*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (2 Viewers)

[SuperJohn96]

Curse you Sack...I guess that's why you're member #4.

How did you get that number anyway?

 

[Sack-Religious]

Curse you Sack...I guess that's why you're member #4.How did you get that number anyway?

By being the #1 Canadian on the boards. "Won" it in Ken Maxwell's charity lottery.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

Well...duct tape holding or not...I said to myself...why in the hell are they taking the plane anyway...why not the boat? Obviously they wanted that drama of the flying over Jack...but if I was one of them...I would not be on the plane.

it's my belief that the duct tape did not hold, and that caused the plane to crash. It's the Ajera (sp?) wreckage you see on the beach at the end. No one made it off the island, and the only ones left alive at the end are therefore Hurley, Ben, and Desmond, who may or may not ever make it off the island.

No.

no, as in that's not your belief, or no as in I'm not allowed to have my own beliefs?

The Ajira plane was red. The wreckage on the beach was blue.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Curse you Sack...I guess that's why you're member #4.How did you get that number anyway?

He is a candidate to replace Dodds one day.

 

[oso diablo]

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/26/lost-fin...cenes-wreckage/

”The images shown during the end credits of the Lost finale, which included shots of Oceanic 815 on a deserted beach, were not part of the final story but were a visual aid to allow the viewer to decompress before heading into the news,” an ABC spokesperson told the Times.

that doesn't even really make sense to me (who needs to "decompress", and who even watches local news any more?). but if that was the intent, i would have gone with a shot of Rose/Bernard kicking back and enjoying their island life.all in all, though, the right final shot was Jack's eye closing. period. No other visuals during the credits. Perhaps just ocean wave ambient noise.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

all in all, though, the right final shot was Jack's eye closing. period. No other visuals during the credits. Perhaps just ocean wave ambient noise.

If they needed something, they should have had a shot of Hurley and Ben standing over Jacks grave (which is next to all the others that they buried near the beach).

 

[tdoss]

I have to admit that I've come down off the mountain top a bit in the past couple of days.

I still feel we were DUPED when the writers said they had it all planned out...the end around being, "We knew what the final shot would be"...pretty sneaky, sis.

I still feel the island was initially purgatory/limbo...Jack's eye closing was definitely mapped out from the beginning but you can't convince me that the initial intent wasn't that they were all dead all along...but because the entire internet picked up on that vibe early on...the writers had to scramble and come up with something else so they wouldn't be pinned down with their claim that the island was not purgatory and lose the viewers. So, we end up with the side step...again...pretty sneaky way around the semantics of the argument...infact, I like that it's considered a "side step" cause that's exactly what it was...but I can accept it because it was still pretty well done.

I'm not happy about a lot of the stuff in the middle and the misdirections...I would've liked a little more info on the island's origin and whatnot but because I believe my first point of the island initially intended to be purgatory/limbo as being valid...there is no origin of the island for the writer's to give us. So...I can let it go. I feel the island was just an island they all crashed and died on...all the magical stuff was limbo-affected nonsense.

I think my initial dissatisfaction with the ending was because I felt I was lied to all this time...and I still feel I was somewhat...but I realize that's just the nature of the beast. It's hard to have a six season story arc all mapped out when you're not even sure you'll get picked up and renewed each season. However, I realized that from the beginning and where I get ruffled is that these guys kept making it sound like they had put in the initial work to get the story fully mapped out before pitching it and if it gets renewed for the full run, great. If not, then you try to wrap it up as quickly as possible once the cancellation notice comes in or hope for someone else like syfy to pick you up to finish the run. That's what I was hoping for and it didn't happen. They had an outline and some major plot points and the ending...everything else was created on the fly but not so hodgepodge as X-files. They still kept within the story framework and the flaws are forgivable.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I have to admit that I've come down off the mountain top a bit in the past couple of days.

I still feel we were DUPED when the writers said they had it all planned out...the end around being, "We knew what the final shot would be"...pretty sneaky, sis.

