*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (1 Viewer)

[shuke]

And the idea that it only ends once, everything until then is just progress, was talking more about life and death than about the candidates.

Wait, was this line in Lost or the Dark Tower? Or both?

 

[AcerFC]

Read Stephen Kings The Dark Tower series and then the other books that splinter off. Then go back and watch LOST and you will see how much LOST is similar if not connected to Kings world.

First off, I think anyone who enjoyed LOST should check out the Dark Tower books.Second (and without any spoilers or put in tags) which ending did you think was better / more satisfying? LOST or Dark Tower?

will try to get to barnes and nobles today

Don't get discouraged by the first book.

Couldnt make it to Barnes so I just ordered the first 4 in a box set from Amazon

 

[DrJ]

Really enjoying this 4 minutes of show, 5 minutes of commercials. Way to stretch it out, asses!

Come on, you knew it was coming.......

Yeah...and I don't begrudge the show.... ( I think the finale is actually really good). I'm more annoyed by how it would be almost impossible, due to every media outlet and the various ### clowns I know who would spoil it, to wait to watch it on DVR tomorrow.

This is what I did and it worked out okay.

 

[rascal]

Somebody explain this alternate reality thing to me.

Oh...and I'm raising the on the whole repairing the aircrafts landing gear hydraulic system with freaking duck-tape.

 

[Fennis]

Somebody explain this alternate reality thing to me.Oh...and I'm raising the on the whole repairing the aircrafts landing gear hydraulic system with freaking duck-tape.

so you buy surviving having your plane brake up in mid-air, time travel, being cured of spinal injuries and cancer by an island, smoke monsters, electromagnetic discharges causing airplane crashes, surviving nuclear explosions, people who don't age, people cant be killed, people communicating with dead people, touching people to heal them, and on and on and on, but you draw the line at duct tape?

 

[rascal]

Somebody explain this alternate reality thing to me.Oh...and I'm raising the on the whole repairing the aircrafts landing gear hydraulic system with freaking duck-tape.

so you buy surviving having your plane brake up in mid-air, time travel, being cured of spinal injuries and cancer by an island, smoke monsters, electromagnetic discharges causing airplane crashes, surviving nuclear explosions, people who don't age, people cant be killed, people communicating with dead people, touching people to heal them, and on and on and on, but you draw the line at duct tape?

you raise a valid point.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I still find it amazing that one of the most important elements, Smoky, was a huge element very early on, then basically disappeared for like half the series. Maybe he was taking a vacation from the island during seasons 3-5?

 

[the moops]

It is not a great impact but it is a show that is better, to me, than The Wire (never seen it).

oh sweet jesus

 

[Masked Vigilante]

I wrote earlier that I didn't think the final confrontation was epic worthy - a fist fight between good and evil? One that the good guy was losing and had to be saved?I would have dug a lot more:At the point where Des removes the cork, Jack turns around and it's the real MIB (not the fake Locke) behind him. Jack clocks him. MIB sees his reflection and realizes something is wrong. Jack reveals that he knew all along what would happen whne the cork was pulled. MIB's power - even though dark - was tied to the light - and extinguishing the light makes MIB mortal.Jack than says "I found my loophole, b***h."MIB is upright, Jack clocks him "this is for Juliet"Again - this is for Jin and Sun"Again - "this is for John Locke"And with the final blow - this is for being an a**hole"I'm kidding about the profanity - and in the end it's a fistfight - but it's one where Jack tunred the tables on the stronger opponent and isn't saved by the girl.

Awful.

And if it would have happened, you would be talking about how great it was

No.

 

[huskers15]

Somebody explain this alternate reality thing to me.Oh...and I'm raising the on the whole repairing the aircrafts landing gear hydraulic system with freaking duck-tape.

Did you not see Mythbusters, duct tape special, That stuff can do it all.

