cstu
Footballguy
There were already boots on the ground when JFK was elected, however LBJ turned it into a real war.
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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Vietnam troop levels by year:
- 1960 - 760
- 1961 - 900
- 1962 - 11,300
- 1963 - 16,300
I don't absolve Ike but JFK's name is on this.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, it would take an historically bad Republican Presidential candidate, an obstructionist Congress with an approval rating of 12%, and a massive change in public perception of outgroups embraced by the Dems like racial minorities and homosexuals in for the Dems to make significant enough gains to start the path of ever really equalizing the House again.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
We've been waiting for the light bulb to go off for you for years. Let us know when it happens.
The Commish
Footballguy
Shouldn't ask others to do things you aren't willing to do yourself. I really wish we still had sigs....been some doozies lately. Is there a competition going on at :e: or something?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Eight years is a long time. With her general views on foreign policy, I'd be pretty shocked if we don't have fresh boots on the ground somewhere before she leaves office.
cstu
Footballguy
Technically they were 'military advisors'. My argument is Democrats back then had to worry about being soft on communism and they had far less technology to achieve their military goals without boots on the ground than we do today. For example, if they had drones back then I don't think we lose all of those soldiers in the Korean and Vietnam wars.
cstu
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Well the 1962 JFK escalation to 11,600 troops took it out of the military advisory capacity, that was war. That happened under him.
For sake of comparison we have 5000+ soldiers in Iraq right now and somewhere around that 500-900 special forces troops in Syria right now. Hillary will be inheriting on the ground fighting in Afghanistan and Syria (yes), 5K+ warfare support soldiers in Iraq, and air war campaigns in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and (occasionally) Somalia.
As for technology, we were very well advanced over the Koreans and Vietnamese too, but you can't take and hold land with anything but ground troops, that has been the case since 10,000 BC.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
The crowd in here have moved from "she'll never win the nomination!" to "she'll never be elected!" to "she's going to be a horrible President!"
I suppose that's progress.
I suppose that's progress.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
dparker713
Footballguy
DNC was completely against Obama and he won. Of course he was a much better candidate than Bernie.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's more likely his definition of "crowd", but I'm not ruling your theory out either.
The Commish
Footballguy
Your polls are telling you that. Of course these numbers can go nowhere but up at this point. When Trump is the comparison bar, there is really no other direction, but you'll be able toDon't forget, Tim, that they still keep telling us that no one likes her.
about her numbers improving, so there's that.
The Commish
Footballguy
Oh....and I await your "link to a poll where she has 0% favorability" shtick. It's a crowd favorite 
dparker713
Footballguy
Take a look at Trump's numbers. She's certainly no where near the floor.Your polls are telling you that. Of course these numbers can go nowhere but up at this point. When Trump is the comparison bar, there is really no other direction, but you'll be able to
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
And that's without Trump going even further off the rails or being repudiated at the convention.
The Commish
Footballguy
Well, I guess technically, you're right. They COULD go down, but damn...against Trump? That'd be a bitter pill for the Hillary lovers to swallow. Even I am not that down on the woman.Take a look at Trump's numbers. She's certainly no where near the floor.Your polls are telling you that. Of course these numbers can go nowhere but up at this point. When Trump is the comparison bar, there is really no other direction, but you'll be able to
cstu
Footballguy
They were sent there as military advisors and Kennedy ordered 1,000 to be withdrawn in 1963, but granted it did escalate the war.
All you wrote about our troops levels is true, but what would change to require much higher troops levels in those countries?
ISIS is being defeated with our air support and local forces on the ground, so what we're doing is working. In fact, Iraqi forces just took back Falluja.
bueno
In a class by himself
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
She was expected to win 2014-15, she's expected to win now.Don't forget, Tim, that they still keep telling us that no one likes her.
She wasn't well liked 2014-15, she is less liked now.
Only things that could have changed this were Biden jumping in the race, Sanders undercutting her character in the fall debates, and Sanders winning NV & SC. Oh and a decent, likeable, experienced GOP opponent.
HTH.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The numbers increased 11,000 in 1962 and 5,000 in 1963, and they piled in another 7K in 1964 which was likely planned in 1963, that isn't withdrawing 1,000 at all.