I still feel the island was initially purgatory/limbo...Jack's eye closing was definitely mapped out from the beginning but you can't convince me that the initial intent wasn't that they were all dead all along...but because the entire internet picked up on that vibe early on...the writers had to scramble and come up with something else so they wouldn't be pinned down with their claim that the island was not purgatory and lose the viewers. So, we end up with the side step...again...pretty sneaky way around the semantics of the argument...infact, I like that it's considered a "side step" cause that's exactly what it was...but I can accept it because it was still pretty well done.

I'm not happy about a lot of the stuff in the middle and the misdirections...I would've liked a little more info on the island's origin and whatnot but because I believe my first point of the island initially intended to be purgatory/limbo as being valid...there is no origin of the island for the writer's to give us. So...I can let it go. I feel the island was just an island they all crashed and died on...all the magical stuff was limbo-affected nonsense.

I think my initial dissatisfaction with the ending was because I felt I was lied to all this time...and I still feel I was somewhat...but I realize that's just the nature of the beast. It's hard to have a six season story arc all mapped out when you're not even sure you'll get picked up and renewed each season. However, I realized that from the beginning and where I get ruffled is that these guys kept making it sound like they had put in the initial work to get the story fully mapped out before pitching it and if it gets renewed for the full run, great. If not, then you try to wrap it up as quickly as possible once the cancellation notice comes in or hope for someone else like syfy to pick you up to finish the run. That's what I was hoping for and it didn't happen. They had an outline and some major plot points and the ending...everything else was created on the fly but not so hodgepodge as X-files. They still kept within the story framework and the flaws are forgivable.

You kinda remind me of this guy

 

[shuke]

I still feel the island was initially purgatory/limbo...Jack's eye closing was definitely mapped out from the beginning but you can't convince me that the initial intent wasn't that they were all dead all along...but because the entire internet picked up on that vibe early on...the writers had to scramble and come up with something else so they wouldn't be pinned down with their claim that the island was not purgatory and lose the viewers.

Agreed. Which is too bad.

 

[stbugs]

I still feel the island was initially purgatory/limbo...Jack's eye closing was definitely mapped out from the beginning but you can't convince me that the initial intent wasn't that they were all dead all along...but because the entire internet picked up on that vibe early on...the writers had to scramble and come up with something else so they wouldn't be pinned down with their claim that the island was not purgatory and lose the viewers.

Agreed. Which is too bad.

Sorry guys, but I disagree completely. Did you guys watch the pilot again on Saturday? Just watch it again and watch the scene with Locke talking about backgammon as the world's oldest game and as light versus dark. Sure seems to mesh pretty damn well with the second to last episode of the entire series with Jacob/Samuel's ancient game they played which was obviously light versus dark. Throw in the polar bear, Sayid's remark about the compass not working a couple episodes in and Locke's encounter with smokey a couple episodes in and there are so many things they setup early on that didn't get explained until multiple seasons later.Sure, I don't think the entire series was written pre-pilot, but I disagree that they completely changed courses. Sorry, but there was no sign that they clearly were thinking purgatory and went away from it.For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning. Where are your examples that they completely rewrote the entire series because of the "internet" folks catching on to it?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Why do people keep calling MiB Samuel?

Everything I've seen on it is that either in a script or casting call the character was called Samuel. For quite a few seasons now the writers/producers have been very cryptic about characters names so things don't get spoiled. Jacob was called Jason, IIRC, in scripts and/or casting calls.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

Ummmmm, because they didn't want to give away the ending? Just a hunch.

 

[Sack-Religious]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

While there was no mention of the cave, there was certainly a whole lot of talk of electromagnetism and the unique properties of the island, which we know now are basically one in the same, since Season 1, Episode 1.We saw this same light as both Ben and Locke turned the donkey wheel and we saw it again when the island was flashing through time.

 

[Sack-Religious]

For those that read the spoiler stuff. How accurate were the finale spoilers?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

Ummmmm, because they didn't want to give away the ending? Just a hunch.

How would it have given away the ending for us to know there was a super-secret cave with a giant penis in it that had to be inserted into the rock vajayjay to keep the light shining?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

While there was no mention of the cave, there was certainly a whole lot of talk of electromagnetism and the unique properties of the island, which we know now are basically one in the same, since Season 1, Episode 1.We saw this same light as both Ben and Locke turned the donkey wheel and we saw it again when the island was flashing through time.

