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Official MLB playoffs thread: 23 hour game exhausts all ball supplies (1 Viewer)

Who wins it all?

  • Total voters
    111
Didn't think that I'd like the 5pm start of the ALCS game. Missed the first few innings getting home from work.

Then I liked the 5pm start time as I settled in and watched a healthy dose of baseball (last 5 innings) before going to bed at a reasonable time.

Good luck to those posting in here 4 hours ago, staying til the end of the late NLCS game.  I recommend wearing new glasses to work today:

Work Glasses

 
Between Machado and "launch angle baseball" I'm finding it hard to root for my Dodgers with my whole heart. Turner, Dozier, and Kershaw are the only ones I can still easily pull for.

 
JuniorGong said:
Cheating, trolling, trailing in the series.

In all seriousness though, I don’t know how any Boston sports fan can make this an issue with a straight face. 
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They were trying to catch the other teams trying to steal signs

 
Bull Dozier said:
Between Machado and "launch angle baseball" I'm finding it hard to root for my Dodgers with my whole heart. Turner, Dozier, and Kershaw are the only ones I can still easily pull for.
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Machado stills has bouts of immaturity.  Saying that hustling is not his cup of tea and that he will never change was just a stupid comment to make...then the stunt he pulled yesterday was worse. 

 
JuniorGong said:
Cheating, trolling, trailing in the series.

In all seriousness though, I don’t know how any Boston sports fan can make this an issue with a straight face. 
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Don’t confuse Red Sox fans with fans of the lowlife, cheating Patriots 

 
E-Z Glider said:
Dont get the Machado outrage. He barely touched anyone. The wussification of sports continues.
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I feel asleep so I didn't see the play live. I searched for it on YouTube and the first result was a collection of his lowlights. Add in the two questionable take out slides from the last game and this guy clearly is a doosh.

 
JuniorGong said:
Cheating, trolling, trailing in the series.

In all seriousness though, I don’t know how any Boston sports fan can make this an issue with a straight face. 
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Oh I’m by no means trying to point fingers from above. You’ll notice how much question was framed. 

That said, it’s funny How this stuff isn’t news unless it’s happening Boston. Case in point, yesterday’s headlines: 

“Red Sox pitchers caught cheating” (re pine tar or sunblock on arm, very common) 

“Were the Astros cheating?”  (Re illegal dugout video texting that has been ongoing an recognized by the league). 

I don’t really give a #### but the double standard is just funny. 

 
I’ll guarantee you guys too that Cora was texting instructions during game 1 after he got tossed. He more or less admitted it at the press conference after the game. 

 
E-Z Glider said:
Dont get the Machado outrage. He barely touched anyone. The wussification of sports continues.
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How could you possibly defend what he did? There is no reason for it that falls within normal parameters of the game other than being a punk. I could understand dinosaurs that still cling to the old ways defending his slides into second base, but what he did at first is indefensible. It was classless if we look at it in the best light possible for machado. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
How could you possibly defend what he did? There is no reason for it that falls within normal parameters of the game other than being a punk. I could understand dinosaurs that still cling to the old ways defending his slides into second base, but what he did at first is indefensible. It was classless if we look at it in the best light possible for machado. 
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I was referring to the 2 slides at 2nd base. His intention was obviously to break-up / distract the play from being made. He was doing this to help his team. Not sure how that makes him a "punk". He barely grazed the SS with either slide.

The play at 1st was indeed bush-league. Doesnt make the slides at 2nd any worse, IMO.

 
This new "approach" to hitting must have Tony Gwynn spinning in his grave. That was the most boring tied postseason game I've ever seen.

 
Gr00vus said:
This new "approach" to hitting must have Tony Gwynn spinning in his grave. That was the most boring tied postseason game I've ever seen.
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I know I'm old when I'm nodding along with the color commentator during games (smoltz in this case). Tie game, no outs, runner on first. Infield shifted for a lefty pull hitter. Why in God's name would you not lay down an easy bunt moving a runner into scoring position, still with no outs? Doesn't even have to be a good bunt. Push it all the way to third and both runners can walk to the next base. 

