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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (4 Viewers)

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timschochet said:
No politician should be two-faced about clear cut issues. If you're pro life in public, you can't be pro choice in private; that's dishonest. 

But most issues are not clear cut; they are nuanced and it's not always wise to reveal a leader's true thoughts to the public. Slavery is clearly evil, but the passage of the 13th Anendment was nuanced; that was the theme of the film Lincoln which Hillary referenced last night. 
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Gotta hand it to Trump for the way he turned the Lincoln explanation back on her.  That was some pretty quick wit, and definitely not a pre rehearsed zinger.

 
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Honestly I so enjoy discussing Hillary as compared to Trump. It's like participating in a college debate after leaving a third grade classroom. She is so far above him in every qualification for this office that it's the height of absurdity that they're even running against each other. It would be like me challenging Michael Jordan to a game of Horse. 

 
so now that the race to the bottom is almost finished, and looking like an easy Clinton victory, what is going to happen when she no longer has the 'stupid' shadow of Trump to hide behind and has to face the spotlight on her own?  I mean, even many of her supporters don't like her and only voted because Trump!..  now we will all have to deal with the cackle for 4 years..   she will enter office as the most unliked president of all time without serving a day..    how did we let things get this bad :wall:

 
Mr. Ham said:
It's unfathomable to me that Hillary's paid speeches leaked and she said overtly that she maintains a public face and a private one for back door dealing.  She broadcast that her intent to keep public records private and destroy records is part of her political philosophy which is makes people "uneasy to say the least" - and so must be hidden.  

We are supposed to be a Republic, with a government representative of all of our People.  Hillary fundamentally represents an oligarchy or corporatocracy, which is not consistent with our nation's charter.  

This election comes down to that agenda, and that she's lied so shamelessly while pursuing it.
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People should 100% have a different public and private view/life.  The most glaring example is religion.  People can be super religious, but you do not want those views bleeding into public policy.

 
Parrothead said:
so now that the race to the bottom is almost finished, and looking like an easy Clinton victory, what is going to happen when she no longer has the 'stupid' shadow of Trump to hide behind and has to face the spotlight on her own?  I mean, even many of her supporters don't like her and only voted because Trump!..  now we will all have to deal with the cackle for 4 years..   she will enter office as the most unliked president of all time without serving a day..    how did we let things get this bad :wall:
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I don't think we have anything to blame ourselves for.  I mean this is just living proof that elections are bought and paid for.

 
Parrothead said:
so now that the race to the bottom is almost finished, and looking like an easy Clinton victory, what is going to happen when she no longer has the 'stupid' shadow of Trump to hide behind and has to face the spotlight on her own?  I mean, even many of her supporters don't like her and only voted because Trump!..  now we will all have to deal with the cackle for 4 years..   she will enter office as the most unliked president of all time without serving a day..    how did we let things get this bad :wall:
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The real winner of the election is going to be the loser.  The potus will have to deal with the economy when the Fed finally raises interest rates.  The loser gets to sit back and play Monday morning QB on Twitter.

 
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Parrothead said:
so now that the race to the bottom is almost finished, and looking like an easy Clinton victory, what is going to happen when she no longer has the 'stupid' shadow of Trump to hide behind and has to face the spotlight on her own?  I mean, even many of her supporters don't like her and only voted because Trump!..  now we will all have to deal with the cackle for 4 years..   she will enter office as the most unliked president of all time without serving a day..    how did we let things get this bad :wall:
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Even if everything you just wrote is true, who cares? Trump will lose. That's enough. 

 
Quez said:
The winner of the election is going to be the real loser.  They will have to deal with the economy when the Fed finally raises interest rates.  The loser gets to sit back and play Monday morning QB on Twitter.
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only one term no matter who wins

 
My best guess is that Hillary wins and Congress uses her unpopularity to again impose a moratorium on doing anything useful for another four years.

Then, in four years, if Hillary runs again she loses handily. Or she steps down and we can get two (relatively) fresh candidates to go toe to toe. And hopefully the parties have figured out a way to ensure that their candidate isn't a complete turd in a punch bowl.

 
igbomb said:
My best guess is that Hillary wins and Congress uses her unpopularity to again impose a moratorium on doing anything useful for another four years.

Then, in four years, if Hillary runs again she loses handily. Or she steps down and we can get two (relatively) fresh candidates to go toe to toe. And hopefully the parties have figured out a way to ensure that their candidate isn't a complete turd in a punch bowl.
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Or she wins, Dems take both the Senate and the House, eliminate the fillibuster and pass a ton of legislation.  Which is deeply unpopular with ~45-50% of the population.  However, Republicans can't get past their internal divisions and a 3rd Party run garners 15% support -- allowing Clinton to win a 2nd term handily.  Maybe a true smoking gun is found and she loses in disgrace.  Maybe we're attacked again and she leads a highly popular war.  

