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***Official Jays Thread*** They spent $234 Million on this? (2 Viewers)

Papelbon would be nice but I think it's not a closer that they need. I think they need a bullpen.

What would it cost to get Clippard and Kazmir from the A's?

What would it cost for John Axford?

What would it cost for K-Rod?

Should Aaron Sanchez be moved to the pen on his return? I'd like to see him starting but I would like to see them win the division more.

Could Daniel Norris being used late out of the pen help the team?

Just throwing some ideas out there. I think the key is to make a move quickly. The offence is dynamite, the starting pitching lately has been adequate, we just need something that works late in games...

 
A closer makes everything else go away. Cecil's numbers as a late inning lefty have been very good. Loup would then go to lower leverage situations. Delabar is close to back to form as a right handed set up guy. I would add a closer and a starter - don't want to count on Estrada keeping it up.plus you never know where injuries will come up.

Come September, I expect to see Stroman and Hoffman in the bullpen as well.

 
I don't know. It just seems that teams that are successful that aren't loaded with aces have a 7th, 8th and 9th inning guy. It hides shaky starting pitching. Like the Royals (Herrera, Davis, Holland) and the Orioles (O'Day, Miller, Britton) last year. Aside from Shields there weren't any aces on either of these teams and they were the last 2 standing in the AL.

The Rays, Royals and Astros are leading their divisions this year. They all have mediocre rotations but loaded at the back end of the pen.

 
Patrick the Pirate said:
I don't know. It just seems that teams that are successful that aren't loaded with aces have a 7th, 8th and 9th inning guy. It hides shaky starting pitching. Like the Royals (Herrera, Davis, Holland) and the Orioles (O'Day, Miller, Britton) last year. Aside from Shields there weren't any aces on either of these teams and they were the last 2 standing in the AL.

The Rays, Royals and Astros are leading their divisions this year. They all have mediocre rotations but loaded at the back end of the pen.
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Rays have the 4th best starter ERA in baseball, 2nd in AL

 
Limp Ditka said:
Patrick the Pirate said:
I don't know. It just seems that teams that are successful that aren't loaded with aces have a 7th, 8th and 9th inning guy. It hides shaky starting pitching. Like the Royals (Herrera, Davis, Holland) and the Orioles (O'Day, Miller, Britton) last year. Aside from Shields there weren't any aces on either of these teams and they were the last 2 standing in the AL.

The Rays, Royals and Astros are leading their divisions this year. They all have mediocre rotations but loaded at the back end of the pen.
Click to expand...
Rays have the 4th best starter ERA in baseball, 2nd in AL
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I apologize. I will clarify. In my opinion Chris Archer, Nate Karns, Alex Colome, Erasmo Ramirez and Matt Andriese collectively form a mediocre rotation.

In actual fact, they are the 4th best rotation in MLB and the 2nd best rotation in the AL.

 
Archer and Odorizzi alone can likely account for the 3 game gap between Rays and Jays. The Jays have no one close (excluding Stroman).

The Rays won't be anywhere near the playoffs in the end anyway, look at this ####### lineup:

Kiermayer

Butler

Longoria

DeJesus

Forsythe

Souza Jr.

Cabrera

Elmore

Rivera

Andriese

Over the long term, Toronto is a better team than that, as long as Archer isn't pitching.

 
Still too early to watch standings too close but given how Rays have owned Jays over the years, this feels like a big series win.

Thank goodness for Marco Estrada and Chris Colabello

 
Related, is it possible Kevin Pillar is actually good? 2.1 WAR right now. Basically great CF defense and league average hitting,which with this offense is all they just need - I'm just still not sure I trust the bat to even be average.

 
Northern Voice said:
Related, is it possible Kevin Pillar is actually good? 2.1 WAR right now. Basically great CF defense and league average hitting,which with this offense is all they just need - I'm just still not sure I trust the bat to even be average.
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Guy needs to take a walk every once in awhile and then I could see him holding at average.

 
This is getting stupid. CC's slash v RHP this year is .318/.352/.461 and is riding pine again today with Carrera (.263/.324/.347 v RHP) getting a start.

 
Limp Ditka said:
Northern Voice said:
Limp Ditka said:
This CC thing is reaching WTF? status.
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He's not that good. HTH
Click to expand...
I get that he's a butcher in the field, but his OPS is 13 points lower than Josh Donaldson and he's losing ABs to something named Ezequiel Carerra
Click to expand...
His hitting numbers are BABIP inflated (.421), reality is Danny Valencia is better vs. LH and a better fielder in the outfield. Smoak is a better hitter vs. RHP and a better fielding first baseman.

Colabello should probably start at 1B vs. LHP every game right now, but Dioner Navarro is a complicating factor as well in that they want to get him his share of time.

In terms of LF - he's so bad defensively, maybe give him the first 6 innings vs. RHP, then bring in Carrera as a defensive sub? But Valencia is actually hitting RHP well right now... In any case, Valencia and Smoak are deservedly ahead of him on the depth chart now.

It's pretty amazing that Colabello can be hitting 325/371/500 and still have a negative WAR - speaks to just how bad he is at everything else.

Disclaimer: I ####### love Danny Valencia.

 
Trade deadline thoughts?

I'm torn. On one hand, this offense is so good, I feel like average pitching might be enough to get deep in the playoffs. A Cueto/Samardzija/Hamels would be incredible, even a Leake/Kazmir would help a lot - but in any case likely costs at least one of Dan Norris or Jeff Hoffman.