 

[beer 30]

I still find it amazing that one of the most important elements, Smoky, was a huge element very early on, then basically disappeared for like half the series. Maybe he was taking a vacation from the island during seasons 3-5?

No, that's when the massively important to the story Dharma storyline was introduced. Right shuke?

 

[Jayrok]

Found on Lostpedia, this is from someone who works for Bad Robot:

First ...The Island:It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...Now...Sideways World:Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

I buy it.

Same here.

 

[wadegarrett]

LOST nailed it, and then some. Excellent finale.

On board here. Some bitter in here.

 

[sho nuff]

Found on Lostpedia, this is from someone who works for Bad Robot:

First ...The Island:It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...Now...Sideways World:Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

I buy it.

The only thing I disagree on is the Dharma ideas...if they were for good...why were they trying to harness the power of the island. Im not sure how good they really were. More so that maybe originally they were...but smokey had already corrupted somebody (if you buy that theory) into trying to harness the power...hence the stations, and the finishing of the donkey wheel.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I think it helps to think of the events on the island and the events in the flash-sideways as consecutive rather than concurrent.

Has anyone actually alluded to thinking of them as the latter?

For about 3/4 of the season I thought they were concurrent. I suppose I'm the only one of 15 million viewers that thought that way though, so your point is well taken.

 

[TobiasFunke]

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot.

Well this is clearly bull#### because Desmond wasnt in season 1. Was Juliette in the church?

A Desmond character was clearly contemplated in Season 1, since they discovered the hatch in Season One and I assume that the writers/producers were planning to have a guy down there from the get-go.Juliet and Libby- that's another story.

 

[Blick]

... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

I guess this guy from Bad Robot is just way smarter than me. I don't get it.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The whole Dharma thing has me scratching my head. I think Dentist said it, this story should/could have been told in 3 seasons without all the "stuff" that had no bearing on storyline.

This #### kills me. Without all the "stuff", there wouldn't have been a story to tell.

I agree. Not sure what everyone was expecting here. It was part of the ride and it was fun as hell.

Also, it had a central bearing on the storyline. Dharma was the primary means by which they told the viewer the story of this island and it's electromagnetic properties and other crazy goings-on, as opposed to the show just being fictionalized version of Survivor + crazy black smoke. It's how the hatch got there and how the electromagnetic pulses were triggered and then reined in until Desmond let it loose and caused the plane crash, which of course is how the whole frigging show got started.It's also where we got a bunch of the main characters, including Ben and Juliet and Widmore (and therefore Desmond) and role players like Rousseau and Pierre Chang and Ethan. And it was a storytelling tool that allowed the plane crash survivors to get some modern conveniences on the island. Plus the role it played in the flashbacks when some Losties ended up in the 70s.

It was kind of a huge part of the story. People overstated its importance as if it was the central mystery of the show back when we saw that crazy map, but the show itself never said that was the case. They were telling the story of the main characters and the island and Dharma was a big part of that.

 

[The Noid]

How can you not appreciate the fact that the sideways turned out to be purgatory?

Well cant you basically end every show or movie that has an otherwise sad ending with a scene of everyone reuniting in purgatory and thus have a happy ending? Thats what I feel like they did.

No, in this particular case, purgatory was one of the first, and most widely believed for years, theories on what the island was. So they took that popular theory and worked it in as a flash sideways for the entire last season but didn't reveal it until the last 10 minutes. When I figured out what the sideways was in those last 10 minutes, I thought: "Son of a #####, THAT was purgatory! Not the island."They have filled the show with references and direct lines from characters that echo what the fans opinions, reactions and questions were. This was probably the biggest nod to any of that.

 

[David Yudkin]

I think it helps to think of the events on the island and the events in the flash-sideways as consecutive rather than concurrent.

Has anyone actually alluded to thinking of them as the latter?

For about 3/4 of the season I thought they were concurrent. I suppose I'm the only one of 15 million viewers that thought that way though, so your point is well taken.

