*** OFFICIAL*** Minnesota Vikings offseason thread (1 Viewer)

[NBusiness]

How about for that report on LTs, we see the stats of rush ypg and sacks per game the year before and the year after some of the higher selected ones were picked.

 

[ArcticEdge]

That's a pretty terrible argument. Everyone knows that QB is the most important position in football. How many of those left tackles played for a team with a top 5 QB? Orlando Pace did. He won a SB and went to another. Walter Jones, Tony Boselli, and Levi Brown played with borderline top 5 QBs. Jones and Brown both lost a SB and Boselli played in 4 straight postseasons and made an AFC championship.All those other left tackles played with bottom of the barrel QBs and therefore can't be judged for their lack of postseason success. That's what it really comes down to. Is Ponder going to become a Top 5 guy or even a borderline Top 5 guy? If the answer is no, then the Vikings screwed up by not making a play for RGIII. If, however, Ponder does improve to the point that he is at least a borderline top 5 guy, then protecting his ### is the most important duty the Vikings management has and passing up a likely decade of great blindside protection to fill one of about 100 holes in the secondary is asinine.

So if we take an LT in the second, it's that HUGE of a drop in talent, and Ponder dies..? Cmon, we need another WR with swagger, and there are none left in FA. Blackmon looks awesome IMO, lets take him and then the best LT in the second.

 

[RustyFA4]

Yes, the talent gap between Kalil and a 2nd round guy like zebrie sanders is immense. Blackmon is more of a top 10 guy and less of a top 3 guy. I hope the vices re smart enough to take Kalil.

In my mind this year the top guys are

Tier 1 Andrew luck.

2 Kalil

RG3

Claiborne

Richardson

3 blackmon

4 everyone else

Trading down and taking claiborne would be good but I think that we should only take Kalil if we stick there.

 

[encaitar]

That's a pretty terrible argument. Everyone knows that QB is the most important position in football. How many of those left tackles played for a team with a top 5 QB? Orlando Pace did. He won a SB and went to another. Walter Jones, Tony Boselli, and Levi Brown played with borderline top 5 QBs. Jones and Brown both lost a SB and Boselli played in 4 straight postseasons and made an AFC championship.All those other left tackles played with bottom of the barrel QBs and therefore can't be judged for their lack of postseason success. That's what it really comes down to. Is Ponder going to become a Top 5 guy or even a borderline Top 5 guy? If the answer is no, then the Vikings screwed up by not making a play for RGIII. If, however, Ponder does improve to the point that he is at least a borderline top 5 guy, then protecting his ### is the most important duty the Vikings management has and passing up a likely decade of great blindside protection to fill one of about 100 holes in the secondary is asinine.

So if we take an LT in the second, it's that HUGE of a drop in talent, and Ponder dies..? Cmon, we need another WR with swagger, and there are none left in FA. Blackmon looks awesome IMO, lets take him and then the best LT in the second.

Yes, it is a HUGE drop-off in talent. Kalil is seen as a guaranteed franchise LT. There isn't even another tackle in the first round that is seen as a guaranteed franchise LT. I could ask you the same thing. If we take a guy like Alshon Jeffery or Kendall Wright in the second round is that a HUGE drop-off from Blackmon? I think the answer to that is much closer to being a no than the one you asked. In fact, I don't even think Blackmon is the best WR in the draft. I'd much rather have Michael Floyd.

 

[shamrock84]

That's a pretty terrible argument. Everyone knows that QB is the most important position in football. How many of those left tackles played for a team with a top 5 QB? Orlando Pace did. He won a SB and went to another. Walter Jones, Tony Boselli, and Levi Brown played with borderline top 5 QBs. Jones and Brown both lost a SB and Boselli played in 4 straight postseasons and made an AFC championship.All those other left tackles played with bottom of the barrel QBs and therefore can't be judged for their lack of postseason success. That's what it really comes down to. Is Ponder going to become a Top 5 guy or even a borderline Top 5 guy? If the answer is no, then the Vikings screwed up by not making a play for RGIII. If, however, Ponder does improve to the point that he is at least a borderline top 5 guy, then protecting his ### is the most important duty the Vikings management has and passing up a likely decade of great blindside protection to fill one of about 100 holes in the secondary is asinine.

So if we take an LT in the second, it's that HUGE of a drop in talent, and Ponder dies..? Cmon, we need another WR with swagger, and there are none left in FA. Blackmon looks awesome IMO, lets take him and then the best LT in the second.

Yes, it is a HUGE drop-off in talent. Kalil is seen as a guaranteed franchise LT. There isn't even another tackle in the first round that is seen as a guaranteed franchise LT. I could ask you the same thing. If we take a guy like Alshon Jeffery or Kendall Wright in the second round is that a HUGE drop-off from Blackmon? I think the answer to that is much closer to being a no than the one you asked. In fact, I don't even think Blackmon is the best WR in the draft. I'd much rather have Michael Floyd.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

From PFT

“We had Chris in the office the other day, and I talked to him and Coach Frazier talked to him, he met with our staff,” G.M. Rick Spielman told Sid Hartman of the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

“We are very excited about getting Chris Cook back, not only to help us on the football field, but we think Chris Cook is a very good person, and we really believe that he’s moving on and going to be a better person,” Spielman added.

