***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (2 Viewers)

[Chaka]

And to answer your question I think banning a weapon for a particular characteristic is difficult, I support banning automatic weapons, grenade and rocket launchers and the like for sure but beyond that I am not sure how effective it would be. I need to do more research on that issue.

 

[Chaka]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:
-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

I knew that was the issue you were addressing. A point that teeters on this claim above.. this is the part you have to prove.. without this bit of evidence your point is not valid.. And even if you have a valid claim, it's rather ridiculous to hang the entire history of NRA and gun safety laws on that one incident, especially when you only have an anti-gun painted understanding of the amendment..

 

[5 digit know nothing]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

 

[FootballDummy]

Any thread that Carolina Hustler is in, take the opposite position. He's that dumb. This is my advice.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Any thread that Carolina Hustler is in, take the opposite position. He's that dumb. This is my advice.

Im kinda glad his idiocy is less on display in the shark pool, because he banters in the ffa more nowadays.

 

[Chaka]

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

I knew that was the issue you were addressing. A point that teeters on this claim above.. this is the part you have to prove.. without this bit of evidence your point is not valid.. And even if you have a valid claim, it's rather ridiculous to hang the entire history of NRA and gun safety laws on that one incident, especially when you only have an anti-gun painted understanding of the amendment..

Yeah, of course. You need me to grab my digital camera and catch them in the act. I will rely on the Washington Post for this one. I am sorry if you think it is somehow outrageous that one of the largest lobbying groups in the country would have the ability to substantially influence legislation. Lobbying groups write parts of legislation all the time, I imagine they often show up with language in hand.

I knew this would fall on deaf ears.

 

[Chaka]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

While I greatly appreciate your dismissive statements why don't you do it again? Or link to one of the multiple posts that tell us why you are so scared of the government doing a background check.

 

[Chaka]

It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there,

This from the guy who posted a 137 page PDF from a congressional hearing that you likely did not bother to read.

 

[timschochet]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

Afraid of the black helicopters again?Honestly, this is just so paranoid and dumb. The Feds know your Social Security number. They know where you live and what car you drive and how much you earn. But all of that is ok so long as they don't know what guns you own. So ####### delusional.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

Afraid of the black helicopters again?Honestly, this is just so paranoid and dumb. The Feds know your Social Security number. They know where you live and what car you drive and how much you earn. But all of that is ok so long as they don't know what guns you own. So ####### delusional.

Last I checked FOIA safeguards all of that sensitive information, but I wouldn't expect you to give two ####s about names, addresses and guns owned by active and retired police officers and victims of domestic abuse being exposed by reporters trying to break a story so your neighbors know who owns guns and who doesn't all to further their political cause. Again you throw the "paranoid" bull#### around even though this has already happened.

 

[ATC1]

Other Louisiana State house bills being discussed.

- A rejected Bill that would require Louisiana residents to acquire and provide proof of firearms training before purchasing any firearm.

Reason: This legislation effectively imposes a tax on the exercise of a fundamental right and unnecessarily restricts Louisianans who cannot afford training courses but have a right and a need to lawfully possess and own a firearm.

Don't really agree with there not needing to be stricter training for being able to carry then already enforced. Current CCP classes include laws, scenerios and a shooting test, not really an actual self defense active shooter training course.

- A bill passed in the house that would allow CCP holder to carry concealed weapons into restaurants that serve alcohol. Currently CCP holders can not carry anywhere where open container alcohol is served.

I can see not letting CCP holders not carry in a bar, but should be able to carry in a resturant.

- A bill which would require reporting to a federal database the names of offenders in court cases who plead based on an insanity defense or lack of mental capacity and those who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution. The national database is used to gather information on those people who are ineligible to purchase a firearm because they are either felons or because of mental illness. There is a provision in the legislation that would allow for restoration of firearm rights if the individual is clear from a mental health provider.

Seems pretty straight forward regaurding people with mental health issues should not own a gun.

 

[mad sweeney]

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

I knew that was the issue you were addressing. A point that teeters on this claim above.. this is the part you have to prove.. without this bit of evidence your point is not valid.. And even if you have a valid claim, it's rather ridiculous to hang the entire history of NRA and gun safety laws on that one incident, especially when you only have an anti-gun painted understanding of the amendment..

