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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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Quez
Footballguy
The reason I think that this is unlikely is because right after she did it she tried to blame it on the vanilla cappuccino. She was aware of it, like has happened before. If she was acting like she was being peppered she would have said something like, "who's next" or "one at a time".
I'm not saying it's a seizure, but it is really weird. I almost thought the video was edited at first to add an extra Bob to the head, but her changing the subject to cappuccino makes me think she was aware.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Chuck Todd reporting on allegations of 'DNC unfairness' on MTP this morning is really rich.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I like how people have come in here and rolled their eyes or yawn at the significance of the Wikileaks stuff. I'm not getting personal, but I am going to call out @timschochet here, since his first reaction was to dismiss this with an 
in the leaks thread.
One cannot be a serious consumer of this information and dismiss it as insignificant. Not only is the DNC chair not going to speak in a prime time slot at the convention, not only will the chair be absent from all proceedings this week, the DNC chair is going to get the axe. Before the fallout, any objective observer had to be outraged by the miscarriage of the system for a party chair and surrogates to plot to manufacture a more favorable environment for one candidate over another.
Furthermore, this continues to erode Hillary's chances to win, if it means people--especially Bernie voters she is trying to court--look at this development and throw their hands up and walk away or vote for someone else. It's not as though Hillary is working with a lot of degrees of freedom here.
So, no, this is not a moment. This is damaging to the Democratic Party, to HRC, and ultimately to the country, particularly if it cements feelings of antagonism toward her and the party.
in the leaks thread.One cannot be a serious consumer of this information and dismiss it as insignificant. Not only is the DNC chair not going to speak in a prime time slot at the convention, not only will the chair be absent from all proceedings this week, the DNC chair is going to get the axe. Before the fallout, any objective observer had to be outraged by the miscarriage of the system for a party chair and surrogates to plot to manufacture a more favorable environment for one candidate over another.
Furthermore, this continues to erode Hillary's chances to win, if it means people--especially Bernie voters she is trying to court--look at this development and throw their hands up and walk away or vote for someone else. It's not as though Hillary is working with a lot of degrees of freedom here.
So, no, this is not a
moment. This is damaging to the Democratic Party, to HRC, and ultimately to the country, particularly if it cements feelings of antagonism toward her and the party.
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timschochet
Footballguy
cobalt, I responded with a yawn for 4 reasons:
1. It's not a huge surprise that the DNC favored Hillary going in. Bernie was an independent, an outsider. Of course the DNC was going not to favor him, and this only increased after Bernie's campaign started attacking the DNC.
2. Despite the emails, there's no evidence that the DNC actually did anything to derail Bernie's campaign. Hillary ended up winning pretty substantially, largely because she got the vast majority of black votes in the south. Just as with Obama in 2008, that's how you win the Democratic nomination. Bernie's achievements were startling and impressive, but he was NEVER going to win.
3. Conservatives and Trump fans are eager to tie this to Hillary herself, but there's no evidence of that either. DWS, may have to take the fall (undeservedly IMO, since emails not intended to be read by the public expressing opinions are much different from actually doing anything) but so what? Most of the public has no idea who she is. This is a process story, not much different from when Corey Lewandowski got in trouble. It won't affect the election.
4. Bernie's on board. He's not going to pull a Ted Cruz. Tomorrow night he's going to enthusiastically endorse Hillary for reasons far more important to him, his cause, and the nation, than the minor fallout from this story.
So yeah I give it a yawn. As for those here who claim they might have voted for Hillary if not for this revelation, color me extremely skeptical. In any event, they're hardly representative.
1. It's not a huge surprise that the DNC favored Hillary going in. Bernie was an independent, an outsider. Of course the DNC was going not to favor him, and this only increased after Bernie's campaign started attacking the DNC.
2. Despite the emails, there's no evidence that the DNC actually did anything to derail Bernie's campaign. Hillary ended up winning pretty substantially, largely because she got the vast majority of black votes in the south. Just as with Obama in 2008, that's how you win the Democratic nomination. Bernie's achievements were startling and impressive, but he was NEVER going to win.