“Sometimes you have to go through some hard lessons to give you a wake-up call, if there was a wake-up call,” Spielman said. “But you go through some tough times sometimes, and sometimes coming out of those situations really makes you a stronger and better person.”

I think those quotes are absurd. I'm standing on the precipice of giving up on this team.

 

[Donnybrook]

http://sportsillustr...ml?xid=sbnation

Don Banks mock draft has the Vikings sticking with Kalil and offer this explanation:

For now I'm not buying the notion the Vikings are moving away from Kalil and toward either LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne or Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon. Not that they're unworthy picks at No. 3, but Kalil is also worthy, and the value/need of the Vikings' left tackle position is at least as high, if not higher, than it is at cornerback or receiver. After watching the Rams hit the jackpot at No. 2, sounds to me like Minnesota wants to see if anyone is interested in giving up a boatload to trade up to No. 3 for one of the draft's elite talents or possibly No. 3 quarterback Ryan Tannehill.

I agree with him. However, under this trade scenario, wouldn't the Vikings most logical trading partner be the Rams moving back up for Kalil? Obviously the Rams would give far less than they got to move up. They could offer the #6 and a first next year (Washington's or their own) . I don't think I would do it at that price. Worst case scenario, would be Claiborne and Blackmon both gone by the #5 pick leaving the Vikings with a reach at #6 or with 10 minutes on the clock to find another trading partner.

 

[encaitar]

http://sportsillustr...ml?xid=sbnation

Don Banks mock draft has the Vikings sticking with Kalil and offer this explanation:

For now I'm not buying the notion the Vikings are moving away from Kalil and toward either LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne or Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon. Not that they're unworthy picks at No. 3, but Kalil is also worthy, and the value/need of the Vikings' left tackle position is at least as high, if not higher, than it is at cornerback or receiver. After watching the Rams hit the jackpot at No. 2, sounds to me like Minnesota wants to see if anyone is interested in giving up a boatload to trade up to No. 3 for one of the draft's elite talents or possibly No. 3 quarterback Ryan Tannehill.

I agree with him. However, under this trade scenario, wouldn't the Vikings most logical trading partner be the Rams moving back up for Kalil? Obviously the Rams would give far less than they got to move up. They could offer the #6 and a first next year (Washington's or their own) . I don't think I would do it at that price. Worst case scenario, would be Claiborne and Blackmon both gone by the #5 pick leaving the Vikings with a reach at #6 or with 10 minutes on the clock to find another trading partner.

I think the Vikings are looking for anything they can get at this point. Obviously there's a little jealousy regarding what St. Louis got for the #2. I think the Vikings would deal with St. Louis if they got offered a first next year and a third this year, which isn't out of the question IMO. I wouldn't be too upset if that happened as long as we ended up with Claiborne or Blackmon in that scenario. I would even be ok with them trading down with Miami(if they wanted to assure themselves of Tannehill). They would need to get 2 future first rounders and a couple other picks to make it worth it, but moving to 8 and selecting Reiff, Michael Floyd, or Dontari Poe and a bunch of picks would be a win also.I really don't think they're gonna find a true trade partner though and I hope they don't give up the pick for something less than market value just to "pick up some more picks".

 

[encaitar]

BTW, why didn't we offer more to Erin Henderson? I thought he played great last year and should have been given a long contract to lock him up. I really think he would've signed a contract for around 3.5 million a year, which will look like a bargain next year if he has another year like this past one.

Also, along those same lines, who's starting at MLB next year? They aren't really chancing that position on a guy who was hurt all of last year and was pedestrian in his starts before that are they? I personally would like to see Erin moved to MLB and them find a new WLB. Erin played the middle position really well during nickel packages last year and I think he showed the ability to shed blockers well enough to play MLB in base packages too. I would trust him there more than Jasper Brinkley is my point.

 

[Donnybrook]

BTW, why didn't we offer more to Erin Henderson? I thought he played great last year and should have been given a long contract to lock him up. I really think he would've signed a contract for around 3.5 million a year, which will look like a bargain next year if he has another year like this past one. Also, along those same lines, who's starting at MLB next year? They aren't really chancing that position on a guy who was hurt all of last year and was pedestrian in his starts before that are they? I personally would like to see Erin moved to MLB and them find a new WLB. Erin played the middle position really well during nickel packages last year and I think he showed the ability to shed blockers well enough to play MLB in base packages too. I would trust him there more than Jasper Brinkley is my point.