What makes you say the flash cave and the electromagnetism and the donkey wheel are "one in [sic] the same" ?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

For those that read the spoiler stuff. How accurate were the finale spoilers?

100%

 

[stbugs]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

I explain it because it is NOT the most important feature of the island. Why do you get caught up in the writing/explanation of the plot device they needed to be able to a) show smokey getting created and b) allow Des, Jack and MIB to be able to do the ending? It could have been Billy Bob's special turkey fryer, i.e. what it is is actually not important. You are missing the point.Do you remember the magic healing/very special magnetic properties of the island we found out about in season 1? Heck, the scene with Locke in the pilot where he wiggles his toes pointed to his paralysis/healing and that was the first show. Now, we didn't know that at the time, but knowing what we found out later made that part more than just his waking up. Rose got cured from cancer, Sayid noted the compass being off, Locke told us he looked at smokey and saw into the island/said it was beautiful, etc. Obviously, the island was special, so if you are OK with that, you shouldn't care what the glowing light cave actually was. It doesn't matter and if you are OK with people magically healing, then who cares what it was. People don't magically heal, so you already suspended disbelief.I am OK if you think it was corny and you would have liked it to be something different, but what it was in fact was not as important as the island being special, which we knew about from day 1 and everyone was OK with it back then.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

You guys must have been great to read to as kids:

"Okay, so how can this Pan guy really fly and make others fly with him? And why does he stay a kid while Wendy and everyone else grows old? And c'mon, a crocodile can't really swallow a guy whole, even if he is missing his hand. And everyone is human except for this little pixie thing? Where'd she come from?"

Sheesh.

 

[stbugs]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

While there was no mention of the cave, there was certainly a whole lot of talk of electromagnetism and the unique properties of the island, which we know now are basically one in the same, since Season 1, Episode 1.We saw this same light as both Ben and Locke turned the donkey wheel and we saw it again when the island was flashing through time.

What makes you say the flash cave and the electromagnetism and the donkey wheel are "one in [sic] the same" ?

First, I think the electromagnetism was a property of the island being special. They mentioned that when Rose when to the Aussy healer that talked about magnetic powers in his location, but said he couldn't help her. One could infer that the island was more special than his location and she was healed. Also, they have mentioned tons of times about the island's magnetic powers, so I think it is safe to say that electromagnetism, or the intense electromagnetism came from the island being special or made the island special.Second, we saw that MIB built the donkey wheel as a way into the cave. Remember his mother in the cave with him where he had opened up a hole to see the light? They showed us the wheel there, so I think it is also safe to infer that that is where the donkey wheel we saw earlier in the show.

They aren't all the same thing, but do you not think that they are all intertwined with everything we have seen now?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I explain it because it is NOT the most important feature of the island. Why do you get caught up in the writing/explanation of the plot device they needed to be able to a) show smokey getting created and b) allow Des, Jack and MIB to be able to do the ending? It could have been Billy Bob's special turkey fryer, i.e. what it is is actually not important. You are missing the point.

Really? The magic cave that holds light from every person in the world isn't important? The cave that Jacob's mother spent her whole life protecting, and then Jacob spent his life protecting, and then Jack protected for like 15 minutes, before Hurley took over and spent HIS whole life protecting? The cave that, if the ding dong was taken out of the hoo-ha, would mean the extermination of all human life? The cave that caused Widmore to kidnap Desmond, bring him back to the island, shoot him with a bunch of electromagnetic waves, and attempt to send him down in there? The cave that Jack gave up his life so that he could put the wiener into to the velvet hallway? You really think that was unimportant to the story?

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I explain it because it is NOT the most important feature of the island. Why do you get caught up in the writing/explanation of the plot device they needed to be able to a) show smokey getting created and b) allow Des, Jack and MIB to be able to do the ending? It could have been Billy Bob's special turkey fryer, i.e. what it is is actually not important. You are missing the point.

Really? The magic cave that holds light from every person in the world isn't important? The cave that Jacob's mother spent her whole life protecting, and then Jacob spent his life protecting, and then Jack protected for like 15 minutes, before Hurley took over and spent HIS whole life protecting? The cave that, if the ding dong was taken out of the hoo-ha, would mean the extermination of all human life? The cave that caused Widmore to kidnap Desmond, bring him back to the island, shoot him with a bunch of electromagnetic waves, and attempt to send him down in there? The cave that Jack gave up his life so that he could put the wiener into to the velvet hallway? You really think that was unimportant to the story?

