Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (8 Viewers)

[Hang 10]

The fact that a sizeable number of dip####s are threatening people based on religion/heritage doesn't make something a holocaust.

Tell that to Tobias. 

 

[Henry Ford]

But the criminal on the other side is no big deal to so many.  At least recognize the whole problem. 

I think it's a big deal for most people, just not as big a deal as the megalomaniacal narcissistic misogynist who tends to bankrupt the organizations he leads. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

 Like, for example, the nomination of a megalomaniacal narcissist who is being treated with legitimacy by a huge swath of our nation. 

Ummm...

 

[Henry Ford]

Tell that to Tobias. 

Tobias: the fact that a sizeable number of dip####s are threatening people based on religion/heritage doesn't make something a holocaust.

 

[Koya]

But the criminal on the other side is no big deal to so many.  At least recognize the whole problem. 

Not worth engaging in this with you. With all due respect, it's not an legitimate playing field per my comments before. Rather than further destroy this thread, I'll just let it slide (or I could just respond with  and nothing else).

Unfortunately, there's no value in me responding earnestly to your comments as you clearly won't return that level of respect. If you want to still respond to my posts though, go ahead.  

 

[Henry Ford]

I sure wish all you ####ers had voted for Bernie.

 

[Koya]

Ummm...

Was there anything factually incorrect about my statement?

(I believe, by the clinical definitions, there is not - but I've been wrong before, and you've pointed that out before)

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I assumed you meant someone was predicting another Holocaust.  Obviously harassment and violent threats that reference the holocaust are real and are happening frequently.  Are you mocking people for being troubled by those?  I just assumed nobody would actually mock something like that, which is why I read your comment the way I did.

But pointing out the possibility of overreaction isn't "mocking."

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Was there anything factually incorrect about my statement?

(I believe, by the clinical definitions, there is not - but I've been wrong before, and you've pointed that out before)

I'm just unsure who you were talking about. I made an almost verbatim joke like this upthread.

 

[Henry Ford]

But pointing out the possibility of overreaction isn't "mocking."

I believe that posting laugh smilies is, which was the original reaction.  We can go to Christo for a ruling on that, though.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias: the fact that a sizeable number of dip####s are threatening people based on religion/heritage doesn't make something a holocaust.

Thanks, Henry!  As it turns out I just said pretty much the same thing like two minutes ago.  Glad we're all in agreement on this- our fellow FBGs were merely mocking the idea of being bothered by anti-Semitic threats that reference the Holocaust, not an actual Holocaust. Classy!

 

[Koya]

I sure wish all you ####ers had voted for Bernie.

Way too far left and if you really think Bernie could have withstood the attacks he'd be getting without significant risk, that's a little naive. We don't know what we don't know... but even so we still know that his voting patterns and alignments/allies could depend upon that silly thing called local election politics as opposed to his espoused Liberal viewpoints.

But Martin O'Malley, blah as he can appear.  That could have worked - and pretty damn Liberal too (far more than Hillary for sure).  Bloomberg would have been interesting. And Biden... though I still don't get the love affair, but my hard core Dem friends absolutely love Biden.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I believe that posting laugh smilies is, which was the original reaction.  We can go to Christo for a ruling on that, though.

We could sure use a :spittake: smilie.

 

[Hang 10]

Tobias: the fact that a sizeable number of dip####s are threatening people based on religion/heritage doesn't make something a holocaust.

He said people were calling for "another holocaust" as if that somehow made anyone's fears of a Trump presidency rational. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Thanks, Henry!  As it turns out I just said pretty much the same thing like two minutes ago.  Glad we're all in agreement on this- our fellow FBGs were merely mocking the idea of being bothered by anti-Semitic threats that reference the Holocaust, not an actual Holocaust. Classy!

I can't take credit.  He told me to tell you that.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Thanks, Henry!  As it turns out I just said pretty much the same thing like two minutes ago.  Glad we're all in agreement on this- our fellow FBGs were merely mocking the idea of being bothered by anti-Semitic threats that reference the Holocaust, not an actual Holocaust. Classy!

Except that it wasn't just being "bothered"by it. You sure move the goalposts a lot.

 

[HellToupee]

I sure wish all you ####ers had voted for Bernie.

I wish all you ####ers voted for Mitt

 

[Henry Ford]

He said people were calling for "another holocaust" as if that somehow made anyone's fears of a Trump presidency rational. 

I think it's important during a discussion like this to remember that, by and large, the President is a figurehead.  He has very little real power, outside of appointments and the mostly toothless Commander In Chief role (which is often meaningless without the power of the purse strings) and his real authority and significance is usually in the use of the bully pulpit.  The point being, the election of a President is largely symbolic of a direction for the country and the legitimacy of the supporters of that President and his/her policies and ideas.  