We've debated what many thought were the timelines. Island time was said to have been 2007, as the folks returning to the island did so 3 years after the original plane crash. The flash sideways was supposed to have been in 2004, as the plane didn't crash and the story took up from there.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I think it helps to think of the events on the island and the events in the flash-sideways as consecutive rather than concurrent.

Has anyone actually alluded to thinking of them as the latter?

For about 3/4 of the season I thought they were concurrent. I suppose I'm the only one of 15 million viewers that thought that way though, so your point is well taken.

We've debated what many thought were the timelines. Island time was said to have been 2007, as the folks returning to the island did so 3 years after the original plane crash. The flash sideways was supposed to have been in 2004, as the plane didn't crash and the story took up from there.

It's tough because the FS isn't really ANY time. By necessity, any scene in the FS involving a character has to be after that character's death.

 

[packersfan]

So the ending came from J.J. Abrams. Very interesting.

Well done J.J. Great foresight.

 

[Carver]

It is not a great impact but it is a show that is better, to me, than The Wire (never seen it).

oh sweet jesus

There are not enough lol emoticons on the internet for this one.

 

[Dr. No]

The whole Dharma thing has me scratching my head. I think Dentist said it, this story should/could have been told in 3 seasons without all the "stuff" that had no bearing on storyline.

This #### kills me. Without all the "stuff", there wouldn't have been a story to tell.

I especially love the "they could have wrapped it up in 3 seasons" shtick.Yes, they could have. And they could have made about $800 million less. Brilliant idea folks.

this doesn't defend the fact that it could've been a better story if they would've done it this way.They could've made more money by drinking bud light instead of dharma beer and eating snickers instead of apollo bars.. would you have preferred that?

 

[David Yudkin]

I think it helps to think of the events on the island and the events in the flash-sideways as consecutive rather than concurrent.

Has anyone actually alluded to thinking of them as the latter?

For about 3/4 of the season I thought they were concurrent. I suppose I'm the only one of 15 million viewers that thought that way though, so your point is well taken.

We've debated what many thought were the timelines. Island time was said to have been 2007, as the folks returning to the island did so 3 years after the original plane crash. The flash sideways was supposed to have been in 2004, as the plane didn't crash and the story took up from there.

It's tough because the FS isn't really ANY time. By necessity, any scene in the FS involving a character has to be after that character's death.

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Surprise, surprise, I loved it. I can see many people not liking it, and that’s fine. I don’t think anyone will be able to convince either side otherwise. I'm still wrapping my head around it and I haven't really read anything on it and I’ll go back and re-read the earlier posts in this thread. I’m not saying I’m right or anyone else’s interpretations are wrong, but these are my thoughts:

They didn't die in the plane crash on September 22, 2004. Everything they went through on the island and in the flash forwards, flashbacks and time travel was all real.

The Sideways were created, for lack of a better term, by their souls as a place where, when the time was right, they would eventually meet, remember and move on to the afterlife. That's not to say that the Sideways weren't real. Up until their enlightenment, the Sideways was just as real to everyone as everything else. In the sideways their characters and personalities were fundamentally the same, but the circumstances of their lives changed by varying degrees depending on the individual and depending on how much "work" they had to do to be ready to move on.

I think many people will be confused by the Sideways and the "timing" of it and the appearance of the characters. The sideways could be 2000 years from now, or it could be right now. As Christian Shephard said (and I'm paraphrasing here), time doesn't matter there. The appearance of the characters is how each of the characters remembers each other at the critical part of their life when they met each other and formed the bonds that stretched beyond this mortal life.

The island was a figurative and literal cork, but I think it also acted as a filter. When Desmond pulled the stopper, the more peaceful, beautiful light many faiths associate with paradise was replaced by a reddish light and smoke that many faiths associate with hell, not to mention the island slowly breaking apart and literally sinking into the underworld. Desmond pulling the cork also caused a bit of a reset and made FLocke mortal, allowing Jack and Kate to kill him. Somewhat poetically, I might add, with FLocke falling to his death as regular Locke should have.

