Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (17 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Tim was correct  The tag team correcting him was not.

And the password stuff was particularly painful.  I think I pulled a muscle laughing at that.  And before you go to find the article(s) to prove to me that such an investigation is going on realize that I have already read them and more importantly understood them.

Well good it was a Friday night, I was out myself.

If you've read the article then you know they specifically referred to the "spear phishing" emails that turned up in Hillary's tranche. That's it. You can define hacking that way if you want, but there's a lot more to hacking and hacking is also one of only one of several ways to access data. As Rich mentions the network is one primary one, real time live eavesdropping over the network is one way and very common. I'd also remind you that Hillary was often traveling during some of her most controversial emails, including the mideast, but obviously also all over the world. When she was first meeting with Lavrov and the famous "Reset" episode which would prove such a harbinger of our future devolution of relations with Russia the Russians had probably already plugged into Hillary's email.

These are some article talking about some of those issues surrounding Hillary's (non) configuration at that time:

http://www.infosecisland.com/blogview/24382-Lessons-From-Hillary-Clintons-Email-Security-Oversight-.html

http://www.securityweek.com/clinton-email-server-vulnerable-3-months-venafi

https://www.venafi.com/blog/post/what-venafi-trustnet-tells-us-about-the-clinton-email-server/

And signals intelligence covers a wide range of disciplines, but whether it includes hacking or not we also know that hacking regardless goes a lot further than just phishing. I think maybe the funniest thing about that NYT piece is it highlights Pagliano's own narrow, limited view of data security for someone as high up as a SOS. Hey the security logs show no intrusions, see? Well I'm sure Bryan Pagliano vs the Russian, Chinese, NKorean (etc., etc.) intelligence agencies was a close fight. Hillary had intelligence agencies and the best at State to help her maintain the security of classified information. She apparently typically eschewed it, and in setting up her personal email system she entirely avoided it. That as Commish points out is entirely unforgivable. Cheryl Mills at one point "lost" her Blackberry in SE Asia (it could have been stolen, who knows) and whether it was compromised or not is beyond the point, Hillary was irresponsible to the level of bad faith. And she constantly lies about it throughout and is now still

Absolutely.  This was settled around August! 

.I don't think this is a bad point. This again refers to the spear phishing report from a while back. It was said then that those attempts had failed, so why bring it up again now? I think it's pretty clear the defenses that Hillary's followers (no, you're not, I know) will cling to are being publicly established: she wasn't hacked (sure with a limited definition of hacking like this given a broad application...), the marked/unmarked bs (not the standard), Hillary acted voluntarily (false, she was compelled by State, Congress, Foia, and the courts and the hacking of Blumenthal), and other SOS's did it too (well two emails below Secret, between 3 SOS's over 12 years). But that will be enough for folks like Tim to feel good about things and tapdance on the graves of VRWC'ers.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In addition to what Rich said, it doesn't really matter whether any of the classified information Hillary sent and received was intercepted or not.  Drunk driving, for example, is unethical even if you manage to avoid getting into an accident.  Same thing here.  There's a reason why we ban people from behaving recklessly in situations where carelessness can potentially (but not certainly) result in serious damage.  

 

[jon_mx]

BFS is jumping the shark now and is finally drinking Hillary's koolaid.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Por ejemplo:

In the world of advanced persistent threat actors (APT) like the NSA, credentials are king for gaining access to systems. Not the login credentials of your organization’s VIPs, but the credentials of network administrators and others with high levels of network access and privileges that can open the kingdom to intruders. Per the words of a recently leaked NSA document, the NSA hunts sysadmins.

http://www.wired.com/2016/01/nsa-hacker-chief-explains-how-to-keep-him-out-of-your-system/

Sysadmin: thy name is Bry.

