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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (5 Viewers)

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msommer said:
Fact based like contrails?

Or like fact facts?
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Like IG report #1 damning, #2 on way and addressing criminality.  Investigation stretching most likely means case being built and expanding.  Laws clearly broken based in what's on the public record.  Like facts, facts.  

 
Coeur de Lion said:
I'll take a link to me ever mentioning racism in any thread, ever, anywhere online without it being related specifically to Donald Trump. I've been on this board since the beginning so it shouldn't be too hard to find if I'm seeing it in everything that I disagree with.

It's a fact that Trump campaign staff follow open white supremacists on twitter. It's a fact that Trump retweets stuff tagged with #WhiteGenocide. It's a fact that the chairman of the American Freedom Party was selected by the Trump campaign as a delegate for California. It's a fact that Trump felt it was appropriate to attack a federal judge by saying that he is Mexican (the guy is actually an American born in Indiana). It's a fact that Trump dissembled and played dumb when asked about David Duke.

Sorry that your party has been hijacked by a bigoted moron. If you support him, guess what that makes you?
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So then I guess your support of Hillary makes you a corrupt and dishonest POS?  Okay.

 
MaxThreshold said:
I have no idea because I'm not a Trump supporter, but I'm not going to call an entire group of people racists because they don't vote the way I do.  Or because no one on a message board doesn't respond to my questions.

That's the problem with you lefties: RACE is always the root answer for you.  Maybe it's the failure of Obamacare and all of the lies that went with it...maybe its just that they don't like Democrats...maybe it's the awful foreign policy of the Obama admin...or maybe it's all that and more.  I'm not going to stoop to them being a bunch of racists as the answer.  You guys have been using that for YEARS against those with opposing views that it's basically lost it's meaning.  "Racist" now means anyone who doesn't vote Democrat.

So when you stoop to calling other's racist, I say piss off.  YOU'RE the ones being unreasonable and you've immediately lost any semblance of an argument.
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Here's the problem with this argument, Max: for years a certain segment of liberals have called conservatives racist when they're really not. And it has pissed you off and you're right to be pissed off. They act like just because you prefer private sector solutions instead of government solutions, you hate all minorities. It's been a meme of their's for decades now (just as, conversely, it's been a meme of conservatives to paint all liberals as unpatriotic- the two accusations are practically mirror images of each other.) 

The problem is that this time around, for the FIRST TIME, you have chosen a candidate to lead your party who actually IS a racist and a bigot. And by doing so all of your protestations that conservatives are not racists and bigots lose credibility. So long as you have this guy at the head of your party, suddenly all of the liberal accusations, which were unfair and unfounded before 2016, are real and can't be denied. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Oh hey


 


Let's see if this gets as much attention as the polls showing the two tied or Trump in the lead.
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Of course it won't; it's far more interesting to the media when the two are close, and far more satisfying to the Clinton haters in this thread.

The thing is, the Democratic party STILL is not unified. As soon as there is one nominee, watch out. This could get very ugly (for Donald Trump.) 

 
Under the Espionage Act it is a felony for a federal official to “knowingly remove classified material without the authority to do so and with the intention of keeping that material at an unauthorized location.” That alone can lead to a one-year prison sentence. If the classified material is then made available to an “unauthorized person,” it can lead to 10 years in prison — 15 if the information identifies a U.S. covert agent.

 
timschochet said:
Here's the problem with this argument, Max: for years a certain segment of liberals have called conservatives racist when they're really not. And it has pissed you off and you're right to be pissed off. They act like just because you prefer private sector solutions instead of government solutions, you hate all minorities. It's been a meme of their's for decades now (just as, conversely, it's been a meme of conservatives to paint all liberals as unpatriotic- the two accusations are practically mirror images of each other.) 

The problem is that this time around, for the FIRST TIME, you have chosen a candidate to lead your party who actually IS a racist and a bigot. And by doing so all of your protestations that conservatives are not racists and bigots lose credibility. So long as you have this guy at the head of your party, suddenly all of the liberal accusations, which were unfair and unfounded before 2016, are real and can't be denied. 
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Let's make one thing CRYSTAL CLEAR here:  I do not and never have supported Trump.  He is not on any of my "lists of people to vote for".

I take umbrage with the fact that we have a bunch of posters who think it's okay to call anyone who supports him a racist.  That in no way means I support Trump.

 
Rich Conway said:
I have a theory.  My theory is that Trump resonates because 75% of the population are idiots.
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This is has been true since the country began, and probably less true now that it's ever been (though still true nonetheless.)

