*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (1 Viewer)

[bostonfred]

Juliet was already dying when she blew up the bomb, and while she survived the bomb, she died of those injuries. I linked it above.

Yes, but he's saying his theory is everyone actually died in the blast and the rest was ?.

Right. Although I misunderstood your earlier post at first, I think you and I agree. That didn't happen. We saw that that didn't happen, and we were told that that didn't happen.

 

[packersfan]

Yes, but he's saying his theory is everyone actually died in the blast and the rest was ?.

And that theory is directly refuted in the episode. It's clearly stated that the events on the island happened. That was real. It was the Sideways world that was artificially created by the survivors themselves.

 

[Porkchop Express]

Why did they show people in flash sideways if they were already dead, especially if we are to believe that the flash sideways were from 2004 when we know that they were already alive in 2007?

Because it was a world all of them created together. It didn't matter when they died; what mattered was all of them were needed to be together. I thought that was very self-explanatory at the end.

Except the explanation wasnt consistent with itself.

 

[The Dude]

I think it was a little weird that island Des was able to exchange consciousness with afterlife Des.

Just a point. A little weird is par for the course.

 

[Native]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I also think this is one of the bigger questions unanswered. I think Jack and Faraday were essentially wrong about the incident, and nothing was reset. As a result, I think Miles said it, they actually caused the thing that they wanted to prevent and caused the need for the button to be pushed. Although, this is mostly my rationalization only. I'd like to check out the first ep of this season, but I'm wondering if the wreckage they woke up to in the present was actually the same wreckage that was caused by Desmond turning the failsafe key. Otherwise, there would be a gap in time where the hatch was never built, Desmond never there, etc.

This. They didn't destroy anything with the bomb. The bomb simply caused them to flash from 1977 to 2007. The wreckage we see in the scene in 2007 was the result of Desmond turning the failsafe key, NOT Juliette detonating the bomb. While the Losties flashed, the Dharma Initiative continued business as usual back in 1977, constructing the Swan and creating the button that would ensure the electromagentism is kept in check. To me its clear that noone died when the bomb was detonated except for Juliette, probably because she took a tremendous fall and was exposed to the electromagentism from a close difference.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I think it was a little weird that island Des was able to exchange consciousness with afterlife Des.

Just a point. A little weird is par for the course.

"You're special. The rules don't apply to you."

 

[boubucarow]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

I watch Lost throughout and gave up on 24. It wasn't because of one being more the thinking person's show. While I sometimes participate in Lost discussion, I was always way more concerned with characters I cared about. In 24 after a while (maybe season 4, if forget), there was Jack and maybe Chloe and I couldn't care less about what happened to anyone else. In Lost, I wanted to see what happened to almost the entire cast.

 

[The Dude]

Why did they show people in flash sideways if they were already dead, especially if we are to believe that the flash sideways were from 2004 when we know that they were already alive in 2007?

Because it was a world all of them created together. It didn't matter when they died; what mattered was all of them were needed to be together. I thought that was very self-explanatory at the end.

Except the explanation wasnt consistent with itself.

Can somebody more nerdy than me post Christian's exact words

 

[Nick Vermeil]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

To be fair, viewers of all shows are smarter than Heroes viewers. A super hero who cries tears of death? Jesus...

 

[The Dude]

I think it was a little weird that island Des was able to exchange consciousness with afterlife Des.

Just a point. A little weird is par for the course.

"You're special. The rules don't apply to you."

I get it - but it's kind of a "Get out of Jail Free" card, isn't it?

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I think it was a little weird that island Des was able to exchange consciousness with afterlife Des.

Just a point. A little weird is par for the course.

"You're special. The rules don't apply to you."

I get it - but it's kind of a "Get out of Jail Free" card, isn't it?