I can't complain about that. It is a "prove it" contract. They have until next year to re-sign him. It seems like a very soft market for line backers since it took 12 days for Curtis Lofton to sign. (Still wondering what he and Ted Ginn got in terms of money)I have a feeling that Solomon Elimimian will emerge as being more than a special teams player.

 

[encaitar]

Yeah, I understand it's a prove it contract. However, I think it's going to cost the Vikings a couple million a year versus what they could've locked him up for this year. Outside of Dline, he was the only bright spot on defense. I think he'll be on the field in all packages this year and that's just going to drive the cost for an extension up.

 

[cstu]

That's a pretty terrible argument. Everyone knows that QB is the most important position in football. How many of those left tackles played for a team with a top 5 QB? Orlando Pace did. He won a SB and went to another. Walter Jones, Tony Boselli, and Levi Brown played with borderline top 5 QBs. Jones and Brown both lost a SB and Boselli played in 4 straight postseasons and made an AFC championship.All those other left tackles played with bottom of the barrel QBs and therefore can't be judged for their lack of postseason success. That's what it really comes down to. Is Ponder going to become a Top 5 guy or even a borderline Top 5 guy? If the answer is no, then the Vikings screwed up by not making a play for RGIII. If, however, Ponder does improve to the point that he is at least a borderline top 5 guy, then protecting his ### is the most important duty the Vikings management has and passing up a likely decade of great blindside protection to fill one of about 100 holes in the secondary is asinine.

So if we take an LT in the second, it's that HUGE of a drop in talent, and Ponder dies..? Cmon, we need another WR with swagger, and there are none left in FA. Blackmon looks awesome IMO, lets take him and then the best LT in the second.

Yes, it is a HUGE drop-off in talent. Kalil is seen as a guaranteed franchise LT. There isn't even another tackle in the first round that is seen as a guaranteed franchise LT. I could ask you the same thing. If we take a guy like Alshon Jeffery or Kendall Wright in the second round is that a HUGE drop-off from Blackmon? I think the answer to that is much closer to being a no than the one you asked. In fact, I don't even think Blackmon is the best WR in the draft. I'd much rather have Michael Floyd.

I think Blackmon is much better than Floyd and there's a big dropoff from him to Jeffery/Wright, but I agree with your point. Franchise LT are not only difficult to find but they protect the team's most valuable asset - the QB. As good as I think Blackmon will be the Vikings primary concern is to make sure their QB stays healthy.

 

[griff321]

From PFT

“We had Chris in the office the other day, and I talked to him and Coach Frazier talked to him, he met with our staff,” G.M. Rick Spielman told Sid Hartman of the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

“We are very excited about getting Chris Cook back, not only to help us on the football field, but we think Chris Cook is a very good person, and we really believe that he’s moving on and going to be a better person,” Spielman added.

“Sometimes you have to go through some hard lessons to give you a wake-up call, if there was a wake-up call,” Spielman said. “But you go through some tough times sometimes, and sometimes coming out of those situations really makes you a stronger and better person.”

I think those quotes are absurd. I'm standing on the precipice of giving up on this team.

WOW! I can't blame you AD. It's one thing to accept the guy back because if they don't then someone will, but to go out of your way to praise him as a person is unreal. The funny thing is a WCCO producer tweeted that a source told him Cook celebrated his acquittal at the same strip club. His arrogance shows me he has learned nothing. Unreal.

 

[Herb]

From PFT

“We had Chris in the office the other day, and I talked to him and Coach Frazier talked to him, he met with our staff,” G.M. Rick Spielman told Sid Hartman of the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

“We are very excited about getting Chris Cook back, not only to help us on the football field, but we think Chris Cook is a very good person, and we really believe that he’s moving on and going to be a better person,” Spielman added.

“Sometimes you have to go through some hard lessons to give you a wake-up call, if there was a wake-up call,” Spielman said. “But you go through some tough times sometimes, and sometimes coming out of those situations really makes you a stronger and better person.”

I think those quotes are absurd. I'm standing on the precipice of giving up on this team.

WOW! I can't blame you AD. It's one thing to accept the guy back because if they don't then someone will, but to go out of your way to praise him as a person is unreal. The funny thing is a WCCO producer tweeted that a source told him Cook celebrated his acquittal at the same strip club. His arrogance shows me he has learned nothing. Unreal.

Cook is a POS. But he was aquitted, and life goes on. Since when do you need to be a great human being to play in the NFL? I don't like the guy but I think he's got the skills to be a #1 CB and this team desperately needs that, so step back from the ledge Andy, and just try to relax. I'm sure some of your co-workers are POS's too, but you don't quit your job because of it...Also, something I haven't seen mentioned much in the refrain of protecting Christian by drafting Kalil: let's not forget the impact a stud LT can have on the running game. This team was 2nd in the league last year with 5.2 YPC with a pretty crappy OL. They could net around 5.5 YPC this year with a great LT and a healthy(ish) AP. That would go a long ways toward legitimizing this offensive unit. A lot more than drafting a WR, IMO.

