Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (7 Viewers)

[NorvilleBarnes]

I can't link it right now but I saw some polling results earlier that had Hillary up 54% to 12% in Iowa over Bernie but only up 44% to 32% on him in New Hampshire. Warren must be wearing out a pair of moccasins kicking herself in the butt over not running.

No she isn't because the polling never showed her better than about 12% against Hillary nationally. Bernie may do well in New Hampshire as New England area voters are familiar with him, but as I have stated previously, there is no way the Democrats will ever nominate a 74 year old avowed Socialist. Not gonna happen.

Honestly have no idea why we're talking about Bernie Sanders.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Bernie Sanders is like the latest Floyd Mayweather opponent: between now and January there's going to be a lot of buildup and hype, but it's all designed to get you to shell out money for the Pay Per View.

You should check the records. Mayweather has 48 fights on his record.

Hillary is 2-1. She has beat two tomato cans in her home ring, and lost to an eventual world champ in a match for a chance at the title. She was caught trying to hit below the belt in a desperate attempt to win.

Sanders is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-5. He's knocked out incumbents or flipped seats three times in his career IIRC. He's known as a clean fighter, good fundamentals and footwork.

OK. Sounds like you're ready to pay for the fight.

If you want to pay for it, I'll come over and watch. But I'm not paying for it myself. (This is my approach with all Mayweather fights.)

Nobody wants to see the Globetrotters on the court without an opponent. Sanders is just the Washington Generals.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

New Suffolk University Poll Has Sanders only trailing Hillary by 10 points in New Hamphire. He was trailing by 44 points a month ago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-vs-bernie-sanders-in-new-hampshire-2015-6

Two new polls show presidential candidate Hillary Clinton might not have the cakewalk to the Democratic nomination that political observers almost universally expect.

A Suffolk University poll of likely Democratic primary voters in New Hampshire finds the former secretary of state Clinton garnering 41% of the vote. Fellow Democratic presidential candidate and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vermont) is surprisingly close in second place, grabbing 31%.

"Don't underestimate the power of the progressive nerve network," David Paleologos, the director of the Suffolk University Political Research Center, said in a statement. "It is alive, far reaching, and it is translating into political muscle in the New Hampshire Democratic primary."

The Suffolk poll is the second of the Granite State in a matter of days that displays Clinton in vulnerable position as a front-runner. In a Morning Consult poll released last weekend, Clinton led Sanders by just 12 points.

Since Sanders jumped into the presidential race in late April, his candidacy has gained momentum through grassroots support from the more liberal wing of the Democratic Party. In the Suffolk poll, self-identified liberal Democratic voters split 39-39 between Clinton and Sanders. Self-identified moderate Democrats chose Clinton by a 20-point margin.

There's also a significant gender gap. Democratic women swung 47-28 for Clinton, but she actually trailed Sanders by 3 points among Democratic men.

Clinton's advisers have continually said they expect a competitive primary process. But Sanders became the surprising favored alternative: In a May poll from Bloomberg/St. Anselm College, Sanders trailed Clinton by 44 points among Democrats.

The poll also shows that New Hampshire Democrats harbor some concerns about Clinton as a general-election candidate. Pluralities of Democratic voters say three recurring topics in the news — her handling of the terror attack on the US mission in Benghazi, her usage of a private email server as secretary of state, and the Clinton Foundation's acceptance of donations from foreign governments — will ultimately hurt her in the general election.

For all of the potential signs of trouble in New Hampshire, though, Clinton does not appear to be facing similar tightening in other primary states. The Morning Consult poll gives her 40-plus-point leads in both Iowa and South Carolina.

Suffolk’s poll was conducted from June 11-15 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.4%.

 

[Mister CIA]

Bernie Sanders is like the latest Floyd Mayweather opponent: between now and January there's going to be a lot of buildup and hype, but it's all designed to get you to shell out money for the Pay Per View.

You should check the records. Mayweather has 48 fights on his record.

Hillary is 2-1. She has beat two tomato cans in her home ring, and lost to an eventual world champ in a match for a chance at the title. She was caught trying to hit below the belt in a desperate attempt to win.

Sanders is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-5. He's knocked out incumbents or flipped seats three times in his career IIRC. He's known as a clean fighter, good fundamentals and footwork.

OK. Sounds like you're ready to pay for the fight.

If you want to pay for it, I'll come over and watch. But I'm not paying for it myself. (This is my approach with all Mayweather fights.)

Nobody wants to see the Globetrotters on the court without an opponent. Sanders is just the Washington Generals.

I suppose Hillary is Phi Slamma Mamma.

 

[cstu]

Clinton Foundation - "We've Made Mistakes"

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

That's funny, slightly dated by now, but funny. Also when the CF has already also been shown to have two whole sub entities and one partner which have concealed thousands of donors, not to mention 26 mill in personal income wrongly classified as foundation revenue, that's also disingenuous to call them "mistakes."

 

[The Commish]

I can't link it right now but I saw some polling results earlier that had Hillary up 54% to 12% in Iowa over Bernie but only up 44% to 32% on him in New Hampshire. Warren must be wearing out a pair of moccasins kicking herself in the butt over not running.

No she isn't because the polling never showed her better than about 12% against Hillary nationally. Bernie may do well in New Hampshire as New England area voters are familiar with him, but as I have stated previously, there is no way the Democrats will ever nominate a 74 year old avowed Socialist. Not gonna happen.

Honestly have no idea why we're talking about Bernie Sanders.

