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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (4 Viewers)

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timschochet said:
Nobody cares about the "debacle from last night". 

In a few days, a week at most, nobody's going to be talking about Bernie Sanders anymore. He'll have his moment at the convention, but all of the attention will be Hillary Trump. Hillary Trump 24/7 for the next 5 months. Get ready. 
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Nice Tim, so basically just discount all those people that worked so hard for so long for Bernie. Do you honestly believe because the media isn't discussing Bernie that his supporters are just going to forget about him and fall in line behind Clinton and her shenanigans . 

You need the Bernie supporters or your girl's going to lose. 

 But It frankly is unfair that I am  in here posting in this thread. Your candidate won and I don't want to poop on that  

Enjoy!! Look forward to the general. 

 
cap'n grunge said:
LOL

Don't be so freaking naive. If course it was. It's smart politics. It's all about narrative. Always was, always will be. No need to vote Bernie fans, he's already done.

:rolleyes:
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Am I the only one who thought it would swing the other way?  That such an announcement would piss Sandsrs voters off and get them out to vote to show it was premature and Hillary voters would stay home because their work was done?

 
Watching clips of Hillary's speech last night, sounds like President Snow from Hunger games, and gives me chills (not in a good way)

 
How many times in the future do you think Trump will tell people he's great for women because he intentionally tanked his candidacy to get the first female President elected?

 
ArbyMelt said:
Watching clips of Hillary's speech last night, sounds like President Snow from Hunger games, and gives me chills (not in a good way)
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This.  The race is all but over, pending an indictment that ought to come.  Just a sad period in American history, all around.  

 
cap'n grunge said:
LOL

Don't be so freaking naive. If course it was. It's smart politics. It's all about narrative. Always was, always will be. No need to vote Bernie fans, he's already done.

:rolleyes:
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You think it was the Clinton camp that pushed AP to lie about the delegate count, though?  My understanding was that it was the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires.

 
TobiasFunke said:
You think it was the Clinton camp that pushed AP to lie about the delegate count, though?  My understanding was that it was the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires.
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It's a pretty obvious political move. I didn't say it was a lie. It's merely havibg surrogates connect with the media and push a narrative that they felt comfortable that they have secured enough party insiders who unofficially put her past the finish line. The media loves a great story and of course jumps on it to confirm and reports her having clinched. It was a move clearly meant to discourage her opponent's supporters and keep them at home.

It's all about narrative. It was from the beginning when she successfully purchased the vast majority of superdelegates and ran as the presumptive nominee hundreds of delegates ahead from the start.

So go ahead and mock me all you want as some conspiracy theorist. It's called politics plain and simple. Her campaign made the right moves to ensure her spot at the end.

You and her other supporters are right though. Bottom line is she convinced more people to pull the lever for her than Bernie and now we all get to share in that fallout. Lucky us.

 
avoiding injuries said:
I don't think it mattered much either way. 
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I agree.  The handwriting has been on the wall for a while now.  Last night the message from Democrat voters was "let's get this over with and get down to the business of defeating Donald Trump".   After the events of the last week I don't think there's much appetite for a civil war within the party anymore. 

 
Courtjester said:
As the father of two girls 16-11, this should be a moment I can show them to be proud of, but she is so dirty and unworthy, I can't.

Hey, your husband has cheated on you repeatedly and belittled you publicly over and over, but  you should stay, not because you want the marriage to work, but sell yourself out because you want to advance yourself politically.

Literally the worst woman candidate if there ever was one  
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I condemn this woman for the decisions she's made in her personal life.  That's why I'm supporting a thrice-married sleaze who cheated on his first wife with his second one and bragged about it in the tabloids, a man who has spent virtually his entire life treating women as objects.

Look, I have two daughters too. When they're old enough to understand it I will tell them I voted for the first female nominee for president in this country's history in 2016. Other men will tell the women in their lives that they voted for this man in 2016. That's our choice now.  It's not perfect but it'll have to do. All of us who have daughters are much bigger role models for our girls than a president is anyway, so hopefully we'll do right by them when we make this decision.

