Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (7 Viewers)

[honky kong]

This is an interesting perspective. I'm not Hillary fan but this raises some excellent points. Thanks for sharing. 

Yeah, I don't consider myself a fan either (like a lot of libs, her hawkishness scares me and there's the Wall Street thing) but it is some food for thought.

 

[jon_mx]

Yes, let's compare Hillary to O.J.

Yeah, no real reason to insult OJ like that.  

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

a cultural inventory of villainy rather than a plausible depiction of an actual person.

That's an outstanding turn of phrase.

 

[squistion]

Yeah, no real reason to insult OJ like that.  

Says the president of The George Zimmerman Fan Club.

 

[Don Quixote]

New Bloomberg poll shows Hillary stretching it to 12 points nationally. 

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Clinton up 4.5, 5.3, 6.2 over Trump depending on which polling aggregator you look at (RCP, HuffPost, TPM respectively).  100% predictable that once the Dem primaries were over she'd rebound.  Will probably extend just a bit more as Sanders officially endorses her and urges his supporters to vote for her. 

After that any movements will probably be mostly noise until the conventions (barring something exceptional).

Clinton 4/11 and Trump 11/4 right now.  Basically unchanged following Orlando.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-government-hackers-penetrated-dnc-stole-opposition-research-on-trump/2016/06/14/cf006cb4-316e-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html

WaPo reporting that these Russian hackers -- who Hillary claims did not hack her -- have been in the DNC system for a year and have had access to everything, including internal coms and opposition research.

Other reports are breaking that Russia likely leaked the trove of Clinton emails through a third party to Wikileaks (which is prepping them for release) -- as proof they were in that system too -- and can influence our political system.

I'm sure Putin loves the idea of embarrassing Obama.

Here's another fun thought - IIRC Hillary's server was originally a campaign server that got converted to Hillary's & the Foundation's use, when that happened it's possible the Russkies were already on it from the 2008 campaign. Yeay.

 

[MrPoo]

 Good on the Ruskies! Trump is using his power and influence around the world to show everyone why Clinton is NOT fit to be President. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Clinton up 4.5, 5.3, 6.2 over Trump depending on which polling aggregator you look at (RCP, HuffPost, TPM respectively).  100% predictable that once the Dem primaries were over she'd rebound.  Will probably extend just a bit more as Sanders officially endorses her and urges his supporters to vote for her. 

After that any movements will probably be mostly noise until the conventions (barring something exceptional).

Clinton 4/11 and Trump 11/4 right now.  Basically unchanged following Orlando.

Latest: Hillary up +12.

 

[Guest]

From what I understand, the defense of Hillary that she did not violate 18 USC 793f hinges on whether her private server is a "proper place of custody". If she can argue that her server was a proper place of custody, then she did not break that law.

However, the rest of the statute reads: "(1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer"

If the first part of the clause "permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust" has not been violated, the second (bolded) part will have been if the Russians indeed have them. Since this is an "or", I read it as "through gross negligence permits the same to be lost, stolen abstracted, or destroyed". They have definitely been stolen, so Hillary definitely broke the law. But I'm not a lawyer fully versed on the meaning of "or".

I will love it if, at some point, Hillary's defenders have to argue "it depends on what the meaning of or is." That would be a lovely twist.

I'll note that her IT backup company unknowingly had another copy of everything on her server in a second private data center -- and it was not discovered until Fall of last year.  I'd call this lost. Don't get me started on destroyed.   

No one in Hillary's camp knew these complete backup images existed.  Not even Platte River Associates, the private IT company knew that these backups and automatically synced to other servers owned by a company from whom they licensed software.  So the recklessness of the setup has already been borne out.  There were copies on a USB key, two private data centers (one undiscovered until that company came forward).  To use a line from the Queen herself, was it vital data flowing around the Internet unsecured, or was it foreign governments funneling everything to their headquarters, or hobbyist Romaniam hackers out for jollies -- at this point, what difference does it make?!!!!!

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Latest: Hillary up +12.

Better to look at the aggregators.  If she's really up that big it'll be picked up in future polling.

In general 12 seems awfully big though.

 

[Guest]

Yes, let's compare Hillary to O.J.