 

[bostonfred]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

You watched it more recently, and remember more of it. That's not really a statement of how smart you are. People who watched this show in real time, with a week between episodes and sometimes an extra week or four for no apparent reason, and sometimes midseason hiatus, don't remember everything that happened. Especially the things during the slow or hard-to-believe parts of the show. The nuclear bomb timeline strained credulity for a lot of us, and I know that I checked out a little during that time, especially with the whole, Sawyer's in love with Kate and Locke's in charge, wait, no, Saywer's in love with Juliette and Jack's in charge, wait, no, Sawyer's mad at Jack, or actually, Sawyer's just mad that Juliette's gone and wants to leave the island. Waiting a week or more between episodes like that - or waiting a full offseason for the show to come back - when their motives were constantly changing and the show made it clear that nothing was as it seemed made it really difficult to care who was mad at who, let alone keep up with it. That was the worst part of seasons 4-6 to me: the feeling that none of the stuff we saw on screen mattered, because no matter what they showed us, you were always fairly sure there was some huge plot twist coming and it was all a trick. Again and again people changed allegiances, or you found out about a second island, or you found out that there were others, and then there were other others with a secret temple guy, or linus worked for jacob but really for the smoke monster and alex wasn't alex but locke was dead but then he's back but now he's the smoke monster and then the smoke monster is actually the man in black who you didn't even know existed until the end of season five even though he was one of the most important characters in the show but then he didn't even really get on screen in season six much, either, because he was locke, and then jacob was dead but he wasn't really and he could make people immortal but they didn't explain it. It was all so hokie for a while that it wasn't just hard to keep track of, and it wasn't just hard to care - the real issue was that you kept looking around the corner to see how things would change again. People went from caring about anything on screen to being more interested in the theories because the writers made it clear throughout the show - and in the ending - that the stuff happening on screen could change on a dime and render whole plotlines nearly irrelevant. So while it's nice that you're implicitly congratulating yourself for being smarter than Yudkin, the only really smart thing you did was wait to start watching a critically acclaimed series until the final season, so you could see it in a row. It's great that you remember this stuff better, but even if the storylines have neat conclusions, the writers have to accept some of the blame for the overall confusion after the show ended.

 

[toshiba]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

You watched it more recently, and remember more of it. That's not really a statement of how smart you are.

Sorry I was not saying I was smart, but Lost viewers are not as smart as they think they are.

 

[Dr. No]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

You watched it more recently, and remember more of it. That's not really a statement of how smart you are.

Sorry I was not saying I was smart, but Lost viewers are not as smart as they think they are.

well most people aren't as smart as they think they are.so you could say that is true of any show's viewership

 

[menobrown]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I also think this is one of the bigger questions unanswered. I think Jack and Faraday were essentially wrong about the incident, and nothing was reset. As a result, I think Miles said it, they actually caused the thing that they wanted to prevent and caused the need for the button to be pushed. Although, this is mostly my rationalization only. I'd like to check out the first ep of this season, but I'm wondering if the wreckage they woke up to in the present was actually the same wreckage that was caused by Desmond turning the failsafe key. Otherwise, there would be a gap in time where the hatch was never built, Desmond never there, etc.

This. They didn't destroy anything with the bomb. The bomb simply caused them to flash from 1977 to 2007. The wreckage we see in the scene in 2007 was the result of Desmond turning the failsafe key, NOT Juliette detonating the bomb. While the Losties flashed, the Dharma Initiative continued business as usual back in 1977, constructing the Swan and creating the button that would ensure the electromagentism is kept in check. To me its clear that noone died when the bomb was detonated except for Juliette, probably because she took a tremendous fall and was exposed to the electromagentism from a close difference.

I don't know about that. Before she died Juliet told Sawyer it worked. How did she know that and what worked? The flash sideways also did not begin until the bomb exploded. If you believe the sideways world was purgatory and that the show was keeping the timeline intacts the sideways purgatory did not start until the bomb went off. This is the main reason I've also wondered if they all did not die when the bomb went off.

 

[Rooster]

Found on Lostpedia, this is from someone who works for Bad Robot:

First ...The Island:It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...Now...Sideways World:Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

I buy it.

It sounded nice and helped sway my opinion of the series in a more positive way, but wasn't it Richard who recruited a young Ben to the others and lead him to killing the Dharma folks? Richard is an agent of Jacob, so why would Richard lead a young Ben to either kill Jacob's candidates (if Dharma really were candidates) or believe that the MIB was Jacob?