One of two reasons:

1. Because Bernie isn't a real threat so Hillary and her fanboys want to focus on him even though he's not a threat of any sort whatsoever

2. If they don't talk about Bernie, they have to talk about Hillary and well, we know how that's gonna go.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Swing state polling is in from Q'pac:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2234&wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1

• FLORIDA: Clinton 47 - Rubio 44
• OHIO: Kasich 47 - Clinton 40, Clinton 43 - Paul 43
• PENNSYLVANIA: Rubio 44 - Clinton 43, Paul 45 - Clinton 44

Clinton still leads or is in a too-close-to-call matchup in every race in each state, except for Ohio, where native son Gov. John Kasich leads 47 - 40 percent, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll finds. The Swing State Poll focuses on Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania because since 1960 no candidate has won the presidential race without taking at least two of these three states.
Clinton's favorability ratings are 47 - 45 percent in Florida, negative 44 - 48 percent in Ohio and 46 - 48 percent in Pennsylvania.
She is not honest and trustworthy, Florida voters say 51 - 43 percent, Ohio voters say 53 - 40 percent and Pennsylvania voters say 54 - 40 percent.
"It's a long way until Election Day, but in the critical swing states of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida has a tiny edge over the GOP field, "said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac Poll.
"Most of the eight GOP hopefuls are within striking distance of Secretary Hillary Clinton in at least one of the three states. In Ohio, Gov. Kasich leads."
"But perhaps more troubling for her than the continuing slide is how she is perceived by voters who continue to say she is not honest and trustworthy."

"But potentially more disturbing for her are low marks for caring about voter needs and problems. This is where Democrats almost always fare better than Republicans. Yet in this survey many Republican candidates do as well or better than does she," Brown added.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/images/polling/sw/ps06172015_S63hvd.pdf

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hillary Clinton Walks the Line Between Presidential Ally and AspirantIf there was one moment recently in which President Obama could have used Hillary Rodham Clinton’s help, it was on Sunday, as the president scrambled to salvage his trade deal, which had been halted by congressional Democrats.

Instead, Mrs. Clinton, now running to replace Mr. Obama, all but wagged a finger at her former boss. Though she had once hailed the agreement as the gold standard for “free, transparent, fair trade,” she bluntly suggested that the president should “listen to and work with” Democrats to improve the deal and ensure better protections for American workers.

If that cannot be done, Mrs. Clinton said, “there should be no deal.”

Her comments irked some White House aides, who were still stung by the setback on Capitol Hill and frustrated that Mrs. Clinton, who once championed the president’s trade agenda, was now distancing herself from it. Over the weekend, one report on CNN documented the 45 times when Mrs. Clinton had expressed robust support for the trade pact, which the president is eager to see passed as part of his foreign policy legacy.

“The fact is, she was there when this thing was launched and she was extolling it when she left,” David Axelrod, a former senior adviser to Mr. Obama, said Tuesday. “She’s in an obvious vise, between the work that she endorsed and was part of and the exigencies of a campaign. Obviously, her comments plainly weren’t helpful to moving this forward.”

...But while placing most of the blame on Republicans, and not criticizing Mr. Obama directly, she also painted a bleak picture of America during the president’s tenure. It remains a place, she said, of “displaced jobs and undercut wages,” “too little investments in new businesses, jobs and fair compensation,” and a political system that is “paralyzed by gridlock and dysfunction.”

“We can’t stand by while inequality increases, wages stagnate and the promise of America dims,” she said.

...Mrs. Clinton’s comments on trade echo a similar moment for her in the 2008 Democratic primary, when she found herself challenged by Mr. Obama about her early support for the North American Free Trade Agreement. Her husband, President Bill Clinton, signed that agreement into law in 1993, but Democratic interest groups had soured on it.

“The fact is, she was saying great things about Nafta until she started running for president,” Mr. Obama said about Mrs. Clinton during their fight for the nomination.

...Underscoring the trickiness of the issue, Mrs. Clinton’s stance also did little to placate the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, which has pushed her to come out against the trade pact and oppose efforts to give Mr. Obama the so-called fast-track authority.

In New Hampshire on Monday, after Mrs. Clinton played down her comments about trade by referring to that authority as merely a “process issue,” one of her Democratic opponents, Martin O’Malley, fired back.

“For the thousands of American workers whose jobs are on the line with TPP, fast track is not a ‘process’ issue, it’s a straightforward vote on their future and their livelihood,” said Lis Smith, Mr. O’Malley’s deputy campaign manager.

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/us/politics/hillary-clinton-walks-the-line-between-presidential-ally-and-aspirant.html

 

[FlapJacks]

Rubio/Kasich will be the ticket

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Rubio/Kasich will be the ticket

Kasich just came out ahead in that Q'pac poll in Ohio ahead of Hillary. It makes sense that if Bush or Rubio win the nomination they won't or can't get a VP from Florida, so looking to Ohio would make sense after that.

 

[timschochet]

Yup, Kasich or Walker is a logical choice if it's Bush or Rubio, but that depends on just how ugly the debates and race gets.

 

[timschochet]

Hillary's non stance on TPP bothers Axelrod, it bothers Thomas Friedman and it bothers me. We all know the reasons: though she's assured of the nomination she doesn't want to say anything that might cause some of the progressive base of the Democratic Party to stay home on Election Day. She needs them out in force, energized. Coming out in support of TPP might anger them and, worse case scenario, produce a third party candidate ala Ralph Nader to steal votes. Hillary doesn't want that to happen; she needs Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren to endorse her in the end, to campaign on her side. So she shuts up about this issue and a few others and focuses on stuff she can knock over the head of Republicans.

I don't like it. I think she wins anyhow, and this sort of thing gives fuel to her critics who think she's inauthentic. In 1948 Harry Truman ignored his political advisors and publicly criticized segregation, which caused StromThurmond and the Dixiecrats to leave the Democratic Party. Then Truman publicly criticized progressives which caused Henry Wallace to break away from the Democrats and run against him as well. These moves were considered political suicide and Truman was thought to be crushed by Dewey. But he won anyhow and stayed true to himself. Hillary needs to get over her fears.

 

[The Commish]

Interest in keeping/earning a job rather than leading regardless of what others think. This is what I'm growing fond of in Sanders. He's true to his core beliefs and makes not political crybaby excuses about it. He's not worried about keeping his job because at the end of the day, if he loses it, sobeit. He was true to himself and his core values. At the end of the day that's all that matters. This is a pattern of thought that has been squelched out of Washington over time and been virtually non-existent for decades. It's now about keeping a job (that most aren't doing very well in the first place) in lieu of being confident in personal convictions. I have zero respect for the latter and infinite amounts of respect for the former. I may not agree with the positions taken, but man, is it refreshing to see that sort of approach.