Way to stick it to him Jellyfish! Make him back up his claims! I mean, you'd do the same, right?!

 

[timschochet]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

Afraid of the black helicopters again?Honestly, this is just so paranoid and dumb. The Feds know your Social Security number. They know where you live and what car you drive and how much you earn. But all of that is ok so long as they don't know what guns you own. So ####### delusional.

Last I checked FOIA safeguards all of that sensitive information, but I wouldn't expect you to give two ####s about names, addresses and guns owned by active and retired police officers and victims of domestic abuse being exposed by reporters trying to break a story so your neighbors know who owns guns and who doesn't all to further their political cause. Again you throw the "paranoid" bull#### around even though this has already happened.

OMG!! The newspapers reported who owns guns! The end of the world is coming!

 

[Chaka]

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

I knew that was the issue you were addressing. A point that teeters on this claim above.. this is the part you have to prove.. without this bit of evidence your point is not valid.. And even if you have a valid claim, it's rather ridiculous to hang the entire history of NRA and gun safety laws on that one incident, especially when you only have an anti-gun painted understanding of the amendment..

Way to stick it to him Jellyfish! Make him back up his claims! I mean, you'd do the same, right?!

I don't really have a problem with it but I am not sure what kind of evidence he/she is looking for.

Lobbying groups show up with pre-written language that they want to get into legislation all the time. Not sure why that seems so implausible to some.

 

[Chaka]

Last I checked FOIA safeguards all of that sensitive information, but I wouldn't expect you to give two ####s about names, addresses and guns owned by active and retired police officers and victims of domestic abuse being exposed by reporters trying to break a story so your neighbors know who owns guns and who doesn't all to further their political cause. Again you throw the "paranoid" bull#### around even though this has already happened.

I am not sure what you are saying here. Wouldn't gun owner information also be safeguarded by the FOIA? Or is your concern that information will be available via FOIA requests? If I am reading you correctly you are worried that an anti-gun group with an axe to grind will make FOIA requests for all gun owners in America and make that info public? And that the backlash will be that apparently armed victims of domestic abuse will be expose for being armed? Or is the concern for the unarmed victims who would indirectly be exposed as not having a gun for protection?

How to retired police fit into that? Do you think that information will expose them to revenge from criminals they incarcerated?

I sincerely am trying to get a clear understanding of your point here. I am completely open to changing my opinion about a national gun registry. Why would it be a bad thing?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

Afraid of the black helicopters again?Honestly, this is just so paranoid and dumb. The Feds know your Social Security number. They know where you live and what car you drive and how much you earn. But all of that is ok so long as they don't know what guns you own. So ####### delusional.

Last I checked FOIA safeguards all of that sensitive information, but I wouldn't expect you to give two ####s about names, addresses and guns owned by active and retired police officers and victims of domestic abuse being exposed by reporters trying to break a story so your neighbors know who owns guns and who doesn't all to further their political cause. Again you throw the "paranoid" bull#### around even though this has already happened.

OMG!! The newspapers reported who owns guns! The end of the world is coming!

I bet your reaction would be different if all Muslims or people supporting gay marriage names and addresses were published, you are the biggest hypocrite on this board.

 

[Chaka]

Also 5 digit, since you read the document in its entirety, would you please just tell me the conclusion of that senate ATF hearing document you posted? I am only 30 or so pages in and have not seen anything about their findings and/or consequences to the ATF for that investigation. It's a boring read so far and frankly I don't want to go through the remaining 100+ pages only to find out that there was a finding of no fault or, if they were found at fault that they were punished for their actions.

 

[smotherhook]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

Afraid of the black helicopters again?Honestly, this is just so paranoid and dumb. The Feds know your Social Security number. They know where you live and what car you drive and how much you earn. But all of that is ok so long as they don't know what guns you own. So ####### delusional.

Last I checked FOIA safeguards all of that sensitive information, but I wouldn't expect you to give two ####s about names, addresses and guns owned by active and retired police officers and victims of domestic abuse being exposed by reporters trying to break a story so your neighbors know who owns guns and who doesn't all to further their political cause. Again you throw the "paranoid" bull#### around even though this has already happened.