 
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cap'n grunge said:
It's a pretty obvious political move. I didn't say it was a lie. It's merely havibg surrogates connect with the media and push a narrative that they felt comfortable that they have secured enough party insiders who unofficially put her past the finish line. The media loves a great story and of course jumps on it to confirm and reports her having clinched. It was a move clearly meant to discourage her opponent's supporters and keep them at home.

It's all about narrative. It was from the beginning when she successfully purchased the vast majority of superdelegates and ran as the presumptive nominee hundreds of delegates ahead from the start.

So go ahead and mock me all you want as some conspiracy theorist. It's called politics plain and simple. Her campaign made the right moves to ensure her spot at the end.

You and her other supporters are right though. Bottom line is she convinced more people to pull the lever for her than Bernie and now we all get to share in that fallout. Lucky us.
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Both common sense and every single report out of the Clinton camp dictate that she wasn't happy about the news coming out when it did.  As others have pointed out it seemed just as likely that the news would help Sanders than Clinton, and more importantly it took away a lot of the drama from her big moment last night. Nobody was trying to guide the narrative or play politics here. This was just reporters doing their jobs well, which is a good thing.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Both common sense and every single report out of the Clinton camp dictate that she wasn't happy about the news coming out when it did.  As others have pointed out it seemed just as likely that the news would help Sanders than Clinton, and more importantly it took away a lot of the drama from her big moment last night. Nobody was trying to guide the narrative or play politics here. This was just reporters doing their jobs well, which is a good thing.
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Who takes and tallies the Superdelegates commitments? The DNC must at some point, the AP can't just keep track of this stuff on a notepad. Hillary and the DNC have been practically symbiotic anyway, the only mistake appears that someone at the DNC couldn't contain their excitement.

 
Well, looks like she will be our next President.  No way does Trump beat her.

I hope she is a better person than I believe her to be.

I'm not happy about it, but it isn't the end of the world or even our country.  I'm just afraid another 4-8 years of our current trajectory will put us in a worse place in the long run economically, socially and internationally.  Yay, 'Merica. :mellow:

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Who takes and tallies the Superdelegates commitments? The DNC must at some point, the AP can't just keep track of this stuff on a notepad. Hillary and the DNC have been practically symbiotic anyway, the only mistake appears that someone at the DNC couldn't contain their excitement.
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Nope. This was explained at length on MSNBC. It was not anyone from the DNC who contacted AP or NBC, it was the other watt around. For months the reporters have been in contact with the Superdelegates. On Monday they asked them to confirm their earlier pledges and asked if anything could change their decision. When they got enough "Hillary" and "no" answers to make it overwhelming, they ran, correctly, with the story that Hillary had clinched. It was NOT what she wanted, whatever a conspiracy minded Sanders fan might choose to believe. 

 
Jayrod said:
Well, looks like she will be our next President.  No way does Trump beat her.

I hope she is a better person than I believe her to be.

I'm not happy about it, but it isn't the end of the world or even our country.  I'm just afraid another 4-8 years of our current trajectory will put us in a worse place in the long run economically, socially and internationally.  Yay, 'Merica. :mellow:
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Men marry women thinking they will never change and women marry men thinking they will.

We'll see.

 
timschochet said:
Nope. This was explained at length on MSNBC. It was not anyone from the DNC who contacted AP or NBC, it was the other watt around. For months the reporters have been in contact with the Superdelegates. On Monday they asked them to confirm their earlier pledges and asked if anything could change their decision. When they got enough "Hillary" and "no" answers to make it overwhelming, they ran, correctly, with the story that Hillary had clinched. It was NOT what she wanted, whatever a conspiracy minded Sanders fan might choose to believe. 
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So who are they?

 
Jayrod said:
Well, looks like she will be our next President.  No way does Trump beat her.

I hope she is a better person than I believe her to be.

I'm not happy about it, but it isn't the end of the world or even our country.  I'm just afraid another 4-8 years of our current trajectory will put us in a worse place in the long run economically, socially and internationally.  Yay, 'Merica. :mellow:
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There are millions of Americans who believe as you do, and while I disagree, it's a perfectly legitimate POV. 

And if Hillary does indeed win, what will baffle people for decades to come is why the majority of those of you who feel this way we're willing to select Donald Trump as her opponent. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Who takes and tallies the Superdelegates commitments? The DNC must at some point, the AP can't just keep track of this stuff on a notepad. Hillary and the DNC have been practically symbiotic anyway, the only mistake appears that someone at the DNC couldn't contain their excitement.
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I'm pretty sure AP had computers. I bet they even have Excel on them.

