter how big that majority is. That's why Obama spoke- to energize the already existing large majority of Americans who agree with him on this issue.

I'm pretty sure Obama's version of gun control differs greatly from yours.Oh, and

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

This doesn't seem like an unanswerable question. What are the suicide rates like in countries with fewer firearms?

Harvard study -- clearly liberal bias because it's Harvard.Anyway, seems like there's a correlation. More guns = more successful suicides.

 

[Rayderr]

This doesn't seem like an unanswerable question. What are the suicide rates like in countries with fewer firearms?

Link.I don't know what the gun laws are for all the countries (or what the hell is wrong with Greenland) but we're near identical to the UK.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

This doesn't seem like an unanswerable question. What are the suicide rates like in countries with fewer firearms?

Hmmm how could we find that answer?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

This doesn't seem like an unanswerable question. What are the suicide rates like in countries with fewer firearms?

Link.I don't know what the gun laws are for all the countries (or what the hell is wrong with Greenland) but we're near identical to the UK.

Oh and hey look at China and Japan...so much for that brilliant theory.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Hmmm, the international comparison seems to differ from the state-by-state comparison.

 

[Rayderr]

Hmmm, the international comparison seems to differ from the state-by-state comparison.

The reality is, suicide is a very complicated issue. The factors as to why a person commits suicide varies. But to assume that getting rid of guns means no more suicides is a bit ridiculous. Not too long ago Storage Wars star Mark Balero committed suicide. He did it the old fashioned way. Sitting in a garage with his car running.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Hmmm, the international comparison seems to differ from the state-by-state comparison.

The reality is, suicide is a very complicated issue. The factors as to why a person commits suicide varies. But to assume that getting rid of guns means no more suicides is a bit ridiculous. Not too long ago Storage Wars star Mark Balero committed suicide. He did it the old fashioned way. Sitting in a garage with his car running.

Nobody's saying getting rid of guns means no more suicides. But the Harvard link seems to suggest that fewer guns = fewer suicides.

 

[Apple Jack]

From personal experience I knew two people who committed suicide. Both were under 20, both were by firearm. I would never joke about suicide.

So the guns made them do it? If they there were no guns in the world, would they still be here today?

Do you know any actual people? Like real live people? Some of the things you say seem to have absolutely no real world experience behind them.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

From personal experience I knew two people who committed suicide. Both were under 20, both were by firearm. I would never joke about suicide.

So the guns made them do it? If they there were no guns in the world, would they still be here today?

Do you know any actual people? Like real live people? Some of the things you say seem to have absolutely no real world experience behind them.

Keep fighting the good fight, you make no sense.

 

[Sabertooth]

Is it true that almost 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides?

Yes. From the CDC (for 2010):11,078 Firearm Homicides

19,392 Firearm Suicides

So restricting access to guns might actually reduce suicide then, correct? Tough to blow your brains out when you can't get a gun.

I am assuming this is a joke.

No, it's actually pretty logical.

So someone has come to the tremendous decision of deciding to end their life and you guys think that they will be deterred by inability to locate a firearm? (which is a stretch as it is, since there will be an even more massive black market for guns that will surface as soon as they're illegal) We going to make tylenol illegal too? Razor blades? You guys ever played whac-a-mole? That is kinda how this sort of thing works.

Cmon.... you guys gotta turn your brains ON if we're going actually discuss this stuff.

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Is it true that almost 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides?

Yes. From the CDC (for 2010):11,078 Firearm Homicides

19,392 Firearm Suicides

So restricting access to guns might actually reduce suicide then, correct? Tough to blow your brains out when you can't get a gun.

I am assuming this is a joke.

No, it's actually pretty logical.

So someone has come to the tremendous decision of deciding to end their life and you guys think that they will be deterred by inability to locate a firearm? (which is a stretch as it is, since there will be an even more massive black market for guns that will surface as soon as they're illegal) We going to make tylenol illegal too? Razor blades? You guys ever played whac-a-mole? That is kinda how this sort of thing works.

Cmon.... you guys gotta turn your brains ON if we're going actually discuss this stuff.