 

[dhockster]

So if it is a Rubio/Kasich ticket, wouldn't the Repuplicans be favored to take Ohio and Florida? And if they won both of those, election over, right?

If Clinton becomes the underdog, I don't see a whole lot she can do to swing votes her way. She is too bad of a campaigner to rally votes at the end.

 

[FlapJacks]

So if it is a Rubio/Kasich ticket, wouldn't the Repuplicans be favored to take Ohio and Florida? And if they won both of those, election over, right?

If Clinton becomes the underdog, I don't see a whole lot she can do to swing votes her way. She is too bad of a campaigner to rally votes at the end.

Dates like NC Virginia Colorado, Iowa would carry more weight...there are other paths....

 

[RCon]

I'm not at all sure Kasich as VP would swing Ohio.

 

[FlapJacks]

I'm not at all sure Kasich as VP would swing Ohio.

47 40 over HRC in a presidential matchup is a huge lead for a swing state.....having him in the ticket and using his connections, contacts organization etc would be a big advantage

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Which brings up why Hillary set up her campaign HQ in Brooklyn. - Sure it's near where she lives (Westchester, Long Island) and the Foundation (Harlem), but it also is still NYC. It does have hip, young, vibrant gentrified status... and it also has a very strong counterculture.

With all the images surrounding regarding wealth, insider connections and Wall Street she just seemed to reaffirm that with the site she chose. Now she's having her reset relaunch speech on Roosevelt Island, which also seems like an odd choice, it will be hard to get to, it's physically isolated, it's a weird way to re-kick off a campaign.

The kickoff site itself is gorgeous, by the look of it, the background is Manhattan.

For crying out loud, now you are criticizing her for the location of her campaign headquarters? "Yes, it is near where she lives and the Foundation is located, but it is still NYC and near Wall Street" Do have any idea how silly you sound saying this? Where was she supposed to set it up, Gray Eagle, Minnesota? Honestly, how do you expect people to take you seriously when you post things like this?

And the only people calling it a reset/relaunch of the campaign are her critics. After she formally announced her candidacy on April 13, her people were pretty clear that the formal rollout or kickoff of the campaign would come a couple months down the line (which you criticized at the time saying she was delaying this because she was afraid to face reporters, crowds or do real interviews). You didn't consider it an actual campaign launch at the time and now you are calling a relaunch. JFC.

Ok, more serious comment. Is it really a criticism if i ask for discussion about her HQ? This is a political thread, I was talking politics. Yes, I think the "optics" of Manhattan and the method of her campaign is a distinct issue from her personal behavior and qualifications to be president. Obama had his HQ in Chicago, at the Prudential Building, that was very nice as well, but his image was completely different and Chicago's rep is different. - And his kickoff speech was in Springfield, extremely accessible, you see no negative aspects with Hillary's choice of venue? Or is it just great? Like I said it's a beautiful location, but you have to admit she has some image issues to deal with, no? You don't think Wall Street is one of them?

I feel better seeing none other than Bill Moyers in HuffPo today having agreed with me:

"Perfect! Perfect!" exclaimed a woman looking around at the Four Freedoms Park on New York City's Roosevelt Island as a large crowd waited for Hillary Clinton to announce her presidential candidacy last weekend.

And so it was. Secretary Clinton had chosen an ideal setting to link her destiny to the founding father of the modern Democratic Party, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the political giant whose famous proclamation in 1941 of the Four Freedoms - freedom of speech and worship, freedom from fear and want -- defined the essence of American ideals after a devastating economic disaster and as we prepared to enter a great world war.

"Perfect! Perfect!" Except for one thing -- something the exultant spectator packed in the crowd at ground level might not have been able to see. As the camera pushed in toward the horizon behind Clinton, there it was, beyond the island and across the water: the skyline of Wall Street, the embodiment of financial might and its moguls and barons - "the malefactors of great wealth," as his cousin Teddy called them - that FDR took on in his fight to save democracy from unbridled greed, and capitalism from itself.

Her loyalists were presenting her to us as the reincarnation of the young woman she was in the seventies and eighties, the student who wrote her senior thesis on the organizer Saul Alinsky, interned at a fearless and controversial civil rights law firm, worked as an attorney for the Children's Defense Fund, investigated the treatment of migrant workers and chaired the board of the Legal Services Corporation.

Yet you could also wonder if they had been unaware of another possible reading of the metaphor presented by the sight of Roosevelt Island against the skyline of Wall Street -- something her handlers didn't intend: a mockery of the words she was speaking at that very minute.

It could hardly escape some in that crowd on Roosevelt Island, catching a glimpse of the towers of power and might across the river: Can we really expect someone so deeply tethered to the financial and business class - who moves so often and so easily among its swells - to fight hard to check their predatory appetites, dismantle their control of Congress, and stand up for the working people who are their prey?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-moyers/hillary-clintons-wall-str_b_7622148.html

 

[timschochet]

Last night Clinton told host John Ralston, “We have to have a candid national conversation about race, and about discrimination, prejudice, hatred. The people who do this kind of dastardly, horrible act are a very small percentage. But unfortunately public discourse is sometimes hotter and more negative than it should be, which can, in my opinion, trigger people who is less than stable to do something like this.”

Clinton continued, “I think we have to speak out against it. Like, for example, a recent entry into the Republican presidential campaign said some very inflammatory things about Mexicans. Everybody should stand up and say that’s not acceptable. You know you don’t talk like that on talk radio. You dont talk like that on the kind of political campaigns. I think he is emblematic. So I want people to understand, it’s not just him, it’s about everybody. The second thing is guns. Let’s just cut to the chase – it’s guns.”