 

[SoBeDad]

There's been little serious talk about the effect of a Trump presidency on the economy. His tax plan would add more to the federal deficit than Hillary's and lead to higher interest rates. Only Bernie's plan is worse in this regard. His method of paying for the wall, a 35% import tax on cars from Mexico, would lead to a trade war. Cars would cost more more - a $20,000 car would cost $27,000. US exports would also be affected as Mexico would start to charge a 7.5% duty. Only  Canada imports more from the USA than Mexico. A trade war with Mexico would lead to a loss of US jobs. The loss of immigrants from Mexico would lead to higher food prices. If you like inflation, high interest rates and higher unemployment, vote for Trump. Trump can do real estate deals, but I have no confidence in his ability to help the US economy.  

 

[jon_mx]

And these security logs are only as good as the security measures which were put in place and this is all based on statements from Pagliano.  Did he install the best software, what kind of secuity was set up (firewalls, detection, antivirus, prevention), when did he install it, and did he keep everything up to date?  Unless he had a full suite of high quality secuity software installed and setup properly and always maintained, his security logs may not mean all that much.  Considering this was just a part-time effort by Paliano, him not seeing anything in a security log may not be all that impressive.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

And these security logs are only as good as the security measures which were put in place and this is all based on statements from Pagliano.  Did he install the best software, what kind of secuity was set up (firewalls, detection, antivirus, prevention), when did he install it, and did he keep everything up to date?  Unless he had a full suite of high quality secuity software installed and setup properly and always maintained, his security logs may not mean all that much.  Considering this was just a part-time effort by Paliano, him not seeing anything in a security log may not be all that impressive.

Different analogy: The claim that Hillary wasn't "hacked" is like saying your car wasn't broken into after you left it in Bed Stuy with all the doors and windows open and unlocked.

 

[Guest]

Was having a guarded discussion with by ex boss.  I report to someone above her as of January, but she's still one of the top tier executives at my company. (And a close friend).

She is ultra conservative, like Ted Cruz.  We were at Warner Bros. Studios once and she told me Harry Potter is pagan and she wouldn't let her son go near it.  

But even she acknowledges that a contest between Trump and Hillary is a no brainier for Hillary.  

She knows I am not nearly as right leaning, so assumed it was a no brainier for me.  My point was that it doesn't boil down to where we are in the presumed contest, it's that the system is so heavily broken that we've been manipulated into this awful choice divorced from what most of the populace want.  As a political brand, Hillary is a monopoly.

It's why I would rather have Bernie win than Hillary, because he wants to attack the root of the campaign finance and Wall Street influence problems.  I made the mistake of stating this.

Pretty sure she thinks I'm a communist now.

As fate would have it, we were on the same flight from Orlando (where we had meetings) and Dallas and sat together.  Sticking out of my bag was the Harry Potter wand I bought for my son.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There's been little serious talk about the effect of a Trump presidency on the economy. His tax plan would add more to the federal deficit than Hillary's and lead to higher interest rates. Only Bernie's plan is worse in this regard. His method of paying for the wall, a 35% import tax on cars from Mexico, would lead to a trade war. Cars would cost more more - a $20,000 car would cost $27,000. US exports would also be affected as Mexico would start to charge a 7.5% duty. Only  Canada imports more from the USA than Mexico. A trade war with Mexico would lead to a loss of US jobs. The loss of immigrants from Mexico would lead to higher food prices. If you like inflation, high interest rates and higher unemployment, vote for Trump. Trump can do real estate deals, but I have no confidence in his ability to help the US economy.  

Well what you described with Trump is the inevitable path of all populist leaders. Another issue is we cannot rely on his stated policies whatsoever. Absolutely anything could happen. - I also expect he will be either easy mark for access by his friends in the financial industry or totally disinterested in the boring details of financial regulation or he may just use his power to exact revenge on or intimidate his various enemies in the financial world. Take your pick they're all bad.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Was having a guarded discussion with by ex boss.  I report to someone above her as of January, but she's still one of the top tier executives at my company. (And a close friend).

She is ultra conservative, like Ted Cruz.  We were at Warner Bros. Studios once and she told me Harry Potter is pagan and she wouldn't let her son go near it.  

But even she acknowledges that a contest between Trump and Hillary is a no brainier for Hillary.  