 

[apalmer]

Reading through the last few pages and a question came to mind that I haven't seen yet...How did Christian know so much about what the Sideways world was and why it was there? How would he come to all the knowledge that he dropped on Jack in the church? Was he "awakened" earlier and stuck around until Jack showed up?

A couple possible answers, but one is that he died earliest, so he figured it out first. Similarly, Charlie died before the rest of them, and had his flash earlier, too. Another possibility is that the island had something to do with it. It's an interesting question, but I don't think it's a necessary part of the story.

Another possible answer would be that the construct itself provides you with a guide, and that person is the person who was most important to you in life.

Not to mention that he was, after all, the Christian Shepherd. Who better to explain the afterlife?

 

[shuke]

I think it helps to think of the events on the island and the events in the flash-sideways as consecutive rather than concurrent.

Has anyone actually alluded to thinking of them as the latter?

For about 3/4 of the season I thought they were concurrent. I suppose I'm the only one of 15 million viewers that thought that way though, so your point is well taken.

I thought you meant people were still thinking that way after the finale.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

To be fair, viewers of all shows are smarter than Heroes viewers. A super hero who cries tears of death? Jesus...

what if you watch lost and heroes?

 

[boubucarow]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

To be fair, viewers of all shows are smarter than Heroes viewers. A super hero who cries tears of death? Jesus...

what if you watch lost and heroes?

I for one was more confused by Heroes than I ever was by Lost. My wife and I forced ourselves to watch Heroes til the end.

 

[packersfan]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

To be fair, viewers of all shows are smarter than Heroes viewers. A super hero who cries tears of death? Jesus...

what if you watch lost and heroes?

I for one was more confused by Heroes than I ever was by Lost. My wife and I forced ourselves to watch Heroes til the end.

I watched all of "Heroes" too. Great first season marred by a weak finale. Show went downhill after that. What a waste of great potential.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I also think this is one of the bigger questions unanswered. I think Jack and Faraday were essentially wrong about the incident, and nothing was reset. As a result, I think Miles said it, they actually caused the thing that they wanted to prevent and caused the need for the button to be pushed. Although, this is mostly my rationalization only. I'd like to check out the first ep of this season, but I'm wondering if the wreckage they woke up to in the present was actually the same wreckage that was caused by Desmond turning the failsafe key. Otherwise, there would be a gap in time where the hatch was never built, Desmond never there, etc.

This. They didn't destroy anything with the bomb. The bomb simply caused them to flash from 1977 to 2007. The wreckage we see in the scene in 2007 was the result of Desmond turning the failsafe key, NOT Juliette detonating the bomb. While the Losties flashed, the Dharma Initiative continued business as usual back in 1977, constructing the Swan and creating the button that would ensure the electromagentism is kept in check. To me its clear that noone died when the bomb was detonated except for Juliette, probably because she took a tremendous fall and was exposed to the electromagentism from a close difference.

I don't know about that. Before she died Juliet told Sawyer it worked. How did she know that and what worked? The flash sideways also did not begin until the bomb exploded. If you believe the sideways world was purgatory and that the show was keeping the timeline intacts the sideways purgatory did not start until the bomb went off. This is the main reason I've also wondered if they all did not die when the bomb went off.

I believe she told him it didn't work. Link of that scene was posted yesterday.

 

[Black Box]

Lapidus, Miles and Richard were on a plane trying to take off from the island - the plane they had originally planned to blow up. They were about to take off when Sawyer flagged them down. The island was falling apart, Jack put the light bulb back in, and the plane took off. He stumbled out, fell down in the bamboo a short distance from the light cave, and he looked up to see their plane take off while Vincent came over and laid down next to him. Jack's eye slowly closes, and the dog started gnawing at his dying flesh. You don't remember any of this?

 

[Nick Vermeil]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

To be fair, viewers of all shows are smarter than Heroes viewers. A super hero who cries tears of death? Jesus...

what if you watch lost and heroes?

You're half an idiot I guess. I will agree with Packersfan that it was a solid start that just fizzled big time.

 

[shuke]

So I'm simply not buying this nonsense about it being a character driven show all along.

Maybe you missed all the flashbacks in the first 4 seasons, the ones that were a huge part of the story and had nothing to do with island. You remember those, right? Right?