 
Epic Problem said:
@cosjobs 

Don't get me wrong, I love his game, but everything about him just screams typical baseball #####. Seems like he's ready to be the AJ Pierzynski of this generation. 
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I disagree. His love of the game  and playing may sometimes irritate the other side, but he is not doing it in a mean-spirited way, imo. I'm sure we'll see soon enough

 
cosjobs said:
I disagree. His love of the game  and playing may sometimes irritate the other side, but he is not doing it in a mean-spirited way, imo. I'm sure we'll see soon enough
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The guy you hate until he's on your team. AJP wasn't dirty either, he was just an annoying jackass

 
Bull Dozier said:
I know I'm old when I'm nodding along with the color commentator during games (smoltz in this case). Tie game, no outs, runner on first. Infield shifted for a lefty pull hitter. Why in God's name would you not lay down an easy bunt moving a runner into scoring position, still with no outs? Doesn't even have to be a good bunt. Push it all the way to third and both runners can walk to the next base. 
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I've also chuckled a few times when various commentators have gushed over how awesome all the relief pitchers are after some schlub strikes out trying to hit pitches bouncing in the dirt into next week or takes zillions of called strikes on breaking balls landing dead center in the strike zone.

 
Gr00vus said:
This new "approach" to hitting must have Tony Gwynn spinning in his grave. That was the most boring tied postseason game I've ever seen.
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That's the one thing I loved about the Royals team that won the World Series in 2015. They started that run in '14 because they were contact hitters that could put the ball in play and make the defense work. 

Unfortunately, that '14 and '15 team also started the trend of the lights out bullpen. Those Royals teams just needed to get to the 5th and 6th inning with a lead and it was over. 

 
Bull Dozier said:
I know I'm old when I'm nodding along with the color commentator during games (smoltz in this case). Tie game, no outs, runner on first. Infield shifted for a lefty pull hitter. Why in God's name would you not lay down an easy bunt moving a runner into scoring position, still with no outs? Doesn't even have to be a good bunt. Push it all the way to third and both runners can walk to the next base. 
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Amen

SometimesI just wanna scream " ####### BUNT!!!!!!!!"

 
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Bull Dozier said:
I know I'm old when I'm nodding along with the color commentator during games (smoltz in this case). Tie game, no outs, runner on first. Infield shifted for a lefty pull hitter. Why in God's name would you not lay down an easy bunt moving a runner into scoring position, still with no outs? Doesn't even have to be a good bunt. Push it all the way to third and both runners can walk to the next base. 
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Same with Pina's leadoff double top of the 7th.  Just play baseball and you've got a run at least half the time or more.  Or do the computers they use now say something different?

Flyout, flyout, groundout done.

 
E-Z Glider said:
I was referring to the 2 slides at 2nd base. His intention was obviously to break-up / distract the play from being made. He was doing this to help his team. Not sure how that makes him a "punk". He barely grazed the SS with either slide.

The play at 1st was indeed bush-league. Doesnt make the slides at 2nd any worse, IMO.
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I am speaking about the play at first. I still think the plays at second are dirty, but I dont have as much of a problem with them. For many many years that was just what you did. He didnt spike him or barrel into him. I think it is holding onto an old custom, but again it is far more understandable, so I get it.

The play at first is what I meant was indefensible and makes him a punk. 

 
I was with Manny up until the stuff at first base last night, which was inexcusable. 

First, the "not hustling" play on the groundout to short. That was Joe Buck being an old school doosh. No, Manny wasn't going 100 miles an hour down the line, but it wasn't egregious either. Not like he turned off halfway down the line and went back to the dugout. He was going to be out no matter what, regardless of if he "hustled" or not.

Then, contrast that with the two slides at second base. First you're calling the guy out for not trying hard enough, and now he's going in hard trying to break up double plays and gets called out for that. If that had been some scrappy lunch-pail guy, he would have been praised.

