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***Official Philadelphia Phillies Thread*** - Castellanos ****s wit Philly (5 Viewers)
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TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@ToddZolecki: Phillies sign Jerome Williams to a one-year, $2.5 million deal. http://t.co/NlfibSAaLt
Take THAT NL East!
Take THAT NL East!
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Seems like they are maybe finally getting it: http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/gillick-phillies-not-contender-2015-or-2016
Eephus
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
AJ declines option, will become a FA. 
hew:
Rosenthal: A.J. Burnetts agent, Darek Braunecker: We do expect that he will pitch in 15. For a contender.
9:40pm - 3 Nov 14
Zing!
hew:Rosenthal: A.J. Burnetts agent, Darek Braunecker: We do expect that he will pitch in 15. For a contender.
9:40pm - 3 Nov 14
Zing!
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
this is literally unbelievable.AJ declines option, will become a FA.
Rosenthal: A.J. Burnetts agent, Darek Braunecker: We do expect that he will pitch in 15. For a contender.
9:40pm - 3 Nov 14
Zing!
Eephus
Footballguy
Burnett's player option was for $7.5M. Both teams had to agree for the full $15M value to roll over. The Phillies have to pay him $1M to go away.this is literally unbelievable.AJ declines option, will become a FA.
Rosenthal: A.J. Burnetts agent, Darek Braunecker: We do expect that he will pitch in 15. For a contender.
9:40pm - 3 Nov 14
Zing!
For as bad as he pitched for Philadelphia in 2014, a guy who can give a team 200 IP is worth something. Burnett and Braunecker are gambling that it's worth more than $6.5M.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Both the Phils and AJ already declined their mutual options on Saturday. Today AJ declined his player option for 12.75m.Burnett's player option was for $7.5M. Both teams had to agree for the full $15M value to roll over. The Phillies have to pay him $1M to go away.this is literally unbelievable.AJ declines option, will become a FA.
Rosenthal: A.J. Burnetts agent, Darek Braunecker: We do expect that he will pitch in 15. For a contender.
9:40pm - 3 Nov 14
Zing!
For as bad as he pitched for Philadelphia in 2014, a guy who can give a team 200 IP is worth something. Burnett and Braunecker are gambling that it's worth more than $6.5M.
Eephus
Footballguy
Well then good ###### luckBoth the Phils and AJ already declined their mutual options on Saturday. Today AJ declined his player option for 12.75m.Burnett's player option was for $7.5M. Both teams had to agree for the full $15M value to roll over. The Phillies have to pay him $1M to go away.this is literally unbelievable.AJ declines option, will become a FA.
Rosenthal: A.J. Burnetts agent, Darek Braunecker: We do expect that he will pitch in 15. For a contender.
9:40pm - 3 Nov 14
Zing!
For as bad as he pitched for Philadelphia in 2014, a guy who can give a team 200 IP is worth something. Burnett and Braunecker are gambling that it's worth more than $6.5M.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
exactly.Both the Phils and AJ already declined their mutual options on Saturday. Today AJ declined his player option for 12.75m.Burnett's player option was for $7.5M. Both teams had to agree for the full $15M value to roll over. The Phillies have to pay him $1M to go away.this is literally unbelievable.AJ declines option, will become a FA.
Rosenthal: A.J. Burnetts agent, Darek Braunecker: We do expect that he will pitch in 15. For a contender.
9:40pm - 3 Nov 14
Zing!
For as bad as he pitched for Philadelphia in 2014, a guy who can give a team 200 IP is worth something. Burnett and Braunecker are gambling that it's worth more than $6.5M.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
nope. was on the 03 team though.
edit: though he must have had a season-ending injury in April.
edit: though he must have had a season-ending injury in April.
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Eephus
Footballguy
Thanks to the largesse of the Steinbrenners, Burnett earned $135M over his career in spite of unspectacular numbers (5 games over .500, 103 ERA+, 2.26 SO/W). For a guy who at one time had a reputation for getting hurt a lot, he managed to have a pretty long career.
His B-R comps list includes some very familiar names
Andy Benes (955)
Barry Zito (940)
Kevin Millwood (923)
Javier Vazquez (920)
Tim Belcher (919)
Kevin Gross (917)
Kevin Appier (914)
Joe Coleman (914)
Steve Renko (912)
Rick Sutcliffe (908)
His B-R comps list includes some very familiar names
Andy Benes (955)
Barry Zito (940)
Kevin Millwood (923)
Javier Vazquez (920)
Tim Belcher (919)
Kevin Gross (917)
Kevin Appier (914)
Joe Coleman (914)
Steve Renko (912)
Rick Sutcliffe (908)
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Zito made $137 million, Vazquez made 99, and Millwood 88.
i had totally forgotten about AJ's Toronto stint, somehow, until looking him up today.
i had totally forgotten about AJ's Toronto stint, somehow, until looking him up today.
