*Official* Marvel's Black Panther movie (2 Viewers)

[GregR]

I completely understood the motivations of Killmonger and thought they were true to the character through the very end.  

But I don’t remember Magneto doing anything to help Jewish people.  I thought his whole motivation was humans suck and he’d never allow anyone to treat him that way again. People were going to treat mutants that way eventually so he’s going to wipe out the non-mutants before that happens. Or are you saying his actions were motivated by social injustices done to mutants?

He lived through what was done to Jews. Then he saw treatment of mutants following a similar path to the path that led to the Holocaust.  Resentment, prejudice, persecution, government registration and actions against, etc.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Benefitted the movie?  Hasn’t it made more money than every other Marvel film? 

#3 all time for Marvel right now.

 

[bigbottom]

#3 all time for Marvel right now.

This is what I was thinking of:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=marvelcomics.htm

Maybe that’s just domestic box office. 

Edit: #3 when you adjust for ticket price inflation. 

 

[NewlyRetired]

Maybe that’s just domestic box office. . 

Black Panther is #1 domestic, number 3 world wide, trailing Avengers 1 and 2.

 

[baymen]

So nobody else thought it was racist that the cia  officer wasn't allowed to talk, without the mountain king barking like a dog.  Or how the wakandans were sending weapons to London, Tokyo and somewhere else to fight the oppressed.  Or how killjoy would rather die than be held in bondage.  Plenty more but gtfo if you didn't think any of that crap isn't racist.  The whole movie was over the top racist.

omg

 

[Andrew74]

He lived through what was done to Jews. Then he saw treatment of mutants following a similar path to the path that led to the Holocaust.  Resentment, prejudice, persecution, government registration and actions against, etc.

I am guessing people don’t see the connection between Magneto and Killmonger because superpowered mutants don’t exist.  If Magneto’s aims were to overthrow the world’s governments and make Israel in charge, I’m sure you would have heard a similar outcry.

 

[Mario Kart]

I am guessing people don’t see the connection between Magneto and Killmonger because superpowered mutants don’t exist.  If Magneto’s aims were to overthrow the world’s governments and make Israel in charge, I’m sure you would have heard a similar outcry.

Not sure about the whole Israel thing, no biggie though. I'm kind of surprised that people don't know about the X-Men and how they have always been a metaphor for some of the things not talked about in America. The writers of the X-Men have always used "mutants" and their oppression as a speaker for many things not discussed openly in America. Magneto is a bad man but he is allegorical in the overall theme. I'm not surprised some people don't want to see that though.

 

[Harry Manback]

So nobody else thought it was racist that the cia  officer wasn't allowed to talk, without the mountain king barking like a dog.  Or how the wakandans were sending weapons to London, Tokyo and somewhere else to fight the oppressed.  Or how killjoy would rather die than be held in bondage.  Plenty more but gtfo if you didn't think any of that crap isn't racist.  The whole movie was over the top racist.

Oh you poor, little snowflake.

First: Look up the definition of racist.

Second: Man up

Third: It's fun to be a victim, at first, but I think you'll find you'll lose any shred of respect you may (or may not) have had.

 

[Harry Manback]

Also, was anyone else outraged about the movie Downfall? I felt the main character was sort of racist, possibly even prejudiced towards people different than him.

This offended me, anyone else?

 

[Doug B]

So nobody else thought it was racist that the cia officer wasn't allowed to talk, without the mountain king barking like a dog.

On this point specifically: I think that you are correct that director Ryan Coogler did choose to depict open racism in certain scenes. However, I think you missed something about these scenes -- it wasn't "Black people gettin' back at the man!". Rather, in the Black Panther world, open racism was used as a thinly-veiled proxy for ignorance.

M'Baku barked down Everett Ross for a few reasons. Ignorance of what Ross offered to the efforts against Killmonger. To assert control over his throne room in a way he could not with T'Challa. And, yes, to prove that he would not be cowed in his own court by a white man. Consider also that M'Baku was meant to represent an uncouth, unrefined character. M'Baku is not the moral compass of the film -- T'Challa is.

Another example of expressed racism marking ignorance is in Shuri's dismissive attitude towards both Everett Ross and Bucky Barnes. She may know a lot about tech and computers, but Shuri is young and ignorant -- especially ignorant of the bravery Ross would later display in the fight against KIllmonger's forces. The racism Coogler presents is not meant to elevate the racist characters into mini-heroes for getting back at white people -- it is meant to shine a light on their ignorance, and ultimately the ignorance that gives birth to all bigotry. If there was any doubt about Coogler's intended message, T'Challa's speech during the first in-credits scene lays bare the anti-divisiveness message.

Or how the Wakandans were sending weapons to London, Tokyo and somewhere else to fight the oppressed.

This was Wakandans under Killmonger's illegitimate leadership -- specifically what the heroes in the movie were fighting against.
 

Or how Killjoy would rather die than be held in bondage.

In the context of the film, this is a reasonable choice for Killmonger to make. For one, Killmonger is known to viewers to be (regrettably) damaged goods -- he is not seeking the redemption T'Challa is offering. For another, many black people raised in poverty in the U.S. will have allusions of slavery in their minds when faced with impending bondage.
 

Plenty more but gtfo if you didn't think any of that crap isn't racist.  The whole movie was over the top racist.

I agree with you that racism is depicted in the film. I don't think we agree on why Coogler made the scene-by-scene choices to depict racism, though.

 

[GregR]

I am guessing people don’t see the connection between Magneto and Killmonger because superpowered mutants don’t exist.  If Magneto’s aims were to overthrow the world’s governments and make Israel in charge, I’m sure you would have heard a similar outcry.