I will also say Manny hustled plenty hard when it mattered, scoring the winning run last night. 

But, like I said, when it comes to the thing at first base last night, I got nothing. That was crap. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Same with Pina's leadoff double top of the 7th.  Just play baseball and you've got a run at least half the time or more.  Or do the computers they use now say something different?

Flyout, flyout, groundout done.
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Yes and no. I actually don't have a problem with not bunting. I think the real issue is that bunting takes a lot of practice. It isnt actually easy considering the stuff they are facing. So managers don't want to use BP for something that maybe gives them a slight advantage in isolated situations. Pitchers practice bunting all the time and are way better at it. Look at Lester. He sucks at hitting, but he is a great bunter. Joe has used him in situations where he pinch hits him to bunt instead of a position player. Happened in extra innings against the Mariners a couple years ago.

People always think the bunt is a guarantee and it just isnt. Now factor in that you are sacrificing an out and you are the away team so one run isnt a guaranteed win, and then the math dicates often to not bunt. 

 
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parasaurolophus said:
Yes and no. I actually don't have a problem with not bunting. I think the real issue is that bunting takes a lot of practice. It isnt actually easy considering the stuff they are facing. So managers don't want to use BP for something that maybe gives them a slight advantage in isolated situations. Pitchers practice bunting all the time and are way better at it. Look at Lester. He sucks at hitting, but he is a great bunter. Joe has used him in situations where he pinch hits him to bunt instead of a position player. Happened in extra innings against the Mariners a couple years ago.

People always think the bunt is a guarantee and it just isnt. Now factor in that you are sacrificing an out and you are the away team so one run isnt a guaranteed win, and then the math dicates often to not bunt. 
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Bunting is not guaranteed, but that's only because they don't practice it. The fact that John Lester (not to mention my teenage boys) can learn how to bunt shows it is not a skill that takes some particular natural gift to master. If defenses are going to play in a way that gives free bases to those willing to bunt, a good player/team/coach is going to spend some time on that when it could mean runs in the playoffs. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Max Muncy, who took a walk vs Josh Hader, has a .891 OPS vs LHP this year but Dave Roberts always sits him vs LHP starters. 

This is why I want the Dodgers to lose. @Epic Problem
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To add to this....

For just about the entire month of September, this guy sat Muncy and Bellinger vs LHP. Today,  in the most important game of the year, both are in the lineup and Bellinger's leading off against LHP Wade Miley

Way to set your guys up for success, right?

The only reasoning I can think of this happening is that its the order the names came out of the hat. 

 
Bull Dozier said:
Bunting is not guaranteed, but that's only because they don't practice it. The fact that John Lester (not to mention my teenage boys) can learn how to bunt shows it is not a skill that takes some particular natural gift to master. If defenses are going to play in a way that gives free bases to those willing to bunt, a good player/team/coach is going to spend some time on that when it could mean runs in the playoffs. 
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Even pitchers get less than 50% of attempted bunts in play. So less than 75% chance of getting it in play on the first two strikes. That's just getting it in play. 

 
Run expectancy with runner on 1st with no outs is higher than run expectancy for runner on 2nd with 1 out. .86 to .66 (Nevermind the fact that bunting could leave you with 1 out and a runner on first).

Now this is only a valid stat for the visiting team since when you are the home team in extra innings only run run obviously wins the game. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Yes and no. I actually don't have a problem with not bunting. I think the real issue is that bunting takes a lot of practice. It isnt actually easy considering the stuff they are facing. So managers don't want to use BP for something that maybe gives them a slight advantage in isolated situations. Pitchers practice bunting all the time and are way better at it. Look at Lester. He sucks at hitting, but he is a great bunter. Joe has used him in situations where he pinch hits him to bunt instead of a position player. Happened in extra innings against the Mariners a couple years ago.