It may be working, I'm just talking about what to expect from Hillary. The Vietnam issue is apt because she has described herself as a Scoop Jackson Democrat. Personally I'm not sure what the right thing is now, I'm just observing what is going on. I do think this continued war 2009-16 has had costs for us, not just money but our military has been badly drained.
And I am happy for Iraq, I am pulling for them, but at the same time the Taliban has its greatest reach since 2001.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't expect the Dems to win the House. But they won't block Hillary's domestic agenda completely. That NEVER happens to a new President, and it won't this time. She'll get her infrastructure plan, because many Republicans want it. As to whether or not she'll get immigration reform and/or a climate change package, those are more open questions.
But I wouldn't be surprised if there was a backlash against the gridlock that has dominated the last 16 years, especially if Trump loses very badly.
But I wouldn't be surprised if there was a backlash against the gridlock that has dominated the last 16 years, especially if Trump loses very badly.
I've been pretty consistent that she's going to win and she's a terrible person unworthy of the office.
dparker713
Footballguy
She was at 58% likability in 2014. She was in the 60s for most of her time as Secretary.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I was thinking favorability, if there's a difference, sorry for the mistake. Hillary is currently -19 Fav/Unfav.
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BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
dparker713
Footballguy
It was favorability. I just wrote the wrong thing. 58% favorable in 2014. Her low watermark seems to have been 38% way back when Bill was first running in the Democratic primaries and she's been as high as 66%.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I was going to follow up and agree with you.
Seemed she was ok until the first week of March 2015, when the email story broke.
cstu
Footballguy
Interesting that to Democrats Hillary is more favorable than Bernie (67% to 60%).
ETA: Only 17% of Republicans approve of how Obama is handling the economy, yet 30% think the economy is fairly good to very good. 90% say the economy is staying the same or getting worse.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
cobalt_27
Footballguy
As per usual, disingenuous and not even remotely accurate. But, I suspect this makes you feel better if you're scoring at home and want to feel better about your pissing all over this board.
The Commish
Footballguy
Bernie's an outsider...why would this shock any of us? You can see by this thread and the Bernie thread, it wasn't much appreciated by the establishment types that he pulled her left. Even though Bernie was the closest thing the Dems had to their declared platform.
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
He manages a debate like its a Choose Your Own Adventure children's book where he just makes #### up as he goes. To the extent that the only reason to respond to Tim at this point is to provide a little board hygiene and call him out on his bull####; it's most certainly not to engage in any meaningful discussion. He is equipped with neither the capacity nor willingness to look beyond his own imagination when putting forth an argument or opinion.
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squistion
Footballguy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-democratic-party_us_57645313e4b015db1bc95fd3
Hillary Clinton Is On A Mission To Rebuild The Democratic Party
A 50-state strategy has been tried before. Her staff think they can do it right this time.
Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign will maintain staff in all 50 states during the general election with an eye toward overwhelming Republicans in the fall and rebuilding the Democratic Party’s infrastructure thereafter.
The strategy, described to The Huffington Post by Clinton campaign aides, is a continuation of the Ramp Up Grassroots Organizing program that the campaign applied to the Democratic primary. But unlike that approach — which had the immediate objective of competing with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in each state contest — the current one carries risk.
Many states in which Clinton will be employing staff and spending resources will almost assuredly vote against her anyway. She could end up wasting money that is needed to win swing states. But her staffers say the investment is well worth it.
“This is something that needs to happen every presidential cycle. It needs to be sustained. And I think if we continue to do that, we will help build the party long-term,” said Marlon Marshall, the Clinton team’s director of state campaigns and political engagement. “I truly believe we have a historic candidacy with Secretary Clinton, and we can use this opportunity to bring more people into the party.” [...]
Hillary Clinton Is On A Mission To Rebuild The Democratic Party
A 50-state strategy has been tried before. Her staff think they can do it right this time.
Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign will maintain staff in all 50 states during the general election with an eye toward overwhelming Republicans in the fall and rebuilding the Democratic Party’s infrastructure thereafter.
The strategy, described to The Huffington Post by Clinton campaign aides, is a continuation of the Ramp Up Grassroots Organizing program that the campaign applied to the Democratic primary. But unlike that approach — which had the immediate objective of competing with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in each state contest — the current one carries risk.