The concern that hate groups that support Trump will gain legitimacy and become emboldened by his election is not irrational. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

but it could be dump to the public?

I'm wheeling back around on this one.

It doesn't mean "preserve" those emails, right?

We know that.

 

[Henry Ford]

I wish all you ####ers voted for Mitt

I wish Mitt had run this election.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Except that it wasn't just being "bothered"by it. You sure move the goalposts a lot.

Fine, change my post to "scared" so it matches up with the word Koya used. Doesn't change a thing. I still think it's awful to mock someone (and yes, they were mocking) for being scared of massive increase in anti-Semitic harassment and threats of violence that reference the Holocaust. I gather that many people on this forum disagree, which bums me out.

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm wheeling back around on this one.

It doesn't mean "preserve" those emails, right?

We know that.

It often - especially in legal circles - means to give a ridiculous number of documents in response to a request.  A "document dump" is generally when you get a request for information and you just give thousands and thousands of potentially responsive documents and tell them "good luck finding what you want."

 

[squistion]

Not worth engaging in this with you. With all due respect, it's not an legitimate playing field per my comments before. Rather than further destroy this thread, I'll just let it slide (or I could just respond with  and nothing else).

Unfortunately, there's no value in me responding earnestly to your comments as you clearly won't return that level of respect. If you want to still respond to my posts though, go ahead.  

There never is with the laughing emoji crowd. Like playing the proverbial chess game with a pigeon - who knocks over all the pieces, craps on the board and then struts around acting like it won. As I mentioned before, kind of pointless engaging these folks.

 

[Parrothead]

so since Comey's letter, we've moved from "HATCH ACT"; to "RUSSIA!"; then a few "HOLOCAUST" and "more RUSSIA!!!!"..  oof

operation deflect is in full swing..   Castle Hillary must be in total panic mode

 

[jamny]

I wish all you ####ers voted for Mitt

Imagine how pleasant things would be right now as Mitt cruises to a second term. Downright boring!

Damn you all!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I mean, it's unsavory but come on - a politician taking a point of view because she needs to please a huge constituency?

Come on, man.  Again, context, nuance... critical thinking.  Even just a little.

IMO we have all gotten a little too jaded.

We get treated bad by our pols, then we say getting treated badly is the norm, then we say getting treated is the way it should be.

This is just me: I think on these big decisions yeah the politicians should be honest about what they believe in, they should be transparent with the people about what they know about an issue, and if the pols are honest and if the people are informed we get good government and a sense of involvement in our democracy and although either side of an issue may be disappointed in the outcome of the ultimate vote on an issue (say in Congress) or decision by a President then we can all feel at least the process worked and you win some you lose some.

There is a lot of dissatisfaction with the way government is working. These things where the people are lied to, and then electoral decisions are made based on such lies, then its harmful to us as a country. Too much cynicism is a bad thing. Personally IMO this is as or more important even than policypolicpolicy, because how can we trust the policy if we cannot trust the process and the people involved in it.

 

[Henry Ford]

so since Comey's letter, we've moved from "HATCH ACT"; to "RUSSIA!"; then a few "HOLOCAUST" and "more RUSSIA!!!!"..  oof

operation deflect is in full swing..   Castle Hillary must be in total panic mode

I think you may find that many people who will be voting for Hillary are not really in "Castle Hillary."  Rather, they are only voting for Hillary because of issues with Trump, and if the Republicans had put up any reasonable alternative to Hillary she'd lose in an unbelievable landslide.

 

[Parrothead]

I think you may find that many people who will be voting for Hillary are not really in "Castle Hillary."  Rather, they are only voting for Hillary because of issues with Trump, and if the Republicans had put up any reasonable alternative to Hillary she'd lose in an unbelievable landslide.

no doubt-  i meant her inner circle..  probably all pooping themselves at this point

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It often - especially in legal circles - means to give a ridiculous number of documents in response to a request.  A "document dump" is generally when you get a request for information and you just give thousands and thousands of potentially responsive documents and tell them "good luck finding what you want."

That's a good thought, I was wondering what you thought about that phrasing. Thanks.

 

[tonydead]

Nobody "cried Holocaust," so put away the straw man. 

I assumed you meant someone was predicting another Holocaust.  

If you're interested in understanding why that might be the case I'd be happy to give you as many examples as you could want of everything from conspiracy-minded antisemitism to straight up threats of violence and calls for another Holocaust. 

