Well, I think it is debateable over which one is worse (disclosing national secrets which could endanger lives and weaken our negotiating positions or defrauding average Americans)....both are bad and both should have been prosecuted, IMHO. It sucks ### that our two main choices deserve to have criminal records but instead are leading candidates for the most powerful position in the land.
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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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Yeah, I guess once you throw in all the underaged girls and all of Bill's affairs, sexual assaults, harrassment and rape victimes, there simply is not enough room in the auditorium.
squistion
Footballguy
Sarah Palin did by refusing to answer the questions asked of her by Gwen Ifill and talked about what she wanted to talk about. Trump will try do the same thing and if Lester Holt tries to repeatedly press him for a specific answer, it may be seen as picking on Trump or favoritism to Hillary by a liberal moderator. And, of course, no matter how he does his supporters will call him the debate winner.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This is where I think Trump will create controversy, I think he will be respectful to Hillary.
timschochet
Footballguy
Tomorrow night comes down to this: Hillary Clinton has to dumb down herself and her ideas just enough to convince some very stupid people out there that they should vote for her instead of Donald Trump. And at the same time, she has to convince some fairly intelligent but incredibly misguided people out there that they should vote for her instead of Gary Johnson or Jill Stein.
timschochet
Footballguy
I think- I hope- there are some differences Donald Trump is not running for Vice President, and I think in that debate Palin got some slack she wouldn't have been given had she been running for President.
More importantly, Sarah Palin's major flaw was that she was unqualified. Trump has that flaw as well, but he also has the flaw of having issued incredibly controversial statements on almost any policy you can name. Palin, for all her faults, was a fairly predictable conservative in terms of policy. So I think Trump will receive some more specific questions based on some of his ideas and be pushed to answer them.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Cuban's presence is somewhat justified because he is a Clinton supporter who has appeared at her rallies and given speeches endorsing her. But he's not quite at the level of being "friends and family".
Flowers has had no link to the Trump campaign aside from her Tweet yesterday.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
jerry jones
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
She needs to do the opposite of dumbing herself down in order to emphasize the lack of knowledge Donald possesses.
The way you generally characterize people who disagree with you is beyond ridiculous.
...and she has to do this without anyone mentioning the past 25 years of her corrupt life. She must totally separate "her ideas" from the past eight year disaster.and she has to convince some very stupid people out there that keeping an unprotected server in her basement while conducting sensitive govt. business on that server passes as "good judgement". She also has to hope that nobody asks her exactly how many times has she said "well, I certainly wouldn't do THAT again".
Easy money.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
I will be shocked if Hillary says anything original. She likes to copy other people's ideas.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Trump funny.
Hillary not funny.
Hillary not funny.
Right now - I have it 266-263 - with Colorado up in the air. Clinton is leading in the latest poll by 1
I gave Clinton: PA, VA, MI, WI, and NH - she leads in the latest polling in each state
I gave Trump, FL, OH, AZ, GA, NC, NV, IA - he leads in the latest poling in each state.
I gave Clinton: PA, VA, MI, WI, and NH - she leads in the latest polling in each state
I gave Trump, FL, OH, AZ, GA, NC, NV, IA - he leads in the latest poling in each state.
[scooter]
Footballguy
I think the Cuban invitation was more strategic than that. Let's face it, there is a certain percentage of the population who is voting for Trump solely because he's a Rich & Famous Reality TV Star. Cuban's presence will show those people that not every billionaire is voting for Trump. The side effect of bugging Trump is just an added bonus.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yeah this gets kind of thin. Trump can say the same thing about Flowers reminding people about the Clintons' personal failings and bad judgement and the side effect of bugging Hillary. I'd probably agree with you in terms of which is more legitimate but the mods are not supposed to be calling shots here.
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[scooter]
Footballguy
Why would Colorado be up in the air but Florida is not? Trump's "lead" in Florida (+1 in latest poll, +0.1 in RCP average) is more tenuous than Clinton's lead in Colorado.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Because I think Florida is not going for Clinton. I think Colorado could/should go for Clinton, but it is still up in the air.
I said a few days ago, and I re-iterate here - I think Colorado holds the key to the election.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
The Trump move is actually pretty clever because he can get the moderators to remove a semi-legitimate guest (Cuban) by forcing the moderators to put Cuban on equal ground with a completely illegitimate guest (Flowers).