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

Yes "Harvard"

My own view on gun control is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned.

Deborah Prothrow-StithDean of the Harvard School of Public Health

 

[Rayderr]

Is it true that almost 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides?

Yes. From the CDC (for 2010):11,078 Firearm Homicides

19,392 Firearm Suicides

So restricting access to guns might actually reduce suicide then, correct? Tough to blow your brains out when you can't get a gun.

I am assuming this is a joke.

No, it's actually pretty logical.

So someone has come to the tremendous decision of deciding to end their life and you guys think that they will be deterred by inability to locate a firearm? (which is a stretch as it is, since there will be an even more massive black market for guns that will surface as soon as they're illegal) We going to make tylenol illegal too? Razor blades? You guys ever played whac-a-mole? That is kinda how this sort of thing works.

Cmon.... you guys gotta turn your brains ON if we're going actually discuss this stuff.

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

One thing it doesn't take into account is those that get a gun to commit suicide.

 

[Sabertooth]

Is it true that almost 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides?

Yes. From the CDC (for 2010):11,078 Firearm Homicides

19,392 Firearm Suicides

So restricting access to guns might actually reduce suicide then, correct? Tough to blow your brains out when you can't get a gun.

I am assuming this is a joke.

No, it's actually pretty logical.

So someone has come to the tremendous decision of deciding to end their life and you guys think that they will be deterred by inability to locate a firearm? (which is a stretch as it is, since there will be an even more massive black market for guns that will surface as soon as they're illegal) We going to make tylenol illegal too? Razor blades? You guys ever played whac-a-mole? That is kinda how this sort of thing works.

Cmon.... you guys gotta turn your brains ON if we're going actually discuss this stuff.

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

Yes "Harvard"

My own view on gun control is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned.

Deborah Prothrow-StithDean of the Harvard School of Public Health

I'm assuming you don't have an argument against the facts presented.

 

[Sabertooth]

Hmmm, the international comparison seems to differ from the state-by-state comparison.

The reality is, suicide is a very complicated issue. The factors as to why a person commits suicide varies. But to assume that getting rid of guns means no more suicides is a bit ridiculous. Not too long ago Storage Wars star Mark Balero committed suicide. He did it the old fashioned way. Sitting in a garage with his car running.

Nobody's saying getting rid of guns means no more suicides. But the Harvard link seems to suggest that fewer guns = fewer suicides.

this.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

One thing it doesn't take into account is those that get a gun to commit suicide.

Which way do you think that cuts?

 

[Apple Jack]

From personal experience I knew two people who committed suicide. Both were under 20, both were by firearm. I would never joke about suicide.

So the guns made them do it? If they there were no guns in the world, would they still be here today?

Do you know any actual people? Like real live people? Some of the things you say seem to have absolutely no real world experience behind them.

Keep fighting the good fight, you make no sense.

Okay, let me try to help you out here. With people, like flesh and blood humans (not some imaginary idea you have in the abstract about what you think people might be like), suicide is often a fleeting impulse. There is a wide spectrum of length and severity of these suicidal impulses in people who are suicidal. For some it's more to do with external variables that come and go. For some it's a shade of depression but only comes around rarely and those impulses are brief and then they're gone. Others deal with it for days, weeks, months, or years at a time. Those are the people more likely to be int he garage. The mild impulse people are the ones that are far less likely to act if there is not that swift, clean, painless option of pulling a trigger and going blank. With that option, it's done before that brief impulse passes.As for fighting the good fight, that's all you. You are completely obsessed with your pro-gun stance and you don't even own a gun. Think about that for a minute. Aren't there other more important issues more worthy of your expertise? Because you clearly haven't the slightest effing clue what you're talking about here. Again.

 

[timschochet]

Is it true that almost 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides?

Yes. From the CDC (for 2010):11,078 Firearm Homicides

19,392 Firearm Suicides

So restricting access to guns might actually reduce suicide then, correct? Tough to blow your brains out when you can't get a gun.

I am assuming this is a joke.

No, it's actually pretty logical.