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

I think the writers were trying to tell us that this story is really about the people and while all of the other crazy stuff happened - it was really in the end about the people.

Dharma

Smoky

4. 8. 15. 16 23. 42

The Hatch

Jacob

The others

Were all really small pieces to the overall package. This story was about Jack, Locke, Hurley Sawyer, Kate etc............

They did a wonderful job getting most of us to buy in and really care about the characters.

In the end you don't care why the numbers are important, or how Smoky could become Smoky by getting thrown down the well or why the protector of the island is who it is.

 

[shuke]

I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5

Everyone can believe what they want, but that line of thinking was refuted in the episode by Christian. And if we're to believe the Lostpedia post, it's now been refuted by Bad Robot as well.

While I liked the writeup that was posted, I highly doubt it was written by someone at Bad Robot.

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

So I'm simply not buying this nonsense about it being a character driven show all along.

Maybe you missed all the flashbacks in the first 4 seasons, the ones that were a huge part of the story and had nothing to do with island. You remember those, right? Right?

AgreedProbably the most genius thing about the finale is that you don't realize that its all about the people until right at the end.

 

[Statler & Waldorf]

I'm only on page 99 so I don't know if this has been mentioned. But after they set off that nuclear explosion from Jughead and Sawyer found Juliet, didn't she say, "It worked"? That's why I don't think the Island was real. Or if it was, then the sideways world was real. Why else would she say, it worked? That scene and quote aren't random. It was put in place knowing full well the direction they were going in.

My take.....they were all dead BEFORE they even got on the plane. But I've also bounced around from theory to theory as well. And they all fit and all have their loop holes.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I'm only on page 99 so I don't know if this has been mentioned. But after they set off that nuclear explosion from Jughead and Sawyer found Juliet, didn't she say, "It worked"? That's why I don't think the Island was real. Or if it was, then the sideways world was real. Why else would she say, it worked? That scene and quote aren't random. It was put in place knowing full well the direction they were going in.My take.....they were all dead BEFORE they even got on the plane. But I've also bounced around from theory to theory as well. And they all fit and all have their loop holes.

Did she say "it worked" when they were alive, or did Miles "hear" her say "it worked" after she was dead?

 

[Sack-Religious]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I also think this is one of the bigger questions unanswered. I think Jack and Faraday were essentially wrong about the incident, and nothing was reset. As a result, I think Miles said it, they actually caused the thing that they wanted to prevent and caused the need for the button to be pushed. Although, this is mostly my rationalization only. I'd like to check out the first ep of this season, but I'm wondering if the wreckage they woke up to in the present was actually the same wreckage that was caused by Desmond turning the failsafe key. Otherwise, there would be a gap in time where the hatch was never built, Desmond never there, etc.

This. They didn't destroy anything with the bomb. The bomb simply caused them to flash from 1977 to 2007. The wreckage we see in the scene in 2007 was the result of Desmond turning the failsafe key, NOT Juliette detonating the bomb. While the Losties flashed, the Dharma Initiative continued business as usual back in 1977, constructing the Swan and creating the button that would ensure the electromagentism is kept in check. To me its clear that noone died when the bomb was detonated except for Juliette, probably because she took a tremendous fall and was exposed to the electromagentism from a close difference.

I'm not sure about that. I agree that they didn't destroy anything with the bomb and that it caused a shift of everyone to 2007. If you look at screenshots of what the Swan Station looked like after Des turned the failsafe it looks different than what happened after Juliet detonated Jughead. The hole Sawyer climed down to try to extricate her had remnants of the crane and other construction materials that weren't present after Des turned the failsafe. That's just me though, I could be dead wrong.

 

[packersfan]

I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5

Everyone can believe what they want, but that line of thinking was refuted in the episode by Christian. And if we're to believe the Lostpedia post, it's now been refuted by Bad Robot as well.

While I liked the writeup that was posted, I highly doubt it was written by someone at Bad Robot.

I agree it's best to treat that post with some suspicion in terms of its origin at the present time.

 

[shuke]

Or maybe a young Jacob, understanding what his mother had done, decided that nobody could have children on the island.

I like it.