No one has any idea what will happen once she wins.

eg. Bush II got into office on the back of a partisan Supreme Court ruling, but claimed a mandate, and hit the ground running with deeply conservative agenda.  You just never know.

 
igbomb said:
My best guess is that Hillary wins and Congress uses her unpopularity to again impose a moratorium on doing anything useful for another four years.

Then, in four years, if Hillary runs again she loses handily. Or she steps down and we can get two (relatively) fresh candidates to go toe to toe. And hopefully the parties have figured out a way to ensure that their candidate isn't a complete turd in a punch bowl.
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Who is the mystery R candidate? If they have someone for 2020 they should have run this time. 

 
Plaid Boxer said:
Who is the mystery R candidate? If they have someone for 2020 they should have run this time. 
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It's silly to talk about 2020 (and yes I know I'm the moron that brought it up) but if someone like Paul Ryan or John Kasich were on the top of this ticket I think they would be running away with it. We'll never know so it's pure speculation on my part.

 
All time slow play going on right now folks.  It's masterful. Getting Pence and others (Ryan, McConnel) to stay on board after Friday is brilliant because as more and more women and tapes come out, they'll look like buffoons for not abandoning ship earlier.  

Clinton is a much better politician than I thought.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
All time slow play going on right now folks.  It's masterful. Getting Pence and others (Ryan, McConnel) to stay on board after Friday is brilliant because as more and more women and tapes come out, they'll look like buffoons for not abandoning ship earlier.  

Clinton is a much better politician than I thought.  
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Can't wait for all the tapes from the Apprentice. :popcorn:

 
tommyGunZ said:
All time slow play going on right now folks.  It's masterful. Getting Pence and others (Ryan, McConnel) to stay on board after Friday is brilliant because as more and more women and tapes come out, they'll look like buffoons for not abandoning ship earlier.  

Clinton is a much better politician than I thought.  
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Yeah Pence had to tweet I guess but it ain't done. He will be crossing that same bridge again pretty soon.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Good to see you concede it's over.
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I don't.

Still too long a time. If we were voting today, it would be over. But too many things can go wrong. And I still don't like this talk about the hidden Trump voter, people who are embarrassed to say they're for him, but will vote for him anyhow. The Bradley/Brexit effect. Makes me nervous.

 
timschochet said:
I don't.

Still too long a time. If we were voting today, it would be over. But too many things can go wrong. And I still don't like this talk about the hidden Trump voter, people who are embarrassed to say they're for him, but will vote for him anyhow. The Bradley/Brexit effect. Makes me nervous.
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Hillary had a substantial lead last week, before the ##### grabbing tape came out -- to the point that a Trump comeback at this stage would be one of the most remarkable in US political history. Then the tape followed by a ton of sitting Republicans completely pulling their support. It's. Over.

 
timschochet said:
I don't.

Still too long a time. If we were voting today, it would be over. But too many things can go wrong. And I still don't like this talk about the hidden Trump voter, people who are embarrassed to say they're for him, but will vote for him anyhow. The Bradley/Brexit effect. Makes me nervous.
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It's over.  The only way Hillary doesn't win is if she dies.  She could get terminal cancer at this point and would still win.  She could murder someone (some believe she already has) and would still win. 

How on Earth could Donald win at this point?

 
igbomb said:
It's silly to talk about 2020 (and yes I know I'm the moron that brought it up) but if someone like Paul Ryan or John Kasich were on the top of this ticket I think they would be running away with it. We'll never know so it's pure speculation on my part.
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The problem here is that the same primary voters who brought forth Trump will be voting again. How does a Republican that can get moderate votes make their way to the top of the ticket?

 
timschochet said:
I don't.

Still too long a time. If we were voting today, it would be over. But too many things can go wrong. And I still don't like this talk about the hidden Trump voter, people who are embarrassed to say they're for him, but will vote for him anyhow. The Bradley/Brexit effect. Makes me nervous.
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While I hear you on this, the ridiculous ground game advantage for Clinton will, imo, more than counteract this effect.  That said, I also think there are some who can't ever admit to voting for Hill, but may do it when push comes to shove.  Or they may not vote at all, or not for President.