So someone has come to the tremendous decision of deciding to end their life and you guys think that they will be deterred by inability to locate a firearm? (which is a stretch as it is, since there will be an even more massive black market for guns that will surface as soon as they're illegal) We going to make tylenol illegal too? Razor blades? You guys ever played whac-a-mole? That is kinda how this sort of thing works.

Cmon.... you guys gotta turn your brains ON if we're going actually discuss this stuff.

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

Yes "Harvard"

My own view on gun control is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned.

Deborah Prothrow-StithDean of the Harvard School of Public Health

I'm assuming you don't have an argument against the facts presented.

He never does.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

From personal experience I knew two people who committed suicide. Both were under 20, both were by firearm. I would never joke about suicide.

So the guns made them do it? If they there were no guns in the world, would they still be here today?

Do you know any actual people? Like real live people? Some of the things you say seem to have absolutely no real world experience behind them.

Keep fighting the good fight, you make no sense.

Okay, let me try to help you out here. With people, like flesh and blood humans (not some imaginary idea you have in the abstract about what you think people might be like), suicide is often a fleeting impulse. There is a wide spectrum length and severity of these suicidal impulses. For some it only comes around rarely and those impulses are brief and then they're gone. Others deal with it for days, weeks, months, or years at a time. Those are the people more likely to be int he car. The mild impulse people are the ones that are far less likely to act if there is not that swift, clean, painless option of pulling a trigger and going blank. With that option, it's done before that brief impulse passes.As for fighting the good fight, that's all you. You are completely obsessed with your pro-gun stance and you don't even own a gun. Think about that for a minute. Aren't there other more important issues more worthy of your expertise?

1. China2. Japan3. Why are you so obsessed with what I care about? Why does owning a gun matter, do I need to be gay to support marriage equality? Get over yourself.

 

[Rayderr]

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

One thing it doesn't take into account is those that get a gun to commit suicide.

Which way do you think that cuts?

I'd say those that are contemplating suicide may buy a gun in case they ever decide to go through with it because it is the fastest and most effective way. But that does not mean that lack of access to one means they will not attempt suicide.

 

[Sabertooth]

From personal experience I knew two people who committed suicide. Both were under 20, both were by firearm. I would never joke about suicide.

So the guns made them do it? If they there were no guns in the world, would they still be here today?

Do you know any actual people? Like real live people? Some of the things you say seem to have absolutely no real world experience behind them.

Keep fighting the good fight, you make no sense.

Okay, let me try to help you out here. With people, like flesh and blood humans (not some imaginary idea you have in the abstract about what you think people might be like), suicide is often a fleeting impulse. There is a wide spectrum length and severity of these suicidal impulses. For some it only comes around rarely and those impulses are brief and then they're gone. Others deal with it for days, weeks, months, or years at a time. Those are the people more likely to be int he car. The mild impulse people are the ones that are far less likely to act if there is not that swift, clean, painless option of pulling a trigger and going blank. With that option, it's done before that brief impulse passes.As for fighting the good fight, that's all you. You are completely obsessed with your pro-gun stance and you don't even own a gun. Think about that for a minute. Aren't there other more important issues more worthy of your expertise?

1. China2. Japan3. Why are you so obsessed with what I care about? Why does owning a gun matter, do I need to be gay to support marriage equality? Get over yourself.

You are getting own3d here by a 4 digiter. You remind me of Daniel Larusso when he first arrives in Cali and goes to the beach bonfire.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

One thing it doesn't take into account is those that get a gun to commit suicide.

Which way do you think that cuts?

I'd say those that are contemplating suicide may buy a gun in case they ever decide to go through with it because it is the fastest and most effective way. But that does not mean that lack of access to one means they will not attempt suicide.

I don't really understand your answer. Do you think the factor you've stated (sometimes non-gun owning people buy a gun for the purpose of committing suicide) means that there's a greater correlation between gun availability and suicide or a lesser correlation than the ones cited in those studies at the Harvard link?