The comparison is to an ardent, mind numb supporter who thinks O.J. is innocent and anyone who looks at Cattle Futures and doesn't acknowledge it was a bribe.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Better to look at the aggregators.  If she's really up that big it'll be picked up in future polling.

In general 12 seems awfully big though.

Ok but I believe it.

Hillary is at 49%, think about that. That is amazing for June.

Trump is at ~60% unfavorable (other polls generally). Everyone knows him so he has nowhere to go. He never (except for NY?) moved out of the 35-45 range in the GOP until his opposition quit. He's doing worse than Romney and McCain among whites and he has to do considerably better. He's losing in Kansas and Utah.

 

[squistion]

Latest: Hillary up +12.

  

The most significant part of the poll was not the Clinton lead (which could evaporate after public reaction to the Orlando tragedy sets in) but the bolded below:

"A new Bloomberg Politics national poll shows Clinton leading Trump 49 percent to 37 percent among likely voters in November's election, with 55 percent of those polled saying they could never vote for the real-estate developer and TV personality."

55% saying they could never vote for Trump? Never? Now that doesn't mean they will vote for Hillary, but having 55% of likely voters being adamantly against Trump at this juncture may be something he simply can't overcome unless he can somehow rehabilitate his image.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I'd guess she'll be up 7 or so when the dust settles.  Seven would probably win the Senate for Dems, but if it's really 10 or 12 Republicans would be decimated nationally.

Holy smoke... just looked up Dem odds of winning House and saw that in one betting market Dems are now given a 21% chance to control both branches of Congress and the WH.  Senate control for Dems is in the 60-65% range.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

  

The most significant part of the poll was not the Clinton lead (which could evaporate after public reaction to the Orlando tragedy sets in) but the bolded below:

"A new Bloomberg Politics national poll shows Clinton leading Trump 49 percent to 37 percent among likely voters in November's election, with 55 percent of those polled saying they could never vote for the real-estate developer and TV personality."

55% saying they could never vote for Trump? Never? Now that doesn't mean they will vote for Hillary, but having 55% of likely voters being adamantly against Trump at this juncture may be something he simply can't overcome unless he can somehow rehabilitate his image.

That is astounding, I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in any poll.

 

[The Commish]

 as predicted MONTHS AND MONTHS ago...though I didn't think we were suppose to be looking at polls or looking at polls until after Bernie is out of the race or.....sorry, I lose track of all the rules you guys go by  

 

[Zegras11]

Loving Hillary's new tone when she talks- calm and commanding, doesn't raise her voice. Some very smart people are advising her...

Because she's too stupid to do it on her own.  Which of course, makes it phony which all of us can see through except for a few of you.

 

[cstu]

  

The most significant part of the poll was not the Clinton lead (which could evaporate after public reaction to the Orlando tragedy sets in) but the bolded below:

"A new Bloomberg Politics national poll shows Clinton leading Trump 49 percent to 37 percent among likely voters in November's election, with 55 percent of those polled saying they could never vote for the real-estate developer and TV personality."

55% saying they could never vote for Trump? Never? Now that doesn't mean they will vote for Hillary, but having 55% of likely voters being adamantly against Trump at this juncture may be something he simply can't overcome unless he can somehow rehabilitate his image.

That makes me feel a little better.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

A Clinton campaign official said there was no evidence the campaign's information systems had been hacked.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-election-hack-idUKKCN0Z025P

- Ya really gotta love `em.

 

[squistion]

Loving Hillary's new tone when she talks- calm and commanding, doesn't raise her voice. Some very smart people are advising her...

Her campaign has been aware of this for months, actually. Problem is that women's voices are not naturally as resonant as men's so they don't carry as far (even with amplification) so to be heard in a large venue, Hillary had to raise her voice sometimes to a screaming level.

Now as you noted, she isn't currently doing that, which is fine for the TV audience. However, as was noted by Joan Walsh (who was at a recent campaign event) Hillary could not be heard by those in the back of the hall - so that is the downside, that those attending her events in person may not all be able to hear her.

 

[cstu]

Her campaign has been aware of this for months, actually. Problem is that women's voices are not naturally as resonant as men's so they don't carry as far (even with amplification) so to be heard in a large venue, Hillary had to raise her voice sometimes to a screaming level.