 

[Henry Ford]

no doubt-  i meant her inner circle..  probably all pooping themselves at this point

I think after the latest round of revelations, no one's allowed to poop without permission and three people watching.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

There never is with the laughing emoji crowd. Like playing the proverbial chess game with a pigeon - who knocks over all the pieces, craps on the board and then struts around acting like it won. As I mentioned before, kind of pointless engaging these folks.

Like you were strutting around last night with your  postings?

 

[Parrothead]

That's a good thought, I was wondering what you thought about that phrasing. Thanks.

would love to hear a week long debate in the media over the definition of "dump"

 

[Henry Ford]

There are actually people calling for another Holocaust.  You should see the complete freakouts from them while they wrap their heads around the fact that Anthony Weiner is to thank for the latest email scandal.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

would love to hear a week long debate in the media over the definition of "dump"

Seems appropriate for 2016.

 

[ren hoek]

Why do people keep saying this when  it's been debunked, over and over again? 

Is it because her husband was moderate?  That was like twenty years ago!  A tremendous amount has changed in our country and our politics has changed since then.

Most liberals wouldn't support being at war with 6 (7?) different countries, setting precursors for war with Russia, being cozy with huge corporations and banks, being out in front on TPP, or accepting donations from foreign countries with abhorrent human rights records.  When it comes to anything that matters she's a neoliberal.  I don't know what her position is on nsa spying and bank bailouts but I'm guessing she falls in line with the establishment there too.  

 

[SacramentoBob]

It often - especially in legal circles - means to give a ridiculous number of documents in response to a request.  A "document dump" is generally when you get a request for information and you just give thousands and thousands of potentially responsive documents and tell them "good luck finding what you want."

I can't picture a non-technical person not using a term like "delete" or "erase".  A technical person or someone relaying what a technical person said could refer to it as a data dump.

 

[Hang 10]

There are actually people calling for another Holocaust.  You should see the complete freakouts from them while they wrap their heads around the fact that Anthony Weiner is to thank for the latest email scandal.

So what percentage would you say the chances go up that there's another holocaust if Trump gets elected? Because that's what we're talking about here. 

 

[squistion]

On A Scale Of 1 to 10, How Much Should Democrats Panic?

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 4m4 minutes ago

I say 6, but that's taking into account the importance of election in addition to Trump's chances.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/on-a-scale-of-1-to-10-how-much-should-democrats-panic/

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It often - especially in legal circles - means to give a ridiculous number of documents in response to a request.  A "document dump" is generally when you get a request for information and you just give thousands and thousands of potentially responsive documents and tell them "good luck finding what you want."

I can't picture a non-technical person not using a term like "delete" or "erase".  A technical person or someone relaying what a technical person said could refer to it as a data dump.

One other point on this - Cheryl Mills was involved with the calls with Combetta when the data was wiped.

 

[Koya]

IMO we have all gotten a little too jaded.

We get treated bad by our pols, then we say getting treated badly is the norm, then we say getting treated is the way it should be.

This is just me: I think on these big decisions yeah the politicians should be honest about what they believe in, they should be transparent with the people about what they know about an issue, and if the pols are honest and if the people are informed we get good government and a sense of involvement in our democracy and although either side of an issue may be disappointed in the outcome of the ultimate vote on an issue (say in Congress) or decision by a President then we can all feel at least the process worked and you win some you lose some.

There is a lot of dissatisfaction with the way government is working. These thing where the people are lied to, and then electoral decisions are made based on such lies, then its harmful to us as a country. Too much cynicism is a bad thing. Personally IMO this is as or more important even than policypolicpolicy.

I'm totally with you... we need to get the big $$ influences out of the system.  We need to create a system in which it is attractive for GOOD people to run for public office... we need to hold those we elect accountable and hold ourselves, as voters accountable, too.  We elect these idiots after all.

That said, in the context of this race, and the current situation, it's hardly a surprise that politicians be politicianing is all.  We also need to admit that within the current system, these stupid shady games are also how you actually get #### done... we need to fix it, but it's kinda a double edged sword to hold against someone their use of the system itself as long as it was not illegal (and fwiw, this is the same thing with Trump and his not having paid taxes, if indeed the reason he is giving is the case... of course the guy is a true coward and I'll use that however people want to take it, for not putting forth his tax returns, but that's another story).

 

[tonydead]

There are actually people calling for another Holocaust.  You should see the complete freakouts from them while they wrap their heads around the fact that Anthony Weiner is to thank for the latest email scandal.

I'm sure there are. I was just pointing out to Tobias that he interjected Holocaust and then a few seconds later threw it out as a straw man when used against him.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

On A Scale Of 1 to 10, How Much Should Democrats Panic?