OMG!! The newspapers reported who owns guns! The end of the world is coming!

what if they reported all of the govt shills that are on these message boards. you would be exposed

 

[timschochet]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

Afraid of the black helicopters again?Honestly, this is just so paranoid and dumb. The Feds know your Social Security number. They know where you live and what car you drive and how much you earn. But all of that is ok so long as they don't know what guns you own. So ####### delusional.

Last I checked FOIA safeguards all of that sensitive information, but I wouldn't expect you to give two ####s about names, addresses and guns owned by active and retired police officers and victims of domestic abuse being exposed by reporters trying to break a story so your neighbors know who owns guns and who doesn't all to further their political cause. Again you throw the "paranoid" bull#### around even though this has already happened.

OMG!! The newspapers reported who owns guns! The end of the world is coming!

I bet your reaction would be different if all Muslims or people supporting gay marriage names and addresses were published, you are the biggest hypocrite on this board.

Of course it would be different. You're talking about somebody's POV and who they are. You're not talking about what they own. The fact that the two are conflated in your mind demonstrates just where your mindset is.

FWIW, I don't think a newspaper should be publishing who owns what guns- that information is private and is not the public's business. But it's hardly the apocalypse that you and others make it out to be, and your notion that it may someday lead to seizure of all guns is simply ludicrous. I have no problem whatsoever with the government keeping lists of who owns what guns- that SHOULD be their business, IMO. It will not infringe upon your rights one iota.

 

[timschochet]

I know I was supposed to give you some info on the NRA influencing gun laws and here is some. Sorry for not getting into much more detail, forgive me but I think no matter what I say it will fall upon deaf ears.

10 years ago Congressman Todd Tiahrt ® Kansas stuck an amendment into a Federal Spending Bill (it was the 2004 funding bill for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments)

This amendment:

-Allowed dealers to ignore police requests for assistance.

-Denied congress access to formerly public crime gun data.

-Ended oversight of used firearm sales.

-Required destruction of background check records within 24 hours.

That amendment was substantially written by the NRA (Washington Post July 21, 2003)

Also we have not had a director of the ATF for six years. B Todd Jones, the acting director of the ATF, is the US Attorney for Minnesota (presumably a full time job in its own right). The senate has not confirmed anyone for the job, and this is required because a provision requiring confirmation was put in the Patriot Act in 2006 by Rep James Sensenbrenner ® Wisconsin. Sensenbrenner also received the NRA Defender of Freedom Award that same year. The notion of anyone receiving a defender of freedom award for anything having to do with strengthening the Patriot Act is disgusting. I am continually shocked that people who claim to be freedom loving Americans would support the PA in any way, shape or form.

There is a lot more info about legislative castration of the ATF if you care to do some research on the issue.

Do you have any idea why those protections were put into place or do you just enjoy reading anti-gun talking points? It's like you went to we-are-anti-gun.com and copy pasta'd everything there, this drivel has been posted over a dozen times in this thread and if you can't understand why it is important to destroy background check information at the federal level within 24 hours you are a lost cause.

Afraid of the black helicopters again?Honestly, this is just so paranoid and dumb. The Feds know your Social Security number. They know where you live and what car you drive and how much you earn. But all of that is ok so long as they don't know what guns you own. So ####### delusional.

Last I checked FOIA safeguards all of that sensitive information, but I wouldn't expect you to give two ####s about names, addresses and guns owned by active and retired police officers and victims of domestic abuse being exposed by reporters trying to break a story so your neighbors know who owns guns and who doesn't all to further their political cause. Again you throw the "paranoid" bull#### around even though this has already happened.

OMG!! The newspapers reported who owns guns! The end of the world is coming!

what if they reported all of the govt shills that are on these message boards. you would be exposed

I've been called a lot of things before, but I think this is the first time I've been referred to as a "govt. shill." Well done.

 

[timschochet]

Here's what I think:

1. Every firearm that is in this country should be registered in a federal database. The database should list the owner of the firearm, along with his social security # and current address.