Somehow, however, we have avoided populists like Trump for the most part in the past. We've had some pretty good leaders. The "system" protects us from ourselves. Which is why it amazes me that so many smart people want to tear it down and somehow make us more democratic. If we were to become more democratic, and less oligarchic, would we end up with more Trump types or less? My guess is a lot more. 

 
Coeur de Lion said:
So, exactly how has the government failed you specifically? We talking just the Obama administration here, or does the problem extend beyond that into the Bush years?
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Me? It did nothing to address my specific rising medical costs. It has screwed me on spouse social security. It has drove high paying jobs out of this country - you think I like working in Mexico? That's just off the top of my head.

 
timschochet said:
This is has been true since the country began, and probably less true now that it's ever been (though still true nonetheless.)

Somehow, however, we have avoided populists like Trump for the most part in the past. We've had some pretty good leaders. The "system" protects us from ourselves. Which is why it amazes me that so many smart people want to tear it down and somehow make us more democratic. If we were to become more democratic, and less oligarchic, would we end up with more Trump types or less? My guess is a lot more. 
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Andrew Jackson was a populist.

 
MaxThreshold said:
I stand corrected.  Let me rephrase that:  

"So then I guess anyone who supports Hillary makes them a corrupt and dishonest POS?  Okay."

Of course, I don't support Trump either.
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"More OK with run-of-the-mill lying politician than with a dangerous, unqualified, moronic reality TV bigot" I'd get behind. Hillary is truly awful, but, I'm pretty sure that the country will survive another 4 years of the same self-serving political BS that we've dealt with since, I dunno, maybe Jimmy Carter (who sucked out loud as President, but was at least a genuinely good human being). Trump sitting in the Oval Office talking about defaulting on the national debt or giving nuclear weapons to the Saudis? Not so much.

 
bueno said:
Andrew Jackson was a populist.
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Yes. The one exception. Though in studying his life, I suspect that he was more of a serious politician who took advantage of populist fervor rather than a true populist. 

In any case, his Presidency was certainly a mixed bag. And overall he should be regarded as an evil man and a mass murderer, IMO. 

 
Coeur de Lion said:
"More OK with run-of-the-mill lying politician than with a dangerous, unqualified, moronic reality TV bigot" I'd get behind. Hillary is truly awful, but, I'm pretty sure that the country will survive another 4 years of the same self-serving political BS that we've dealt with since, I dunno, maybe Jimmy Carter (who sucked out loud as President, but was at least a genuinely good human being). Trump sitting in the Oval Office talking about defaulting on the national debt or giving nuclear weapons to the Saudis? Not so much.
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I don't think HRC is any better than Trump.  They are both pieces of human garbage.

 
squistion said:
It will not lead to an indictment but since you refuse to stand behind any of your daily predictions that Hillary will be indicted, there is no point in discussing this any further.
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That's a precursor.  The indictment won't be for her (albeit blatant) disregard for records policy.  It will be for her criminal negligence related to handling of the classified data, with the IG report from State merely bolstering the case for intent to circumvent protocols and best practices.

About the bet...  I don't bet with emotion.  I could go to any betting market and get odds.  So I'm not entering into an even money bet with you, merely because I can get a better price elsewhere.  My unwillingness to engage with your bad deal has nothing to do with my confidence in the FBI.

 
squistion said:
It will not lead to an indictment but since you refuse to stand behind any of your daily predictions that Hillary will be indicted, there is no point in discussing this any further.
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Link?  If you can't find one I'll just assume that your declaration has no more or no less merit than Mr. Ham's declaration that she will be indicted.

 
MaxThreshold said:
Link?  If you can't find one I'll just assume that your declaration has no more or no less merit than Mr. Ham's declaration that she will be indicted.
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It's clear based in the IG report published so far and what's on the public record, as well as the behavior (non-cooperation, immunity given, "I don't recall"), that the Espionage Act was violated.  Intent to harm is not a standard.  Squis and others merely have a sensibility that she won't be indicted for the politics.  This is divorced from the reality of what she actually did and the statutes involved.

 
BassNBrew said:
Probably the same reason Bernie is giving Clinton a tough contest when she had every advantage possible going into the race.  Probably the same reason Obama became the first ever incumbent re-elected with a smaller percentage of the popular vote.  The people want change.  Now you can argue the Trump is a bad change.

While you claim we a good shape relatively speaking, Wall Street and millionaire class are in much better shape.
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What gets me is up until the election season, liberals were crying about the shrinking middle class. Now we're in good shape? WTF?

