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Thanks.
I never understood why more politicians don't do this. Almost every politician is full of it and has flip flopped all over the place for most of their careers. I'm always baffled that they don't lay out the BS in a point by point basis like she did there.
25 right.
I did the bold already, but I don't think he's going to be an option in the general so I am voting third party. To answer the "why" around Trump's treatment, it's simple. He's hitting that anger component over and over. I think everyone, including the media, made a huge mistake not going after his nonsense at the beginning. He's controlling the media. THAT is on the media and fuels my overall distaste for the greater group. I know there are exceptions, but if things were really reversed and the list of quality journalists in the press was really longer than that of those lacking quality, we wouldn't have this Trump problem IMO. I know you and a couple others have been on the "WTF....why isn't anyone challenging this moron" train for a long time and its a valid question. Simply put, its a failure of the media to do their job.Cool. My hope us that eventually people like yourself will read enough stuff like this that they'll realize that this isn't just a huge pile of reasons not to vote for him, but is in fact sufficient reason to do everything you possibly can to make sure he doesn't win, up to and including voting for whoever has the best chance of keeping him out of the white house, even if it's someone you don't like
One problem with electing him, btw, is that if he wins he doesn't have to learn any lessons. If the people support him through all this garbage there's no reason he can't continue to do it. He can blackball reporters/outlets from covering his White House. He can continue to provide false information without consequence and vilify any reporter who dares to ask him about it, inevitably subjecting that reporter to tons of harassment and nasty attacks that frequently crosses the line into racism/antisemitism/etc. from his supporters, which already happens constantly and which he has never condemned.
Anyway, now that you're a little familiar with how he treats the press and the dangers that presents, you might be interested in checking out the dangers of his recent comments about the judge. Here's some links 1 2
Finally, consider this: what would happen if Clinton had the week that Trump is having? If she launched into a long, angry, unhinged tirade about the media at a political event, including calling out some of them out by name and insulting them? If documents in a civil proceeding exposed her as the heavily involved lead actor in an elaborate scam that instructed salespeople to aggressively target poor people including single mothers and encourage them to hand over thousands of dollars, on their credit cards if necessary? If she went after a judge in a matter where she was a defendant with racially charged criticism and unfounded allegations of bias? She'd have been forced out of the race already. Why are we OK with this double standard, and is it possible that it colors some of the negative perceptions of Clinton?
TF, I think you are wrong. The reason why so many people voted for Trump is the problem. That reason simply doesn't go away if and when Trump is defeated. In fact, I suspect 4 years of Hillary will only make those who voted for Trump more angry, more anti-government and more willing to support a candidate like Trump next time aorund. Everyone needs to focus on the disease instead of the symptom here.
And what disease is that?
That (the disease) is what we really should be discussing. If you can't figure out what it is, we should be discussing why that is.
I'm not trying to send a message. Other than "scapegoating, aspiring to commit war crimes, pushing for religious discrimination at our borders and mind-boggling ignorance on important issues are bad things." Does that count as a message?
One. One I guessed right.
That's what we're doing, isn't it? We're discussing what the message is and why I can't figure it out.
And that is the problem with Hillary Clinton - any message that her supporters may want to send is obfuscated by the fact that they've chosen Hillary ####ing Clinton as their messenger.
What part of "I'm not trying to send a message" confused you, champ?
Now this is good strategy. Take on every single tweet. The guy is basically an internet troll in the flesh. Attack him at his core.
Early in this thread and the Bernie thread I said (along with a couple others) that we were underestimating the motivations out of "anger". Even I did as I didn't really expect Trump to do all that well, much less win he nomination. I hate that I have to agree with this, but I believe it's a reality. If things don't go well, there's going to be more to the smoke on the Dem side also. Anger hasn't been tapped in that group like it has in the GOP....yet. I can't envision both parties in a meltdown state like that. I have no idea where it would go or what it would look like, but it can't be pretty. It's most certainly going to get worse before it gets better.
No, the messengers were those who voted for the orange-colored bigoted #######. What message do you see them sending? Why are they so angry at mainstream politicians that they would vote for Trump?
Dunno.
I think white non-college educated males are getting the message Trump will work for them by bringing jobs back to America through preventing illegal immigration into America, bringing back the jobs lost to China, Mexico, lost to energy policy, etc. You know, Make America Great Again. These are false, backward looking promises he won't be able to keep. Throw in the corrupt politicians, the dirty media, etc. That's the message that seems to be resonating.
But what are they angry at? Every time I ask for a meaningful articulation I'm met with either illogical nonsense or a response that has nothing whatsoever to do with the candidacy of Donald Trump.
Maybe you can't see it because of your world-view or something, but most believe government is broken and lifetime politicians are corrupt. There was a great post in the Trump thread which I thought expressed the anger and frustration felt by Trump supporters. I can't figure out how to paste a thread there into a response here, but check it out.
That makes a little more sense I guess, but this is nothing new. We've heard those same complaints for our entire lives. This Simpsons clip is 22 years old. So why Trump, and why now?
She met Benghazi head on and testified for 11 hours before the Congressional Committee.
Clinton's speech yesterday basically made the case that Trump is awful and she's not Trump. That will likely be the central argument of her presidential campaign. So it seems reasonable for that lead to a discussion of whether Trump is truly as awful as she portrayed him to be, and if so why so many people still support himHmm I appear to be in the wrong thread. For some reason I thought this was the Clnton thread.
I think that the rising costs of health insurance might have been the tipping point. Then comes along someone who initially appeared to be very charismatic and who could fund his own campaign. You never really know when the cauldron is going to boil over.
Health insurance costs have been rising for quite some time ... and Trump's support seems to be coming from the people who more often than not are helped by Obamacare, not those who are hurt by it.
So, basically, she racked up a bunch a frequent flyer miles, and everywhere she went people hate us more.
This has never surfaced anywhere close to as strongly until this year and political corruption is as old as politics themselves. Most of the country is absolutely significantly better off today than we were a decade ago. We've had a black President for eight years. An openly racist populist won the nomination of a major political party. I'll let you connect the dots.
Really? So when all else fails, resort to the Race card? I mean, how typical is that for a lefty? You guys have a reason for ANYTHING that's other than Race?
So Max, what's your (coherent) theory on why Trump resonates the way he does (primarily with white male christians)
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high, unless Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck talking points count as "coherent" to you.
Yes, that's correct: When all else fails. I've been asking for hours/days/months for a good explanation of why people might support Donald Trump for president, and I haven't gotten one yet. Every vague explanation I've gotten has been either a bunch of empty double-speak featuring variations on "make America great again" or easily refuted as total nonsense.
It makes sense - you just don't see it because your assumptions are getting in the way. Happens to everyone.
Huh? Tax rates have been steady for nearly every American for like a decade now. I honestly don't even remember the last broad rate increase.
Go back as far as you want. When were things really significantly better? The 90s? Eh, tech and housing bubbles were eventually going to burst pretty much regardless of what anyone did or didn't do. The 50s? Maybe in some ways. But you go back that far and things were absolutely worse in many ways for huge chunks of the population also. I get that Trump supporters feel that the government has failed them. It's obvious. I'm arguing that that isn't the case in reality. Things are actually pretty good here. There's room for improvement, of course, but overall, things are good.