2. Those who are convicted felons and mentally ill should not be allowed to own firearms; otherwise, anyone over the age of 18 should be allowed to own as many firearms as they wish.

3. Cities and states should not be allowed to ban certain types of firearms. The federal government can ban certain types of firearms, but personally I would only limit this to automatic weapons and more serious ordnance (such as grenades and bombs.)

4. Cities and states CAN ban firearms from certain public areas such as schools, if they so choose.

5. Citizens who legally own firearms should be allowed to carry them if they so wish. You shouldn't have to have a license to carry a concealed weapon.

6. The federal database should not be available under the FOIA. Furthermore, the government has no right to arbitrarily seize guns for any reason. (However, if a gun is used in a crime, the owner of the gun can be held responsible for that usage, even if he didn't commit the crime, and have all of his firearms seized.)

7. All gun transfers or sales must be recorded in the federal database without exception. Breaking this rule will result in fine and/or imprisonment, and seizure of all guns of the seller.

You may agree with this; you may not. But I challenge anyone to explain how what I am proposing would violate the Second Amendment.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Also 5 digit, since you read the document in its entirety, would you please just tell me the conclusion of that senate ATF hearing document you posted? I am only 30 or so pages in and have not seen anything about their findings and/or consequences to the ATF for that investigation. It's a boring read so far and frankly I don't want to go through the remaining 100+ pages only to find out that there was a finding of no fault or, if they were found at fault that they were punished for their actions.

If you really care, read up on FOPA

It concluded that seventy-five percent of ATF prosecutions were "constitutionally improper", especially on Second Amendment issues.

 

[timschochet]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take", it doesn't work - go ahead and say "Israel" and let me know how that turned out.

 

[ATC1]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

 

[timschochet]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

 

[timschochet]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take", it doesn't work - go ahead and say "Israel" and let me know how that turned out.

This is not so. It's to prevent crime.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

I actually have no problem with a background check for anyone, but why in the world could this not be simply changed by executive order?

Obama and others like Bush have been more than happy to use them, seems to make guarantees like this pointless.

 

[eurotrashman]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

 

[ATC1]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

 

[timschochet]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

 

[ATC1]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

I don't see how we can't do this with a gun ownership license. You have a gun, you better have a license or the gun is confiscated and you go to jail. Requirement to get a license? A hunting license for long guns. Saftey and self defense course for protection gun.

 

[timschochet]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

Thats because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system, and it prohibits the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

I don't see how we can't do this with a gun ownership license. You have a gun, you better have a license or the gun is confiscated and you go to jail. Requirement to get a license? A hunting license for long guns. Saftey and self defense course for protection gun.

that's all fine. But if a crime is committed with a gun, then we should be able to trace the gun back to its most recent legal owner. How to do this without a national database?

 

[ATC1]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

Thats because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system, and it prohibits the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

I don't see how we can't do this with a gun ownership license. You have a gun, you better have a license or the gun is confiscated and you go to jail. Requirement to get a license? A hunting license for long guns. Saftey and self defense course for protection gun.

that's all fine. But if a crime is committed with a gun, then we should be able to trace the gun back to its most recent legal owner. How to do this without a national database?

What would this do? The gun will either be reported stolen, unregistered or the owner of the gun would be the criminal.

I agree that more harm to an owner forgetting to file paperwork because they moved. Plus you would first have to have a vote that all private sales would have to go through a licensed dealer. They would have to maintain a complete database themselves. What about a database tracing the gun to a licensed dealer? They would be able to keep track of the transfers and have penalties if any information is released much like a doctor with your health records. From there we would be able to know who last had the gun transferred to them.

 

[timschochet]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

Thats because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system, and it prohibits the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

I don't see how we can't do this with a gun ownership license. You have a gun, you better have a license or the gun is confiscated and you go to jail. Requirement to get a license? A hunting license for long guns. Saftey and self defense course for protection gun.

that's all fine. But if a crime is committed with a gun, then we should be able to trace the gun back to its most recent legal owner. How to do this without a national database?

What would this do? The gun will either be reported stolen, unregistered or the owner of the gun would be the criminal.