When Jack replaced the cork, the red light/Gate to Hell was closed and the light was filtered again. Jack was not turned to smoke because he didn't have the evil in him MiB had. His body was transported to what appeared to be the same place MiB's corpse was sent after going into the light. Only because Jack's soul wasn't ripped from his body (possibly because it was already in the Sideways), it did not kill him immediately which allowed him to retrace his steps to end it where it all began. It was good to see that the “fixer” was able to accomplish his biggest fix of his life before he died. I can't lie, it got a little dusty in my TV room on a couple occasions during the finale.

Other thoughts on components of the show:

The Desmond and Eloise Widmore/Hawking dynamic. I believe that she's upset because Desmond was speeding up the moving on process for the people he was closest to. Since time doesn't matter in the Sideways, individuals must find their own way to move on, but Desmond with his abilities pushed these individuals along, much to Eloise's disapproval. Although I think her disapproval may have something to do with "losing" her son, again. She's not done atoning for her actions just yet and likely wanted more "good" time with him.

Penny being in the church moving on was a little forced to me, but on the other hand I can see her playing a large role in Jack, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Sun and Aaron's lives as she rescued the Oceanic 6 after the helicopter crash landed in the ocean. She was also very important to Desmond and basically his reason for being for so long, so it's logical she's there for him. Logically though, if she was there, little Charlie should have also been there. I know when I move on, I'd like to think that both my wife and son would be there. Then again, it could be argued that the time Des spent on/off the island with Penny and the others was more crucial for him.

Ben obviously has come a long way towards redemption, but isn't quite there yet. Hurley's acknowledgment of his excellent work on the island and Locke's forgiveness will likely help him along the path a little more.

The island being underwater at the beginning of this season. This is what I'm having a harder time with, but by no means is it a deal-breaker for me. I'll wait and see what Cuse and Lindelof say about it, if they ever do, or if it's mentioned in the DVD complete collection.

As the credits rolled, the final scene of the wreckage on the beach, I think was an homage to an iconic part of the story. Without that crash, there couldn’t have been a show and filming the beach with the wreckage with no characters or music was a way to say “it’s all over.” I liked it, although I can see how some people may read it differently.

 

[packersfan]

I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5

Everyone can believe what they want, but that line of thinking was refuted in the episode by Christian. And if we're to believe the Lostpedia post, it's now been refuted by Bad Robot as well.Everything that happened on the island happened. That means Jack didn't die until the final scene; Kate, Sawyer, Claire etc. all left and died later. Again, people can believe what they want and come up with their own theories if they don't like what was presented. That's what makes FanFic popular. But the finale did spell a lot of things out with no ambiguity.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

LOL

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I thought that all the bomb blast did was bring the two time lines back together again. It brings them all back to the future.If they all died then none of the subsiquent actions (fighting Smokey, getting off the island) makes any real difference.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

The Desmond and Eloise Widmore/Hawking dynamic. I believe that she's upset because Desmond was speeding up the moving on process for the people he was closest to. Since time doesn't matter in the Sideways, individuals must find their own way to move on, but Desmond with his abilities pushed these individuals along, much to Eloise's disapproval. Although I think her disapproval may have something to do with "losing" her son, again. She's not done atoning for her actions just yet and likely wanted more "good" time with him.

It just occured to me that Eloise's repeated protestations to Desmond that he wasn't ready yet were in fact her saying that SHE wasn't ready yet - either to go herself or to let Daniel go.

 

[southeastjerome]

MAJOR PLOTLINES ON LOST THAT TURNED OUT TO NOT BE SO IMPORTANT (if at all)



1. "Walt is really special"

It was him or a manifestation of him who appeared to Locke when Locke was thinking of killing himself. This turned Locke around.