3. Conservatives and Trump fans are eager to tie this to Hillary herself, but there's no evidence of that either. DWS, may have to take the fall (undeservedly IMO, since emails not intended to be read by the public expressing opinions are much different from actually doing anything) but so what? Most of the public has no idea who she is. This is a process story, not much different from when Corey Lewandowski got in trouble. It won't affect the election.
4. Bernie's on board. He's not going to pull a Ted Cruz. Tomorrow night he's going to enthusiastically endorse Hillary for reasons far more important to him, his cause, and the nation, than the minor fallout from this story.
So yeah I give it a yawn. As for those here who claim they might have voted for Hillary if not for this revelation, color me extremely skeptical. In any event, they're hardly representative.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
This DNC corruption is unbelievable.
There is no way in hell I'm voting for Hillary the liar. What a POS.
Our politics are rigged and Hillary is now the face of that.
The political system requires a complete overhaul and it sure as hell isn't going to happen under Hillary's watch.
Get her the #### out!
There is no way in hell I'm voting for Hillary the liar. What a POS.
Our politics are rigged and Hillary is now the face of that.
The political system requires a complete overhaul and it sure as hell isn't going to happen under Hillary's watch.
Get her the #### out!
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timschochet
Footballguy
Personally though I AM worried, but not by this DNC story or anything Hillary is doing.
I'm worried that the isolationism and xenophobia Trump is spreading will be popular enough for him to win.
I'm worried that the isolationism and xenophobia Trump is spreading will be popular enough for him to win.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Another Former Hillary supporter who feels betrayed by the DNC emails, and so NOW you can no longer vote for her!This DNC corruption is unbelievable.
There is no way in hell I'm voting for Hillary the liar. What a POS.
Our politics are rigged and Hillary is now the face of that.
The political system requires a complete overhaul and it sure as hell isn't going to happen under Hillary's watch.
Get her the #### out!
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That's one of the reasons picking Hillary was so reckless. She is unpopular and distrusted.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tim you do this. Go look at the emails posted. Discuss the content and the persons involved, that's the evidence you just ignore it constantly.
David Dodds
Administrator
LMAO. Read real newspapers like the Intercept and there is no doubt.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/22/dnc-staffers-mocked-the-bernie-sanders-campaign-leaked-emails-show/
timschochet
Footballguy
What I wrote is that there's no evidence that the DNC actually did anything to alter the results of the election. Saints responded that this claim was contradicted by the evidence. So again I ask what evidence? Mocking a campaign in private emails doesn't exactly cut it.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tim if you're going to ignore the evidence why comment? How about give an example from one of the emails and explain how the DNC did nothing to help Hillary or coordinate with her?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
In regard to #2, derailment is not required to make this reprehensible. Favoritism in creating an environment favorable to one candidate at the expense of another is an improper role for the party.
I feel I have to keep saying this in regard to your sentiment on #3, you'd have to be naive to the point of being a fool to think Hillary and her camp did not coordinate steps with the DNC on this. Will it affect the ultimate outcome remains to be seen, but it plays in the narrative that she is corrupt, that she surrounds herself by surrogates who are corrupt, and that has already diminished her in the polls. The "most qualified candidate in history" is struggling with abysmal favorability ratings and is only barely beating a raging lunatic in the polls. At some point, there will be a breaking point where enough people are fed up with her crap, I don't know when that point is, but she's treading dangerously close to that point. God forbid a leak emerges that she and DNC coordinated and provided definite proof refuting point #3. If that happens, the damage will be irrecoverable.
John Bender
Footballguy
I'm starting to get a touch worried here too. Most friends I know IRL are vehement in their support for Donald. Smart guys, dumb guys, my other half who is a well educated New York City Jewish girl raised as a life-long liberal just got back from almost 2 months in the middle east for work and one of the first things she said "did you see how awesome the Trump speech was at the convention? I'm all in."