She knows I am not nearly as right leaning, so assumed it was a no brainier for me.  My point was that it doesn't boil down to where we are in the presumed contest, it's that the system is so heavily broken that we've been manipulated into this awful choice divorced from what most of the populace want.  As a political brand, Hillary is a monopoly.

It's why I would rather have Bernie win than Hillary, because he wants to attack the root of the campaign finance and Wall Street influence problems.  I made the mistake of stating this.

Pretty sure she thinks I'm a communist now.

As fate would have it, we were on the same flight from Orlando (where we had meetings) and Dallas and sat together.  Sticking out of my bag was the Harry Potter wand I bought for my son.  

Does she have a nice rack?

 

[jon_mx]

Does she have a nice rack?

Why do you think his wand was sticking out?

 

[squistion]

Bill Madden ‏@activist360 12h12 hours ago

Bill Maher “Could there ever be a better argument for a women pres than the fact that members of the other party r arguing over **** size?”

 

[Guest]

Does she have a nice rack?

Can't imagine making any comment about her character that isn't positive.  One of the best people I know. At the risk of being too serious, respect for women in the workplace begins with avoiding objectification. I owe so much professionally and personally to this woman, I can't imagine going down this road.  

Many of the top executives in my sphere including our very famous CEO (who would blow Hillary out of the water if she ever went into politics) are women - and I'm glad for it.

Even if they think I'm an occult Communist.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Bill Madden ‏@activist360 12h12 hours ago

Bill Maher “Could there ever be a better argument for a women pres than the fact that members of the other party r arguing over **** size?”

“I can't think of anything more of an outsider than electing the first woman president,” she told Cooper when asked why the country should elect an insider, not an outsider.

 
What is it that makes her a woman again?
 

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Can't imagine making any comment about her character that isn't positive.  One of the best people I know. At the risk of being too serious, respect for women in the workplace begins with avoiding objectification. I owe so much professionally and personally to this woman, I can't imagine going down this road.  

Many of the top executives in my sphere including our very famous CEO (who would blow Hillary out of the water if she ever went into politics) are women - and I'm glad for it.

Even if they think I'm an occult Communist.

You are not at work and I'm not your coworker.

seriously though, nothing beats having a boss or upper management at your company that you really respect.

 

[Guest]

You are not at work and I'm not your coworker.

seriously though, nothing beats having a boss or upper management at your company that you really respect.

She has an enormous role managing a half billion dollar P&L and is insanely busy.  Within hours of my son dying she was in Austin and stayed for the entire week making sure (amongst many others I can never begin to repay) that everything was handled.  Goes beyond respect and you can see why I'm not keen to comment on her rack.  

 

[squistion]

What is it that makes her a woman again?

And what made Obama black again? Was it the simply the color of his skin that made him an outsider? It is also about having a different perspective and that was what Hillary was referring to. But if you want to believe otherwise and continue that meme carry on (and I would love to see Trump and the GOP use that argument in the general election).

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

And what made Obama black again? Was it the simply the color of his skin that made him an outsider? It is also about having a different perspective and that was what Hillary was referring to. But if you want to believe otherwise and continue that meme carry on (and I would love to see Trump and the GOP use that argument in the general election).

We're talking about Maher, here, right, so we're into sarcasm and satire? That's the meme I'm following. I'm trying to decide what's more ridiculous, Trump inviting everyone to lay their junk out on the table or Hillary in an actual presidential debate on national tv saying that her presidency would be different from Pres. Obama's because she has a vag1na. We know it's Trump, but it's a sliding scale of ridiculousness for sure.

 

[squistion]

We're talking about Maher, here, right, so we're into sarcasm and satire? That's the meme I'm following. I'm trying to decide what's more ridiculous, Trump inviting everyone to lay their junk out on the table or Hillary in an actual presidential debate on national tv saying that her presidency would be different from Pres. Obama's because she has a vag1na. We know it's Trump, but it's a sliding scale of ridiculousness for sure.