 

[packersfan]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

To be fair, viewers of all shows are smarter than Heroes viewers. A super hero who cries tears of death? Jesus...

what if you watch lost and heroes?

You're half an idiot I guess. I will agree with Packersfan that it was a solid start that just fizzled big time.

I thought the show was in trouble when it ended with "Oh Sylar's not really dead after all." Sadly, that was just the beginning of a series of (in my opinion) poor storyline decisions that sank the show.

 

[Native]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I also think this is one of the bigger questions unanswered. I think Jack and Faraday were essentially wrong about the incident, and nothing was reset. As a result, I think Miles said it, they actually caused the thing that they wanted to prevent and caused the need for the button to be pushed. Although, this is mostly my rationalization only. I'd like to check out the first ep of this season, but I'm wondering if the wreckage they woke up to in the present was actually the same wreckage that was caused by Desmond turning the failsafe key. Otherwise, there would be a gap in time where the hatch was never built, Desmond never there, etc.

This. They didn't destroy anything with the bomb. The bomb simply caused them to flash from 1977 to 2007. The wreckage we see in the scene in 2007 was the result of Desmond turning the failsafe key, NOT Juliette detonating the bomb. While the Losties flashed, the Dharma Initiative continued business as usual back in 1977, constructing the Swan and creating the button that would ensure the electromagentism is kept in check. To me its clear that noone died when the bomb was detonated except for Juliette, probably because she took a tremendous fall and was exposed to the electromagentism from a close difference.

I don't know about that. Before she died Juliet told Sawyer it worked. How did she know that and what worked? The flash sideways also did not begin until the bomb exploded. If you believe the sideways world was purgatory and that the show was keeping the timeline intacts the sideways purgatory did not start until the bomb went off. This is the main reason I've also wondered if they all did not die when the bomb went off.

1) Hey - Just looked it up on Lostpedia. This is what it says:

Out of the white, Kate's eye opens. Upon awakening, she nearly falls from the tree branch she's on, which is a considerable distance from the ground. She climbs back onto the branch. Her hearing is muffled. She yells and then shakes her head and messes with her ears but her hearing does not return. She climbs down out of the tree. The only sounds are those of her breathing, a high pitched ringing sound and her shuffling down the tree. She yells, "Hello?" and her hearing finally returns. She finds Miles who is also having trouble hearing, "I can't hear you! Are your ears ringing?" and he is talking louder than normal. They trek back to the Hatch to find it completely obliterated, as it was after Desmond turned the fail-safe key three years before - making it clear they are now in the present time.

2) As for how they all didnt die in the blast - who knows? Maybe the electromagentism in the area muted the explosion from the blast? 3) Juliette's "it worked" refers to their conversation in the flash sideways. If you remember, when Sawyer first finds Juliette amidst the rubble, she begins mumbling and says "Lets get coffee sometime. We can go Dutch". She also tells Sawyer (via Miles) that "it worked". In the finale, when they meet at the hospital in the flash sideways, they reitterate the exact same conversation about coffee. When Saweyer's candy bar gets stuck, Juliette tells her to unplug the candy machine. When he does, and the bar falls out, she says "it worked". Seems like she was stuck between two worlds on her deathbed and was able to see that her and Sawer will eventually be together.

 

[bostonfred]

One thing I just realized about Farraday playing piano at the concert and Jack not having a kid.

In the sideways world, Jack was with the wrong woman - he had a kid with Juliet, but they broke up. That was wrong, because he was supposed to be with Kate. But he watched his kid play piano, just like that other dude from the temple watched his kid play at the recital. Because that's what parents do - they see their kids perform and they are proud of them.

Farraday playing at the concert was about him finally getting that love from his parents, instead of his father, who saw him as a tool to get back to the island, and his mother, who shot him. And Eloise didn't want that to happen in the sideways world, because the sideways world was her only chance to be the loving parent she couldn't be in the time travel paradox island world.

Meanwhile, Jack's father talking to him at the end was an acknowledgement that he had been at his son's recital all along - that he'd watched him at the island, and seen him save the world, and he was there to watch. That's a really central theme for a show with all of these father issues.