2. "Sayid kills a bunch of people for Ben"

Ben tells Sayid that one of Widmore's people was responsible for Nadia's death. He kills the guy holding Ben at gunpoint and then asks for more. Ben strings him along a bit because he's doing his work by offing Widmore's people.

3. "Mr. Eko"

The dude wanted off the show so they had to kill him.

4. "People on the island can't have babies"

5. "Faraday"

What about Faraday wasn't answered? He went back in time and was killed by his mother.

6. "Eloise Hawking"

Faraday's mother, not sure what else there was left hanging with her.

7. "Widmore v. Ben"

They were battling for control of the others. I agree though that they hyped the plot up and then it fell flat, but I don't think they really left much hanging.

8. "NOT PENNY'S BOAT"

It wasn't Penny's boat. It was Widmore's and he was trying to get "his" island back from Ben.

9. "You're a candidate"

Jacob selected candidates to come to the island to kill the MIB.

10. "Jacob brought people to the island"

see #9

11. The Dahrma initiative

Season 5 told you everything you want to know about Dharma including who they were and why they were there.

12. Jacob

In "Across the Sea", they showed him being born, what his purpose was on the island and what happened with he and his brother.

13. MIB

In "Across the Sea", they showed him being born, what his purpose was on the island and what happened with he and his brother.

14. The Numbers

They were the numbers that were assigned to the candidates written in the cave. Overall they were a common theme amongst the candidates and other losties.

15. The Button

Serves as a discharge for an electromagnetic source inside the swan station. Not pressing it caused an electromagnetic surge and Oceanic 815 to crash.

16. Time Travel

The island can move. Moving the wheel underneath the orchid allows the people on the island to travel through time. Not sure what you are missing here.

17. Richard not aging

Asked Jacob to make him ageless in return for him being an intermediary between him and the others.

18. Sawyers Daughter

Sawyer has a daughter. He had secks with Cassidy to make her. Did people really want more episodes about Sawyer's daughter?

19. Jacks Son

From his marriage with Juliet in the flash sideways, which was basically a world that the characters created themselves subconsciously as explained in the finale.

20. The Bomb

Re-watch "the Incident"

21. The Others

Everything you every wanted to know about the others

22. Taller Ghost Walt

Seen when Locke is about to shoot himself. This might have been a message from MIB or Jacob. Locke viewed it as Walt because it is someone who he would have listened to. He was taller because of hitting puberty

23. Room 23

The room where the others tried to brainwash Kyle and keep him away from Alex

24. The Statue

Taweret is the Egyptian God of fertility. The statue is holding an ankh which is an Egyptian symbol of the key to life. This is obvious symbolism to the island itself.

25. The tail section survivors

Ana Lucia, Eko, Bernard and others. I thought their story was explained pretty well.

26. Aaron being a devil child

Don't remember anyone referring to him as this. The psychic in season 1 told Claire that her child could be in danger. The psychic then set Claire up with a family in LA, which set their fate in motion to be on the island. Aaron, by all we were lead to believe ended up safe.

27. Oceanic 6 needs to lie

To keep the island safe

I think a lot of them were either answered or really not a huge deal the only one I wanted to know which seemed like a huge deal was number 4.

Like??

4 is the only one I do not have answers for. Although it seems to have something to do with how Jacob and MIB were born and then their mother was murdered.

 

[David Yudkin]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I thought that all the bomb blast did was bring the two time lines back together again. It brings them all back to the future.If they all died then none of the subsiquent actions (fighting Smokey, getting off the island) makes any real difference.

Which is where even more confusion sets in. Some of the Losties went back to 1977. Locke died in 2007. The bomb went off and everyone was on the island together again . . . but Locke was dead. The plane orginally crashed in 2004. The Ajira flight crashed in 2007. What would the island time then be post-bomb explosion? I would think 2007.If the flash sideways timeline never happened, then there is no point in trying to put a date on it. But some are saying the flash sideways stories did happen, while others are saying they didn't.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

Trying another take on the "no babies" thing.