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Last night Clinton told host John Ralston, “We have to have a candid national conversation about race, and about discrimination, prejudice, hatred. The people who do this kind of dastardly, horrible act are a very small percentage. But unfortunately public discourse is sometimes hotter and more negative than it should be, which can, in my opinion, trigger people who is less than stable to do something like this.”

Clinton continued, “I think we have to speak out against it. Like, for example, a recent entry into the Republican presidential campaign said some very inflammatory things about Mexicans. Everybody should stand up and say that’s not acceptable. You know you don’t talk like that on talk radio. You dont talk like that on the kind of political campaigns. I think he is emblematic. So I want people to understand, it’s not just him, it’s about everybody. The second thing is guns. Let’s just cut to the chase – it’s guns.”

I Am, You Know, Adamantly Against Illegal Immigrants. ... People have to stop employing illegal immigrants in the street corners in Brooklyn or the Bronx – you’re going to see loads of people waiting to get picked up to go do yard work.

We’ve got to do several things and I am, you know, adamantly against illegal immigrants. I made this exception basically on humanitarian grounds because of the individual story but certainly we’ve got to do more at our borders. And people have to stop employing illegal immigrants. Come up to Westchester, go to Suffolk and Nassau counties, stand in the street corners in Brooklyn or the Bronx – you’re going to see loads of people waiting to get picked up to go do yard work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxASD4jHgCk

- Hillary Clinton (John Gambling Radio Show, February 2003)

 

[timschochet]

I don't see the point of your response Saints. I'm glad she changed her mind on illegals, but that's not what she was referring to anyhow. She was referencing Trumps comments when he stated that most illegals from Mexico were "rapists and murderers- and a few are nice people."

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't see the point of your response Saints. I'm glad she changed her mind on illegals, but that's not what she was referring to anyhow. She was referencing Trumps comments when he stated that most illegals from Mexico were "rapists and murderers- and a few are nice people."

She's hasn't changed her mind, that's her, she's just changed her words. She's more hypocritical than Trump is and that's saying a lot.

 

[timschochet]

I don't see the point of your response Saints. I'm glad she changed her mind on illegals, but that's not what she was referring to anyhow. She was referencing Trumps comments when he stated that most illegals from Mexico were "rapists and murderers- and a few are nice people."

She's hasn't changed her mind, that's her, she's just changed her words. She's more hypocritical than Trump is and that's saying a lot.

What hypocrisy are you referring to? And what does this have to do with Trump? Trump basically called illegals from Mexico rapists and murderers. That's hateful speech. When has Hillary ever said anything like that?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't see the point of your response Saints. I'm glad she changed her mind on illegals, but that's not what she was referring to anyhow. She was referencing Trumps comments when he stated that most illegals from Mexico were "rapists and murderers- and a few are nice people."

She's hasn't changed her mind, that's her, she's just changed her words. She's more hypocritical than Trump is and that's saying a lot.

What hypocrisy are you referring to? And what does this have to do with Trump? Trump basically called illegals from Mexico rapists and murderers. That's hateful speech. When has Hillary ever said anything like that?

Hillary said she wants them off the street corners in Westchester, Suffolk and Nassau - you know, the richest counties in America - and it wasn't just because they're stealing jobs or loitering as she claimed, how do you think those people think? That's her crowd, the Trump crowd, please she is a part of that. She was happy to take his money, that's for sure.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

I don't see the point of your response Saints. I'm glad she changed her mind on illegals, but that's not what she was referring to anyhow. She was referencing Trumps comments when he stated that most illegals from Mexico were "rapists and murderers- and a few are nice people."

She's hasn't changed her mind, that's her, she's just changed her words. She's more hypocritical than Trump is and that's saying a lot.

What hypocrisy are you referring to? And what does this have to do with Trump? Trump basically called illegals from Mexico rapists and murderers. That's hateful speech. When has Hillary ever said anything like that?

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know I just, I don't understand it," she said, dismissing the idea of abandoning the race.

 

[timschochet]

Well that was probably the worst thing she ever said. But it still doesn't come close to truly hateful speech like Trump.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I will say this, Trump may be the best thing to happen to Hillary politically in 2015, he soaks up all the media time from her and her future possibleGOP opponents, plus she gets to paint with the broad brush.

 

[RCon]

Last night Clinton told host John Ralston, “We have to have a candid national conversation about race, and about discrimination, prejudice, hatred. The people who do this kind of dastardly, horrible act are a very small percentage. But unfortunately public discourse is sometimes hotter and more negative than it should be, which can, in my opinion, trigger people who is less than stable to do something like this.”

Clinton continued, “I think we have to speak out against it. Like, for example, a recent entry into the Republican presidential campaign said some very inflammatory things about Mexicans. Everybody should stand up and say that’s not acceptable. You know you don’t talk like that on talk radio. You dont talk like that on the kind of political campaigns. I think he is emblematic. So I want people to understand, it’s not just him, it’s about everybody. The second thing is guns. Let’s just cut to the chase – it’s guns.”

Some very solid policy proposals there.

 

[FlapJacks]

I don't see the point of your response Saints. I'm glad she changed her mind on illegals, but that's not what she was referring to anyhow. She was referencing Trumps comments when he stated that most illegals from Mexico were "rapists and murderers- and a few are nice people."

She's hasn't changed her mind, that's her, she's just changed her words. She's more hypocritical than Trump is and that's saying a lot.

What hypocrisy are you referring to? And what does this have to do with Trump? Trump basically called illegals from Mexico rapists and murderers. That's hateful speech. When has Hillary ever said anything like that?

He impugned a whole group of people who, by definition, give no deference to our laws....

 

[FlapJacks]

Trump calls Hillary pathetic

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/politics/trump-clinton-pathetic-charleston/index.html

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

That quote on Obama has twofold meaning. If you look at it, really, what she did in 2008 was DRAG the suggestion or idea or death wish (your pick) of Obama's imagined demise in a completely unrelated conversation - ie whether she would be staying in the race she was losing. Here today she dragged Trump into something he had no involvement in. It's ugly demagoguery at its worst and even worse because both instances may have actually premeditated. What's really shocking is that in 2008 there really were people who contemplated what she said and if anything what she is accusing Trump of she really did do in 2008. It was appalling then, it adds 3 levels if hypocrisy upon her statement today.