I believe in society today there is a segment whose reaction to most any recognition that black people are treated unequally, ranges from decrying it as somehow being racist, to quieter support of those who decry it as racist.  Decrying it as racist seems like a pretty common tactic these days from a bigger group than I'd have wanted to think exists.

Past behavior makes me think that few of that segment are going to care to recognize how much of this movie could be social commentary and how much is simply fiction.  I think your average person would look at Black Panther and say, "I can draw a parallel to real life in that a black person could grow up disillusioned or even angry by society's treatment of blacks, and maybe the movie makers intended that as commentary". 

I also think your average person is going to look at Killmonger wanting to start a war as a way to deal with it and think "that's the fiction, that's the part where the guy reacts in a way so obviously wrong that it makes it clear he is a villain to be opposed. It is silly to think it was commentary that Real Life people should handle the issue that way".   But I wholly expect the more extreme segment will ignore that part being obviously fiction. They want to treat it as real because that would support the cries of racism they were going to raise anyway. See earlier post by person who left the thread as an example.

I don't see that being done in America to remotely near the same degree with other societal groups. After the visible horrors of the Holocaust, it takes a pretty radical and rabid viewpoint to still deny Jewish persecution in the same way people won't admit to there being a level of injustice towards blacks.

So no, I really don't think there would be the same size reaction at all if Magneto had a Jewish agenda instead of a mutant agenda.  Hyper-sensitivity to the issue of social injustice towards blacks is what's driving this particular Black Panther reaction.  There is nothing special about Killmonger's plan compared to those of many other villains, that merits the reaction. 

 

[matuski]

Benefitted the movie?  Hasn’t it made more money than every other Marvel film? And notwithstanding your criticisms (however valid), you paid to see it not once, but twice. It’s not my favorite Marvel movie by a long shot, but it’s sort of hard to take issue with the formula if the goal was to make a crapload of money and become a cultural phenomenon. 

Lots of bad movies (worse than BP), have made craploads of money.  Not sure what that has to do with my posts.  I was obviously speaking to the benefit of the movie, as in the story/characters.. my enjoyment of it.

I thought the movie would have been better if it had passed on a few of the try hard moments. 

 

[matuski]

So nobody else thought it was racist that the cia  officer wasn't allowed to talk, without the mountain king barking like a dog.  Or how the wakandans were sending weapons to London, Tokyo and somewhere else to fight the oppressed.  Or how killjoy would rather die than be held in bondage.  Plenty more but gtfo if you didn't think any of that crap isn't racist.  The whole movie was over the top racist.

And this is the type of posting I hope I am not being associated with. 

I did not think the movie was racist.  At all.

 

[bigbottom]

Lots of bad movies (worse than BP), have made craploads of money.  Not sure what that has to do with my posts.

I thought the movie would have been better if it had passed on a few of the try hard moments. 

And I guess what I'm suggesting is that making the movie more subtle and nuanced on these points may have increased your personal appreciation of the film, but may have been counterproductive to the movie's success at the box office and status as a cultural phenomenon.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's not really debatable that Killmonger is racist...but he's the bad guy.

 

[bigbottom]

And this is the type of posting I hope I am not being associated with. 

I don't think you are.  Your point isn't remotely similar.

 

[Andrew74]

I don't see that being done in America to remotely near the same degree with other societal groups. After the visible horrors of the Holocaust, it takes a pretty radical and rabid viewpoint to still deny Jewish persecution in the same way people won't admit to there being a level of injustice towards blacks.

So no, I really don't think there would be the same size reaction at all if Magneto had a Jewish agenda instead of a mutant agenda.  Hyper-sensitivity to the issue of social injustice towards blacks is what's driving this particular Black Panther reaction.  There is nothing special about Killmonger's plan compared to those of many other villains, that merits the reaction. 

I think you are right, and I should walk that back on saying there would be a similar outcry. I’m sure you’d hear one from the resident anti-Semites but it would be a small fraction.

 

[Harry Manback]

And this is the type of posting I hope I am not being associated with. 

I did not think the movie was racist.  At all.

It's called projecting. 

He's seeing racism everywhere because of his own deep seeded racism. 

If "they" are racist too, it makes it ok for him to be.

Kind of sad, but expected from that type.

 

[GregR]

3D blu ray finally arrived.  Only saw it the once in the theater.  Enjoyed it then, but liked it far more on second viewing.   Wish the early sequences were not so dark though.

 

[cockroach]

Yea, the CGI in the last fight was baaaaad.  Not sure how you can think cleaning that up could hurt the movie's success. 

 

[-OZ-]

M'Baku barked down Everett Ross for a few reasons. Ignorance of what Ross offered to the efforts against Killmonger. To assert control over his throne room in a way he could not with T'Challa. And, yes, to prove that he would not be cowed in his own court by a white man. Consider also that M'Baku was meant to represent an uncouth, unrefined character. M'Baku is not the moral compass of the film -- T'Challa is.

That was my thought at the moment. American trying to tell another nation how to govern. More of a commentary on what we've been doing for a long time now. The way we've gone to Iraq and Afghanistan, to teach people how to govern. It's pretty conceited of us, for a time we were trying to impose the American court system on tribes, often without input from those leaders. "This is the right way". I took the barking to be the writers way of telling us to respect other cultures by listening more and speaking a lot less.

 

[gopherit]

Finally decided to watch this yesterday on Netflix.

I wish I didn't.

Maybe it was the story or the actors, but just could't get into it.

 

[bcdjr1]

Finally decided to watch this yesterday on Netflix.

I wish I didn't.

Maybe it was the story or the actors, but just could't get into it.

It's brave of you to admit that on the internet, where you will now be branded a Nazi. 

 

[eoMMan]

So who’s the new black panther at the end of the Wakanda Forever trailer?

Some think Kilmonger might have been resurrected. Or could it be one of the females?