I agree that more harm to an owner forgetting to file paperwork because they moved. Plus you would first have to have a vote that all private sales would have to go through a licensed dealer. They would have to maintain a complete database themselves. What about a database tracing the gun to a licensed dealer? They would be able to keep track of the transfers and have penalties if any information is released much like a doctor with your health records. From there we would be able to know who last had the gun transferred to them.

Private sales would not have to go through a licensed dealer- you would simply have to call the database, or contact them online, to complete the sale. Same way as you do selling a car with a pink slip.

You keep trying to avoid having the database go back to the owner of the gun, but that is exactly what I want. I want the government to know who owns every gun in this country because I am convinced it's the only way to fight crime. The comparisons you and others make to private health records, or ethnicity, or political views, make no sense to me whatsoever. To me owning a gun is like owning a car or a home or an RV. What difference if the government knows who owns what? What difference if it's publicized? (Not saying it should be, but who cares?)

The only reason that it bothers gun-owners is because they continue to be fearful that someday the government is going to use this information to seize all guns. IMO, that fear is completely irrational, and should not be used as the basis for rational discourse on this subject.

 

[tommyboy]

And to answer your question I think banning a weapon for a particular characteristic is difficult, I support banning automatic weapons, grenade and rocket launchers and the like for sure but beyond that I am not sure how effective it would be. I need to do more research on that issue.

Obviously you need ti do more research as those items have banned for 80 years

 

[Chaka]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

So? I didn't realize the NRA only began lobbying this year.

Seriously this isn't about getting rid of the NRA. They are not the only lobby group to influence laws and I personally wouldn't want to restrict only the power of the NRA lobby but the power of lobbies in general. On this specific issue my position is not anti-NRA, it's anti-lobbying.

Now I have no idea how much influence the NRA had in the 103rd Congress but I doubt it was insubstantial. Either way I am not looking for someone to blame but for actions we can take to decrease gun violence and an ability to track guns from manufacturers to retailers to purchasers seems like a very good start. Please convince me why it is a bad idea.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

Thats because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system, and it prohibits the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

I don't see how we can't do this with a gun ownership license. You have a gun, you better have a license or the gun is confiscated and you go to jail. Requirement to get a license? A hunting license for long guns. Saftey and self defense course for protection gun.

that's all fine. But if a crime is committed with a gun, then we should be able to trace the gun back to its most recent legal owner. How to do this without a national database?

And then what?

Ask the most recent owner if he comitted the murder??

"I lost my gun." or "My gun was stolen."

 

[Chaka]

Also 5 digit, since you read the document in its entirety, would you please just tell me the conclusion of that senate ATF hearing document you posted? I am only 30 or so pages in and have not seen anything about their findings and/or consequences to the ATF for that investigation. It's a boring read so far and frankly I don't want to go through the remaining 100+ pages only to find out that there was a finding of no fault or, if they were found at fault that they were punished for their actions.

If you really care, read up on FOPA

>It concluded that seventy-five percent of ATF prosecutions were "constitutionally improper", especially on Second Amendment issues.

I do really care but I also care if you are actually knowledgeable about this or googling and pasting as fast as you can. Was the Virginia gun show investigation that you touted as a large ATF abuse valid or was there a finding of no fault? And I still do not see where the harm occurred in interviewing 200 people, confiscating guns from 50 of them and giving most of the guns back.

The tactics employed seem to be pretty much standard operating procedure in law enforcement. Does it only bother you when they are used against gun owners or anyone accused of a crime?

 

[Chaka]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

This seems like a case of letting the perfect interfere with the good. Criminals don't obey laws but we still want laws, no?

Being able to trace the line of custody of a gun from the manufacturer either directly to a criminal or the point in the chain of custody where the gun fell into the hands of a criminal seems like it would be extraordinarily helpful in solving crimes.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

A gun registry does nothing for stolen weapons. Well I shouldn't say "nothing" it would probably victimize innocent owners of the guns used in crimes.

Here are some stats...

NCVS estimates there are 341,000 incidents of firearm theft from private citizens annually from 1987-92. That is not to be confused with weapons, each incident can include multiple firearms.