 
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bueno said:
What gets me is up until the election season, liberals were crying baout the shrinking middle class. Now we're in good shape? WTF?
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Holy Shnikes this is a fantastic point.  We should repeat this more often.

Also, remember when they also said the GOP is using the fear card to get votes?  Now it's "TRUMP IS GOING TO DROP THE BOMB!".  Yeah, good times.

 
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Mr. Ham said:
That's a precursor.  The indictment won't be for her (albeit blatant) disregard for records policy.  It will be for her criminal negligence related to handling of the classified data, with the IG report from State merely bolstering the case for intent to circumvent protocols and best practices.

About the bet...  I don't bet with emotion.  I could go to any betting market and get odds.  So I'm not entering into an even money bet with you, merely because I can get a better price elsewhere.  My unwillingness to engage with your bad deal has nothing to do with my confidence in the FBI.
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:bs:

 
MaxThreshold said:
Link?  If you can't find one I'll just assume that your declaration has no more or no less merit than Mr. Ham's declaration that she will be indicted.
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Except for the fact I am willing put money on it and Mr. Ham won't. Bottom line he really doesn't believe what he is saying.

 
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squistion said:
Except for the fact I will put money on it and Mr. Ham won't. Bottom line he really doesn't believe what he is saying.
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Betting money has nothing to do with being right or wrong.  Maybe he's dead broke and doesn't have any money?  That doesn't make his statement any less or any more probable than yours.

You keep acting as if betting is the be all and all of the truth.  Far from it.

 
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The irrational level of hate for Hillary I see on the forums here from both right and left wing posters is so hard to comprehend. 

She might be one of the most qualified candidates to run for President in decades. She's not Donald Trump. She's as close to Obama (who has been a great President) as there is in this race. 

I can't fathom the amount of hate here. I realize some of my compatriots who support her just refuse to give an inch on anything irritate people. They know who they are, we know who they are, who cares? Tommy, squistion, Tobias, Tim would probably be the first to admit they are a little hard headed on their support for her,  but I completely get it and where they are coming from. I recognize she has her issues, but see above re: her candidacy. 

Republicans ####ed up. Bad. Trump can't and won't happen. Hillary is a lifetime politician, they all have warts and flaws, but she is the most qualified to deal with everything hands down. 

I'm sorry for being Hillary rump swab to my friends on the far left and far right, but come on. Enough with the ####### email server for Christ sake. She wasn't wasn't subversively trading nuclear war codes with Putin here. 

Oy vey.

 
CBusAlex said:
Have you?
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No.  This absurd line of thought that conviction equals making is :loco:.  I believe we're going to have an above average hurricane season.  My unwillingness to put $500 on it does not equate to a reversal of that belief.  I will make a $100 donation to a (valid) charity of Squis' choice if Hillary is in the ballot in November, at no risk to him.  Although I don't need to do that to express my conviction, I will do that. 

 
MaxThreshold said:
I don't think HRC is any better than Trump.  They are both pieces of human garbage.
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Your partisan-ness is blinding you then. Were you screaming about the Reagan administration like you are about Hillary? Because Reagan made Hillary look like a freaking amateur when it cam to scandal and corruption. He was also a very effective President. The Bush administration misled the country to start a war. They're all politicians, it's what they do. They're smooth professional liars.

Trump isn't in that conversation. He's every bit as dishonest but comes with the added bonus of being a completely ignorant dope who is too arrogant to know how dumb he is. He's infinitely more dangerous to the country than a dozen Clintons. Which of course is why he's going to get his ### handed to him in November.

 
MaxThreshold said:
Betting money has nothing to do with being right or wrong.  Maybe he's dead broke and doesn't have any money?  That doesn't make his statement any less or any more probable than yours.

You keep acting as if betting is the be all and all of the truth.  Far from it.
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Actually, a hundred bucks is immaterial to me.  I'm just not going to enter into a bad deal as an extension of my balls, when I can get a much better deal on an open market.  I'd like to think is is partially why $100 is immaterial to me.  

 
Mr. Ham said:
No.  This absurd line of thought that conviction equals making is :loco:.  I believe we're going to have an above average hurricane season.  My unwillingness to put $500 on it does not equate to a reversal of that belief.  I will make a $100 donation to a (valid) charity of Squis' choice if Hillary is in the ballot in November, at no risk to him.  Although I don't need to do that to express my conviction, I will do that. 
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Squiz hates charities.  Absolutely hates'em.  Don't get him started, please.