After the season, Dickey and Buehrle are gone - that is good in that it opens up $30+ million in cap space, but Buerhle as been far and away the Jays best starter this year.

If they don't trade them, it's hard not to dream on a Stroman/Sanchez/Norris/Hoffman/Hutchison rotation full of young arms, with a lineup built around Donaldson and Martin who are here at least 3 more years each. For next year, you still have Bautista and Edwin as well.

Pitching prospects often bust and there are no sure things, so maybe dealing them and hoping they win this year is still the best bet (Flags Fly Forever), etc...

In any case, I don't see Anthopolous back with this team next year.

 
“@JeffPassan: Sources: Cleveland has been willing to listen on pitching, particularly Carlos Carrasco. May be a match there with Toronto. They've talked.”

 
Northern Voice said:
Limp Ditka said:
Northern Voice said:
Limp Ditka said:
This CC thing is reaching WTF? status.
Click to expand...
He's not that good. HTH
Click to expand...
I get that he's a butcher in the field, but his OPS is 13 points lower than Josh Donaldson and he's losing ABs to something named Ezequiel Carerra
Click to expand...
His hitting numbers are BABIP inflated (.421), reality is Danny Valencia is better vs. LH and a better fielder in the outfield. Smoak is a better hitter vs. RHP and a better fielding first baseman.

Colabello should probably start at 1B vs. LHP every game right now, but Dioner Navarro is a complicating factor as well in that they want to get him his share of time.

In terms of LF - he's so bad defensively, maybe give him the first 6 innings vs. RHP, then bring in Carrera as a defensive sub? But Valencia is actually hitting RHP well right now... In any case, Valencia and Smoak are deservedly ahead of him on the depth chart now.

It's pretty amazing that Colabello can be hitting 325/371/500 and still have a negative WAR - speaks to just how bad he is at everything else.

Disclaimer: I ####### love Danny Valencia.
Click to expand...
I agree with you here big time. Danny V. is the best option they have in LF.

I liked what Colabello was doing and it's a good story and all but at the end of the day he's a bench bat.

 
Northern Voice said:
Trade deadline thoughts?

I'm torn. On one hand, this offense is so good, I feel like average pitching might be enough to get deep in the playoffs. A Cueto/Samardzija/Hamels would be incredible, even a Leake/Kazmir would help a lot - but in any case likely costs at least one of Dan Norris or Jeff Hoffman.

After the season, Dickey and Buehrle are gone - that is good in that it opens up $30+ million in cap space, but Buerhle as been far and away the Jays best starter this year.

If they don't trade them, it's hard not to dream on a Stroman/Sanchez/Norris/Hoffman/Hutchison rotation full of young arms, with a lineup built around Donaldson and Martin who are here at least 3 more years each. For next year, you still have Bautista and Edwin as well.

Pitching prospects often bust and there are no sure things, so maybe dealing them and hoping they win this year is still the best bet (Flags Fly Forever), etc...

In any case, I don't see Anthopolous back with this team next year.
Click to expand...
It would be a shame to waste such a good offensive year.

I personnally don't think the answer is in getting a rental SP. SP is a sellers market. Everybody in the race wants SP. What are you going to get out of them? 10-11 starts before they hit FA?

Really I think the answer is a couple of bullpen arms. Not the heavies like Kimbrel and Chapman but 2 solid guys that can give you an inning like Clippard, K-Rod, Cishek etc... It's almost like RP is a buyers market with so many teams shopping their closers. So go pick up a few from the bargain bin and see what happens. Not going to cost your future.

If your pen can lock down innings 7-9, this rotation should be able to limit the damage to 4 or less R's most of the time in those first 6. The offence scores ~5 a game on average.

Just think, if the pen had only blown half of their blows, what would the teams overall record be???

 
I'm not sure how AA doesn't blow out the farm this year for immediate help. He has 3 plausible scenarios:

1) Does nothing, misses the playoffs and is fired.

2) He sells the farm, misses the playoffs, gets fired.

3) Sells the farm, makes the playoffs, keeps his job.

4) Does nothing, makes the playof... :lmao:

 
Jays could end up with a pretty good pen once Hutch gets pulled out of the rotation.

Osuna

Sanchez

Schultz

Hutch

Just need Cecil and Loup to get their #### together and to find a pair of starters... Wonder if Stroman will be out of the pen when he's back.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
hxperson said:
obviously tulo is awesome but I hate that they traded Hoffman and castro and didn't get a pitcher back
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Can't imagine they're done. This trade helps beyond this year and Reyes was becoming borderline unplayable at SS, getting out from that contract, even if Tulo's isn't great is worth it IMO.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
I'm not sure how AA doesn't blow out the farm this year for immediate help. He has 3 plausible scenarios:

1) Does nothing, misses the playoffs and is fired.

2) He sells the farm, misses the playoffs, gets fired.

3) Sells the farm, makes the playoffs, keeps his job.

4) Does nothing, makes the playof... :lmao:
Click to expand...
Well... It's going to be either 2) or 3).

This move doesn't make sense if it's the only move they make. I imagine everything on the farm is going to get traded now.

The question is, do they have enough bullets left in the gun to land a front line starter and a closer?

 
That said, Gibbons hasn't been afraid to be unconventional with the lineup, could you throw Tulo in the leadoff spot and make opponents face the big 4 over and over again...

 
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