53% of the thefts of guns were handguns.

According to NCVS almost 43.6 million criminal victimizations occurred in 1993, including 4.4 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault. Of the victims of these violent crimes, 1.3 million (29%) stated that they faced an offender with a firearm.

All stolen guns are available to criminals by definition. Recent studies of adult and juvenile offenders show that many have either stolen a firearm or kept, sold, or traded a stolen firearm.

The 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates found that violent inmates who used a weapon were more likely to use a handgun than any other weapon; 24% of all violent inmates reported that they used a handgun. Of all inmates, 13% reported carrying a handgun when they committed the offense for which they were serving time.

According to the 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those inmates who possessed a handgun, 9% had acquired it through theft and 28% had acquired it through an illegal market such as a drug dealer or fence. Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least one gun, and 11% had sold or traded stolen guns.

Studies of adult and juvenile offenders that the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services conducted in 1992 and 1993 found that 15% of the adult offenders and 19% of the juvenile offenders had stolen guns; 16% of the adults and 24% of the juveniles had kept a stolen gun; and 20% of the adults and 30% of the juveniles had sold or traded a stolen gun.

From a sample of juvenile inmates in four States, Sheley and Wright found that more than 50% had stolen a gun at least once in their lives and 24% had stolen their most recently obtained handgun. They concluded that theft and burglary were the original, not always the proximate, source of many guns acquired by the juveniles.

A study of adult and juvenile offenders by the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services found that juvenile offenders were more likely than adults to have carried a semiautomatic pistol at the crime scene (18% versus 7%).

They also were more likely to have carried a revolver (10% versus 7%). The same proportion of adults and juveniles (3%) carried a shotgun or rifle at the crime scene.

Over half of the guns that police agencies asked ATF to trace were pistols and another quarter were revolvers.

Trace requests represent an unknown portion of all the guns used in crimes. ATF is not able to trace guns manufactured before 1968, most surplus military weapons, imported guns without the importer's name, stolen guns, and guns missing a legible serial number.
--------------------

So when you factor in all of these stolen weapons, all of the guns that are untraceable for the reasons above (and I assume most criminals remove the serial number), the fact that juvenile offenders were more than twice as likely to have a semiautomatic weapon at a crime scene than a adult offender (hint: they didn't legally acquire it) and the expected low compliance resulting from an attempted national registry and you are left with butkus. A national gun registry turns into a giant witch hunt, and an expensive one at that while doing nothing to curb gun violence.

 

[Chaka]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?

That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

If I am reading this correctly, it is not enough for you that a gun owner locks the door to his home when he goes to work in the morning if his gun is not hidden in a secret impenetrable safe? Plus you assume all stolen guns are from responsible gun owners, I bet there are other targets with a much larger number of weapons than Joe Six pack, but I'll let you dig up those stats, I've done enough homework for you in this thread.

You just said they were stolen, so now you want to victimize the people that legally purchased the weapon, how could that be any more clear? It's like talking to a wall. What part of witch hunt do you not understand?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?

That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

If you can't keep good enough track of your killing machines to the point where you let other people take them from you, I'm not sure you're responsible enough to own a killing machine.

Anything else in Amendments 1-8 of the US Constitution that if we're not "responsible" enough with we should be denied?

 

[Chaka]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

If I am reading this correctly, it is not enough for you that a gun owner locks the door to his home when he goes to work in the morning if his gun is not hidden in a secret impenetrable safe? Plus you assume all stolen guns are from responsible gun owners, I bet there are other targets with a much larger number of weapons than Joe Six pack, but I'll let you dig up those stats, I've done enough homework for you in this thread.

You just said they were stolen, so now you want to victimize the people that legally purchased the weapon, how could that be any more clear? It's like talking to a wall. What part of witch hunt do you not understand?

The fact that, according to your numbers, this happens 314,000 times/year then yes I think there is a big problem with owners irresponsibly storing their weapons.

And so far you have done enough homework except for actually reading your homework.

 

[Chaka]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?

That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

Maybe. Maybe not. There are a lot of factors to consider. But knowing where and when a gun went from a responsible owner to a criminal can only help criminal investigations.