Now as you noted, she isn't currently doing that, which is fine for the TV audience. However, as was noted by Joan Walsh (who was at a recent campaign event) Hillary could not be heard by those in the back of the hall - so that is the downside, that those attending her events in person may not all be able to hear her.

Not sure if that's really a downside but she can't set up speakers at the back of hall?

 

[Guest]

Her campaign has been aware of this for months, actually. Problem is that women's voices are not naturally as resonant as men's so they don't carry as far (even with amplification) so to be heard in a large venue, Hillary had to raise her voice sometimes to a screaming level.

Now as you noted, she isn't currently doing that, which is fine for the TV audience. However, as was noted by Joan Walsh (who was at a recent campaign event) Hillary could not be heard by those in the back of the hall - so that is the downside, that those attending her events in person may not all be able to hear her.

If after three major campaigns, she can't figure out how her A/V setup, I'm thrilled to see how she'll administer policy.  

 

[pettifogger]

I will not be surprised when we find out at some point that Julian Assange and Wikileaks have all the top secret cables that Bradley Manning let them get into, plus all the emails unearthed in FOIA requests from Judicial Watch that they have now "published" online, but nothing actually coming from any hacking of the dreaded private server.   

 

[Guest]

I will not be surprised when we find out at some point that Julian Assange and Wikileaks have all the top secret cables that Bradley Manning let them get into, plus all the emails unearthed in FOIA requests from Judicial Watch that they have now "published" online, but nothing actually coming from any hacking of the dreaded private server.   

As I'm reading, I see nothing at all that they have provided that came from special access -- so, yeah, they better step up their game.  If they're just indexing publicly available content with commentary, there's nothing to see.  

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

"I feel like this presidential election is essentially a battle between the article and the comments section." -- Laurent Dubois

 

[dparker713]

It starts with an argument that Politifact states she isn't dishonest.  Wrong.  They found she isn't as dishonest as others, but she still lies (going by memory) something like 40% of the time.  She's also far more insulated by a web of cronies and dodgy connections 

-She has taken at least one bribe (Cattle Futures)

- She was caught lying about taking sniper fire in Bosnia 

-She lied about every detail of the email

-She has stone walled and failed to cooperate with investigators, including her own department - and her staff has clearly lied under oath with a flurry of "I don't recalls," and she will do the same 

-A secret serviceman, under oath, testified that her Chief of Staff removed "two handfuls" of files from Vince Foster's office the night he died

-Hillary and her CoS have lied by saying nothing was removed (I believe the SS man)

-She has been accused (with good reason) of destroying evidence three times - including with the deletion of her "personal" emails, at least some of which have already proven to be work related 

The case for her being fundamentally dishonest is clear.  She represents an establishment that most don't trust and want to move past.

That all might be more easily forgivable if she had a good record of accomplishments.  This article talks about how shocked and surprising people are at the concept that she's not a liar.  (She is.).

What I think is really shocking is how surprised people are when they discover she failed more than succeeded at every position she ever had (she did).

Reading is Fundamental.  It's never too late to learn.

 

[dparker713]

Agreed...my vote goes towards the goal of keeping this idiot out of office.....as I said at the very beginning of this whole "discussion"

Not voting for him only prevents a positive contribution to his attempt to secure the election.  The only way to negatively effect his chances are to vote for the candidate most likely to accumulate more votes than him.

 

[Trey]

Thank you DC!

 

[MaxThreshold]

Reading is Fundamental.  It's never too late to learn.

Still waiting for you to make the leap.  Good luck!

 

[dparker713]

Still waiting for you to make the leap.  Good luck!

Ahh.  The you're rubber and I'm glue defense.  Rarely seen used by a third party.  Quite the rhetorical gambit.  

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

For those of you still wondering (or in denial), the FBI investigation is a criminal investigation

A former information technology aide to Hillary Clinton received immunity from the Justice Department in connection with a criminal investigation, a federal judge confirmed Tuesday.

 

[squistion]

For those of you still wondering (or in denial), the FBI investigation is a criminal investigation

What? It is not a civil matter?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Ahh.  The you're rubber and I'm glue defense.  Rarely seen used by a third party.  Quite the rhetorical gambit.  