The Island is apparently some sort of source of light to humanity. With the fertility statue out front, some ancient people apparently were paying homage to the life that the Island brings. A sort of Garden of Eden if you will.

But with the unleashing of evil via Smokey, the life giving properties of the Island are somehow tainted. I'm guessing the very existence of the Smoke Monster corrupts the life spawning process.

Now that Smokey's gone, life can return.

 

[GloryDaze]

I agree, that list is mostly totally explained. There are things that could have been expanded on, but they had to wrap the show up.

 

[packersfan]

I agree, that list is mostly totally explained. There are things that could have been expanded on, but they had to wrap the show up.

I think the producers answered a lot more questions than they're being given credit for. Like I posted before, if people don't like the answers, that's fine but there were answers provided.That said, I am in the camp as to wishing there had been an explanation about the no babies thing. Claire's baby was a major story arc of the first season (as well as Alex being kidnapped years earlier) and Juliet was tied into that as well and later Sun. To leave that one hanging was a mistake in my opinion.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

Which is where even more confusion sets in. Some of the Losties went back to 1977. Locke died in 2007. The bomb went off and everyone was on the island together again . . . but Locke was dead. The plane orginally crashed in 2004. The Ajira flight crashed in 2007. What would the island time then be post-bomb explosion? I would think 2007.If the flash sideways timeline never happened, then there is no point in trying to put a date on it. But some are saying the flash sideways stories did happen, while others are saying they didn't.

Locke was dead before he got to the island. He was being brought back to the island on the Ajira flight. So yes, I would think it would be 2007 - but I don't see what that even matters as long as they were all together at the same time.The flash sideways isn't so much a time as it is a place. And you're right that there's no point trying to put a date on it - Christain Shepherd said as much.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I thought that all the bomb blast did was bring the two time lines back together again. It brings them all back to the future.If they all died then none of the subsiquent actions (fighting Smokey, getting off the island) makes any real difference.

Which is where even more confusion sets in. Some of the Losties went back to 1977. Locke died in 2007. The bomb went off and everyone was on the island together again . . . but Locke was dead. The plane orginally crashed in 2004. The Ajira flight crashed in 2007. What would the island time then be post-bomb explosion? I would think 2007.If the flash sideways timeline never happened, then there is no point in trying to put a date on it. But some are saying the flash sideways stories did happen, while others are saying they didn't.

Flash sideways happened only as a collective construct of all the dead people, long after their deaths. "Some died before you, some long after" is what Christian said. Whoever is saying the flash sideways did happen "for real" need to rewatch the last 20 minutes of the episode.

 

[badmojo1006]

Found on Lostpedia, this is from someone who works for Bad Robot:

First ...

The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

I buy it.

Same here.

I like this except the bolded portion. Penny and Desmond were not in Season 1 and they were in the church

 

[Masked Vigilante]

I like this except the bolded portion. Penny and Desmond were not in Season 1 and they were in the church

Juliet was there because of Sawyer. Libby was there because of Hurley. Desmond wasn't in season 1 but after season 2 he basically became a "Lostie". Plus it would have been odd for him to have skipped out on the reunion considering he's the one who organized it.

 

[packersfan]

Ben not being in the church didn't bother me. His conversation with Locke (which was superb) told us that Ben knew he had more to do before he could be redeemed. Probably A LOT more given all that he's done.

 

[KGB]

Somebody explain this alternate reality thing to me.

Oh...and I'm raising the on the whole repairing the aircrafts landing gear hydraulic system with freaking duck-tape.