 

[Funkley]

I get the hatred toward Cook but are we really surprised when a pro athlete reveals himself to be a scumbag? Plus, I can only imagine what my Viking heroes of the 70's were like as people. We know Carl Eller was no saint.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

I get the hatred toward Cook but are we really surprised when a pro athlete reveals himself to be a scumbag? Plus, I can only imagine what my Viking heroes of the 70's were like as people. We know Carl Eller was no saint.

This is so true. I am in the Casino business and have dealt to many athletes and 1 out of every 10 is "cool" and some of the most revered like Michael Jordan are complete and utter morons. I once saw Jordan scream at an elderly old lady who just happened to get confused walking around the casino and walked into his roped off area by mistake looking for the people she came to the casino with. Yes it is better to root for the "good guys" but every team has these knuckleheads so if you are looking for a team of 53 choir boys then you might have to just start watching Church League Softball games on the weekends instead of football.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Some of you guys need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say I wanted to give up on the team because Cook was on it.

I said I was ready to give up on the team because theyre trying to portray him as a good person. Spielman playing me for a fool is what gets on my last nerves with this squad.

 

[griff321]

Some of you guys need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say I wanted to give up on the team because Cook was on it.I said I was ready to give up on the team because theyre trying to portray him as a good person. Spielman playing me for a fool is what gets on my last nerves with this squad.

That was exactly my point as well.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Sorry for being snarky there.

 

[snogger]

Sorry for being snarky there.

You .... Snarky??? Nooooo.. never....

 

[Heatman]

Some of you guys need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say I wanted to give up on the team because Cook was on it.I said I was ready to give up on the team because theyre trying to portray him as a good person. Spielman playing me for a fool is what gets on my last nerves with this squad.

Spielman will turn this team into the Miami Dolphins if they keep him around too long. How does he keep getting these jobs. I feel like a fan of the Millen led Lions... almost.

 

[Herb]

Sorry for being snarky there.

So in order to help me with my comprehension, could you define 'snarky' for me here?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Sorry for being snarky there.

So in order to help me with my comprehension, could you define 'snarky' for me here?

A bit of a jerk.

 

[Herb]

Sorry for being snarky there.

So in order to help me with my comprehension, could you define 'snarky' for me here?

A bit of a jerk.

Comprehended. Thanks AD.

 

[Funkley]

I knew what you meant, just didnt give a ####.

/snarky/

 

[Donnybrook]

The whole Claiborne over Kalil smoke screen got me thinking about how cover 2 teams rate corners. For example, Ronde Barber was one of the best cover 2 corners but was originally a 3rd round pick for the Bucs. I know that the Vikings draft board for CBs would be quite different than most other teams. The Vikings MO is to take DBs late in the draft.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a draft site that ranks corners on their zone coverage vs. their man coverage skills. I would like to compile a CB ranking biased toward cover 2 skills so when the Vikings draft one of them I will have some idea who they are.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

The whole Claiborne over Kalil smoke screen got me thinking about how cover 2 teams rate corners. For example, Ronde Barber was one of the best cover 2 corners but was originally a 3rd round pick for the Bucs. I know that the Vikings draft board for CBs would be quite different than most other teams. The Vikings MO is to take DBs late in the draft. Unfortunately, I haven't found a draft site that ranks corners on their zone coverage vs. their man coverage skills. I would like to compile a CB ranking biased toward cover 2 skills so when the Vikings draft one of them I will have some idea who they are.

I agree...they need strong safeties to make the defense work, which is why I think they take one early in the draft this year (1st three rounds).

 

[Herb]

Seifert on the Vikes new defensive "gut"

Thought this might be a good discussion. Makes me nervous to have these 2 as the stalwarts in the middle of the D...

 

[Biabreakable]

Seifert on the Vikes new defensive "gut"

Thought this might be a good discussion. Makes me nervous to have these 2 as the stalwarts in the middle of the D...

I don't think we are done here. There will be some LBer coming from the draft. Having EJ come back provides some insurance if Brinkley does not pan out. Neither player will be in our nickle package which the Vikings will be in a lot. I think this is partly influencing how the team values linebackers. They mainly want 2 very good ones for nickle packages and cut corners at LB 3. I don't see either as being very good in coverage. EJ used to better at this than he is now, Brinkley is too slow. But they should be good enough on run downs.I still think an upgrade is coming through the draft, especially when they only signed Erin to a one year deal.

 

[Biabreakable]

The STrib had a really good breakdown of all the LTs selected in the top 10 in the past 20 years with the players longevity and the playoff record of the team that drafted them. After going over this list, I don't want Kalil. Why drafting Matt Kalil might not be as valuable as you've been led to believe.