 

[Jewell]

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

Just to expand on that study regarding guns being used for suicide, the Washington Post had an extensive article last weekend, filled with facts and figures, regarding guns being used for suicide vs. guns being used for homicide. Juan Williams followed it up with a Wall Street Journal article a few days later.

Both interesting reads.

 

[Rayderr]

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

One thing it doesn't take into account is those that get a gun to commit suicide.

Which way do you think that cuts?

I'd say those that are contemplating suicide may buy a gun in case they ever decide to go through with it because it is the fastest and most effective way. But that does not mean that lack of access to one means they will not attempt suicide.

I don't really understand your answer. Do you think the factor you've stated (sometimes non-gun owning people buy a gun for the purpose of committing suicide) means that there's a greater correlation between gun availability and suicide or a lesser correlation than the ones cited in those studies at the Harvard link?

It simply means that people may own guns for the sake of committing suicide, but if they can't/don't get one, they will probably use some other method (like Brad Delp. 2 charcoal grills in his bathroom.)

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Yes "Harvard"

My own view on gun control is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned.

Deborah Prothrow-StithDean of the Harvard School of Public Health

I'm assuming you don't have an argument against the facts presented.

It's a ridiculous argument.What's the #1 state in the U.S. for suicides? Alaska.

Population of Alaska: 731,449

Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 (most recent) by state

1. Washington D.C. @ 31.2 - how many firearms per capita are there in Washington D.C.?

2. Alaska @ 20.0

Do you really think guns are the CAUSE of the high suicide rate in Alaska? Have you ever lived in Alaska?

You are not presenting facts that support a hypothesis that can be applied on a country by country basis. We've been over this dead horse too many times in this thread when people said guns CAUSE homicides. They don't.

Article

Hungary has what would be considered strict gun laws by American standards, as well as a very low rate of suicide by gun -- less than 1 per 100,000 end their lives with a firearm. Yet, despite limited access to guns and a national attitude that seems set against shooting oneself, Hungary has a suicide rate near that of the 49th state.

Their suicide death rate is 21.8 per 100,000 people. Ours is 22.6 per 100,000. Hungary's rate for suicide by gunshot is 0.88 per 100,000. Our rate for suicide by gunshot is 14.8 per 100,000. How many of those 14.8 would still be alive if not for guns is hard to say. Hungarians seem to do quite well by jumping off bridges or overdosing on drugs.

That said, there is one important detail about the suicide death rate in Hungary worth noting: There used to be far more suicides -- more than twice as many as today -- in that country.

The states listed in your article with the "highest firearm prevalance"...

The authors compared the 40 million people who live in the states with the lowest firearm prevalence (HI, MA, RI, NJ, CT, NY) to about the same number living in the states with the highest firearm prevalence (WY, SD, AK, WV, MT, AR, MS, ID, ND, AL, KY, WI, LA, TN, UT).

I'd probably kill myself too if I had to live in (m)any of those states

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I don't really understand your answer. Do you think the factor you've stated (sometimes non-gun owning people buy a gun for the purpose of committing suicide) means that there's a greater correlation between gun availability and suicide or a lesser correlation than the ones cited in those studies at the Harvard link?

It simply means that people may own guns for the sake of committing suicide, but if they can't/don't get one, they will probably use some other method (like Brad Delp. 2 charcoal grills in his bathroom.)

I thought you were trying to address something that wasn't discussed in those Harvard links. The notion that other methods of suicide will be used is squarely addressed there.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

One thing it doesn't take into account is those that get a gun to commit suicide.

Which way do you think that cuts?

I'd say those that are contemplating suicide may buy a gun in case they ever decide to go through with it because it is the fastest and most effective way. But that does not mean that lack of access to one means they will not attempt suicide.

I'd be curious to see the length of gun ownership correlated to the suicides. I know a guy that committed suicide in New York City, he bought a gun (probably illegally) and killed himself. It's little details like this that will not be uncovered in Harvard's biased agenda.

 

[Sabertooth]

Harvard seems to agree with me. My link

One thing it doesn't take into account is those that get a gun to commit suicide.

Which way do you think that cuts?