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 4m4 minutes ago

I say 6, but that's taking into account the importance of election in addition to Trump's chances.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/on-a-scale-of-1-to-10-how-much-should-democrats-panic/

This reads like the FF articles on the web. Start Wilson and Bench Wilson on the same page.

 

[tonydead]

So what percentage would you say the chances go that there's another holocaust if Trump gets elected? Because that's what we're talking about here. 

0%

 

[Hang 10]

0%

Yup. Good reason to use one of these  when Tobias brings it up then.  

 

[Henry Ford]

Yup. Good reason to use one of these  when Tobias brings it up then.  

But not a good reason to use it in response to people being afraid of violence.  Many things can happen other than there being a "holocaust" that make that fear perfectly reasonable.

 

[Koya]

So what percentage would you say the chances go that there's another holocaust if Trump gets elected? Because that's what we're talking about here. 

Far greater than if Hillary (or anyone else, from either party) were elected.

That doesn't mean it's a likely outcome by any stretch.  But I don't like even long odds if coming up snake eyes is something even 1/100th the magnitude of the Holocaust.  And the tone and rhetoric and style of Trump, as compared with Hitler, and the similarities in terms of their rise - including their ability to garner fanaticism from many who  crave an authoritarian leader - is at times scarily uncanny.  

As someone who lost my mothers entire family (almost) in the Holocaust, I don't go to making such analogies nor insinuations lightly.  But Germany was as advanced a nation, as culturally rich as any other on the planet when the Nazi allure seduced one of the most educated populations into a march of hate and murder.   To think it can't happen again, to not address even the slightest hints of taking that path (and, sadly, there's been far more than just slight hints, the KKK and all are outright supporting this guy and he's not disavowed it!) is to be the definition of to forget.

I have no memories of my entire family on my mothers side.  No memories has instilled in me, never to forget. 

I just wish others would see it even a little in this manner.  But I have a personal perpsective to it, so this resonates. When my wife then tells me she is "scared" and I actually could see it in her eye, it resonates all the more.  

Even if folks don't agree and dismiss what I see clear as day, have at least the respect to know what this election, and what the language and behavior of many of Trumps supporters are doing to your friends, neighbors, countrymen. 

 

[Henry Ford]

One other point on this - Cheryl Mills was involved with the calls with Combetta when the data was wiped.

The email said "not to sound like Lanny [the LAWYER] but we are going to have to dump all those emails"

It was written by John Podesta [a lawyer] to Cheryl Mills [a lawyer].  He was talking about providing the documents.  I'd go about 99.9999% certainty on that.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm totally with you... we need to get the big $$ influences out of the system.  We need to create a system in which it is attractive for GOOD people to run for public office... we need to hold those we elect accountable and hold ourselves, as voters accountable, too.  We elect these idiots after all.

That said, in the context of this race, and the current situation, it's hardly a surprise that politicians be politicianing is all.  We also need to admit that within the current system, these stupid shady games are also how you actually get #### done... we need to fix it, but it's kinda a double edged sword to hold against someone their use of the system itself as long as it was not illegal (and fwiw, this is the same thing with Trump and his not having paid taxes, if indeed the reason he is giving is the case... of course the guy is a true coward and I'll use that however people want to take it, for not putting forth his tax returns, but that's another story).

In general I think it's not the 'illegal' aspect of thinks upsetting the balance, it's the legal 'unethical' side of things that is. Does it matter if it's not illegal if our vote and the supposed bond between citizen and representative, republican (small 'r') democracy is treated like TP? It may not be illegal but I think it has had a corrosive effect on us. It doesn't surprise me that Hillary is really pro-TPP while she tells everyone she isn't. I just think there will be some very justifiably angry voters, on the left and middle, who supported her when she supports its final passage. People feel they are being lied to in their government, that leads to anger. And we lose more than that, we don't even know at this point if TPP is good or bad because we have not had an honest debate about it. Hillary is pro-TPP and Sanders was anti-TPP, but did we get a full throated debate on it so that we could debate it and make up our mind as a people? No, the debate was not had, because Hillary said she was anti-TPP also, but even though both Dem candidates and the GOP (ahem) "candidate" were against it it will almost certainly become law.

 

[Steve Tasker]

But not a good reason to use it in response to people being afraid of violence.  Many things can happen other than there being a "holocaust" that make that fear perfectly reasonable.

Obviously not a Holocaust, but I'm kinda worried that some unhinged fringe group will attack a college campus or news media outlet (or "insert bastion of liberal thinking and bias here") late next week if Hillary wins the election.