Some say there exists a gene for exemplary online forum jousting.

I think I have it.

 

[timschochet]

Wow, Obama just destroyed Trump today. And he was pissed too. 

New Bloomberg Poll:

Hillary 49%

Trump 37%

Johnson 9% 

 

[MaxThreshold]

What? It is not a civil matter?

OH, so now you're just going to play stupid?  You and your cronies have been arguing forever that it's just a "security review" but now you're implying that you knew it was a criminal investigation the entire time?

Well, I suppose ANY progress with you is still progress.  We'll take what we can get.

 

[timschochet]

Hillary: "I believe Americans are capable of protecting the Second Amendment while at the same time keeping guns out of the wrong hands." 

 

[MaxThreshold]

Hillary: "I believe Americans are capable of protecting the Second Amendment while at the same time keeping guns out of the wrong hands." 

That would be fantastic if we could, y'know, trust what she says.  But we can't and as far as most people are concerned she's saying this only because it's what you want to hear and what she thinks will get her to the Oval Office.

Next week it will most likely be something completely opposite.

 

[timschochet]

That would be fantastic if we could, y'know, trust what she says.  But we can't and as far as most people are concerned she's saying this only because it's what you want to hear.

Next week it will most likely be something completely opposite.

Actually, the polls suggest that most people agree with her, especially in contrast to Donald Trump on this issue. And this is especially true among suburban women who are key to this election. 

 

[MaxThreshold]

Actually, the polls suggest that most people agree with her, especially in contrast to Donald Trump on this issue. And this is especially true among suburban women who are key to this election. 

The polls don't suggest that at all.  However, highest unfavorably ratings EVER, do.  Besides, anyone with eyes and ears can see and hear right thru all that nonsense.

 

[The Commish]

Not voting for him only prevents a positive contribution to his attempt to secure the election.  The only way to negatively effect his chances are to vote for the candidate most likely to accumulate more votes than him.

yeah, no

 

[squistion]

OH, so now you're just going to play stupid?  You and your cronies have been arguing forever that it's just a "security review" but now you're implying that you knew it was a criminal investigation the entire time?

Well, I suppose ANY progress with you is still progress.  We'll take what we can get.

Well, duh, the FBI only looks into criminal matters.

 

[The Commish]

Hillary: "I believe Americans are capable of protecting the Second Amendment while at the same time keeping guns out of the wrong hands." 

Nice platitude....devil's always in the details.

 

[Boston]

Actually, the polls suggest that most people agree with her, especially in contrast to Donald Trump on this issue. And this is especially true among suburban women who are key to this election. 

Suburban women like Juanita Broderrick and Kathleen Wiley and Gennifer Flowers and...

 

[MaxThreshold]

Well, duh, the FBI only looks into criminal matters.

RIGHT?

 

[Sconch]

That would be fantastic if we could, y'know, trust what she says.  But we can't and as far as most people are concerned she's saying this only because it's what you want to hear and what she thinks will get her to the Oval Office.

Next week it will most likely be something completely opposite.

Well she is a politician.  

Can you name a one on either side that you trust what they say the majority of the time?

 

[The Commish]

That would be fantastic if we could, y'know, trust what she says.  But we can't and as far as most people are concerned she's saying this only because it's what you want to hear.

Next week it will most likely be something completely opposite.

Actually, the polls suggest that most people agree with her, especially in contrast to Donald Trump on this issue. And this is especially true among suburban women who are key to this election. 

Max's point wasn't that they don't agree with her.  It's that America's not sure they can trust her when she says it....two completely different things.  I've noticed this a lot out of you yesterday and today.

 

[The Commish]

Well she is a politician.  

Can you name a one on either side that you trust what they say the majority of the time?

yes

 

[Sconch]

yes

Oh do tell!

 

[MaxThreshold]

Well she is a politician.  

Can you name a one on either side that you trust what they say the majority of the time?

Two wrong don't make a right now, do they?

Besides, we always talk of wanting our politicians to be better but now you're just ready to throw that out the window because "everyone does it"?  Also, to be fair, Hillary is a lot more slimy and dishonest more so than the average politician.