I'd say those that are contemplating suicide may buy a gun in case they ever decide to go through with it because it is the fastest and most effective way. But that does not mean that lack of access to one means they will not attempt suicide.

I'd be curious to see the length of gun ownership correlated to the suicides. I know a guy that committed suicide in New York City, he bought a gun (probably illegally) and killed himself. It's little details like this that will not be uncovered in Harvard's biased agenda.

He would probably have found a different way to do it in the absence of gun availability. But others would not.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Gun Supply, Homicide and Suicide Trends

Everyone knows the gun supply is going through the roof, why are suicides declining??

 

[Sabertooth]

Gun Supply, Homicide and Suicide Trends

Everyone knows the gun supply is going through the roof, why are suicides declining??

It appears to be tied to having a Democratic President. Hope perhaps?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Gun Supply, Homicide and Suicide Trends

Everyone knows the gun supply is going through the roof, why are suicides declining??

It appears to be tied to having a Democratic President. Hope perhaps?

So this suicide risk factor only applies to the homes they surveyed in the geographical locations that support their hypothesis? Got it.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Gun Supply, Homicide and Suicide Trends

Everyone knows the gun supply is going through the roof, why are suicides declining??

What do the numbers on the right side of the graph mean?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Gun Supply, Homicide and Suicide Trends

Everyone knows the gun supply is going through the roof, why are suicides declining??

What do the numbers on the right side of the graph mean?

Years, Guns, and RateAbout half of the time gun stock increases have been accompanied by violence decreases, and about half the time accompanied by violence increases, just what one would expect if gun levels had no net impact on violence rates. The rate of gun suicide is correlated with trends in the size of the gun or handgun stock, but the rate of total suicide is not, supporting a substitution argument--when guns are scarce, suicide attempters substitute other methods, with no effect on the total number who die. Trends in the size of the cumulated gun or handgun stock have no consistent correlation with crime rates.

 

[Apple Jack]

Gun Supply, Homicide and Suicide Trends

Everyone knows the gun supply is going through the roof, why are suicides declining??

What do the numbers on the right side of the graph mean?

 

[zDragon]

Is it true that almost 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides?

Yes. From the CDC (for 2010):11,078 Firearm Homicides

19,392 Firearm Suicides

So restricting access to guns might actually reduce suicide then, correct? Tough to blow your brains out when you can't get a gun.

Why would it reduce the number of suicides? Just because they can not get a gun does not mean they will not commit suicide in a different way.Just as an example not using guns. If Aokigahara Suicide Forest is fenced in and locked would there be less suicides or would the people who wander there simply choose another spot?

 

[Sabertooth]

Is it true that almost 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides?

Yes. From the CDC (for 2010):11,078 Firearm Homicides

19,392 Firearm Suicides

So restricting access to guns might actually reduce suicide then, correct? Tough to blow your brains out when you can't get a gun.

Why would it reduce the number of suicides? Just because they can not get a gun does not mean they will not commit suicide in a different way.Just as an example not using guns. If Aokigahara Suicide Forest is fenced in and locked would there be less suicides or would the people who wander there simply choose another spot?

I'm not sure why is does reduce suicides, I'm not a psychologist. But the fact remains.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Why would it reduce the number of suicides? Just because they can not get a gun does not mean they will not commit suicide in a different way.

The Harvard stuff linked earlier says it is due to lethality:

12. The case-fatality rate for suicide attempts with guns is higher than other methodsAcross the Northeast, case fatality rates ranged from over 90% for firearms to under 5% for drug overdoses, cutting and piercing (the most common methods of attempted suicide). Hospital workers rarely see the type of suicide (firearm suicide) that is most likely to end in death.Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The epidemiology of case fatality rates for suicide in the Northeast. Annals of Emergency Medicine. 2004; 723-30.

 

[[icon]]

Why would it reduce the number of suicides? Just because they can not get a gun does not mean they will not commit suicide in a different way.