I was going to possibly get a little active here in Virginia in support of Hillary but it's almost certainly pointless now with Kaine as the VP pick. had she gone with someone from another state, I'd certainly have gotten involved. I might still.
Weird times. Hopefully a big bump comes after the DNC. I think the speaking choices needed to be measured out a bit more. Don't give out any red met to the already charged up Trump supporters. Keep it modeled around 4 more years of Obama basically. I don't think that's what we're going to get though.
I was going to possibly get a little active here in Virginia in support of Hillary but it's almost certainly pointless now with Kaine as the VP pick. had she gone with someone from another state, I'd certainly have gotten involved. I might still.
Weird times. Hopefully a big bump comes after the DNC. I think the speaking choices needed to be measured out a bit more. Don't give out any red met to the already charged up Trump supporters. Keep it modeled around 4 more years of Obama basically. I don't think that's what we're going to get though.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I wonder how many more times today Trump fans are going to gleefully post about Trump getting the vote of a guy that loved Muammar Gaddafi
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Good luck getting a straight answer.
I think just about anyone with common sense and a working brain knows that Hillary is corrupt and had a lot to do with the DNC rigging the process in her favor. You have to be either extremely naive, stupid or pig-headed to think otherwise, quite honestly.
David Dodds
Administrator
For me, this is deeper than just even the DNC conspiring against Bernie Sanders. It's an absolute confirmation that supposedly "neutral" media is far from it. Most were getting their talking points directly from the DNC. Down-play Hillary's speaking engagements with Wall Street. Down-play the Clinton Foundation and their connection with Super-Delegates. Instead play up Trump and him not releasing his taxes. and the media all playing along.
This media spent 3 days talking about the copied Michelle Obama speech, but failed to even cover this story the last few days? Come on.
The good news with all of this, is the DNC has laid out a road-map to expose Hillary. I think by the time the election happens, most in this country are going to despise her and the rigged system she stands for.
This media spent 3 days talking about the copied Michelle Obama speech, but failed to even cover this story the last few days? Come on.
The good news with all of this, is the DNC has laid out a road-map to expose Hillary. I think by the time the election happens, most in this country are going to despise her and the rigged system she stands for.
timschochet
Footballguy
Did the DNC do anything that changed the results? Because my claim is they did not.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The russia who took over Crimea and is fighting Ukraine, who is laying claim to territory in the Arctic and ramping up military spending and training who has 4 Trump staffers in their pocket is not a problem.
Romney was actually right about this one 4 years ago.
David Dodds
Administrator
Do you believe that the AP story saying she won the night before CA voted (and subsequently picked up by these same media partners) happened by chance? LOL. The DNC "promised" this to Hillary for concessions she made to withdraw against Obama in 2008.
Why was their no CA debate? Hillary said she would debate there only if the DNC sanctioned it. Bernie and Fox was on board to do it. Does anyone think this would not have been a ratings bonanza? Yet the DNC stone-walled it and gave Hillary an out. Read the emails. The DNC wanted to tear into Bernie a LOT more. Hillary's people told them to back off as they still had hope they could court these people by showing how bad Trump was.
I love the emails discussing how none of the concessions to Bernie were enforceable too. "Damn sucker" LOL.
I am not here to convince anyone how to vote. But the DNC is as corrupt as they come. and the Media has gotten so lazy that they just take what they are fed and run with it. Sad times we are living in. Mass surveillance on all of our citizens. State-sponsored media. and now censoring Facebook and Twitter too in an attempt to keep this story at bay.
