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***Official Lord Stanley's Cup Playoff Thread: Getzlaf 15 charges four game 6 tickets, a limo, and five steak sandwiches to Cav's room. FBG CORNHOLE A (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
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northern exposure
Footballguy
Pierre LeBrun just tweeted that of 23 NHL Coaches and GMs he spoke to, only 6 thought Niskanen's hit was worthy of a suspension. Pens fans, commence freaking out.
ETA -UPDATE
9mPierre LeBrun @PierreVLeBrun
So the updated tally now: 7 of the 23 coaches/GMs canvassed believe Niskanen deserves a suspension (varies from 1 to 2 games)
13mPierre LeBrun @PierreVLeBrun
However, 6 of them did feel Niskanen should be suspended, some felt he knew what he was doing; others because a head shot is a head shot
14mPierre LeBrun @PierreVLeBrun
Majority of the GMs/coaches polled felt there wasn't intent by Niskanen on the play; others pointed out that Crosby was falling (con't)
ETA -UPDATE
9mPierre LeBrun @PierreVLeBrun
So the updated tally now: 7 of the 23 coaches/GMs canvassed believe Niskanen deserves a suspension (varies from 1 to 2 games)
13mPierre LeBrun @PierreVLeBrun
However, 6 of them did feel Niskanen should be suspended, some felt he knew what he was doing; others because a head shot is a head shot
14mPierre LeBrun @PierreVLeBrun
Majority of the GMs/coaches polled felt there wasn't intent by Niskanen on the play; others pointed out that Crosby was falling (con't)
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Cross-checking and slashing are both illegal, and both were intentional; whether they intended to get Crosby in the head or not both Ovechkin and Niskanen are responsible for their sticks and where they go. I'd personally like to see players suspended in cases like this, but understand the other side of that argument as well. Arguing that the single major actually handed out was unwarranted, aftermath call or no, isn't a super valid opinion IMO. Certainly it merited the major with at least 2 minutes of 5 on 3 due to the Ovechkin slash immediately prior. I'm definitely not crying "conspiracy" or "intentionally injured him" or anything like that, but he got hurt (for who knows how long) by two illegal shots to the melon with sticks, and that's crap and should be punished harshly IMO. If his head bounced off of the boards or the ice after a clean hit it would be another story entirely.
And I never claimed that you were a Caps fan, just stating that you are absolutely coming off as a Crosby / Pens hater.
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Bill Brasky
Footballguy
Chet> can I borrow one of your Caps jerseys?
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Bill Brasky
Footballguy
you'll be better off when you realize that not every play has to place blame on someone. sometimes unfortunate things happen in a game this fast. he's falling into him, he's bracing himself. if you think he's cross checking anything you're giving him way too much credit.
they made the major call after they saw that he didn't get up. huddled up and decided on it. happens all the time.
also, you have no idea what having control of your stick means.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
I'm just amazed that Tie Domi is still alive. I figured he'd be face down in a sewer about 10 years ago.
I'm only slightly less amazed he knows how to do the Tweeters.
I'm only slightly less amazed he knows how to do the Tweeters.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Niskanen himself said that he intended to cross check him, guy, just not that hard and that he was trying to hit him in the numbers, not in the head. He certainly intended to light him up as he came across in front of the crease. And Ovechkin clearly delivered an intentional slash to the shoulder that rode up and caught him in the head as well. No chit things happen in a game this fast, and if someone's illegal actions result (cross checking and slashing are both still illegal, head shots or no, last I checked) in another player getting two sticks to the dome which give him a concussion and knock him out cold, then there should be consequences.
northern exposure
Footballguy
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
FWIW, he doesn't really bother me at all. Its irritating to see his little cheap shots because he doesn't need to do that nonsense, but overall, I got no issues with him.
Bill Brasky
Footballguy
not all what he said. and like controlling your stick you don't understand what a cross check is if your interpretation is that literal.
it's almost as if you expected him to throw his stick to the side and/or dive out of the way on a scoring chance where he needs to be at that pipe. he wouldn't be in this league if he played like that.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Were you trying to cross-check him, and then his head goes down, and then you hit his head?
“I wasn’t even trying to cross-check him with a serious amount of force. A collision was gonna happen there, in the crease. When the play first starts, I think my stick’s at about his arm level, probably. Right about where the numbers are on the side of his jersey. Because he’s trying to make a play, he’s getting lower and lower, because he’s getting pressured trying to score. So the collision happened.”