The Harvard stuff linked earlier says it is due to lethality:

12. The case-fatality rate for suicide attempts with guns is higher than other methodsAcross the Northeast, case fatality rates ranged from over 90% for firearms to under 5% for drug overdoses, cutting and piercing (the most common methods of attempted suicide). Hospital workers rarely see the type of suicide (firearm suicide) that is most likely to end in death.Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The epidemiology of case fatality rates for suicide in the Northeast. Annals of Emergency Medicine. 2004; 723-30.

No way you can rely on that data for a few reasons:1) People use guns to kill themselves are serious about it. 2) PEople who are cry for help types often half slit their wrists or take a barely lethal dose of stuff then call 911 Those two facts alone distort the numbers greatly. Now two more facts:3) MOTIVATION: Remove guns from the equation and people who are motivated will still find a way to end their lives. 4) CAPACITY: The lethality rate of pills, hanging, jumping off a bridge, slitting wrists, etc is very easy to bump to the same effectiveness as a gun if the person so desires. Soo.... yeah... I think those numbers are DRAMATICALLY skewed.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Why would it reduce the number of suicides? Just because they can not get a gun does not mean they will not commit suicide in a different way.

The Harvard stuff linked earlier says it is due to lethality:

12. The case-fatality rate for suicide attempts with guns is higher than other methodsAcross the Northeast, case fatality rates ranged from over 90% for firearms to under 5% for drug overdoses, cutting and piercing (the most common methods of attempted suicide). Hospital workers rarely see the type of suicide (firearm suicide) that is most likely to end in death.Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The epidemiology of case fatality rates for suicide in the Northeast. Annals of Emergency Medicine. 2004; 723-30.

No way you can rely on that data for a few reasons:1) People use guns to kill themselves are serious about it. 2) PEople who are cry for help types often half slit their wrists or take a barely lethal dose of stuff then call 911 Those two facts alone distort the numbers greatly. Now two more facts:3) MOTIVATION: Remove guns from the equation and people who are motivated will still find a way to end their lives. 4) CAPACITY: The lethality rate of pills, hanging, jumping off a bridge, slitting wrists, etc is very easy to bump to the same effectiveness as a gun if the person so desires. Soo.... yeah... I think those numbers are DRAMATICALLY skewed.

So in your view, suicides wouldn't be reduced if we dramatically decreased gun ownership?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

No way you can rely on that data for a few reasons:1) People use guns to kill themselves are serious about it. 2) PEople who are cry for help types often half slit their wrists or take a barely lethal dose of stuff then call 911 Those two facts alone distort the numbers greatly.

I think these would be pretty reasonable criticisms if that was the only statistic cited, but the Harvard link has a bunch of other studies that suggest a correlation between gun access and number of suicides.

 

[timschochet]

Why all this discussion about suicides anyhow? We're not going to decrease gun ownership in this country- there's no way to do it even if we wanted to. The only gun control measures on the table involve more background checks, a possible ban on high bullet magazines, and a possible ban on certain scary looking semi-automatic rifles. None of those has anything to do with suicide.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Why all this discussion about suicides anyhow? We're not going to decrease gun ownership in this country- there's no way to do it even if we wanted to. The only gun control measures on the table involve more background checks, a possible ban on high bullet magazines, and a possible ban on certain scary looking semi-automatic rifles. None of those has anything to do with suicide.

When gun nuts like icon can't even concede the point that reducing firearms would reduce suicides, there's not much point in involving them in the discussion. They're allergic to facts.

 

[timschochet]

I'm reading a book by CNN blogger Michael Wolraich about the origins of the current conservative movement, including the NRA extremism, and I had no idea how much Charlton Heston contributed to the current paranoia. Here is part of a speech he gave on behalf of the NRA in 1997, the year he took over its presidency:

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on our coats?

Rank and file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens...Heaven help the God-fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle-class, Protestant, or- even worse- Evangelical Christian, Midwest, or Southern, or- even worse- rural, apparently straight, or -even worse- admittedly heterosexual, gun-owning, or-even worse- NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff, or- even worse- male working stiff, because not only don't you count, you're a downright obstacle to social progress.