Did you not see Mythbusters, duct tape special, That stuff can do it all.

http://www.armyparatrooper.org/dropzone/sh...-Tape-in-Alaska

 

[bostonfred]

One of the interesting comments in the finale - "those were Jacob's rules". Maybe Jacob made all the rules, including the rule that the MIB couldn't kill him, when his mother made him like her in the water ceremony thingy. Maybe the only people who could come to the island were people who were invited. Or maybe a young Jacob, understanding what his mother had done, decided that nobody could have children on the island. All of those seem like reasonable answers to the no babies thing.

 

[packersfan]

One other thing about the scene with Locke and Ben that I liked was it gave us the real Locke one last time. Sideways Locke wasn't real and he'd been dead for awhile. I thought it was great to have Locke back one last time. On top of the great acting from O'Quinn and Emerson and the strong dialogue I just really liked seeing Locke again.

 

[Steve Polychronopolous]

Something I'm not able to figure out:

There was a Jack centric episode during season 4 (the one where Kate and Jack are living together and raising Aaron). During the episode, Jack is working late one night, when he hears the smoke detector going off down the hall. He gets up and walks down the hall, gets up on a chair to pull out the battery and when he turns around Christian is sitting there.

Based on what we know now, how was Smokey (manifested as Christian) off the island?

 

[Statorama]

My only real question was who the hell was Wallace (name in the cave not scratched off)

 

[Dr. No]

One other thing about the scene with Locke and Ben that I liked was it gave us the real Locke one last time. Sideways Locke wasn't real and he'd been dead for awhile. I thought it was great to have Locke back one last time. On top of the great acting from O'Quinn and Emerson and the strong dialogue I just really liked seeing Locke again.

The Jimmy Kimmel Lost program did reveal that Terry O'Quinn didn't know he was the smoke monster when he was playing that role after getting back to the island initially.. and I think the acting reflected that.Kind of disappointing actually.. I think if he would've acted consistently through season 5 and 6 in that role it would've taken better. But certainly not the actor's fault.

 

[packersfan]

One other thing about the scene with Locke and Ben that I liked was it gave us the real Locke one last time. Sideways Locke wasn't real and he'd been dead for awhile. I thought it was great to have Locke back one last time. On top of the great acting from O'Quinn and Emerson and the strong dialogue I just really liked seeing Locke again.

The Jimmy Kimmel Lost program did reveal that Terry O'Quinn didn't know he was the smoke monster when he was playing that role after getting back to the island initially.. and I think the acting reflected that.Kind of disappointing actually.. I think if he would've acted consistently through season 5 and 6 in that role it would've taken better. But certainly not the actor's fault.

I had read that previously in EW. Didn't phase me. I think O'Quinn has been outstanding from the start of the season to the end and I thought his work last season even before the big reveal at the end was typically superb. Even if he was just playing him as a more confident John Locke it worked. Regardless of what direction the writers were going in, O'Quinn was nailing the performance.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

Something I'm not able to figure out:

There was a Jack centric episode during season 4 (the one where Kate and Jack are living together and raising Aaron). During the episode, Jack is working late one night, when he hears the smoke detector going off down the hall. He gets up and walks down the hall, gets up on a chair to pull out the battery and when he turns around Christian is sitting there.

Based on what we know now, how was Smokey (manifested as Christian) off the island?

He didn't really see him. He wasn't really there. It was a figment of his imagination. I don't think that was Smokey.Why? I don't know. Christian was always a shadow over Jack's shoulder.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Something I'm not able to figure out:There was a Jack centric episode during season 4 (the one where Kate and Jack are living together and raising Aaron). During the episode, Jack is working late one night, when he hears the smoke detector going off down the hall. He gets up and walks down the hall, gets up on a chair to pull out the battery and when he turns around Christian is sitting there. Based on what we know now, how was Smokey (manifested as Christian) off the island?

It might have been Jacob trying to lead Jack back onto the island.

 

[sho nuff]

Ben not being in the church didn't bother me. His conversation with Locke (which was superb) told us that Ben knew he had more to do before he could be redeemed. Probably A LOT more given all that he's done.

Just about every scene with those two was so well done.