 

[Mister CIA]

Well that was probably the worst thing she ever said. But it still doesn't come close to truly hateful speech like Trump.

Yes Tim, this thread needs more "but."

 

[Mister CIA]

Last night Clinton told host John Ralston, “We have to have a candid national conversation about race, and about discrimination, prejudice, hatred. The people who do this kind of dastardly, horrible act are a very small percentage. But unfortunately public discourse is sometimes hotter and more negative than it should be, which can, in my opinion, trigger people who is less than stable to do something like this.”

Clinton continued, “I think we have to speak out against it. Like, for example, a recent entry into the Republican presidential campaign said some very inflammatory things about Mexicans. Everybody should stand up and say that’s not acceptable. You know you don’t talk like that on talk radio. You dont talk like that on the kind of political campaigns. I think he is emblematic. So I want people to understand, it’s not just him, it’s about everybody. The second thing is guns. Let’s just cut to the chase – it’s guns.”

Some very solid policy proposals there.

But

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

From Daily Kos - part of the speech is at the link:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/21/1395126/-Hillary-Clinton-We-Can-t-Hide-From-Hard-Truths-On-Race

Hillary Clinton: We Can't Hide From Hard Truths On Race

Hillary Clinton spoke at the US Conference Of Mayors in San Francisco today. She said that we need to "address systemic racism in the wake of the Charleston shooting." She said "We can't hide from any of these hard truths about race and justice in America. We have to name them and own them and then change them."

The design committee had neglected to consider the role of Arkansas as a member of the Confederate States of America from 1861 to 1865. To correct this, in 1923 the Legislature voted to add another star above the state name. This fourth star was placed above the letter "R" in Arkansas and the original star above the name was moved to a position above the last "A" in Arkansas.

The colors of the flag, red, white and blue associate the state with the United States of America. The three blue stars below the state name represent the three countries that the territory belonged to (France, Spain and the United States), the year (1803) that Arkansas was acquired by the United States as part of the Louisiana Purchase and that Arkansas was the third state created from the purchase. The two stars below and parallel to the state name represent the twin states, Arkansas and Michigan, both admitted to the union at about the same time: Arkansas on June 15, 1836 and Michigan on January 26, 1837. The single star above the state name represents Arkansas' membership in the Confederate States of America.

http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flags/ar_flag.htm

In 1987, Gov. Bill Clinton signed into law Act 116, restating the statutory language that included the reference to the stars on the Arkansas flag that are a commemoration of the Confederacy.The Arkansas flag flew at the Governor's Mansion, where the Clintons dwelled during his dozen years as governor.

The flag even stood in Clinton's office.

The Arkansas flag is "a smack in the face of those who were victims of slavery... it's outrageous; we don't need that," said New York City Councilman Bill Perkins [D-Manhattan] after Mayor Rudy Giuliani raised the flag over city hall returning from a visit to Clinton's home state.

"Displaying a flag that includes a star commemorating Arkansas' membership in the Confederacy is an insult to African-Americans and those who have struggled in the Civil Rights movement," blasted Manhattan Borough President C. Virginia Fields.

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/specialReports_pc_carden_detail.htm?reportID={30E9DE74-2AC6-4527-8F90-E0CF6A7D4E40}

This law states:

The blue star above the word “ARKANSAS” is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.

Do you think that story is true, and if so do you think it matters? Is this different from the Florida and SC flag controversies, if so how?

But in any event Bill Clinton was governor in Arkansas and his wife was by his side for how long through how many elections and how many times did they speak up about institutional racism? How many measures did they take to change it?

These are the people who invented the DLC, the end of welfare and the Sistah Souljah moment. The Clintons belonged to a whites only country club until it was publicly revealed they were while he was running for president, then of course they quit. These are the people who employed Sidney Blumenthal to ramp up the white vote during the late primaries with racially tinged stories about Pres. Obama. This is a helluva candidate to carry this banner forward.

 

[Soonerman]

Well that was probably the worst thing she ever said. But it still doesn't come close to truly hateful speech like Trump.

No, the worst thing she ever said was the multiple personal attacks on women telling the truth about her husband.

 

[squistion]

This law states:

The blue star above the word ARKANSAS is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.

Do you think that story is true, and if so does it matter? Is this different from the Florida and SC flag controversies, if so how?

Maybe I missed the part of the speech that Hillary talked about the confederate flag. Sorry, but I really don't see the relevance to a bill passed by the state legislature in 1987 that Clinton signed acknowledging that one star the Arkansas state flag represented the confederacy. How many people today would look at that flag and make that association if they didn't know the history?

That is not the same as the confederate flag issue which many people on both sides of the race issue have a visceral reaction to because of its history and symbolism. And I am not aware of many white supremacists like Roof having the Arkansas state flag on their car or wearing emblems on there jackets as a show of support for what the confederacy represented. It was a non-issue in 2000 when Drudge ran this piece and no more so when Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller revived it yesterday.

 

[timschochet]

This law states:

The blue star above the word ARKANSAS is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.

Do you think that story is true, and if so does it matter? Is this different from the Florida and SC flag controversies, if so how?Maybe I missed the part of the speech that Hillary talked about the confederate flag. Sorry, but I really don't see the relevance to a bill passed by the state legislature in 1987 that Clinton signed acknowledging that one star the Arkansas state flag represented the confederacy. How many people today would look at that flag and make that association if they didn't know the history?

That is not the same as the confederate flag issue which many people on both sides of the race issue have a visceral reaction to because of its history and symbolism. And I am not aware of many white supremacists like Roof having the Arkansas state flag on their car or wearing emblems on there jackets as a show of support for what the confederacy represented. It was a non-issue in 2000 when Drudge ran this piece and no more so when Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller revived it yesterday.

These attacks are getting really embarrassing.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This law states:

The blue star above the word ARKANSAS is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.

