Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (4 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ham said Bernie donors should sue Hillary for fraud. Under your theory Hillary is the last person they should be suing - she assured them the whole time she wouldn't be charged, and that's what happened.

Apparently almost everything else she said was a lie though. I say 'almost' just to save some room, but I'm not sure what factual claim she has been vindicated on.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

One of the biggest political #### ups ever.  Ranks right up their with Dukakis and the tank photo and Howard Dean's screeching.

Dan Quayle comparing himself to JFK. 

 

[Slapdash]

Basically this, aside from the "deleted emails" part that I personally found persuasive.  

I do agree with Comey though that the bar for indicting the nominee of a major party ought to be pretty high. If the facts of this case didn't meet that bar, so be it.  Doesn't change my opinion of Hillary.

I don't think he ever said that, did he? If so, that's incredibly alarming. Applying different legal standards based on someone's social or political status is pretty much the opposite of everything America is supposed to be based on.

He didn't state that he wasn't doing it because Clinton is head of a major party.  He did spend a few paragraphs incredibly defending the Independence of the review.

 

[otello]

Yes, I thought that was a bit of an odd statement by him. Statements about what a reasonable prosecutor might do should probably be left to a prosecutor, not an FBI official. Especially because prosecutorial discretion is complicated, and reasonable people will disagree on how it should be applied. Look at the controversy surrounding Obama's immigration policy. Even peaceful, hardworking, non-rapey illegal immigrants have violated the law and could legally be deported. Should we deport all of them that we can find? College kids smoke pot in their dorms. If they get caught, should we always press charges? If we don't, some will argue that prosecutors are rewriting laws rather than enforcing them as they were enacted by the legislature. If we do, some will argue that we're subverting the spirit of legal pragmatism by overreacting to ticky-tack offenses.

In this case, there's a statute that makes gross negligence a violation. According to Comey, that statute has generally been treated a bit like criminal laws against pot-smoking (in states that treat that leniently) -- charges aren't brought without the presence of other factors, and those other factors weren't present in this case.

But should a prosecutor nonetheless bring charges in a case with a profile this high? The FBI can give its reasons for recommending that no charges be brought. But to say that no reasonable prosecutor would disagree with that recommendation seems like an overstep, IMO.

I would say it is more than odd.  How many times have you seen an FBI agent argue against an indictment because there is no evidence of intent in such a public manner?  How often have you seen or heard of it in private interactions between the investigator and prosecutor?  If this issue is being discussed, it's usually the prosecutor bringing it up, because it's the prosecutor's call.  The only way he could say something like that is with the blessing of the ag.  There was clearly enough evidence to indict.  There are many reasonable prosecutors who would have brought this case in a heartbeat, but they were never given the chance, especially since the head of the criminal investigative arm of the government says there is no case.

 

[Blick]

I've never had much respect for Hilary. So, this doesn't change much for me.  However, I did lose a lot of respect for Obama today. 

 

[Slapdash]

I believe JW misuses both the FOIA and the legal system as a means to weaken the Democratic Party. Their purpose is to embarrass and smear. If there is an equivalent on the liberal side I'm unaware of it. 

Exposing information about public officials through FOIA isn't a misuse; it is the purpose of it.

 

[squistion]

Donald Trump channels Mr. Ham:

ABC NewsVerified account ‏@ABC 4m4 minutes ago

Donald Trump suggests Hillary Clinton bribed attorney general over email scandal. http://abcn.ws/29MPjvp

 

[Boston]

I believe JW misuses both the FOIA and the legal system as a means to weaken the Democratic Party. Their purpose is to embarrass and smear. If there is an equivalent on the liberal side I'm unaware of it. 

ABC, CBS, NBC, The New York Times and the rest of the MSM...

 

[[scooter]]

That's the odd part - it reads like a DOJ statement plopped down at the end of his summary.

Yes, I thought that was a bit of an odd statement by him. Statements about what a reasonable prosecutor might do should probably be left to a prosecutor, not an FBI official. Especially because prosecutorial discretion is complicated, and reasonable people will disagree on how it should be applied. Look at the controversy surrounding Obama's immigration policy. Even peaceful, hardworking, non-rapey illegal immigrants have violated the law and could legally be deported. Should we deport all of them that we can find? College kids smoke pot in their dorms. If they get caught, should we always press charges? If we don't, some will argue that prosecutors are rewriting laws rather than enforcing them as they were enacted by the legislature. If we do, some will argue that we're subverting the spirit of legal pragmatism by overreacting to ticky-tack offenses.

In this case, there's a statute that makes gross negligence a violation. According to Comey, that statute has generally been treated a bit like criminal laws against pot-smoking (in states that treat that leniently) -- charges aren't brought without the presence of other factors, and those other factors weren't present in this case.

But should a prosecutor nonetheless bring charges in a case with a profile this high? The FBI can give its reasons for recommending that no charges be brought. But to say that no reasonable prosecutor would disagree with that recommendation seems like an overstep, IMO.