I refer you to the definition of MacGuffin that I posted a few pages back...

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

First, I think the electromagnetism was a property of the island being special. They mentioned that when Rose when to the Aussy healer that talked about magnetic powers in his location, but said he couldn't help her. One could infer that the island was more special than his location and she was healed. Also, they have mentioned tons of times about the island's magnetic powers, so I think it is safe to say that electromagnetism, or the intense electromagnetism came from the island being special or made the island special.Second, we saw that MIB built the donkey wheel as a way into the cave. Remember his mother in the cave with him where he had opened up a hole to see the light? They showed us the wheel there, so I think it is also safe to infer that that is where the donkey wheel we saw earlier in the show.They aren't all the same thing, but do you not think that they are all intertwined with everything we have seen now?

I think the writers knew that the island had special electromagnetic properties from the beginning. They didn't come up with the donkey wheel for a few seasons after that. And they came up with the super-exciting-happy-fun-cave-of-light some time in the last few months.

 

[stbugs]

You guys must have been great to read to as kids:"Okay, so how can this Pan guy really fly and make others fly with him? And why does he stay a kid while Wendy and everyone else grows old? And c'mon, a crocodile can't really swallow a guy whole, even if he is missing his hand. And everyone is human except for this little pixie thing? Where'd she come from?"Sheesh.

Exactly. I find it funny that people loved the show during the seasons where Rose and Locke were healed by the island, but think that a glowing cave makes no sense. It is a healing island folks, you already accepted that. Feel free to say it is corny, but it makes no sense to me to say that the show doesn't make sense anymore because a glowing cave isn't how a magical, healing island works.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I refer you to the definition of MacGuffin that I posted a few pages back...

I refer you to the definition of deus ex machina that somebody probably posted earlier.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I refer you to the definition of MacGuffin that I posted a few pages back...

I refer you to the definition of deus ex machina that somebody probably posted earlier.

Yes. And...

 

[stbugs]

I explain it because it is NOT the most important feature of the island. Why do you get caught up in the writing/explanation of the plot device they needed to be able to a) show smokey getting created and b) allow Des, Jack and MIB to be able to do the ending? It could have been Billy Bob's special turkey fryer, i.e. what it is is actually not important. You are missing the point.

Really? The magic cave that holds light from every person in the world isn't important? The cave that Jacob's mother spent her whole life protecting, and then Jacob spent his life protecting, and then Jack protected for like 15 minutes, before Hurley took over and spent HIS whole life protecting? The cave that, if the ding dong was taken out of the hoo-ha, would mean the extermination of all human life? The cave that caused Widmore to kidnap Desmond, bring him back to the island, shoot him with a bunch of electromagnetic waves, and attempt to send him down in there? The cave that Jack gave up his life so that he could put the wiener into to the velvet hallway? You really think that was unimportant to the story?

I refer you to the definition of MacGuffin that I posted a few pages back...

No, I don't think the magic cave that holds light... is important. We already knew the island was special, could heal, could transport folks to other places in the world at other times. How the decided to depict the heart of the island is not important to me at all. I think you are getting caught up with what it is after we already knew what it does. Again, it could have been a turkey fryer of light and while I would have thought that would be silly, it wouldn't bother me. Because of the final battle between light and dark, which was set in motion in the pilot episode, they had to show something where some of the action took place. Personally, the magic light cave wasn't my favorite part of the show, but again the actual device didn't matter.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

You guys must have been great to read to as kids:"Okay, so how can this Pan guy really fly and make others fly with him? And why does he stay a kid while Wendy and everyone else grows old? And c'mon, a crocodile can't really swallow a guy whole, even if he is missing his hand. And everyone is human except for this little pixie thing? Where'd she come from?"Sheesh.

Exactly. I find it funny that people loved the show during the seasons where Rose and Locke were healed by the island, but think that a glowing cave makes no sense. It is a healing island folks, you already accepted that. Feel free to say it is corny, but it makes no sense to me to say that the show doesn't make sense anymore because a glowing cave isn't how a magical, healing island works.