Not "no, I wasn't trying to cross check him," but "I wasn't trying to cross check him that hard." He had his stick off the ice, with both hands on it, and hit Crosby with it. Last I checked, that's a cross check. I don't expect him to dive out of the way, a shoulder would be fine, or anything other than bringing up the stick with both hands to deliver the hit.
tough to argue intent when a player's head is waist high and Niskanen had maybe a second or less to react.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I'm not arguing intent with Niskanen re: the head shot -- but IMO it is very likely that he was intending to cross check him as he cut across in front of the crease and happened to catch him in the head. IMO he should be held responsible for that hit, intent aside.
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So? Since baseball's inception, pitchers loaded up the ball, until that was stopped. For a long time, football players would go after opposing QB's heads, until they stopped allowing that. "They've always done it like this" is a stupid argument.Billy Bats said:Perhaps you should try watching figure skating? No offense but this sounds like some liberal minded bull####. It's the way the game has been played since its inception, it's not going to change anytime soon.
What's more, is the after the whistle crap is ILLEGAL. The officials just decide to "let them play" in the playoffs. And, to be honest, I don't mind ignoring ticky-tack stuff that occurs between the whistles. But how is not wanting to see a bunch of guys face-washing each other EVERY TIME the goalie freezes the puck "liberal minded bull####?" No offense, but maybe you are too ###-backward in thinking that the way things were done in "the good old days" was better.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
Marc Methot liked the hit
Bill Brasky
Footballguy
look, you stumbled on the answer accidentally. congrats. preferring a check to the head there seems like splitting hairs, but I'm glad you figured it out.
also, check again.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
IS the after the whistle crap illegal? It's all really only illegal if the refs call it that way, right? If they don't call it, it's not really illegal. Heck - even cut-and-dry rules like icing can be ignored by refs. There's a lot of grey area in hockey. Maybe besides delay-of-game, offside, and a few others, a lot of the calls are subjective.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
So you're comparing going after a QB's head to a face massage of a hockey glove?
No idea how I came to any conclusions.
Maybe, just maybe, the game is fine the way it is.
BTW, if they called every little thing after the whistle to satisfy you, your boy Sid would spend more time in the box than actual TOI. (Time on ice)
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Meh. The nut shot to that Sabres guy was worse IMO. And he certainly should have gotten a double minor for the slash to Methot regardless.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
He's not my boy, and if that got rid of the after whistle crap, good. He'd either figure it out, or his team would suffer. But the hockey would be better.
Well ####, if it's not really illegal if the refs call it, then game on.
The Pens should just wait for the first whistle & go buck-wild next game; drop kicks, suplexes, no-holds-barred ####. Like I'm that Keanu Reeves football movie. The refs won't be able call it all, so what they get away with is legal, according to you.
It's illegal, irregardless; it's just not enforced if they don't call it.
HTH
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Billy Bats
Footballguy
A conga line to the penalty box, sounds great. You want to take the emotion out of the game, especially in the playoffs. Because that's what that stuff is; emotion, gamesmanship, attitude whatever. You take that out and the game wouldn't be much fun. These guys are playing a fast, violent sport a lot of times with broken bones, sure let's just turn them off. It will never happen.
Bill Brasky
Footballguy
Chet> Fantasycurse sent me a link to stubhub and there are lots of game 5 tickets available to go see our Caps. I will rock large quantities of red if you bring the cowbells.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
JaxBill
Footballguy
Fat Nick
Footballguy
...if you think they can do whatever they want and the refs won't call it, you're completely missing the point. The truth is between that and strict letter of the rules. i.e. the grey area I mentioned earlier.
Nobody ever said the ref's won't be able to call it...it's that they have discretion in what they call. The definition of cross-check is "The action of using the shaft of the stick between the two hands to forcefully check an opponent." The grey area here is "forcefully." Watch any game and you'll see guys hit another guy with the shaft of their stick between the two hands all the time...it doesn't get called unless it's too forceful. The definition of forceful is the grey area.
Find me a sport that calls every single penalty/infraction to the letter of the rule every single time it happens, and you'll be showing me figure skating.