Comey is a former U.S. Attorney and Deputy Attorney General. He probably has pretty good insight on what a "reasonable prosecutor" might do.

 

[timschochet]

Rich, to answer your question (and Slapdash's point, and Boston's) I don't have a suggested alternative to the FOIA. That wasn't my point. My point is that Judicial Watch, IMO, abuses the FOIA and the legal system. I think they're slimy. 

That doesn't make attempting to obstruct the FOIA correct behavior. 

 

[Politician Spock]

How is the FOIA used without abuse?

(I'm going to regret asking that later.)

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

When a person is caught red handed by the FBI and set free, some folks are going to 

How does this argument support the claim that Bernie supporters should sue for refunds?  If all you are saying is that when people get upset they don't think straight then sure.

 

[Slapdash]

So? He's still the head of the FBI. He used to be a lawyer, now he's a cop.

And he used to work in the W's DOJ, right?

I'm sure he has quite a bit of work experience, but ultimately he was hired and can be fired by Obama.  You don't think a person's boss has any influence on their decisions?

No, you have no idea what you are talking about.  He has a 10-year term, the president has no authority to fire him, it would have to go to Congress.

That isn't how politics in a large, bureaucratic organizations like the US government works at all

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

"Dammit!" - Johnson and Weld

 

[Trey]

Congressmen already talking about potentially calling Comey to testify. Classic GOP overplaying their hand. 

Oh and Trump complimenting Saddam Hussein for how he dealt with terrorism will be a nice diversion in the news cycle as well 

 

[timschochet]

How is the FOIA used without abuse?

(I'm going to regret asking that later.)

If this question is meant for me, I have no idea. 

 

[Slapdash]

Rich, to answer your question (and Slapdash's point, and Boston's) I don't have a suggested alternative to the FOIA. That wasn't my point. My point is that Judicial Watch, IMO, abuses the FOIA and the legal system. I think they're slimy. 

That doesn't make attempting to obstruct the FOIA correct behavior. 

HOW does it abuse FOIA?  HOW is freeing information about the workings of government an abuse of the act that frees that information.  Spell it out.

 

[timschochet]

HOW does it abuse FOIA?  HOW is freeing information about the workings of government an abuse of the act that frees that information.  Spell it out.

They take information out of context and release it to the press in an attempt to embarrass and smear their political enemies (anybody in the Democratic party.) Then they tie up the courts going after classified information in a further attempt to embarrass Democratic administrations. They've had a long history of doing this; their performance after the death of Vince Foster was particularly shameful IMO. 

 

[Slapdash]

HOW does it abuse FOIA?  HOW is freeing information about the workings of government an abuse of the act that frees that information.  Spell it out.

They take information out of context and release it to the press in an attempt to embarrass and smear their political enemies (anybody in the Democratic party.) Then they tie up the courts going after classified information in a further attempt to embarrass Democratic administrations. They've had a long history of doing this; their performance after the death of Vince Foster was particularly shameful IMO. 

So freeing information is an abuse if they use it to support political goals contrary to yours.  Got it.

 

[Politician Spock]

If this question is meant for me, I have no idea. 

Admitting it is the first step.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

They take information out of context and release it to the press in an attempt to embarrass and smear their political enemies (anybody in the Democratic party.) Then they tie up the courts going after classified information in a further attempt to embarrass Democratic administrations. They've had a long history of doing this; their performance after the death of Vince Foster was particularly shameful IMO. 

 

[Boston]

So I gotta believe the fact the Director of the FBI has called her "careless" should hurt the narrative (which I have never bought) that Hillary is qualified to run the country...not too often that someone gets a promotion when the word careless is attached to their prior position... 

 

[timschochet]

Obama was fired up today. 

"She was a great Secretary of State!" 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Obama was fired up today. 

No kidding. All those times I said he'd attack Trump with enthusiasm but only support her lightly, I couldn't have been more wronger. 

 

[ShamrockPride]

Yeah I know, I keep getting this. But I didn't buy into the whole "Hillary is a corrupt and dishonest person" meme. Mostly I still don't, though today has been very disappointing. 

Do you have such a peachy view of all politicians or is she the only one that gets...ahem...preferential treatment?

 

[timschochet]

Do you have such a peachy view of all politicians or is she the only one that gets...ahem...preferential treatment?

I generally don't buy into the public distrust of politicians. 

 

[Politician Spock]

I generally don't buy into the public distrust of politicians. 

You also trusted the NSA. 

 

[IC FBGCav]

Do you have such a peachy view of all politicians or is she the only one that gets...ahem...preferential treatment?

I would guess he is a hardcore Hildo.

 

[squistion]

Jamelle BouieVerified account ‏@jbouie 44m44 minutes ago

Clinton's great asset is that Trump hogs the newscycle with stuff like this.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/05/donald_trump_says_saddam_hussein_was_a_bad_guy_but.html

 

[GroveDiesel]

Could someone who actually understands the law and, more generally, WTF they're talking about comment on how Trump's accusation that Clinton bribed Lynch and/or Comey does or doesn't qualify as libel?