I had no expectation of realism. I just think it is terrible writing to spend a few seasons talking about the numbers, and Hurley's lottery win was based on the numbers, and the numbers were on the hatch, and some guy in a loony bin was chanting the numbers, and everyone had to type the numbers into the computer in the hatch, and the candidates were identified by the numbers, and then ... nothing. What about the ####### numbers? Oh, that wasn't important -- look at this shiny cave we just made up!

 

[cstu]

I still feel the island was initially purgatory/limbo...Jack's eye closing was definitely mapped out from the beginning but you can't convince me that the initial intent wasn't that they were all dead all along...but because the entire internet picked up on that vibe early on...the writers had to scramble and come up with something else so they wouldn't be pinned down with their claim that the island was not purgatory and lose the viewers.

Agreed. Which is too bad.

Sorry guys, but I disagree completely. Did you guys watch the pilot again on Saturday? Just watch it again and watch the scene with Locke talking about backgammon as the world's oldest game and as light versus dark. Sure seems to mesh pretty damn well with the second to last episode of the entire series with Jacob/Samuel's ancient game they played which was obviously light versus dark. Throw in the polar bear, Sayid's remark about the compass not working a couple episodes in and Locke's encounter with smokey a couple episodes in and there are so many things they setup early on that didn't get explained until multiple seasons later.Sure, I don't think the entire series was written pre-pilot, but I disagree that they completely changed courses. Sorry, but there was no sign that they clearly were thinking purgatory and went away from it.For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning. Where are your examples that they completely rewrote the entire series because of the "internet" folks catching on to it?

I think it's very likely that they had the basic idea of characters redeeming themselves on the island and meeting again after they are dead before going to heaven. The religious angle is likely the reason ABC approved the outline before Abrams and Lindehof actually wrote a script. As far as the mythology goes, that was just made up as they went along for the most part (outside of a magic island and a battle between Jacob and MiB) to drive the story along. They never cared about really tying the mythology up so it made sense since that was never part of the main purpose of the show to them anyway.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I refer you to the definition of MacGuffin that I posted a few pages back...

I refer you to the definition of deus ex machina that somebody probably posted earlier.

Yes. And...

The magic light cave was crap.

 

[sho nuff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di3w1yV4Ehg

Kimmel's unnecessary censorship.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

You guys must have been great to read to as kids:"Okay, so how can this Pan guy really fly and make others fly with him? And why does he stay a kid while Wendy and everyone else grows old? And c'mon, a crocodile can't really swallow a guy whole, even if he is missing his hand. And everyone is human except for this little pixie thing? Where'd she come from?"Sheesh.

Exactly. I find it funny that people loved the show during the seasons where Rose and Locke were healed by the island, but think that a glowing cave makes no sense. It is a healing island folks, you already accepted that. Feel free to say it is corny, but it makes no sense to me to say that the show doesn't make sense anymore because a glowing cave isn't how a magical, healing island works.

I had no expectation of realism. I just think it is terrible writing to spend a few seasons talking about the numbers, and Hurley's lottery win was based on the numbers, and the numbers were on the hatch, and some guy in a loony bin was chanting the numbers, and everyone had to type the numbers into the computer in the hatch, and the candidates were identified by the numbers, and then ... nothing. What about the ####### numbers? Oh, that wasn't important -- look at this shiny cave we just made up!

It's another set of universal constants similar to the Fibonacci sequence.There. I hope you can sleep better now.Seriously, what were you expecting? That they were the combination to Jacob's high school locker?

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

Dark Tower 1-4 just got here. Probably start reading tonight

Thanks for the recommendation guys

 

[stbugs]

First, I think the electromagnetism was a property of the island being special. They mentioned that when Rose when to the Aussy healer that talked about magnetic powers in his location, but said he couldn't help her. One could infer that the island was more special than his location and she was healed. Also, they have mentioned tons of times about the island's magnetic powers, so I think it is safe to say that electromagnetism, or the intense electromagnetism came from the island being special or made the island special.Second, we saw that MIB built the donkey wheel as a way into the cave. Remember his mother in the cave with him where he had opened up a hole to see the light? They showed us the wheel there, so I think it is also safe to infer that that is where the donkey wheel we saw earlier in the show.They aren't all the same thing, but do you not think that they are all intertwined with everything we have seen now?