Many states in which Clinton will be employing staff and spending resources will almost assuredly vote against her anyway. She could end up wasting money that is needed to win swing states. But her staffers say the investment is well worth it.
“This is something that needs to happen every presidential cycle. It needs to be sustained. And I think if we continue to do that, we will help build the party long-term,” said Marlon Marshall, the Clinton team’s director of state campaigns and political engagement. “I truly believe we have a historic candidacy with Secretary Clinton, and we can use this opportunity to bring more people into the party.” [...]
dparker713
Footballguy
Normally, maybe. But at this point Trump is hoping to raise maybe 400 million. The estimates for her campaign are 1.5-2 billion. That plus his really low numbers give her an opportunity that most campaigns can't afford.
G
Guest
Guest
Our side: She seems like she's lying became, it's clear she's lying, then she's been caught red handed lying and finally she just can't stop lying - even about lying.
Your side: She's a bastion of truth beyond reproach, you'll see she's innocent, yeah but she's never been imprisoned to she's flawed but it'll somehow be different when she's elected and has even more power.
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Your ability to mischaracterize groups of people with broad brush paint strokes which is not even remotely close is unsurpassed. When people do it against minority groups it is called bigotry. People here don't like it any better.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Not sure why she would even want to "rebuild" the Democratic party. It just gave her the nomination.What's she going to do - promise to root out corruption?
squistion
Footballguy
This was explained in the article at the link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-democratic-party_us_57645313e4b015db1bc95fd3
“I think it is important to lay a foundation for the future,” said Marshall, who has worked in the Obama administration and pushed Dean’s 50-state strategy as an organizing staff member in Kansas in 2005. “State House members are going to be your next folks running for Congress or running for governor, and one of them may be your next president of the United States.”
Clinton’s approach is also born from a belief that institutions, more than personalities, form the basis for political progress — that even the most moving rhetoric runs up against the procedural rules of the House and Senate.
“The 50-state strategy worked. It gave us the majorities in the House and the Senate, and then it was abandoned because Obama chose to go with OFA [Organizing For Action], which did not work, and the DNC scaled way back on it,” Dean, a supporter of and consultant to Clinton’s campaign, told HuffPost. “But I’m very pleased it is going to be rebuilt. I think they totally get that her legacy depends on having a Democratic Congress and that she has to start now.”
timschochet
Footballguy
I'm sorry. Saints tells me I don't read very well, I can live with that. Other posters say my comments were too general, I can live with that. Cobalt says I am incapable of having a rational discussion (at the same time that he spends time here responding to people who are certain that Hillary is guilty of a string of murders) I can live with that!
But jon mx, who incidentally keeps finding excuses not to pay his debts, accuses me of treating those I disagree with in here in the same way that bigots treat minorities??? I don't know. That's tough to take.
I am sorry, but I generally wait until a game is over before paying on the wager. When Hillary is the nominee, then you get paid. Not wih 5 minutes to go in the 4th.I'm sorry. Saints tells me I don't read very well, I can live with that. Other posters say my comments were too general, I can live with that. Cobalt says I am incapable of having a rational discussion (at the same time that he spends time here responding to people who are certain that Hillary is guilty of a string of murders) I can live with that!
But jon mx, who incidentally keeps finding excuses not to pay his debts, accuses me of treating those I disagree with in here in the same way that bigots treat minorities??? I don't know. That's tough to take.
timschochet
Footballguy
Except that wasn't the wager. The wager was that Obama wouldn't endorse anyone before the race was decided. The race was decided and Obama endorsed Hillary. At that point the bet is won. If Hillary died in a car crash tomorrow, you would still have lost this bet already.
The Commish
Footballguy
Not sure Hillary, or her camp understands what a "grassroots campaign" is unless she's referring to the company Grassroots Campaigns
The Commish
Footballguy
Keystone Cop betting (TM)
timschochet
Footballguy
Commish you're far from a stupid guy. Why do you want to upend the status quo in this country so much? That seems to be the central theme in all of your political posts. Why is the status quo so bad? Hasnt it served us well since at least World War II?
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