The DNC didn't announce it, and in fact they asked media not to count superdelegates.  The media did it anyway, as they should.  Reporting the news is their job.

Please stop with this nonsense. If you need a reason to do so, give this a read.

 
Walking Boot said:
I find it a little suspicious that the Hillary campaign apparently had the exact text of the AP announcement two days before it went out, so that they could send an email blast the second it went public. 

That smells of coordination. 

I also wonder why they were so quick to get the news out to subscribers so everyone could celebrate, if the timing was bad for them. 

Of course, the timing was perfect for the campaign. Believing they feel otherwise is just drinking the Kool-aid. 
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Link to the bolded?

I've seen that AP had the announcement ready a couple days ago, but obviously that's a common practice in the news business.

 
timschochet said:
There are millions of Americans who believe as you do, and while I disagree, it's a perfectly legitimate POV. 

And if Hillary does indeed win, what will baffle people for decades to come is why the majority of those of you who feel this way we're willing to select Donald Trump as her opponent. 
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I would probably be more disgusted by a Trump presidency as I'm almost certain I know who he is at this point.

I'm voting for Johnson.  Can't stomach voting for either of these two and there is no "lesser" among these two evils, just different kinds of evil.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Link to the bolded?

I've seen that AP had the announcement ready a couple days ago, but obviously that's a common practice in the news business.
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I'm not trying to prove anything here, but I will tee this up for discussion.

Stardust ‏@Cold_Stare


@DrJillStein Planned attack w/ @AP Graphic delivered tonight created days ago. Worked together to do this tonight.
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You have to watch the video to understand the technical point.

- The basic gist is that the metadata for the image graphic for the AP Headline indicates it was created on June 4th, ie Saturday.

So I guess yeah maybe the AP had the info on Saturday but I guess so did the Hillary campaign and the suggestion is the Hillary campaign had the announcement - and the AP headline - ready 2 days in advance.

I suppose it's possible that the Hillary campaign just used the AP's graphic from Saturday which they only just got on Monday anyway.

- eta - It's not that crazy to me that the AP had the delegate count update on Saturday but waited until the PR vote on Sunday to run their story.

 
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Do people bring this stuff up b/c they think Trump is a better candidate or to beat to absolute death the fact that Clinton isn't a good candidate?  Personally, I only care about the former.  These are the two candidates we've got.  

 
Walking Boot said:
In the media bias thread. The Hillary campaign sent a message to their email subscribers the moment AP tweeted the news. It contained a image hosted on the campaign server. The mockup screenshot of the tweet in the campaign email contains the exact wording and illustration as the AP tweet, but appears to be dated 6/4/16. Two days prior. 
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I'm not a tech guy, you're gonna have to walk me through this.  What exactly does the existence of this image prove?  Do you have a copy of the email you can show me?  

Assuming you're right, what you're saying is that the Associated Press and the Clinton campaign got together and decided that the downside of risking another scandal and lessening the dramatic impact of her Tuesday night celebration from her perspective, and risking the reputation of an almost universally respected 170 year old news organization from their perspective, was worth it in order to suppress a few more Sanders votes than Clinton votes* in a primary race that has already was effectively decided several weeks ago?

Is that an accurate statement of your position here?  If not let me know what I've gotten wrong.

*Whether this would actually happen is arguable at best.

 
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Walking Boot said:
In the media bias thread. The Hillary campaign sent a message to their email subscribers the moment AP tweeted the news. It contained a image hosted on the campaign server. The mockup screenshot of the tweet in the campaign email contains the exact wording and illustration as the AP tweet, but appears to be dated 6/4/16. Two days prior. 
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I just pulled up the e-mail that I got from the Hillary campaign after that announcement, and there is no date listed with the tweet.