I think the writers knew that the island had special electromagnetic properties from the beginning. They didn't come up with the donkey wheel for a few seasons after that. And they came up with the super-exciting-happy-fun-cave-of-light some time in the last few months.

You could be right on all accounts and I still don't see why that matters. Would you have felt it was better if the donkey wheel and cave were other objects? Again, the island being special was set on day 1 of the pilot episode and reinforced quite a bit in season 1.I think this all gets back to other comments like things being made up because once a upon a time before parts were even cast, Jack was supposed to die, so the show must be made up. The writers/producers have said that they had a plan from the beginning and that they "made up" each individual episode. I believe them. As you said, there was probably a discussion about what the donkey wheel should be. Doesn't mean that they didn't already have a thought on a device that allowed people to tap into the island's energy and travel off the island. Doesn't mean that they didn't have a plan for the island's energy and that MIB wanted to turn it off. When they wrote the last few episodes, they had to, gasp, actually write the show's episode and they decided on a magic cave.Was there anything in the donkey wheel/magic cave that makes you feel like stuff we saw in season 1 (healing, smokey, magnetism, etc.) was invalidated or do you just not like their visualizations of the devices behind those concepts?

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Dark Tower 1-4 just got here. Probably start reading tonightThanks for the recommendation guys

Wish I could read it for the first time again.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I think the critics need to grasp the spirit of the show a bit and move from the literal to the figurative - from the scientific to the spiritual.

For a lot of this stuff it's irrelevant what it is. All that matters is that it is.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

You could be right on all accounts and I still don't see why that matters. Would you have felt it was better if the donkey wheel and cave were other objects? Again, the island being special was set on day 1 of the pilot episode and reinforced quite a bit in season 1.I think this all gets back to other comments like things being made up because once a upon a time before parts were even cast, Jack was supposed to die, so the show must be made up. The writers/producers have said that they had a plan from the beginning and that they "made up" each individual episode. I believe them. As you said, there was probably a discussion about what the donkey wheel should be. Doesn't mean that they didn't already have a thought on a device that allowed people to tap into the island's energy and travel off the island. Doesn't mean that they didn't have a plan for the island's energy and that MIB wanted to turn it off. When they wrote the last few episodes, they had to, gasp, actually write the show's episode and they decided on a magic cave.Was there anything in the donkey wheel/magic cave that makes you feel like stuff we saw in season 1 (healing, smokey, magnetism, etc.) was invalidated or do you just not like their visualizations of the devices behind those concepts?

It has nothing to do with the visualizations. Despite your protestations to the contrary, the magical glow cave was really, really important to the end of the show. It is apparently the most important place in the world and holds everyone's destiny. The main character of the show ended up dying because of it. The mystical magical center of the show (who turned out to be just a regular guy in a tunic) apparently dedicated his entire existence to protecting it. The primary evil character of the show was apparently born or released from it. But we never even heard of it until the last few episodes.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

For a lot of this stuff it's irrelevant what it is. All that matters is that it is.

I don't know what this means.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

It has nothing to do with the visualizations. Despite your protestations to the contrary, the magical glow cave was really, really important to the end of the show. It is apparently the most important place in the world and holds everyone's destiny. The main character of the show ended up dying because of it. The mystical magical center of the show (who turned out to be just a regular guy in a tunic) apparently dedicated his entire existence to protecting it. The primary evil character of the show was apparently born or released from it. But we never even heard of it until the last few episodes.

The bolded is not right.And again, a ton of the mystery would have been taken out of it if we would have had a forensic analysis of the light in season three just so we can better understand what it is.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

For a lot of this stuff it's irrelevant what it is. All that matters is that it is.

I don't know what this means.

That is abundantly clear.

 

[stbugs]

You guys must have been great to read to as kids:"Okay, so how can this Pan guy really fly and make others fly with him? And why does he stay a kid while Wendy and everyone else grows old? And c'mon, a crocodile can't really swallow a guy whole, even if he is missing his hand. And everyone is human except for this little pixie thing? Where'd she come from?"Sheesh.