Do you think that story is true, and if so does it matter? Is this different from the Florida and SC flag controversies, if so how?Maybe I missed the part of the speech that Hillary talked about the confederate flag. Sorry, but I really don't see the relevance to a bill passed by the state legislature in 1987 that Clinton signed acknowledging that one star the Arkansas state flag represented the confederacy. How many people today would look at that flag and make that association if they didn't know the history?

That is not the same as the confederate flag issue which many people on both sides of the race issue have a visceral reaction to because of its history and symbolism. And I am not aware of many white supremacists like Roof having the Arkansas state flag on their car or wearing emblems on there jackets as a show of support for what the confederacy represented. It was a non-issue in 2000 when Drudge ran this piece and no more so when Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller revived it yesterday.

These attacks are getting really embarrassing.

Arkansas also has a Confederate flag day at the state capitol. How is this different than the charge against Rubio about similar flag issues in Florida?

And the history of injecting race into the campaign against the first black president to be in the US? That was no accident they did it again in 1992.

And the history of presiding over a state with as bad of a history of institutional racism as any?

Arkansas is one of the worst states for income inequality, but you know who is THE worst? New York, the State which Hillary represented for 8 years. There is no greater walking billboard for the inequal access to wealth and power than the Clintons themselves.

This is her actual record we are talking about, this is who she and Bill really are.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This law states:

The blue star above the word ARKANSAS is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.

Do you think that story is true, and if so does it matter? Is this different from the Florida and SC flag controversies, if so how?

Maybe I missed the part of the speech that Hillary talked about the confederate flag. Sorry, but I really don't see the relevance to a bill passed by the state legislature in 1987 that Clinton signed acknowledging that one star the Arkansas state flag represented the confederacy. How many people today would look at that flag and make that association if they didn't know the history?

That is not the same as the confederate flag issue which many people on both sides of the race issue have a visceral reaction to because of its history and symbolism. And I am not aware of many white supremacists like Roof having the Arkansas state flag on their car or wearing emblems on there jackets as a show of support for what the confederacy represented. It was a non-issue in 2000 when Drudge ran this piece and no more so when Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller revived it yesterday.

Squizz, thanks, as usual you are unafraid to tackle the question.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This law states:

The blue star above the word ARKANSAS is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.

Do you think that story is true, and if so does it matter? Is this different from the Florida and SC flag controversies, if so how?Maybe I missed the part of the speech that Hillary talked about the confederate flag. Sorry, but I really don't see the relevance to a bill passed by the state legislature in 1987 that Clinton signed acknowledging that one star the Arkansas state flag represented the confederacy. How many people today would look at that flag and make that association if they didn't know the history?

That is not the same as the confederate flag issue which many people on both sides of the race issue have a visceral reaction to because of its history and symbolism. And I am not aware of many white supremacists like Roof having the Arkansas state flag on their car or wearing emblems on there jackets as a show of support for what the confederacy represented. It was a non-issue in 2000 when Drudge ran this piece and no more so when Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller revived it yesterday.

These attacks are getting really embarrassing.

Arkansas also has a Confederate flag day at the state capitol. How is this different than the charge against Rubio about similar flag issues in Florida?

And the history of injecting race into the campaign against the first black president to be in the US? That was no accident they did it again in 1992.

And the history of presiding over a state with as bad of a history of institutional racism as any?

Arkansas is one of the worst states for income inequality, but you know who is THE worst? New York, the State which Hillary represented for 8 years. There is no greater walking billboard for the inequal access to wealth and power than the Clintons themselves.

This is her actual record we are talking about, this is who she and Bill really are.

And HuffPo:

As Governor, Bill Clinton Kept 'Confederate' Star On The Arkansas FlagMany Republican presidential contenders say the question of whether to keep the Confederate flag flying outside South Carolina's Statehouse is a matter for South Carolinians to work out among themselves. Democratic candidates like Hillary Clinton tend to say that the flag -- a symbol of racism and oppression to many -- ought to come down, especially in the wake of last week's racially motivated mass shooting in Charleston. (Clinton has not made an official statement about South Carolina's flag since the shooting, but in 2007 she did say she "would like to see it removed" from the Statehouse grounds.)

But the former secretary of state, who is now running for president, is not the first Clinton to weigh in on the matter of the Confederacy. The state flag of Arkansas sports 25 white stars and four blue ones. And in 1987, while serving as governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton signed a bill affirming that one of those blue stars is there in honor of the Confederate States of America.

A few words here about the Arkansas state flag, which -- like most flags -- is laden with symbols and references that may not be immediately apparent. According to the Arkansas secretary of state, the flag's original design, approved by the state legislature in 1913, had only three blue stars, not four. The three blue stars were meant to represent a number of things, including the year Arkansas became a state (1803) and the fact that "Arkansas belonged to three countries (France, Spain, and the United States) before attaining statehood." Legislators added a fourth blue star in 1923 to acknowledge Arkansas' membership in the Confederacy from 1861 to 1865.

The state's General Assembly reaffirmed the parameters of the flag in a 1987 act that Clinton signed. Among other provisions detailing the flag's features, such as its colors and shapes, there was a line that read, “The blue star above the word 'ARKANSAS' is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.” The act met no significant opposition at the time. In the same legislative session, the assembly also settled on an official state song.

Arkansas observes a Confederate Flag Day, which is celebrated together with Arkansas Confederate History and Heritage Month and Confederate Memorial Day. Per state code, it is observed on the Saturday immediately preceding Easter Sunday. In annual gatherings outside the Arkansas Statehouse, participants can "attend and bring examples of the variety of flags used by Arkansas units and of the Confederate government and its army during the War," according to the Log Cabin Democrat, an Arkansas newspaper.

Clinton did not publicly object to Confederate Flag Day during his time as governor. The holiday is still being observed: A photo posted to the website of the Sons of Confederate Veterans in Arkansas shows this year's event.

...A spokesperson for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/bill-clinton-arkansas-confederate_n_7638542.html

There's also a confederate war memorial on the Capitol just like in South Carolina.