1992

Bob Whitfield

Drafted: No. 8 by Atlanta

Team’s record while he was there: 82-109-1

Longevity: Whitfield played in Atlanta for 12 years, starting all 16 games in nine of those seasons. He lasted 15 years in the NFL, playing 220 career games.

Postseason success with Atlanta: Whitfield was a starter on the 1998 Falcons team that upset the Vikings in the NFC Championship game to reach the Super Bowl. But Atlanta made the playoffs only two other times during his stay there.

Ray Roberts

Drafted: No. 10 by Seattle

Team’s record while he was there: 22-42

Longevity: Roberts played 127 games during his NFL career with 116 starts. After four seasons in Seattle, he played his final five years for the Lions.

Postseason success with Seattle: The Seahawks did not make the playoffs during Roberts’ four seasons there.

1993

Willie Roaf

Drafted: No. 8 by New Orleans

Team’s record while he was there: 57-87

Longevity: Roaf enjoyed a Hall of Fame career during his 13 seasons in the league, reaching the Pro Bowl 11 times. After nine years in New Orleans, he finished his career in Kansas City.

Postseason success with New Orleans: Roaf played in exactly two playoff games with the Saints – a 31-28 win over the Rams in 2000 followed by a 34-16 loss to the Vikings in the division round the following week.

1995

Tony Boselli

Drafted: No. 2 by Jacksonville

Team’s record while he was there: 62-50

Longevity: Boselli played 91 games over seven seasons for the Jaguars and was an All-Pro for three consecutive years from 1997-99. He was selected in the 2002 expansion draft by the Texans but never played a game for Houston.

Postseason success: Boselli helped the Jaguars make the playoffs for four consecutive years from 1996-99. Jacksonville advanced to the AFC Championship game in 1996 but lost to New England.

1996

Willie Anderson

Drafted: No. 10 by Cincinnati

Team’s record while he was there: 76-116

Longevity: Anderson was sturdy for 13 seasons, the first 12 with the Bengals. He played 195 career games and started 184 of them. He went to the Pro Bowl four times.

Postseason success: During Anderson’s 12 seasons in Cincinnati, the Bengals played one playoff game, a 31-17 loss to Pittsburgh after the 2005 season.

1997

Orlando Pace

Drafted: No. 1 by St. Louis

Team’s record while he was there: 92-100

Longevity: Pace played 12 seasons with the Rams and finished his career with a one-season stint in Chicago. He made 165 starts in his 169 career games and made the Pro Bowl in seven consecutive seasons (1999-2005).

Postseason success: The Rams made the postseason five times and went 7-4 in playoff games during Pace’s tenure there. He was the anchor of an offensive line that helped St. Louis win Super Bowl XXXIV. The Rams also made it to Super Bowl XXXVI.

Walter Jones

Drafted: No. 6 by Seattle

Team’s record while he was there: 102-90

Longevity: Jones played his entire 12-year career with the Seahawks and started 180 games. He made the Pro Bowl in nine of his final 10 seasons.

Postseason success: Seattle made the playoffs six times and won four postseason games, including two victories following the ’05 season that sent the Seahawks onto the Super Bowl.

2000

Chris Samuels

Drafted: No. 3 by Washington

Team’s record while he was there: 70-90

Longevity: Samuels lasted 10 years and played in 141 games for the Redskins. He made the Pro Bowl six times.

Postseason success with team that drafted him: The Redskins made the playoffs in 2005 and ’07 but one only one postseason game and never reached the conference championship game during Samuels’ time there.

2002

Mike Williams

Drafted: No. 4 by Buffalo

Team’s record while he was there: 28-36

Longevity: Williams lasted four years with the Bills then spent one season each in Jacksonville and Washington.

Postseason success with Buffalo: The Bills did not reach the postseason while he was there.

Bryant McKinnie

Drafted: No. 7 by the Vikings

Team’s record while he was there: 74-70

Longevity: In nine years with the Vikings, McKinnie made 131 starts and was a mainstay up front. He made the Pro Bowl in 2009. After being released last summer, he played all 16 games in 2011 for the Ravens.

Postseason success with Minnesota: The Vikings reached the playoffs in three of McKinnie’s nine seasons and had a 2-3 record in those games. They almost reached the Super Bowl after the 2009 season before suffering a devastating overtime loss to New Orleans in the NFC Championship game.

Levi Jones

Drafted: No. 10 by Cincinnati

Team’s record while he was there: 48-63-1

Longevity: Jones spent seven seasons with the Bengals and finished his career in 2009 with the Redskins.

Postseason success with Cincinnati: The Bengals lost their only playoff game with Jones on the roster, a 31-17 stumble against Pittsburgh in January 2006.

2003

Jordan Gross

Drafted: No. 8 by Carolina

Team’s record while he’s been there: 72-72

Longevity: Gross has made 135 starts in his nine seasons in Charlotte. He’s made the Pro Bowl twice.