Exactly. I find it funny that people loved the show during the seasons where Rose and Locke were healed by the island, but think that a glowing cave makes no sense. It is a healing island folks, you already accepted that. Feel free to say it is corny, but it makes no sense to me to say that the show doesn't make sense anymore because a glowing cave isn't how a magical, healing island works.

I had no expectation of realism. I just think it is terrible writing to spend a few seasons talking about the numbers, and Hurley's lottery win was based on the numbers, and the numbers were on the hatch, and some guy in a loony bin was chanting the numbers, and everyone had to type the numbers into the computer in the hatch, and the candidates were identified by the numbers, and then ... nothing. What about the ####### numbers? Oh, that wasn't important -- look at this shiny cave we just made up!

OK, I am going to give you a very nice wrap up of my take on the numbers and you can let me know if you think it is OK for you.1. As noted in the offline materials, the numbers were an important sequence to Dharma/Hanso and to be honest Dharma/Hanso were a little effed up sometimes in their practices. I believe that Dharma/Hanso noted the island's special properties and tried to harness them somehow. If you don't recall, it was Hanso's relative was the Black Rock's captain and one member of the Black Rock got off the island, hence Widmore buying that log book. So, Hanso and thus Dharma had a jones for the island and thought those numbers were important.2. Dharma had a bad day on the island and built Desmond's hatch to contain the energy. The numbers were important to them, so they used them as the sequence numbers for data entry and put them on the hatch, which kind of makes sense.3. They also decided to use the same set of numbers in the looking glass hatch to help guide the sub in. I can't remember if this was ever actually noted on the show, but pretty sure it is true because of number 4.4. Hurley's insane buddy that gave him the numbers, told Hurley that he heard those numbers at a Navy sonar listening station. I believe they were actually tuning in on the Dharma sub beacon.5. Now, some say the numbers were bad luck but, just take that with a grain of salt. Listening to those numbers all the time and trying to make sense of them probably did Hurley's buddy/his coworker in. It also happened that that coworker probably tried to use those numbers to make sense everywhere and to make the story cool, they were the exact number of beans in a jar.6. Not sure how Hurley won the lottery, but in essence, he fell into the same trap as the Navy guys of using the numbers thinking they were special. You could say that maybe Jacob had a hand in that to get Hurley to the island, who knows. Hurley thinks he's cursed due to bad things after winning the lottery, but part of the show (he and Charlie in the Dharma van) was for him to realize he has to make his own luck and not just blame everything on a curse.That's my take on the numbers and why maybe they were a little special or maybe that they were just numbers that people heard and thought were more special than they were. Have fun.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It has nothing to do with the visualizations. Despite your protestations to the contrary, the magical glow cave was really, really important to the end of the show. It is apparently the most important place in the world and holds everyone's destiny. The main character of the show ended up dying because of it. The mystical magical center of the show (who turned out to be just a regular guy in a tunic) apparently dedicated his entire existence to protecting it. The primary evil character of the show was apparently born or released from it. But we never even heard of it until the last few episodes.

The bolded is not right.And again, a ton of the mystery would have been taken out of it if we would have had a forensic analysis of the light in season three just so we can better understand what it is.

Man in Black goes in the cave, Smoky comes out. Either Smoky was created at that time or he was trapped in there and released when Man in Black went in. Either way, the cave was a pretty big deal for him.I don't know what you're talking about with the forensic analysis. I just wanted it to come up in conversation.

 

[stbugs]

I think the critics need to grasp the spirit of the show a bit and move from the literal to the figurative - from the scientific to the spiritual.

For a lot of this stuff it's irrelevant what it is. All that matters is that it is.

And that is stuff that we already believed in and were shown back in the beginning. I understand the issue. A scary movie is always scariest when we don't know who the bad guy/thing is. When we see it, it loses some luster.

 

[Sack-Religious]

What makes you say the flash cave and the electromagnetism and the donkey wheel are "one in [sic] the same" ?

Because they're all tapped into, or come from, the same "Source." Grown-up Jacob and MiB are having a conversation as they play Senet and he tells Jacob this:

Together we have discovered places all over this island where metal behaves strangely. When we find one of these sites, we dig. And this time we found something.