Again, the point she was making was that she would bring a different perspective to the presidency, much as Obama brought a different perspective as an African American.

 

[Trey]

With the expectation of losing 3/4 this weekend, Clinton camp noted today that they are up 199 pledged delegates which is a larger lead than Obama had at any point during 2008.

 

[squistion]

On a lighter note...

Kirsten ‏@rosegoggles 1h1 hour ago

You've Got Mail - Deleted #MakeAMovieFeelTheBern pic.twitter.com/UZpbx2CmvR

 
 
11:32 AM - 5 Mar 2016 · Details




61 retweets 101 likes
 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Well good it was a Friday night, I was out myself.

If you've read the article then you know they specifically referred to the "spear phishing" emails that turned up in Hillary's tranche. That's it.

You realize the the Speeding Ticket Trojan Horse emails, the fact that the server was not secured during the time it was being initially deployed (and Hillary was actually still using her AT&T account with a few exceptions), and the FBI investigating whether she shared passwords for the classified systems are all different things? Directly connecting these as dots together is incorrect? 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

In addition to what Rich said, it doesn't really matter whether any of the classified information Hillary sent and received was intercepted or not.  Drunk driving, for example, is unethical even if you manage to avoid getting into an accident.  Same thing here.  There's a reason why we ban people from behaving recklessly in situations where carelessness can potentially (but not certainly) result in serious damage.  

I largely agree with you and Rich about it not mattering whether the information was actually exposed.  

Except for the belief that the presence of "classified information" even in quantity in this instance automatically means "reckless behavior" (or worst).       

 

[MaxThreshold]

What Does Staffer Immunity Mean for Hillary Clinton?

The big question is whether there is a grand jury convened. The smart bet is yes. After all, the fact that there are immunity agreements logically means there's a grand jury investigation in some district. The grand jury is typically the genesis of the government's subpoena power. The next, bigger question, is whether anyone will be indicted...

...While Pagliano is surely in an unenviable, nail-biting position, we can draw some inferences from recent events. Whether he had zero potential liability, or some liability, he's probably not a "target." Why? Because if he were, his attorney would probably not let him talk to the government, and the government would probably not give him immunity. Remember, the government is parsimonious with immunity deals. Another, less reliable inference may be drawn not about Pagliano, but others who are not Pagliano.

The person who often has to worry the most during this process is the person who hasn't been approached at all by the government. That's a chilling indicator that you may be the target.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

You realize the the Speeding Ticket Trojan Horse emails, the fact that the server was not secured during the time it was being initially deployed (and Hillary was actually still using her AT&T account with a few exceptions), and the FBI investigating whether she shared passwords for the classified systems are all different things? Directly connecting these as dots together is incorrect? 

The NYT refers to the phishing attempts that were traced to Russia. That's what I'm referring to.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

You realize the the Speeding Ticket Trojan Horse emails, the fact that the server was not secured during the time it was being initially deployed (and Hillary was actually still using her AT&T account with a few exceptions), and the FBI investigating whether she shared passwords for the classified systems are all different things? Directly connecting these as dots together is incorrect? 

The NYT refers to the phishing attempts that were traced to Russia. That's what I'm referring to.

And?

Clinton received the infected emails, disguised as speeding tickets, over four hours early on the morning of August 3, 2011.

The emails instructed recipients to print the attached tickets, which would have allowed hackers to take control of their computers.

Security researchers who analyzed the malicious software in September 2011 said that infected computers would transmit information from victims to at least three server computers overseas, including one in Russia.

But that doesn't necessarily mean Russian intelligence or citizens were responsible.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yes BFS, that's it, that's what I was referring to.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

OMG Hillary has adopted Obama's branding right down to the font out of nowhere, hilarious.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Sure, but it's my understanding, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that Hillary DID use a secure network for classified material. What happened was that a small number of the emails that went into her non-classified email account were later made classified. If Hillary had used an official state department account, the same thing would have happened. 

Absolutely.  This was settled around August! 

Negative!