Begala: Hillary 'Absolutely' Has to Answer for Confederate Flag in Arkansas

Does she have to answer for her time as first lady in Arkansas with Bill standing by the Arkansas flag proudly when it, too, is said to borrow from the Confederate symbology?" Cuomo said. "Well, sure, absolutely," said Begala.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What those Clinton-Gore Confederate flag buttons say about politics in 2015Two buttons offering support for one of Bill Clinton's presidential runs made the rounds on social media over the weekend. The first shows the Confederate battle flag with the words "Clinton-Gore" superimposed.

The second goes a bit further, portraying Clinton and Gore in the gray uniforms of the Confederacy. It's currently for sale on eBay.

...

It's important to note that there is no indicator that these buttons were actually made and distributed by the actual Clinton-Gore campaign. The second, with its cut-out photos of the candidates, almost certainly isn't.

One indicator that it isn't official is that it lacks a union "bug," the little marker showing that a piece of campaign material was printed in a union shop. If you look at other Clinton-Gore buttons, nearly all — but not all — have a bug somewhere. The buttons below, from CampaignButtons-Etc.com, have their union bugs circled.

...It also doesn't mean they weren't. When Clinton was first running in 1992, his geographic background was a key advantage. Since Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act into law, the act that hastened the South's partisan flip, four Northern Democrats and one Southern Democrat had run for the presidency. Only the Southern one, Jimmy Carter, won — and he only won once. Clinton, a Southern governor of a state whose flag still alludes to its history in the Confederacy, needed to solidify support from nearby states to have a chance at unseating George H.W. Bush. He ended up winning Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Tennessee and Georgia. A button like the one at top wouldn't necessarily have hurt.

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/06/22/what-those-clinton-gore-confederate-flag-buttons-say-about-politics-in-2015/

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

New WSJ/NBC poll numbers out - Hillary continues crushing the field:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/A_Politics/6_22_PollPDF.pdf

75-15 over Sanders, nationally.

48-40 over John Bush nationally. 50-40 over Rubio, nationally.

 

[Tom Servo]

I've read a lot about Clinton Derangement Syndrome, but have rarely come across such a perfect specimen in the wild.

And to think they called Reagan "the teflon president".

 

[The Commish]

Maybe I missed the part of the speech that Hillary talked about the confederate flag. Sorry, but I really don't see the relevance to a bill passed by the state legislature in 1987 that Clinton signed acknowledging that one star the Arkansas state flag represented the confederacy. How many people today would look at that flag and make that association if they didn't know the history?

That is not the same as the confederate flag issue which many people on both sides of the race issue have a visceral reaction to because of its history and symbolism. And I am not aware of many white supremacists like Roof having the Arkansas state flag on their car or wearing emblems on there jackets as a show of support for what the confederacy represented. It was a non-issue in 2000 when Drudge ran this piece and no more so when Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller revived it yesterday.

No one gives a #### about the flag of the confederacy. They see the battle flag and get bent out of shape. People "know" as much about the flag of the confederacy as they do the Arkansas flag. The irony of that whole flag discussion is if they replaced the battle flag with the flag of the confederacy everywhere, I'm willing to bet most would be ok with it. It's sorta sad.

 

[timschochet]

In 1964 Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl." Goldwater was against the Civil Rights Act. Hillary is secretly racist!

See if you can run with this Saints. Ought to be good for a few posts/articles at least.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Poor attempt, Tim, but thanks for playing. It wasn't much of a surprise that Arkansas had flag and memorial issues, nearly all the SEC states do, plus some more in the ACC, PAC-12, MWC & Big12, but it's surprising that those issues arose as late as 1987 in AR. Nearly all the others were Jim Crow and civil rights era measures. Funny thing is I didn't consider this substantive enough to put in the other thread. I doubt it becomes a campaign issue, I think Squizz's point on that was a good one, but I do think it reflects Hillary's constant cynicism and fluid lack of principle in nearly everything she touches.

 

[timschochet]

New WSJ/NBC poll numbers out - Hillary continues crushing the field:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/A_Politics/6_22_PollPDF.pdf

75-15 over Sanders, nationally.

48-40 over John Bush nationally. 50-40 over Rubio, nationally.

Yeah I thought about bringing this poll up in the Bernie thread but I didn't want to bring anybody down. They're all so excited over there.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hillary Clinton’s ‘All Lives Matter’ Remark Stirs BacklashHillary Rodham Clinton is facing backlash for saying that “all lives matter” in an African-American church in Missouri on Tuesday, offending some who feel that she is missing the point of the “black lives matter” mantra.

Mrs. Clinton’s remarks at Christ the King United Church of Christ in Florissant, Mo. — only a few miles north of Ferguson, where a black teenager was shot by a white police officer last August — came during a broader discussion of civil rights in America.

She was talking about how a disproportionate number of young people of color are out of school and out of work and, explaining that everyone needs a “chance and a champion,” she recalled how her mother was abandoned as a teenager and went on to work as a maid.

“What kept you going?” Mrs. Clinton remembered asking her mother. “Her answer was very simple. Kindness along the way from someone who believed she mattered. All lives matter.”

The remark caused a stir on social media, with some African-Americans on Twitter suggesting that Mrs. Clinton had lost their votes.

The Rev. Renita Lamkin, who was in the audience at the event, told NPR that Mrs. Clinton’s comment did not go unnoticed.

“That blew a lot of support that she may have been able to engender here,” she said.

The phrase “black lives matter” has become a rallying cry in the last year for demonstrators amid a spate of episodes around the country, including the 18-year-old Michael Brown’s death in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, where white police officers have been accused of using excessive force against black suspects.

Judith Butler, a professor at University of California, Berkley, summed up the frustration with the use of “all lives matter” in The Times in January.

“When some people rejoin with ‘All Lives Matter’ they misunderstand the problem, but not because their message is untrue,” she wrote. “It is true that all lives matter, but it is equally true that not all lives are understood to matter which is precisely why it is most important to name the lives that have not mattered, and are struggling to matter in the way they deserve.”