People always think the bunt is a guarantee and it just isnt. Now factor in that you are sacrificing an out and you are the away team so one run isnt a guaranteed win, and then the math dicates often to not bunt. 
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I have a really hard time questioning Counsel on anything, he's such a great baseball guy and a local kid at that.  I would never pretend to be in a position to second guess anything Counsel does.  Many people are angry he pitched to Bellinger at all last night, and I would really like to hear his explanation on that - not to question his decision as much as just knowing what the thought process was because I'm definitely not a baseball guy.  The thing with Pina's leadoff double though - that doesn't even take a bunt necessarily.  My recollection from playing as a kid is you hit the ball to the right side, or bunt if you'd like, and get the runner over to third.  I always thought that was just fundamental baseball that everyone would play in that situation - tie game, looking for a go-ahead run.

Regarding bunting and practice time, etc. I admit I don't know alot about that.  I do go to alot of games at Miller Park and have to say it is dumbfounding to see the extreme defensive switches some of these teams make, including the Brewers.  I'm not sure a bunt is even necessary when you see some of these huge open gaps left when they switch.  I understand the pitchers are very tough to hit, but how hard can it be to choke up a bit and NOT PULL the ball?  Especially when the guy is trowing high 90's, I would think swinging a bit behind the ball is doable.

 
Yelich wasn't getting on base, he bunted when Turner was just playing a deep 3rd base and was able to beat it out.  Can't imagine Yeli practices bunting all that well.  Although this past summer we had our 9 and 11 year olds practicing 2 or 3 bunts in every hitting practice we had.  That was more to help train their eyes to follow the ball but it was still practicing it.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I have a really hard time questioning Counsel on anything, he's such a great baseball guy and a local kid at that.  I would never pretend to be in a position to second guess anything Counsel does.  Many people are angry he pitched to Bellinger at all last night, and I would really like to hear his explanation on that - not to question his decision as much as just knowing what the thought process was because I'm definitely not a baseball guy.  The thing with Pina's leadoff double though - that doesn't even take a bunt necessarily.  My recollection from playing as a kid is you hit the ball to the right side, or bunt if you'd like, and get the runner over to third.  I always thought that was just fundamental baseball that everyone would play in that situation - tie game, looking for a go-ahead run.

Regarding bunting and practice time, etc. I admit I don't know alot about that.  I do go to alot of games at Miller Park and have to say it is dumbfounding to see the extreme defensive switches some of these teams make, including the Brewers.  I'm not sure a bunt is even necessary when you see some of these huge open gaps left when they switch.  I understand the pitchers are very tough to hit, but how hard can it be to choke up a bit and NOT PULL the ball?  Especially when the guy is trowing high 90's, I would think swinging a bit behind the ball is doable.
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Hitting right now is in a pretty landmark state of evolution so there is a lot at play. I have seen a lot of guys try to slap it the opposite way to beat the shift and have royally screwed it up. Rizzo come to mind right away. He has tried a lot of gimmick swings and he often screws it up, or he wastes two strikes trying and now he is 0-2 facing a guy that is throwing 97 with a wicked slider. It just isnt that easy to do some of this stuff. And even if you are successful at it you could very well be giving up run expectancy because you didnt hit it deep. So what do you practice? Trying to be a slap single hitter or hitting home runs? 

There will be some stuff figured out and the pendulum will swing back, but it will likely take data points first to base the new decisions off of. Whether we like it or not, this is baseball now.

 
Epic Problem said:
To add to this....

For just about the entire month of September, this guy sat Muncy and Bellinger vs LHP. Today,  in the most important game of the year, both are in the lineup and Bellinger's leading off against LHP Wade Miley

Way to set your guys up for success, right?

The only reasoning I can think of this happening is that its the order the names came out of the hat. 
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:lol:

Fn Roberts

 
I see now ... Machado kicks the first basemen in the ankle on his way through.

Did he have an issue with the guy leaving his foot on the bag after the out was called?

Should he have pulled his foot off after he caught the ball?

Machado seemed to be arguing something with him. That's my best guess at what it might be.

 
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