Postseason success: As a rookie, Gross helped the Panthers reach the Super Bowl where they lost to New England. Two years later, Carolina was back in the NFC Championship game. They’ve won five of their eight playoff games in three postseason appearances during Gross’ nine seasons.

2004

Robert Gallery

Drafted: No. 2 by Oakland

Team’s record while he was there: 33-79

Longevity: Gallery played his first seven seasons in Oakland before playing last year in Seattle. He’s played in 104 games during his eight years in the league.

Postseason success with Oakland: The Raiders never reached the playoffs.

2006

D’Brickashaw Ferguson

Drafted: No. 4 by the New York Jets

Team’s record while he’s been there: 51-45

Longevity: Ferguson hasn’t missed a start in six seasons with the Jets and has made the Pro Bowl the past three seasons.

Postseason success: New York has reached the playoffs three times in Ferguson’s six seasons and reached the AFC Championship game in consecutive seasons in 2009 and 2010.

2007

Joe Thomas

Drafted: No. 4 by Cleveland.

Team’s record while he was there: 28-52

Longevity: Thomas hasn’t missed a start in five seasons with the Browns and has made the Pro Bowl all five seasons.

Postseason success: The Browns have yet to reach the playoffs.

Levi Brown

Drafted: No. 5 by Arizona

Team’s record while he’s been there there: 40-40

Longevity: Brown hasn’t missed a start over the past four seasons and has played in 77 games during his five years in Arizona.

Postseason success: The Cardinals made the playoffs after the ’08 and ’09 seasons and advanced to Super Bowl XLIII with Brown aiding a prolific passing attack.

2008

Jake Long

Drafted: No. 1 by Miami

Team’s record while he’s been there: 31-33

Longevity: Long has played in and started 62 of Miami’s 64 games over the past four seasons. He’s made the Pro Bowl in all four seasons.

Postseason success: Miami went 11-5 when Long was a rookie in 2008 but lost its playoff opener 27-9 to Baltimore.

2009

Jason Smith

Drafted: No. 2 by the Rams

Team’s record while he’s been there: 10-38

Longevity: Smith hasn’t lived up to expectations, hampered by injuries and inconsistent play. He’s played 29 games with 26 starts in his first three seasons.

Postseason success: The Rams have yet to reach the playoffs.

Andre Smith

Drafted: No. 6 by Cincinnati

Team’s record while he was there: 23-25

Longevity: Smith has started 19 times and played in 27 games in his first three seasons.

Postseason success: The Bengals have reached the playoffs twice in the past three seasons but lost their postseason openers both times.

Eugene Monroe

Drafted: No. 8 by Jacksonville

Team’s record while he’s been there: 20-28

Longevity: Monroe has played 45 games and started 42 during his first three seasons.

Postseason success: The Jaguars have yet to reach the playoffs.

2010

Trent Williams

Drafted: No. 4 by Washington

Team’s record while he’s been there: 11-21

Longevity: Williams has played in 24 games and started 23 during his first two seasons.

Postseason success: The Redskins have yet to reach the playoffs.

Russell Okung

Drafted: No. 6 by Seattle

Team’s record while he’s been there: 14-18

Longevity: Okung has made 22 starts in his first two seasons with the Seahawks.

Postseason success: After sneaking into the playoffs with a 7-9 record in 2011, Okung helped Seattle upset New Orleans in the wild card round. The Seahawks lost the following week at Chicago.

2011

Tyron Smith

Drafted: No. 9 by Dallas

Team’s record while he’s been there: 8-8

Longevity: Smith started all 16 games as a rookie last season.

Postseason success: The Cowboys did not reach the playoffs in 2011

I think the only thing left to be said is, Claiborne or Blackmon?

I don't see how after looking at the overall success of the players on this list that you would come to any conclusion other than the importance of having a solid LT. Sure some of these players busted but not nearly as many as players from other positions drafted this high do. The players who were successful held down the most important position on the offensive line for many years and made those teams competitive. Including our Vikings (yes McKinney used to be decent).I think a better way to look at it is how well have the Vikings ever performed without a good LT on their roster? 3-13 last year being one of the few examples.

 

[Biabreakable]

Yes, the talent gap between Kalil and a 2nd round guy like zebrie sanders is immense. Blackmon is more of a top 10 guy and less of a top 3 guy. I hope the vices re smart enough to take Kalil.In my mind this year the top guys areTier 1 Andrew luck.2 KalilRG3ClaiborneRichardson3 blackmon 4 everyone elseTrading down and taking claiborne would be good but I think that we should only take Kalil if we stick there.

Agreed.I would very much like for the Vikings to get Claiborne actually. I just can't justify doing so over Kalil who I think will be better than McKinney was and possibly better than Steussie was as well.

 

[Funkley]

A bad team with no identity and poor line play.....not sure why there is even a debate about who they should take.

 

[snogger]

A bad team with no identity and poor line play.....not sure why there is even a debate about who they should take.