 

[Native]

I'm only on page 99 so I don't know if this has been mentioned. But after they set off that nuclear explosion from Jughead and Sawyer found Juliet, didn't she say, "It worked"? That's why I don't think the Island was real. Or if it was, then the sideways world was real. Why else would she say, it worked? That scene and quote aren't random. It was put in place knowing full well the direction they were going in.My take.....they were all dead BEFORE they even got on the plane. But I've also bounced around from theory to theory as well. And they all fit and all have their loop holes.

Did she say "it worked" when they were alive, or did Miles "hear" her say "it worked" after she was dead?

Miles told Sawyer this after she died.

 

[packersfan]

I thought Jack's Sideways world was perfect. He had a son and repaired that relationship, thus being a better father to his son than Christian had been to him. He also was able to "fix" Locke whereas in the real world his failure to believe in Locke is what drove Locke to attempting suicide. In reality, he could never "fix" or undo that mistake.

With the exception of a happy marriage, Jack's Sidways world fixed the prominent issues which plagued him in reality.

 

[Native]

Which gets us back to what I posted several pages ago . . . who died and when. I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 (which I believe would have been 1977). If a nuke went off on the island, I suspect all the people would be toast and not just Juliet. At that point, IMO ALL the people on the island died, but I would have to rewatch everything again to see if that is a feasible theory.

I also think this is one of the bigger questions unanswered. I think Jack and Faraday were essentially wrong about the incident, and nothing was reset. As a result, I think Miles said it, they actually caused the thing that they wanted to prevent and caused the need for the button to be pushed. Although, this is mostly my rationalization only. I'd like to check out the first ep of this season, but I'm wondering if the wreckage they woke up to in the present was actually the same wreckage that was caused by Desmond turning the failsafe key. Otherwise, there would be a gap in time where the hatch was never built, Desmond never there, etc.

This. They didn't destroy anything with the bomb. The bomb simply caused them to flash from 1977 to 2007. The wreckage we see in the scene in 2007 was the result of Desmond turning the failsafe key, NOT Juliette detonating the bomb. While the Losties flashed, the Dharma Initiative continued business as usual back in 1977, constructing the Swan and creating the button that would ensure the electromagentism is kept in check. To me its clear that noone died when the bomb was detonated except for Juliette, probably because she took a tremendous fall and was exposed to the electromagentism from a close difference.

I don't know about that. Before she died Juliet told Sawyer it worked. How did she know that and what worked? The flash sideways also did not begin until the bomb exploded. If you believe the sideways world was purgatory and that the show was keeping the timeline intacts the sideways purgatory did not start until the bomb went off. This is the main reason I've also wondered if they all did not die when the bomb went off.

I believe she told him it didn't work. Link of that scene was posted yesterday.

From Lostpedia:After she is buried, Sawyer orders Miles to communicate with her, in order to find out what important news she wanted to give him. After a brief commune with Juliet, during which engine and turbulence sounds from the Alternate 815 are heard, Miles tells Sawyer her message: "It worked."

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I'm only on page 99 so I don't know if this has been mentioned. But after they set off that nuclear explosion from Jughead and Sawyer found Juliet, didn't she say, "It worked"? That's why I don't think the Island was real. Or if it was, then the sideways world was real. Why else would she say, it worked? That scene and quote aren't random. It was put in place knowing full well the direction they were going in.My take.....they were all dead BEFORE they even got on the plane. But I've also bounced around from theory to theory as well. And they all fit and all have their loop holes.

Did she say "it worked" when they were alive, or did Miles "hear" her say "it worked" after she was dead?

Miles told Sawyer this after she died.

That's what I thought. It worked in the sense that it got them back to 2007, allowing the events of season 6 to happen and for Julliette and Sawyer to be re-united in the afterlife. Which she knew because she was dead and in a place where time doesnt exist.

 

[Statler & Waldorf]

I'm only on page 99 so I don't know if this has been mentioned. But after they set off that nuclear explosion from Jughead and Sawyer found Juliet, didn't she say, "It worked"? That's why I don't think the Island was real. Or if it was, then the sideways world was real. Why else would she say, it worked? That scene and quote aren't random. It was put in place knowing full well the direction they were going in.My take.....they were all dead BEFORE they even got on the plane. But I've also bounced around from theory to theory as well. And they all fit and all have their loop holes.