So it still may be OK for a government employee to take classified information and email it to someone just as long as they use their .gov email account?  This is still open for debate?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

I think Tim's thread title change is going to be the kiss of death...seems like Cruz and Bernie are in for big nights.

 

[jon_mx]

So it still may be OK for a government employee to take classified information and email it to someone just as long as they use their .gov email account?  This is still open for debate?

I am not sure that is the point people were taking issue with.  And Tim was not talking about a .gov account but a secured network, SIPrnet. 

 

[jon_mx]

So does Ted have a better chance at beating Hillary than the Trumpster?

 

[Card Trader]

So does Ted have a better chance at beating Hillary than the Trumpster?

No, because I can't think Independents would vote for him, and for sure there will be no Dem crossover.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Yes BFS, that's it, that's what I was referring to.

Yes I know!  If Hillary had actually been so concerned that she received a speeding ticket that she was tricked and clicked on the Trojan Horse her device may have been compromised along with whatever systems it may have been attached.  Sure!    But that would not be a topic of discussion for the FBI agents specifically checking to see if the passwords she (or her aids) were given to secured systems housing classified documents were shared among each other or others.   

 

[Guest]

Candidate thread title changes if Hillary is indicted:

The thread that isn't happening

Hillary for Secretary of State... Prison

Open letter to Bill: Why Hillary is worth waiting for

[/Hard delete]

 

[jon_mx]

No, because I can't think Independents would vote for him, and for sure there will be no Dem crossover.

I doubt that offsets the large number of conservatives and establishment-types who would not vote for Trump.  

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Hillary gets two Pinocchios on claim about Flint.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I am not sure that is the point people were taking issue with.  And Tim was not talking about a .gov account but a secured network, SIPrnet. 

That is probably why you were wrong. 

Tim said "... What happened was that a small number of the emails that went into her non-classified email account were later made classified. If Hillary had used an official state department account, the same thing would have happened."

He is talking about "an official state department account".  A ".gov" account.  Where routine, "non secure" email resides.  Where classified information should not be found.  





 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yes I know!  If Hillary had actually been so concerned that she received a speeding ticket that she was tricked and clicked on the Trojan Horse her device may have been compromised along with whatever systems it may have been attached.  Sure!    But that would not be a topic of discussion for the FBI agents specifically checking to see if the passwords she (or her aids) were given to secured systems housing classified documents were shared among each other or others.   

Well I think we know by now there are a lot of issues covering a lot of ground requiring a lot of agents. We only see the part of the iceberg just tipping above surface or allowed to. What is being leaked right now and why is the interesting thing to me. This information seems like a re-leak to me. I thought you might raise the access logs, now those would reflect the who, when and where if access by users, the fact that Pags turned that information over last fall and yet that issue is being pursued now is interesting because that should be just as resolved as the singular phishing issue but it's not.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Hillary gets two Pinocchios on claim about Flint.

" Unless new information comes to light showing Snyder’s direct involvement, we will regard this as a Two Pinocchio claim. There is some smoke — but no fire. "

Sorry Maurile, Washington Post but that standard doesn't fly in this thread.

 

[jon_mx]

That is probably why you were wrong. 

Tim said "... What happened was that a small number of the emails that went into her non-classified email account were later made classified. If Hillary had used an official state department account, the same thing would have happened."

He is talking about "an official state department account".  A ".gov" account.  Where routine, "non secure" email resides.  Where classified information should not be found.  

 

Partly.  But I am also troubled by the claim it was a 'small number' and that they all were retroactive classifications.  

 

[timschochet]

I think Tim's thread title change is going to be the kiss of death...seems like Cruz and Bernie are in for big nights.

Happens to me a lot. 

I'll gladly take a Bernie candidacy in exchange for the end of Trump. 

But realistically Sanders is going to win 3 out of 4 tonight, but he needs to win Michigan to change the momentum around. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I largely agree with you and Rich about it not mattering whether the information was actually exposed.  

Except for the belief that the presence of "classified information" even in quantity in this instance automatically means "reckless behavior" (or worst).       