 
John Bender said:
The irrational level of hate for Hillary I see on the forums here from both right and left wing posters is so hard to comprehend. 

She might be one of the most qualified candidates to run for President in decades. She's not Donald Trump. She's as close to Obama (who has been a great President) as there is in this race. 

I can't fathom the amount of hate here. I realize some of my compatriots who support her just refuse to give an inch on anything irritate people. They know who they are, we know who they are, who cares? Tommy, squistion, Tobias, Tim would probably be the first to admit they are a little hard headed on their support for her,  but I completely get it and where they are coming from. I recognize she has her issues, but see above re: her candidacy. 

Republicans ####ed up. Bad. Trump can't and won't happen. Hillary is a lifetime politician, they all have warts and flaws, but she is the most qualified to deal with everything hands down. 

I'm sorry for being Hillary rump swab to my friends on the far left and far right, but come on. Enough with the ####### email server for Christ sake. She wasn't wasn't subversively trading nuclear war codes with Putin here. 

Oy vey.
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This was said about Bush I as well.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Your partisan-ness is blinding you then. Were you screaming about the Reagan administration like you are about Hillary? Because Reagan made Hillary look like a freaking amateur when it cam to scandal and corruption. He was also a very effective President. The Bush administration misled the country to start a war. They're all politicians, it's what they do. They're smooth professional liars.

Trump isn't in that conversation. He's every bit as dishonest but comes with the added bonus of being a completely ignorant dope who is too arrogant to know how dumb he is. He's infinitely more dangerous to the country than a dozen Clintons. Which of course is why he's going to get his ### handed to him in November.
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And this is what Trump supporters are rebelling against. As soon as the country realizes t his the better. Because if we don't fix the corrupt system, it is only going to get worse. Trump is a quick disaster. Hilary is a slow one.

 
timschochet said:
Lol It's only a handful of movies. 
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Things Dudes Cry over:

  • Birth of a child
  • Daughter getting married
  • Ex-wife getting re-married (no more alimony and now she's someone else's problem)
  • Spilled Beer
Things dudes DON'T cry over:

  • Speeches by politicians

    You literally will have to give up your man card

 
MaxThreshold said:
Things Dudes Cry over:

  • Birth of a child    
  • Daughter getting married
  • Ex-wife getting re-married (no more alimony and now she's someone else's problem)
  • Spilled Beer
Things dudes DON'T cry over:

  • Speeches by politicians

    You literally will have to give up your man card
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FYP. HTH

(And the daughter getting married is just a maybe at this point)

 
CBusAlex said:
Well, if you tell yourself "I believe Hillary Clinton will be indicted", but what you actually anticipate is that if you made that bet, you would probably lose it, then what you had wasn't really a belief in the first place.
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Negative.  Got to side with Ham on this one.   What if Ham has no money?  He's a bum on the street and all he has is his opinion, like you.  Does the fact that he can't place a bet make him wrong?

 
CBusAlex said:
Well, if you tell yourself "I believe Hillary Clinton will be indicted", but what you actually anticipate is that if you made that bet, you would probably lose it, then what you had wasn't really a belief in the first place.
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That's wise.  Let me break down the math.  Let's say I wanted to bet money on it.  I really don't.  (Interest, not conviction).  If I can, stay with me, go to an online market and put down a hundred bucks to win five hundred bucks, or bet a hundred to win a hundred with Squis because he's having a tantrum, I wouldn't bet Squis.  It's irrational.  Starting to see where the broken critical thought process emanates with some of you.

 
Mr. Ham said:
No.  This absurd line of thought that conviction equals making is :loco:.  I believe we're going to have an above average hurricane season.  My unwillingness to put $500 on it does not equate to a reversal of that belief.  I will make a $100 donation to a (valid) charity of Squis' choice if Hillary is in the ballot in November, at no risk to him.  Although I don't need to do that to express my conviction, I will do that. 
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That is all very nice, but means nothing if it is money you were planning to give or always give to charity anyway. Say you normally make an annual year end donation of $500 to The Little Sisters of the Poor. But this year you give only $400 to The Little Sisters and also donate $100 to my charity, The Twitter Relief Fund. Now, you have made a great show of supposedly setting the bet by donating to the charity of my choice (and The Tweeters Fund would be grateful) but the bottom line is that you aren't out any more money than you were before you made the bet, you just broke up the same amount, $500 into separate donations of $400 and $100.

 
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