Clinton is a public figure. As such, she would have to prove that what Trump said was a lie, but that he knew for a fact that it was a lie. That would require all sorts of proof on her part including detailed descriptions of all conversations between Bill or anyone in her camp and the DOJ under oath and questioned by Trump's lawyer.

What do you think are the odds of that happening?

 

[BeaverCleaver]

I generally don't buy into the public distrust of politicians. 

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Just read the full quote and he added some good weasel words in the intro too.

"What I heard on TV, etc"

 

[Guest]

Donald Trump channels Mr. Ham:

ABC NewsVerified account ‏@ABC 4m4 minutes ago

Donald Trump suggests Hillary Clinton bribed attorney general over email scandal. http://abcn.ws/29MPjvp

You've just libeled me.   

 

[badmojo1006]

OFFS. Ryan: GOP will hold hearings on Clinton probe

Seriously, do they not know when to quit??? 

 

[GroveDiesel]

It really is incredible that today was a perfect demonstration of how awful both candidates are. One was called extremely careless with State secrets and had the head of the FBI essentially concede that she broke the law but say that the law is rarely enforced in cases like this. 

And instead of her opponent taking this gift and using it to beat her over the head as proof that she's incompetent and reckless and wouldn't even be qualified to view classified info anymore if she were in any other position than the Presidency, he goes out in loony tunes world and accuses everyone involved of corruption. And then praises Saddam Hussein for good measure.

it's unreal that one of these clowns will be our next President.

 

[squistion]

You've just libeled me.   

Truth is an affirmative defense to any claim of libel.

 

[Politician Spock]

OFFS. Ryan: GOP will hold hearings on Clinton probe

Seriously, do they not know when to quit??? 

I wish Hillary would quit. 

 

[cobalt_27]

It really is incredible that today was a perfect demonstration of how awful both candidates are. One was called extremely careless with State secrets and had the head of the FBI essentially concede that she broke the law but say that the law is rarely enforced in cases like this. 

And instead of her opponent taking this gift and using it to beat her over the head as proof that she's incompetent and reckless and wouldn't even be qualified to view classified info anymore if she were in any other position than the Presidency, he goes out in loony tunes world and accuses everyone involved of corruption. And then praises Saddam Hussein for good measure.

it's unreal that one of these clowns will be our next President.

About sums it up.

 

[badmojo1006]

I wish Hillary would quit. 

Oh grow up

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

OFFS. Ryan: GOP will hold hearings on Clinton probe

Seriously, do they not know when to quit??? 

Totally unpredictable when the DNC teed up Hillary with just Bernie to beat, right? Couldn't see it coming? Destination Dysfunctionville, straight ahead.

 

[Politician Spock]

Oh grow up

Thanks Bill. 

 

[Blick]

It really is incredible that today was a perfect demonstration of how awful both candidates are. One was called extremely careless with State secrets and had the head of the FBI essentially concede that she broke the law but say that the law is rarely enforced in cases like this. 

And instead of her opponent taking this gift and using it to beat her over the head as proof that she's incompetent and reckless and wouldn't even be qualified to view classified info anymore if she were in any other position than the Presidency, he goes out in loony tunes world and accuses everyone involved of corruption. And then praises Saddam Hussein for good measure.

it's unreal that one of these clowns will be our next President.

I don't know why this post made me laugh. 

 

[timschochet]

Oh grow up

You're my favorite Spock! 

 

[Sand]

They take information out of context and release it to the press in an attempt to embarrass and smear their political enemies (anybody in the Democratic party.) Then they tie up the courts going after classified information in a further attempt to embarrass Democratic administrations. They've had a long history of doing this; their performance after the death of Vince Foster was particularly shameful IMO. 

If said information is released to the public based on a FOIA request then why can it not be interpreted by multiple organizations/people?  it isn't as if this publicly released information is released privately just to the asking party.

 

[Guest]

Link to petition to charge Hillary

 

[dparker713]

Something we can all agree on - rich white people get preferential treatment in the justice system. 

Its actually rich white and anonymous.  The infamous are often put in worse situations.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

 Do I need a lawyer? What have I done? 

That's okay, have your lawyer read the verdict you personally drafted and approved a few months before the investigation is over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBJzxby2VF8

 

[dutch]

Link to petition to charge Hillary

 



Sign This Petition


Needs 94,228 signatures by August 4, 2016 to get a response from the White House


 

 

[dutch]

Response from White House: bwahahaha!

 

[dparker713]

I know you are a super GOPer but your argument is weak. There's no need to make it. All the GOP has to do is play sound bites from Comey's talk. That's way damning enough.

Why focus on a hypothetical conspiracy of corruption for which there is no evidence?

I don't think the GOP can use Comey's speech in a political ad, unless he consents.  While it was a public statement on a matter of public concern, I'm pretty sure he retains his right to publicity.  So while the text is fair game, I don't think footage of his speech is.