Did she say "it worked" when they were alive, or did Miles "hear" her say "it worked" after she was dead?

Miles told Sawyer this after she died.

That's what I thought. It worked in the sense that it got them back to 2007, allowing the events of season 6 to happen and for Julliette and Sawyer to be re-united in the afterlife. Which she knew because she was dead and in a place where time doesnt exist.

I just read Native's other entry and both of you make perfect sense. I gotta watch the last couple of seasons again I think.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

3) Juliette's "it worked" refers to their conversation in the flash sideways. If you remember, when Sawyer first finds Juliette amidst the rubble, she begins mumbling and says "Lets get coffee sometime. We can go Dutch". She also tells Sawyer (via Miles) that "it worked". In the finale, when they meet at the hospital in the flash sideways, they reitterate the exact same conversation about coffee. When Saweyer's candy bar gets stuck, Juliette tells her to unplug the candy machine. When he does, and the bar falls out, she says "it worked". Seems like she was stuck between two worlds on her deathbed and was able to see that her and Sawer will eventually be together.

Exactly. When she was with Sawyer in the pit, she says "It didn't work. You're still here..." or some such thing.

 

[Sack-Religious]

I'm only on page 99 so I don't know if this has been mentioned. But after they set off that nuclear explosion from Jughead and Sawyer found Juliet, didn't she say, "It worked"? That's why I don't think the Island was real. Or if it was, then the sideways world was real. Why else would she say, it worked? That scene and quote aren't random. It was put in place knowing full well the direction they were going in.My take.....they were all dead BEFORE they even got on the plane. But I've also bounced around from theory to theory as well. And they all fit and all have their loop holes.

Did she say "it worked" when they were alive, or did Miles "hear" her say "it worked" after she was dead?

When Sawyer forced Miles to "talk" to Juliet, that's when Miles said she said "it worked."

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

After she is buried, Sawyer orders Miles to communicate with her, in order to find out what important news she wanted to give him. After a brief commune with Juliet, during which engine and turbulence sounds from the Alternate 815 are heard, Miles tells Sawyer her message: "It worked."

By "worked" I think she meant that they were ultimately able to be together albeit in the "afterlife".That was the something "really, really important" she was trying to tell Sawyer the moment before she died.

 

[Sack-Religious]

I think the characters died in the bomb explosion at the end of season 5

Everyone can believe what they want, but that line of thinking was refuted in the episode by Christian. And if we're to believe the Lostpedia post, it's now been refuted by Bad Robot as well.

While I liked the writeup that was posted, I highly doubt it was written by someone at Bad Robot.

Maybe this is too "grammar police" of me, but I'd like to think that an employee of Bad Robot would know how to spell main characters names by now.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Or maybe a young Jacob, understanding what his mother had done, decided that nobody could have children on the island.

I like it.

On the surface, so do I. But, it goes deeper to children being conceived and born on the island. Both Sun and Claire were OK because they conceived off the island (similar to how Jacob's biological mother did?). But, you've also got Miles and Ethan who were both apparently conceived and born on the island somewhere in the 1970's. Some other people have posited that "The Incident" was what caused the problems.Perhaps what BFred said is true though and DHARMA mothers had to go off-island to give birth to their children. Was there an episode that had something to that effect alluded to? Or am I confused.

 

[Sack-Religious]

One thing I just realized about Farraday playing piano at the concert and Jack not having a kid.

In the sideways world, Jack was with the wrong woman - he had a kid with Juliet, but they broke up. That was wrong, because he was supposed to be with Kate. But he watched his kid play piano, just like that other dude from the temple watched his kid play at the recital. Because that's what parents do - they see their kids perform and they are proud of them.

Farraday playing at the concert was about him finally getting that love from his parents, instead of his father, who saw him as a tool to get back to the island, and his mother, who shot him. And Eloise didn't want that to happen in the sideways world, because the sideways world was her only chance to be the loving parent she couldn't be in the time travel paradox island world.