Regardless, the huge network Clinton has will provide big advantages for early voting and getting the vote out, day of.  That's a huge advantage, perhaps the largest we've witnessed in recent history.  While her operation is not on par with Obama's, her opponents is nearly non existent (and sometimes is too existent in a place like PA, where he's wasting limited resources, as opposed to key areas in other states that are far more tight)

 
Plaid Boxer said:
The problem here is that the same primary voters who brought forth Trump will be voting again. How does a Republican that can get moderate votes make their way to the top of the ticket?
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1 - Perhaps the Party learns a lesson and goes into primary season with less than 17 freakin' candidates. If the establishment had started with a leaner slate and coalesced more quickly behind a front-runner or two they would have had a better chance to challenge Trump. Obviously this is less about rules and more about some level of party unity.

2 - On the rules front, a simple one they can do is change all states to proportional like the Democrats do. Nate Silver did the math to show that Trump's lead would have been a lot less if he wasn't pulling 30% in the primaries and winning most or all of a state's delegates.

3 - And if they really want to avoid a Trump type win again, they could go further to a ranked voting system or something similar. 

 
Plaid Boxer said:
The problem here is that the same primary voters who brought forth Trump will be voting again. How does a Republican that can get moderate votes make their way to the top of the ticket?
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A bigger "problem" if we want to call it that, is once someone is elected, it's a new game.  People perceive the person differently.  Now, the hardened partisans will do their obstructing nonsense as they have with Obama, but watching Hillary as "President", every day, without a clear candidate as opposition, brings about it a whole new dynamic.

If things go well with the economy and perhaps settle a bit abroad, could be tough to overcome. Or, more likely, she follows the usual path and get creamed in the mid term elections, but with all that is going on now, who really knows? Finally, can the Libertarians get out of our own way and build upon new recognition? Can this be a path to some "normalization" of a third option where someone like a Bill Weld could be looked upon more favorably than in the past as more main streamers pay attention to that side of the coin?

FINALLY, regardless of the above, if you have a traditional establishment republican back on the ticket, you don't think the virulent hard right, the nationalists, the KKK and Co. crowd and the angry at the world blame it on the immigrants contingent won't look to split the party once again?

 
Plaid Boxer said:
The problem here is that the same primary voters who brought forth Trump will be voting again. How does a Republican that can get moderate votes make their way to the top of the ticket?
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Also, this was the best chance to beat her since she'll be able to talk about her experience as President.  4 out of the last 5 Presidents won their second term and Bush Sr. would have won if the country wasn't in a recession.  With the possible candidates Republicans have now I don't see any chance outside of economic collapse for them to win in 2020.

 
igbomb said:
3 - And if they really want to avoid a Trump type win again, they could go further to a ranked voting system or something similar. 
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This one will never happen.  If there's one thing that could kill either of the two main parties, it would be instant run-off voting or something along those lines.  Neither party would ever endorse it in their primaries.

 
From:brentbbi@webtv.net To: john.podesta@gmail.com, roy.spence@gsdm.com

Date: 2016-03-13 09:43

Subject: Bernie, Elizabeth and de Blasio

.... Right now I am petrified that Hillary is almost totally dependent on Republicans nominating Trump....she has huge endemic political weaknesses that she would be wise to rectify.....even a clown like Ted Cruz would be an even money bet to beat and this scares the hell of out me.....
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- Brent Budowsky to John Podesta.

 
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timschochet said:
I don't.

Still too long a time. If we were voting today, it would be over. But too many things can go wrong. And I still don't like this talk about the hidden Trump voter, people who are embarrassed to say they're for him, but will vote for him anyhow. The Bradley/Brexit effect. Makes me nervous.
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Tim, it's McGovern territory right now.

 
the moops said:
jonessed said:
From:cbutts.obama08@gmail.com To: john.podesta@gmail.com

Date: 2008-09-24 17:19

Subject: Re: Energy and EPA names

... On 9/24/08, John Podesta <john.podesta@gmail.com> wrote: > >

Gee, pershing are asst sec types not higher. Holstein maybe as deputy not top job. Jackson has a good rep, AA woman, should be considered. Immelt seems impossible to me. Maybe commerce but very unlikely at energy. I'd add Tom Steyer, Farallon Capital, Tim Wirth, maybe mayor hickenlooper of denver. At epa 3 more katie mcginty,

...just left pa enviro office, ian bowles, mass epa, dan esty at yale.

...
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Some of the names that John Podetsa recommended for Sec. Energy, including Tom Steyer.
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Last nights debate was a history lesson for my daughters who were very young when Bill Clinton was in office.  When Trump was talking about snatch-gate and then brought up all of Bill Clintons issues my daughter said when it was over..wonder if Bill and Hillary will be sleeping together tonight as Hillary had to be fuming. Then we started watching old interviews that I totally forgot about. Time does change perceptions..

 
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