That's fair.  You and I disagree on the second point, but that's a separate issue from whether the server or information on it was ever actually compromised.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So does Ted have a better chance at beating Hillary than the Trumpster?

If Cruz gets the nomination, the Republicans will have successfully avoided nominating the worst possible candidate by instead nominating the second worst possible candidate.  But yeah, I think he clearly would have a better chance than Trump.

 

[The Commish]

Again, the point she was making was that she would bring a different perspective to the presidency, much as Obama brought a different perspective as an African American.

Yeah...not sure about that.  Obama's ability to bring a different perspective was more due to his lack of experience and his ideology.  Hillary has been working towards this for decades and her ideology is that of the establishment.  Not much of a change in perspective at all if you step back and think about it for a second

 

[The Commish]

I largely agree with you and Rich about it not mattering whether the information was actually exposed.  

Except for the belief that the presence of "classified information" even in quantity in this instance automatically means "reckless behavior" (or worst).       

I'd probably be on board with you 100% if this information showed up on the .gov network.  That wouldn't be any different than the "oooops" sorts of emails being used by Hillary supporters for her actions....that "see, it happens a lot" meme would be more applicable, but that's not what happened.  We'd probably know for sure that the servers were hacked in that case and do the damage control accordingly.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Partly.  But I am also troubled by the claim it was a 'small number' and that they all were retroactive classifications.  

All of her emails that were marked as classified were retroactively classified since the summer.   I don't know why this is debated.  It isn't really interesting or relevant.  The question still remains how did the classified information get there?  What is the nature of the information?   Would reasonable people trained in handling classified materials disagree as to whether the information was obviously classified (or should be)?

Until the above is answered, the quantity doesn't really mean much.  One email that undeniably threatened national security is too much.   Two thousand emails where someone writes that they heard at the water cooler some interesting tidbit which no one would ever think of as classified  just happened to actually be classified ending up in her inbox would be different.  So far the worst of the worst have been discussions of newspaper articles, a summary of a conference call, and "intelligence" sent from a private citizen.

 

[jon_mx]

All of her emails that were marked as classified were retroactively classified since the summer.   I don't know why this is debated.  It isn't really interesting or relevant.  The question still remains how did the classified information get there?  What is the nature of the information?   Would reasonable people trained in handling classified materials disagree as to whether the information was obviously classified (or should be)?

Until the above is answered, the quantity doesn't really mean much.  One email that undeniably threatened national security is too much.   Two thousand emails where someone writes that they heard at the water cooler some interesting tidbit which no one would ever think of as classified  just happened to actually be classified ending up in her inbox would be different.  So far the worst of the worst have been discussions of newspaper articles, a summary of a conference call, and "intelligence" sent from a private citizen.

We still don't know much about the 22 top secret.  It is still mostly speculation on both sides based upon leaked information.   

 

[The Commish]

All of her emails that were marked as classified were retroactively classified since the summer.   I don't know why this is debated.  It isn't really interesting or relevant.  The question still remains how did the classified information get there?  What is the nature of the information?   Would reasonable people trained in handling classified materials disagree as to whether the information was obviously classified (or should be)?

Until the above is answered, the quantity doesn't really mean much.  One email that undeniably threatened national security is too much.   Two thousand emails where someone writes that they heard at the water cooler some interesting tidbit which no one would ever think of as classified  just happened to actually be classified ending up in her inbox would be different.  So far the worst of the worst have been discussions of newspaper articles, a summary of a conference call, and "intelligence" sent from a private citizen.

Pretty much why the email content hasn't been relevant to my judgment.  Just going out and setting up the server is the event that did it for me.

 

[timschochet]

If Cruz gets the nomination, the Republicans will have successfully avoided nominating the worst possible candidate by instead nominating the second worst possible candidate.  But yeah, I think he clearly would have a better chance than Trump.

There's a lot of disagreement about who Hillary would have an easier time beating. 

But I don't care. As I wrote in the other thread, at least Cruz respects our constitution and system of government. I hope he is the nominee.