Hillary asks for a glass of water. Trump demands a soda fountain that only dispenses Mountain Dew X-treme, then throws a fit and forces the moderators to take away Hillary's water.
cstu
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Yeah well, you may noticed, but I don't care.I also don't care if they disagree with me. If there are people out there who are leaning Trump, but are willing to change their minds because they might learn something Monday night about him or her in 90 minutes that they weren't already aware of, then they're stupid. There are some smart people who support Trump, which personally I think is shameful, but I doubt any of them are going to change their minds. There are also people who haven't been paying attention thus far (which in itself is also shameful) and I suppose their opinions could be affected, but if they haven't been paying attention thus far they're probably not going to watch tomorrow night.
Which leads me to this conclusion: if you have been paying attention up to this point, and you are a Trump supporter (or a Hillary supporter for that matter), and tomorrow night changes your mind, then you don't have much of a mind to begin with.
cstu
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Thing is the way I remember it from all of a couple days ago was that Hillaryites were laughing because Cuban would be an irritation to Trump in the front row. I agree either this stuff is legitimate gamesmanship or it's not. What I mean by legitimate is that the Clintons' serial drama in their relationship from 20 years ago and Bill's addiction isn't as substantive an issue as Cuban's criticism of Trump's business acumen. But if as said above Hillary's just going for the reality show audience... she really loses the high ground. I think it's a really dumb move if that's what's going on.
squistion
Footballguy
Most recent polls for President Barack Obama:
Polling Group
Date
Approval
Gallup Poll [a]
September 8-11, 2016
50%
Rasmussen Reports
September 6-9, 2016
51%
ABC News/The Washington Post
September 5-8, 2016
58%
CNN/ORC
September 1-4, 2016
51%
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timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yes this is where he's going with this. He's creating controversy with the debate and the mods. Hillary has entered this arena by inviting Cuban and putting him in the front row. I think it's a really bad move on her part.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Forget about the moral high ground. People get a kick out of this just for the entertainment value.
And Trump can claim again that Hillary started it first.
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[scooter]
Footballguy
The public does not consider Obama to be a disaster. Poll after poll after poll confirms this. The low GDP number does not register with the average voter.
To put it another way: given the choice between <3% growth and another recession, the voters are going to choose the <3% growth every time.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Bronco fans are great, they are passionately proud of their home and home team. Not band wagoners. Good qualities.
1.1% growth is about as close to a recession as you're going to see without actually declaring one.
Think about it how close 1.1% is to absolute stagnation. It is definitely not a point that Hillary will bring up Monday night.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
psssst
psssst
there's evidence of trump having committed actual crimes! Like not even debateable...on record...crimes most would call ....
racist!
[scooter]
Footballguy
It's sad that this election is all about which moves will most agitate an opponent. If George Bush had invited swift boat veterans to a debate, no one would have batted an eye because Kerry would not have gone nuclear over it. (If Kerry were Donald Trump he would have invited the family of the man Laura Bush killed in 1963.)
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Trump supporters will never EVER accept this argument, no matter how true it is.
Even many real conservatives can't....it goes against their DNA to accept any argument that doesn't end with CLinton a career criminal
whitem0nkey
Footballguy
Will the moderator fact check while the debate is going on? or the network have some scroll on the bottom?
Abraham
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
Month-to-month numbers aren't as important as yearly numbers. The last time we had a yearly GDP that low was during the recession. Obama's recent numbers aren't great but they are better than what we had in the last year of Bush. That's why Obama's approval rating is above 50%.
So, this is definitely something that Hillary will bring up Monday night, right? She'll be shouting those numbers from the mountain top!! Trump is done!!
But that is the rub. You ##### and moan when the right spews hateful rhetoric, but then you are just as bad if not worse. It just makes you a hypocrite and lose all credibility on this subject. It is just frustrating, because at times you can be insightful.
I also don't care if they disagree with me. If there are people out there who are leaning Trump, but are willing to change their minds because they might learn something Monday night about him or her in 90 minutes that they weren't already aware of, then they're stupid. There are some smart people who support Trump, which personally I think is shameful, but I doubt any of them are going to change their minds. There are also people who haven't been paying attention thus far (which in itself is also shameful) and I suppose their opinions could be affected, but if they haven't been paying attention thus far they're probably not going to watch tomorrow night.
Which leads me to this conclusion: if you have been paying attention up to this point, and you are a Trump supporter (or a Hillary supporter for that matter), and tomorrow night changes your mind, then you don't have much of a mind to begin with.
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