Mrs. Clinton has not been opposed to using the phrase in the past, declaring that “yes, black lives matter” at a gala in New York last year.

The controversy comes as Mrs. Clinton has sought to address racial issues in a more direct manner than she was able to in 2007, when she was running against someone who would go on to become the first black president.

...

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/24/hillary-clintons-all-lives-matter-remark-stirs-backlash/?_r=0

Pousbaé ‏@yoauntielikeit 6h6 hours ago

Just in case Hillary tries to go back to the church she spoke to yesterday, they left a present for her.

https://twitter.com/yoauntielikeit/status/613829427600887809

Pousbaé ‏@yoauntielikeit Jun 23

Hillary Clinton talked about institutionalized racism then hit an "All lives matter." I can't make this sht up lmao

Andrew Whatever ‏@xvszero Jun 23

@yoauntielikeit @vivian_games Well she just locked down the racist white people who think they aren't racist vote.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hillary Clinton at Black Church in Mo.: ‘All Lives Matter’The Democratic presidential candidate spoke to a mostly black crowd in Florissant, Mo., about racial inequity and the Confederate flag in the aftermath of the Charleston, S.C., shooting. But one phrase she used drew negative social media reaction.

...

While speaking about lessons she learned from her mother, Clinton said she had asked her, "What kept you going?" Clinton continued, "Her answer was very simple. Kindness along the way from someone who believed she mattered. All lives matter."
That last comment drew the anger of some social media users who were outraged at her twisting of the popular phrase "Black lives matter" that has come to define a movement.

...

According to NPR, some of those in attendance while Clinton delivered her speech were not impressed, either.
"With her statement that all lives matter, that blew a lot of support that she may have been able to engender here," St. John AME Church Pastor Renita Lamkin told the news source.
"My children matter," the pastor added. "And I need to hear my president say that the lives of my children matter—that my little black children matter. Because right now our society does not say that they matter. Black lives matter. That's what she needs to say."

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/06/hillary_clinton_at_black_church_in_missouri_all_lives_matter.html

Hillary Clinton, in a talk about race, hits a sour noteDo black lives matter or do all lives matter?

That’s a question left hanging disturbingly in the air after Hillary Clinton, the Democratic presidential contender, spoke at a Florissant, Mo., church on Tuesday. She made news by joining the call for removing the Confederate battle flag from the grounds of the South Carolina capitol, and for her sensitive and resonant reflection on the slaughter of nine innocent black souls in a historic Charleston, S.C., church: “Let us be resolved to make sure they did not die in vain — not to be overcome by evil, but to overcome evil with good.”

But Clinton pushed some other buttons in a way that bears further examination.

The site of Clinton’s speech, of course, is just down the road from Ferguson, where the fatal shooting of a black teenager by a white police officer erupted into street protests and launched a movement, linked by a Twitter hashtag, #blacklivesmatter.

That movement led to a backlash, especially among those who challenged what appeared to be a populist rush to judgment and who feared that white police officers don’t get enough respect for putting themselves in harm’s way. Thus: #alllivesmatter.

Here’s the problem. Many people might assume that “all lives” includes “black lives.” But if you’re African American or have a real understanding of the course of America’s shameful racial history, you know that for far too long and far too often “black lives” do not fully fit within the Venn diagram of “all lives.” The hashtag #blacklivesmatter is meant to emphasize this point. It’s not meant to suggest that other people’s lives don’t matter. It’s a cry of civil rights. It’s a chorus of “We Shall Overcome.” It’s a voice to stand up against the ache that blows in the wind among those Confederate flags.

So when Hillary Clinton faced a congregation of Florissant churchgoers, her intention was to talk frankly and smartly about race in the age of Ferguson, the era of Charleston and the nagging American struggle of identity.

“I know this is a difficult topic to talk about,” she said. “I know that so many of us hoped by electing our first black president, we had turned the page on this chapter in our history. I know there are truths we do not like to say out loud or discuss with our children. But we have to.”

So far so good. Then she made it personal.

“We should start by giving all of our children the tools and opportunities to overcome legacies of discrimination to live up to their own God-given potentials,” Clinton said. “I just saw some of the young people attending camp here at church down in the basement. And I was thrilled to see that because that is the kind of commitment we need more of, in every church, in every place, until every child is reached. And I hope we can take that as a cause for action.

“I learned this not from politics but from my mother who taught me that everybody, everybody needs a chance and a champion. She knew what it was like to have neither one. Her own parents abandoned her. By 14, she was out on her own working as a house maid. Years later when I was old enough to understand, I asked her. What kept you going? Her answer was very simple. Kindness along the way from someone who believed she mattered. All lives matter.”

There was faint applause. Then a Twitter storm. Clinton had stepped in it big time. (“All lives matter? Hillary...sit down now. You're embarrassing us” — this was one of the milder tweets by offended African Americans who weighed in.)

You would think that Clinton and her speech writers would have known how to parse the language of the moment. You would think they would have it down by now, this far into her second campaign for the presidency. But a nagging truth about Clinton lingers. She can come off as tone deaf. It’s a sign of inauthenticity. And she needs to get a handle on it. A fleet-footed politician would have recovered instantly and voiced what the mostly African American audience before her would have expected to hear: Of course, black lives matter.

Words do matter. All words matter, even when it seems like, in the age of Twitter, words hardly matter any more at all.

When President Barack Obama voiced the N-word the other day, he knew exactly what he was doing and it was highly effective.

The conversation on race must continue. And it needs to take place in an atmosphere of respect and at decibel levels conducive to conversation. And people need to listen to one another and understand the meaning of their words and the meaning behind their words.

In a time of instant response, politicians are swiftly pilloried for slips of the tongue and rhetorical missteps. I know I can be guilty of hastily penning (old technology) the wrong word at the wrong time. But we expect more of those who would be our president. And in the minefield of racial politics, we can all agree that there is much work left to do, and many more lessons to learn.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/steve-paul/article25418383.html