 
NutterButter said:
Do people bring this stuff up b/c they think Trump is a better candidate or to beat to absolute death the fact that Clinton isn't a good candidate?  Personally, I only care about the former.  These are the two candidates we've got.  
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While I don't put a ton of credence into these sorts of "investigations" by the general public, one has to sit up and take notice that people do this with Hillary frequently.  Then they must ask themselves why.  Why do they go to these extra lengths with her?  It comes from conservatives.  It comes from progressives.  It doesn't come from her core group of followers...that's about it.  Everyone else is so critical of her.  It's going to make the next four years pretty entertaining in the mental gymnastics department.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm not trying to prove anything here, but I will tee this up for discussion.




You have to watch the video to understand the technical point.

- The basic gist is that the metadata for the image graphic for the AP Headline indicates it was created on June 4th, ie Saturday.

So I guess yeah maybe the AP had the info on Saturday but I guess so did the Hillary campaign and the suggestion is the Hillary campaign had the announcement - and the AP headline - ready 2 days in advance.

I suppose it's possible that the Hillary campaign just used the AP's graphic from Saturday which they only just got on Monday anyway.
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No, it's more likely that it's a big conspiracy.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm not trying to prove anything here, but I will tee this up for discussion.




You have to watch the video to understand the technical point.

- The basic gist is that the metadata for the image graphic for the AP Headline indicates it was created on June 4th, ie Saturday.

So I guess yeah maybe the AP had the info on Saturday but I guess so did the Hillary campaign and the suggestion is the Hillary campaign had the announcement - and the AP headline - ready 2 days in advance.

I suppose it's possible that the Hillary campaign just used the AP's graphic from Saturday which they only just got on Monday anyway.

- eta - It's not that crazy to me that the AP had the delegate count update on Saturday but waited until the PR vote on Sunday to run their story.
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I think this is the most likely scenario. 

 
The Commish said:
While I don't put a ton of credence into these sorts of "investigations" by the general public, one has to sit up and take notice that people do this with Hillary frequently.  Then they must ask themselves why.  Why do they go to these extra lengths with her?  It comes from conservatives.  It comes from progressives.  It doesn't come from her core group of followers...that's about it.  Everyone else is so critical of her.  It's going to make the next four years pretty entertaining in the mental gymnastics department.
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Its always entertaining.   

 
Walking Boot said:
It's not a real screenshot of an actual tweet, obviously, because it was created before hand. That's why the formatting doesn't match and there's no date. 

But right click on the image and check the URL it is served from. You'll see the image itself is named "secret win 160604" and is in a subdirectory named "20160605"
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Ok, gotcha. Only have gmail by phone, but I'll take your word for it.

 
Walking Boot said:
See saint's video. The graphic in the email is still on Hillary's campaign server. It's an HTML email, so it contains links and images hosted elsewhere. The graphic is of the text and picture that appear in the AP announcement tweet, but it is dated two days prior. 

All I'm saying is that it sniffs of coordination. And, I don't necessarily think the Hillary campaign is in the wrong. I don't think any politician could turn down a free assist from the media, which is why I first posted it in the media bias thread instead of here: AP is much more in the wrong. 

As far as what I think happened: AP calls over to Hillary's campaign and says "we think you have the delegates" on Friday or Saturday. Hillary's people say "don't publish that now, we'll get better press if you say that just before the nightly news on Monday, rather than over a weekend." AP agrees to that. Hillary's people then ask for a copy of the text so they can be ready to send out the email to supporters and fundraisers as soon as it goes live. AP agrees to that too. Hillary's people then take a day to craft the email and get it approved. I don't think they cared about the long term optics, I don't think it was coordinated at the highest level, I think some second tier person saw a chance to take initiative and ran with it, thinking Monday news would help the campaign more, in both getting eyes on it, and, yeah, maybe depressing Bernie voters. Again, second tier thinking, not Hillary herself writing the email and photoshopping the graphics. 
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Most youtube videos are blocked for me at work, sorry. Can you link to the email that's still on the server?

Even if I grant you that this benefited Clinton, which I disagree with (if they wanted to coordinate for her best interests it they would obviously wait until Tuesday night to make her victory speech more dramatic and to potentially blunt any good news for Sanders that came out of the results) ...

... Why would AP agree to the stuff you think they agreed to? There's no upside for them (why they would prefer Clinton to a more liberal and media-friendly candidate in the first place I have no idea) and significant downside risk.

Most conspiracy theories posit something that would least make some sort of sense for the participants.  This makes no sense for anyone.

 
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