Card Trader
Footballguy
Wow....it's almost as if some of you actively try to avoid anything, no matter how glaringly obvious, that shows how despicable Hillary and the DNC are.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
All the FBGs complaining about the left leaning of this site can officially stop.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
No, it's as if some people want to see a smoking gun so bad that they are reading things into email exchanges that aren't really there.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Don't you believe in free enterprise? Wasn't our country founded on the ideal of allowing business to be conducted without government interference? Don't you believe in letting the free market decide what is right and what is wrong? As a private organization, the DNC has every right to pick sides, and also has every right to lie about it. Likewise, the liberal media outlets have every right to collaborate with the DNC. If you don't like that, then you can voice your opposition through your wallet. Support political organizations and media outlets that aren't corrupt. If everyone followed suit, then the DNC and their liberal media cronies would shrivel up and disappear.
THAT is what our country stands for.
(in theory, at least)
timschochet
Footballguy
Yeah I believe California was won, because that matched the polls where she had a decisive lead. I also believe the nomination was locked up long before California, so it didn't make any difference anyhow.
TripItUp
Footballguy
David Dodds
Administrator
The media spinning this as if Putin / Russia are responsible for the hack. Really? They were unable to hack Hillary Clinton's private email server with literally no safe-guards on it, but they got through this highly protected server with ease? How gullible does the media expect us to be in all of this?
The hacker claiming responsibility is Guccifer 2.0. Here is an interview from him:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-full-interview-transcript
He is not from Russia. He hates Russia and their policies.
The hacker claiming responsibility is Guccifer 2.0. Here is an interview from him:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-full-interview-transcript
He is not from Russia. He hates Russia and their policies.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Take the Politico exchange for example.That article ran without significant edits and was negative towards Clinton. If that's collusion, it really ####ty collusion.
TripItUp
Footballguy
You are mixing principles.
You can believe in free enterprise and the independence/temerity of our political system.
Bernie would be 10+ points ahead of Trump right now - before the DNC convention.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Comms director of the DNC mails the DNCs talking points on an issue to Chuck Todd. That's not evidence of Chuck Todd taking orders or his talking points from the DNC.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Okay, enough already. JHC. There was nothing wrong with asking the question about a medical condition because what she did was so odd that a "medical condition" was absolutely in the realm of reason.The General said:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Go back to DWS and keeping the field narrow. This is a manufactured result - you get to choose between Hillary and Bernie and now (after the DNC thumbs the scale) it's Hillary or Trump so 'you have no choice.'
timschochet
Footballguy
The media, led by the New York Times and the Washington Post, has been INCREDIBLY negative towards Hillary Clinton for about a year now- repeating false claims about the Clinton Foundation and the email story (for which they were forced to retract and apologize), challenging the competency of her campaign, etc. That's what makes this all so laughable.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Eh, that's not a correct interpretation of what the FBI found or what intelligence experts have determined about Hillary's email server.
Guccifer 2.0 is not one guy.
- He - the interviewee - was caught at not knowing Romanian.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Hillary and Trump are both at McCain/Reagan ages, maybe older? Their health should be an issue, it's true.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
I think NBC and MSNBC have some credibility issues to work through when the head of the DNC feels she can go to the chief political correspondent and the president of the network to influence coverage.
They are not alone in the media, of course, and the RNC does the same thing. But that does not make it right. The media should not be the mouthpieces for any party - in-fact, they should put both parties under more scrutiny. The media is a proxy for the public when it comes to shining a light on how government is performing. It does the public no good if the media is not strictly independent.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
I might argue the exact opposite. They have taken chicken ####, and made chicken salad.
Her team has taken the 2nd most unpopular candidate in modern history, and made her a prohibitive favorite. That is not easy to do - and if they don't cross the finish line in first, it will be down to the candidate, not the campaign.
Jeb Bush, Cruz, Rubio, and even Kasich were worse run campaigns - because had they beaten Trump in the primaries - they would be the prohibitive favorite right now.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
The leaks expose a lot of people who, like Hillary, do not have the courage of their convictions.
Is it really so bad to vote for someone who is more honest like a 10 year old?
https://nypdecider.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/lyanna-mormont.png
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2016/news/160718/ivanka-2-800.jpg
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