Simple.. there are a LOT of holes to fill. If they could drop 1 or 2 spots, get Claibone and extra draft picks then they should do it. But if they can't get anyone to trade up then they need to take Kali at 3.

 

[Funkley]

Disagree. Bad teams re-build either at QB or through improving line play. This is a no brainer, you take Kalil.

 

[Donnybrook]

Peter King Tweet:

...:Who should the Vikings take at #3? ... Build up the Tannehill market, then trade to Mia or force Cle to move up 1.

Forcing Cleveland to move up one would obviously be preferable. Just playing what if for a minute, who would be your pick for the Vikings at 8 (assuming Blackmon, Claiborne and Kalil are gone)?

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Peter King Tweet:

...:Who should the Vikings take at #3? ... Build up the Tannehill market, then trade to Mia or force Cle to move up 1.

Forcing Cleveland to move up one would obviously be preferable. Just playing what if for a minute, who would be your pick for the Vikings at 8 (assuming Blackmon, Claiborne and Kalil are gone)?

In that scenario, I would want Michael Floyd, but that might be too high to take him, so I would hope they would move down a bit farther if possible. Of course, I would be under the assumption that Reiff would be gone - otherwise they should take him.

 

[Biabreakable]

Peter King Tweet:

...:Who should the Vikings take at #3? ... Build up the Tannehill market, then trade to Mia or force Cle to move up 1.

Forcing Cleveland to move up one would obviously be preferable. Just playing what if for a minute, who would be your pick for the Vikings at 8 (assuming Blackmon, Claiborne and Kalil are gone)?

I think those are the only elite players available at positions of need for the Vikings. So it is hard for me to advocate trading down that far and missing out.If we traded down to pick 8 and all of those players are gone (likely) then I think we would be looking at defensive linemen such as Melvin Ingram, Couples or DTs Dontari Poe or Brockers. While these guys are nice prospects they won't make as significant of impact for the Vikings like Claiborne or Kalil will.

Other players we might consider are Michael Floyd, Riley Reiff or Dre Kirkpatrick. All of these players are a step down from Kalil or Claiborne in my opinion and if we are trading down for depth then we might look at trading down again from pick 8 to pick up more value.

I don't like the idea of trading down much at all. Reiff has been talked about as more of a RT prospect and I just don't see the other tackles bringing as much potential as Kalil does.

I really love what the Rams did. I think there are 6 elite type prospects in this draft and they will all likely be taken in the top 6 as well. A pick of Tannehill could cause one of those 6 to fall to 7 but not to pick 8.

So I would be alright with stealing picks from Cleveland to move down one pick and still get Kalil @ 4 or trading down with the Rams for pick 6 and still being able to get either Claiborne or Blackmon. I could live with that. If we trade down to pick 8 I don't think it will end well and we might be looking to trade down again.

 

[Donnybrook]

Obviously the compensation for moving down that far would have to be very substantial.

A little surprised that you didn't mention DeCastro because he definitely fills a need. Of course, most drafniks would say that guards rarely go that high.

Dre Kirkpatrick would be an interesting choice because he seems to fit a cover 2 scheme better than the coveted Claiborne. Bunting believes Kirkpatrick is the best tackling corner in this draft class. A trait the Vikings have always put a priority on. He is tall but is not a great in man coverage and some have suggested that he could move to free safety. Not sure if his upside is worth the risk if he can't cover Calvin and Marshall.

It is all hypothetical of course.

 

[Donnybrook]

Peter King Tweet:

...:Who should the Vikings take at #3? ... Build up the Tannehill market, then trade to Mia or force Cle to move up 1.

Forcing Cleveland to move up one would obviously be preferable. Just playing what if for a minute, who would be your pick for the Vikings at 8 (assuming Blackmon, Claiborne and Kalil are gone)?

In that scenario, I would want Michael Floyd, but that might be too high to take him, so I would hope they would move down a bit farther if possible. Of course, I would be under the assumption that Reiff would be gone - otherwise they should take him.

I was assuming that Reiff would still be there.

 

[Biabreakable]

I do like DeCastro a lot but I don't think he should be taken in the top 10. With the singing of Shwartz we have one guard and by drafting a tackle we could move Johnson to guard where he would be better suited. If we take DeCastro then who is going to play LT?

That is mainly why I didn't mention him. Was someone I considered. This is how I am reading the tea leaves right now is that pick 8 is the start of a 2nd tier in terms of talent and potential. For a team that already has a solid LT DeCastro has more value I think.

We likely need to upgrade RT as Loadholt has been a liability in pass protection. But the team has indicated they want to give him another year to develop. Loadholt certainly cannot handle the move to LT if we did draft Reif or Martin. So I see our hands somewhat tied there.