Meanwhile, Jack's father talking to him at the end was an acknowledgement that he had been at his son's recital all along - that he'd watched him at the island, and seen him save the world, and he was there to watch. That's a really central theme for a show with all of these father issues.

I really like all of this, especially the bolded part.

 

[RocStar]

I also think this is one of the bigger questions unanswered. I think Jack and Faraday were essentially wrong about the incident, and nothing was reset. As a result, I think Miles said it, they actually caused the thing that they wanted to prevent and caused the need for the button to be pushed. Although, this is mostly my rationalization only. I'd like to check out the first ep of this season, but I'm wondering if the wreckage they woke up to in the present was actually the same wreckage that was caused by Desmond turning the failsafe key. Otherwise, there would be a gap in time where the hatch was never built, Desmond never there, etc.

This. They didn't destroy anything with the bomb. The bomb simply caused them to flash from 1977 to 2007. The wreckage we see in the scene in 2007 was the result of Desmond turning the failsafe key, NOT Juliette detonating the bomb. While the Losties flashed, the Dharma Initiative continued business as usual back in 1977, constructing the Swan and creating the button that would ensure the electromagentism is kept in check. To me its clear that noone died when the bomb was detonated except for Juliette, probably because she took a tremendous fall and was exposed to the electromagentism from a close difference.

I don't know about that. Before she died Juliet told Sawyer it worked. How did she know that and what worked? The flash sideways also did not begin until the bomb exploded. If you believe the sideways world was purgatory and that the show was keeping the timeline intacts the sideways purgatory did not start until the bomb went off. This is the main reason I've also wondered if they all did not die when the bomb went off.

1) Hey - Just looked it up on Lostpedia. This is what it says:

Out of the white, Kate's eye opens. Upon awakening, she nearly falls from the tree branch she's on, which is a considerable distance from the ground. She climbs back onto the branch. Her hearing is muffled. She yells and then shakes her head and messes with her ears but her hearing does not return. She climbs down out of the tree. The only sounds are those of her breathing, a high pitched ringing sound and her shuffling down the tree. She yells, "Hello?" and her hearing finally returns. She finds Miles who is also having trouble hearing, "I can't hear you! Are your ears ringing?" and he is talking louder than normal. They trek back to the Hatch to find it completely obliterated, as it was after Desmond turned the fail-safe key three years before - making it clear they are now in the present time.

2) As for how they all didnt die in the blast - who knows? Maybe the electromagentism in the area muted the explosion from the blast? 3) Juliette's "it worked" refers to their conversation in the flash sideways. If you remember, when Sawyer first finds Juliette amidst the rubble, she begins mumbling and says "Lets get coffee sometime. We can go Dutch". She also tells Sawyer (via Miles) that "it worked". In the finale, when they meet at the hospital in the flash sideways, they reitterate the exact same conversation about coffee. When Saweyer's candy bar gets stuck, Juliette tells her to unplug the candy machine. When he does, and the bar falls out, she says "it worked". Seems like she was stuck between two worlds on her deathbed and was able to see that her and Sawer will eventually be together.

Although a quote from Lostpedia is just some fan with essentially the same rationalization as mine, I am going to accept this answer (that the gang had been teleported by electromagnatism into wreckage of the hatch created by Desmond) and put this series to rest.Great ride for the most part. The good outweighed the bad.

Serious question for some of the haters in here: What series lasting four seasons or more built an entire complex mythology and then tied up all of its questions in a more satisfying way? I am looking for a new DVD show. (Please don't say BSG, as Lost tied up 100x better than that garbage finale.)

 

[Tough As Nails]

Serious question for some of the haters in here: What series lasting four seasons or more built an entire complex mythology and then tied up all of its questions in a more satisfying way? I am looking for a new DVD show. (Please don't say BSG, as Lost tied up 100x better than that garbage finale.)

If you're going to talk about recent shows...start with:The WireThe ShieldSopranosSix Feet UnderWest Wing I would also recommend catching up on Breaking Bad or Mad Men. Lots of older ones out there too. Check other threads...this gets talked about 'round here quite a bit.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I am looking for a new DVD show. (Please don't say BSG, as Lost tied up 100x better than that garbage finale.)

It was awesome.