HTH
You're crazy. If the players know that the stupid face washes, extra slash after the whistle, stupid little elbow/shoulder/shoulder/etc after the whistle will cost their team a power play, they'll stop doing it. And if the league & officials make it clear that this will happen, those penalties wouldn't last more than a few games.
Its not emotion, it's stupid. It doesn't make the game better & it could easily be eliminated. Grumpy old men just don't want it to go away because "that's not how we did it in my day, now get off my lawn!"
You're the guy who said these things are only illegal if you get penalized for it, not me. I was just pointing out the absurdity of that argument.
As far as missing the point, I'm guessing you didn't read any of my earlier posts?
I clearly said I'm fine with the refs letting ticky-tack stuff go, BETWEEN THE WHISTLES. I'm thinking a "non-forceful" cross check would fall under that description.
What I would like to see gone is the stupid, antagonistic post-whistle stuff that increases during the playoffs. Make the players know that the nonsense that occurs after the whistle will be punished, and they'll stop doing it.
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northern exposure
Footballguy
Methot can count on the fingers of one hand how many times a play like that is deserving of a major and a game misconduct during a season.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
...but WHY? If everyone does it, the culture of the players and refs accepts it, why should it go away?
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
BECAUSE BAYHAWKS DOESN'T LIKE IT THAT'S WHY!!! PROTEST THE NHL UNTIL THEY PLAY IT HIS WAY!!!
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
And another one from a non-Pittsburgh source (in MN, just for you Brasky):
http://www.startribune.com/watch-the-sidney-crosby-hit-dirty-play-or-bad-timing/420999953/
"I’ve watched the slow-motion replay a dozen times now (at least) and I still can’t decide for sure whether Niskanen intentionally went for Crosby’s head or if the hit would have landed more in the chest or shoulder area if Crosby wasn’t falling a little.
The combination of all the factors, though — from Washington’s desperation, to the Capitals’ knowledge of Crosby’s impact and injury history to Ovechkin’s ploys to knock Crosby off-balance and finally to Niskanen’s shot to the head — can lead you to conclude it was a dirty play of the worst kind: one designed to knock out a star player and influence the outcome of a game/series."
http://www.startribune.com/watch-the-sidney-crosby-hit-dirty-play-or-bad-timing/420999953/
"I’ve watched the slow-motion replay a dozen times now (at least) and I still can’t decide for sure whether Niskanen intentionally went for Crosby’s head or if the hit would have landed more in the chest or shoulder area if Crosby wasn’t falling a little.
The combination of all the factors, though — from Washington’s desperation, to the Capitals’ knowledge of Crosby’s impact and injury history to Ovechkin’s ploys to knock Crosby off-balance and finally to Niskanen’s shot to the head — can lead you to conclude it was a dirty play of the worst kind: one designed to knock out a star player and influence the outcome of a game/series."
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Because it makes the game less enjoyable, doesn't make the game better, and is pointless.
Everyone used to fight, the culture of the players & refs accepted fighting, but that has pretty much gone away, & the game is better for it.
Get off my lawn!!!!BECAUSE BAYHAWKS DOESN'T LIKE IT THAT'S WHY!!! PROTEST THE NHL UNTIL THEY PLAY IT HIS WAY!!!
Bill Brasky
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Was it a dirty hit on Sidney Crosby?
- Yes - dirty hit
- No - clean hit
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Ovechkin's Ploy is the name of my Five For Fighting tribute band
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I don't agree that they were trying to hurt him of deliberately head-hunting. But the "just a hockey play" stuff is equally absurd. Just pointing out that opinion seems to be fairly evenly split.
Dickie Dunn
Footballguy
Something else I learned here today: There are a lot more Penguins fans than I realized. How in the world did they finish last in attendance in 2004 and almost move to Kansas City?
Bill Brasky
Footballguy
it's not at all evenly split. that's you cherry picking to somehow reinforce a bad point.
cite whatever goof blogger, Pitt homer, or Tony Twist tweet you want. but if you want some credibility, look how the GMs, who are actually invested in the health of these players, saw it. the face of the league, a league getting sued and criticized heavily for head injuries for the last decade, goes down with a head injury in prime time in the feature series and nothing. if ever there was a time to throw the book at a guy it's there.
he falls into him. there is no fault there. it's a fluke play. get over it.
chet
Footballguy