In the original well where MiB was planning to put the donkey wheel he told Mother:

I spent 30 years searching for that place you brought me as a child--that...waterfall with that beautiful light. I've walked this island from end to end, not once coming close to finding it. But, then I began to think--what if the light underneath the island--what if I could get to it from someplace else? Figuring out how to reach it took a very long time.

He then removes a stone from the wall, through which shines the same yellow light he saw as a boy and gives off the same "humming" sound.DHARMA builds the Swan Station on top of one of these pockets of energy and they develop the computer system/number entry to disperse the electromagnetic energy that builds up. When Desmond doesn't push the button that same humming sounds intensifies.

Both Ben and Locke later push the wheel which emits the same light and humming sounds.

When the island was skipping through time there was the same humming sound and a bright flash of light emitted because the donkey wheel was stuck.

How can these NOT be related?

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

It has nothing to do with the visualizations. Despite your protestations to the contrary, the magical glow cave was really, really important to the end of the show. It is apparently the most important place in the world and holds everyone's destiny. The main character of the show ended up dying because of it. The mystical magical center of the show (who turned out to be just a regular guy in a tunic) apparently dedicated his entire existence to protecting it. The primary evil character of the show was apparently born or released from it. But we never even heard of it until the last few episodes.

The bolded is not right.And again, a ton of the mystery would have been taken out of it if we would have had a forensic analysis of the light in season three just so we can better understand what it is.

Man in Black goes in the cave, Smoky comes out. Either Smoky was created at that time or he was trapped in there and released when Man in Black went in. Either way, the cave was a pretty big deal for him.I don't know what you're talking about with the forensic analysis. I just wanted it to come up in conversation.

Did you miss MiB's lifeless body lying in the stream after Smokey was released? It was his evil essence that was set free from his body when he went in the cave.What you're doing is the equivalent of protesting that you can't drive the car until you understand how the internal combustion engine, the car's electrical system, and the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road works. Just get in and DRIVE man.

 

[Chiwawa]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

Ummmmm, because they didn't want to give away the ending? Just a hunch.

How would it have given away the ending for us to know there was a super-secret cave with a giant penis in it that had to be inserted into the rock vajayjay to keep the light shining?

I'm sure they didn't want to give away the ending, but the glowy cave was located near the bamboo field where Jack was flung, and where he eventually died. We know that's close to the site of the beach. It's likely that they would have come across it at some point, but they made no mention of it.Why not? Because it was more important to have a sloppy plot hole and have the glowy cave and the bamboo field be near each other (where Jack woke up and died) than to have Jack die somewhere else, in a more remote location of the island where the glowy cave was less likely to be found.Some people would rather have the logical fallacy and the closed narrative loop of Jack waking up and dying in the same place, others wouldn't.

 

[Sack-Religious]

What I really want to know is if Hurley finally paid Walt the money he owed him from the backgammon losses.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

For both of you, I gave just a couple notes that seem to backup that the ending/end game was planned out at the beginning.

How do you explain the fact that there was never a mention of a magic cave filled with light until, like, a few weeks ago? Even though it was apparently the most important feature of the island by far.

Ummmmm, because they didn't want to give away the ending? Just a hunch.

How would it have given away the ending for us to know there was a super-secret cave with a giant penis in it that had to be inserted into the rock vajayjay to keep the light shining?

I'm sure they didn't want to give away the ending, but the glowy cave was located near the bamboo field where Jack was flung, and where he eventually died. We know that's close to the site of the beach. It's likely that they would have come across it at some point, but they made no mention of it.Why not? Because it was more important to have a sloppy plot hole and have the glowy cave and the bamboo field be near each other (where Jack woke up and died) than to have Jack die somewhere else, in a more remote location of the island where the glowy cave was less likely to be found.

Some people would rather have the logical fallacy and the closed narrative loop of Jack waking up and dying in the same place, others wouldn't.

I know you're just being obstinate here, Truck. You're smarter than this.Jacob made it very clear that it couldn't be seen until it could be seen. I'm not sure why this is a hangup for some people in a fantasy/sci-fi show.

 

[Statorama]

Gotta ask here...

Is it THAT easy to become a tracker? Seems like everybody became one during their 100 days on the island. Locke I get, but Hurley isn't tracking anything but the price of size 54 pants.