On the other hand if we could work out a deal that netted us Martin + Kirpatrick instead of just Kalil that is something that needs be considered. I am expecting Kirpatrick to be a pick in the 20's right now. So trade our 1st and 2nd round picks for Clevelands 1st round picks? The only other team I see possibly doing something like this with would be the Bengals if we could get them to give both of their 1st round picks to move up to 3.

 

[Funkley]

If Spielman loses out on an elite player just to add a 2nd round pick I might have to be done with them.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I do like DeCastro a lot but I don't think he should be taken in the top 10. With the singing of Shwartz we have one guard and by drafting a tackle we could move Johnson to guard where he would be better suited. If we take DeCastro then who is going to play LT?That is mainly why I didn't mention him. Was someone I considered. This is how I am reading the tea leaves right now is that pick 8 is the start of a 2nd tier in terms of talent and potential. For a team that already has a solid LT DeCastro has more value I think.We likely need to upgrade RT as Loadholt has been a liability in pass protection. But the team has indicated they want to give him another year to develop. Loadholt certainly cannot handle the move to LT if we did draft Reif or Martin. So I see our hands somewhat tied there.On the other hand if we could work out a deal that netted us Martin + Kirpatrick instead of just Kalil that is something that needs be considered. I am expecting Kirpatrick to be a pick in the 20's right now. So trade our 1st and 2nd round picks for Clevelands 1st round picks? The only other team I see possibly doing something like this with would be the Bengals if we could get them to give both of their 1st round picks to move up to 3.

I could live with either one of those trade scenarios...I would think the Browns would also give up their 2nd rounder to move up one spot to guarantee they get their guy. If the Vikings could do this and still get Kalil that would be ideal.

 

[Warhogs]

Might there be some hope for the Vikings to slide down and get a little something? I'm hearing more talk that both the Browns and Buccaneers would like to draft Richardson. If that heats up maybe Tampa Bay will make a move to #3 to draft Richardson ahead of the Browns?

I would think the Vikings would love to slide from #3 to #5 and add a pick.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Might there be some hope for the Vikings to slide down and get a little something? I'm hearing more talk that both the Browns and Buccaneers would like to draft Richardson. If that heats up maybe Tampa Bay will make a move to #3 to draft Richardson ahead of the Browns?I would think the Vikings would love to slide from #3 to #5 and add a pick.

 

[cstu]

Yes, the talent gap between Kalil and a 2nd round guy like zebrie sanders is immense. Blackmon is more of a top 10 guy and less of a top 3 guy. I hope the vices re smart enough to take Kalil.In my mind this year the top guys areTier 1 Andrew luck.2 KalilRG3ClaiborneRichardson3 blackmon 4 everyone elseTrading down and taking claiborne would be good but I think that we should only take Kalil if we stick there.

Agreed.I would very much like for the Vikings to get Claiborne actually. I just can't justify doing so over Kalil who I think will be better than McKinney was and possibly better than Steussie was as well.

No reason to over think this one - the Vikes have a young QB, terrible OL and you rarely have a chance to get a LT like Kalil.

 

[Donnybrook]

The whole Claiborne over Kalil smoke screen got me thinking about how cover 2 teams rate corners. For example, Ronde Barber was one of the best cover 2 corners but was originally a 3rd round pick for the Bucs. I know that the Vikings draft board for CBs would be quite different than most other teams. The Vikings MO is to take DBs late in the draft.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a draft site that ranks corners on their zone coverage vs. their man coverage skills. I would like to compile a CB ranking biased toward cover 2 skills so when the Vikings draft one of them I will have some idea who they are.

I agree...they need strong safeties to make the defense work, which is why I think they take one early in the draft this year (1st three rounds).

Actually found one site that ranks the top 10 CBs based on several criteria including zone and man coverage skills: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/3/4/2844258/bengals-draft-2012-a-look-at-this-years-cornerback-class-CB-Rankings-Cincinnati I wish the author would have went beyond the top 10 corners in the draft. I know that the Vikings have a pre-draft visit with Casey Hayward.

 

[Donnybrook]

Klume tweet:

Whoa. Just heard the Vikes got bought out by the Anschutz Company (AEG). Looks like we're L.A. bound. http://bit.ly/Hyu2yg

 

[snellman]

What if Spielman could get Mia to bite and trade up to #3, then take Floyd at #8? I like the thought of getting left tackle, but this team has way too many holes to fill to not try to get as many picks as possible.

 

[Funkley]

They wont get better by "filling holes". They'll get better with elite players. Amazed by all of the interest in trading down. The only good thing about such a brutal season is the opportunity to draft an elite player and you guys want to give that away for quantity over quality.

 

[Herb]

Might there be some hope for the Vikings to slide down and get a little something? I'm hearing more talk that both the Browns and Buccaneers would like to draft Richardson. If that heats up maybe Tampa Bay will make a move to #3 to draft Richardson ahead of the Browns?I would think the Vikings would love to slide from #3 to #5 and add a pick.

This would be the ideal because they would still maybe have a shot at Kalil.