But mainstream America is depending on you- counting on you- to draw your sword and fight for them. Fight for them against the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it's a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other, and all the New-Age apologists for juvenile crime, who see roving gangs as a means of youthful expression, sex as a means of adolescent merchandising, violence as a form of entertainment for impressionable minds, and gun bans as a means to lord-knows-what.

Given this type of speech by the biggest hero of the gun movement, is it any wonder that so many of the gun nuts are so paranoid and delusional?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Why all this discussion about suicides anyhow? We're not going to decrease gun ownership in this country- there's no way to do it even if we wanted to. The only gun control measures on the table involve more background checks, a possible ban on high bullet magazines, and a possible ban on certain scary looking semi-automatic rifles. None of those has anything to do with suicide.

When gun nuts like icon can't even concede the point that reducing firearms would reduce suicides, there's not much point in involving them in the discussion. They're allergic to facts.

WTF cares about suicides? What relevance do suicides have in the topic of gun control for the purpose of preventing mass shootings? And as far as ignoring facts:

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

WTF cares about suicides?

I think suicides are usually bad.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I'm reading a book by CNN blogger Michael Wolraich about the origins of the current conservative movement, including the NRA extremism, and I had no idea how much Charlton Heston contributed to the current paranoia. Here is part of a speech he gave on behalf of the NRA in 1997, the year he took over its presidency:

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on our coats?

Rank and file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens...Heaven help the God-fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle-class, Protestant, or- even worse- Evangelical Christian, Midwest, or Southern, or- even worse- rural, apparently straight, or -even worse- admittedly heterosexual, gun-owning, or-even worse- NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff, or- even worse- male working stiff, because not only don't you count, you're a downright obstacle to social progress.

But mainstream America is depending on you- counting on you- to draw your sword and fight for them. Fight for them against the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it's a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other, and all the New-Age apologists for juvenile crime, who see roving gangs as a means of youthful expression, sex as a means of adolescent merchandising, violence as a form of entertainment for impressionable minds, and gun bans as a means to lord-knows-what.

Given this type of speech by the biggest hero of the gun movement, is it any wonder that so many of the gun nuts are so paranoid and delusional?

I like guns.

I don't like Charlton Heston.

I dislike you even more.

This speech was made nearly 30 years ago.

 

[timschochet]

I'm reading a book by CNN blogger Michael Wolraich about the origins of the current conservative movement, including the NRA extremism, and I had no idea how much Charlton Heston contributed to the current paranoia. Here is part of a speech he gave on behalf of the NRA in 1997, the year he took over its presidency:

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on our coats?

Rank and file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens...Heaven help the God-fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle-class, Protestant, or- even worse- Evangelical Christian, Midwest, or Southern, or- even worse- rural, apparently straight, or -even worse- admittedly heterosexual, gun-owning, or-even worse- NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff, or- even worse- male working stiff, because not only don't you count, you're a downright obstacle to social progress.

But mainstream America is depending on you- counting on you- to draw your sword and fight for them. Fight for them against the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it's a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other, and all the New-Age apologists for juvenile crime, who see roving gangs as a means of youthful expression, sex as a means of adolescent merchandising, violence as a form of entertainment for impressionable minds, and gun bans as a means to lord-knows-what.

Given this type of speech by the biggest hero of the gun movement, is it any wonder that so many of the gun nuts are so paranoid and delusional?

I like guns.

I don't like Charlton Heston.

I dislike you even more.

This speech was made nearly 30 years ago.

The source I have says 1997. Not that it matters to my point. I'm sorry you dislike me. It's not mutual.

 

[[icon]]

Why all this discussion about suicides anyhow? We're not going to decrease gun ownership in this country- there's no way to do it even if we wanted to. The only gun control measures on the table involve more background checks, a possible ban on high bullet magazines, and a possible ban on certain scary looking semi-automatic rifles. None of those has anything to do with suicide.

When gun nuts like icon can't even concede the point that reducing firearms would reduce suicides, there's not much point in involving them in the discussion. They're allergic to facts.

I own two subcompact CCW pistols. I can fit my gun collection in the pockets the pair of jeans I'm wearing.

By that definition you're "a black rubber dildo nut"