Eephus
Footballguy
Asche looked pretty good defensively at 3B the few times I've seen him. Ruf and Maikel Franco would be other in-house alternatives.
Balco
Footballguy
Wonder if they can ship off Utley and Rollins. Not sure of their no trade clauses.
I would look to trade everyone except Hamels.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Yeah, I thought Ruf was in line to be the next 1B for the Phils. Asche would be their 3B.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@CSNPhilly: Jamie Moyer is leaving the #Phillies' broadcast booth after one season. More: http://t.co/CoxCLRWyOE
Insein
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
So apparently Amaro told Tomas' agent that he couldn't make an offer until he cleared salary.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The Cole trade talk is killing me. I can't believe they'd deal him.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
If they had a competent GM, it would be worth consideration. With Amaro at the helm, it could be suicide for the franchise.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
If the report is to be believed that he told Tomas' agent he had to clear salary before making an offer than its obvious he's a puppet to the ownership.
E-Z Glider
Footballguy
I prefer the rumor that Tomas was Rube/Monty's guy and that Middleton/Gillick put the kibosh on the whole thing because they're getting ready to clean house.Bigboy10182000 said:
Billy Bats
Footballguy
THANK YOU JIMMY!!!!!!!!!!!
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Wow
Amused to Death
Footballguy
So has Amaro completely screwed up dealing Hamels? I don't follow the MLB off-season very closely.
Eephus
Footballguy
Here's a very interesting Hardball Times piece analyzing the failures of the Phillies organization. HT argues the teams' inability to draft and develop talent has been a much bigger factor than their trades and free agent acquisitions. Even the prospects they've traded away haven't been very good.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
no doubt. They had plenty of money. They won because they had a great core of 1B-2B-SS-C-SP + Madson who came up through their system. As they aged, they had no new talent to come up anywhere.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
that is a great article. I've thought about the question of dollars per WAR in terms of FA vs. arbitration players just in general, but this is a great application of it.
Eephus
Footballguy
The only question I have about the methodology is whether they should somehow index WAR to the number of players providing them. WAR is related to playing time; it's impossible to contribute wins when in the minors or on the bench. It's pretty obvious that the Phillies haven't produced much home-grown talent but the extremely low WAR totals for their cost-controlled players is also a factor of them not getting opportunities with the big club. I suppose it doesn't matter for an extreme case like Philadelphia but applying the same analytical approach to less of an outlier might be a problem.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Not a bad point. I suppose it would be more fair to say WAR/games played or something.
In the end, I'm not sure that it would make that much of a difference. If you are good enough, you would play. There were 4 positions (maybe even 5-6 considering Chooch's suspension and decline and Howard's injury) that could have been taken by anyone in the past 4-5 years. And maybe if a SS or 2B prospect were there, they would have been willing to part with Rollins or Utley (though it still seems unlikely). There were also plenty of pitching opportunities. I think over a 10-year span, most teams will probably even out in terms of opportunity and/or talent forcing a team's hand.
In the end, I'm not sure that it would make that much of a difference. If you are good enough, you would play. There were 4 positions (maybe even 5-6 considering Chooch's suspension and decline and Howard's injury) that could have been taken by anyone in the past 4-5 years. And maybe if a SS or 2B prospect were there, they would have been willing to part with Rollins or Utley (though it still seems unlikely). There were also plenty of pitching opportunities. I think over a 10-year span, most teams will probably even out in terms of opportunity and/or talent forcing a team's hand.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Did Jimmy ever get traded? What's going on?
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Supposedly the Padres and Dodgers are still waiting for official clearance from MLB regarding the cash being exchanged in their deal (which always has to get MLB approval), which means that the Rollins' trade can't be made official since Zach Elfin needs to officially become a Dodger first.
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Captain Hook
Footballguy
Far from over so a Hamels deal is still possible and I think likely - two teams that clearly have the prospects to get it done are the Red Sox who still don't have a staff ace and have numerous prospects and ML outfielders they can deal and the Dodgers who have the prospects to do the deal IF they want to (same could be said about the Rangers but somehow I don't see them willing to spend the money this year)
Balco
Footballguy
I don't know where I heard it, I think it was MLB radio, but during one of the updates, they said the Phillies like Joe Kelly in a deal for Hamels. I just don't get the love for Joe Kelly, at all. Obviously they want other prospects, just found it odd Kelly was mentioned.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
Balco
Footballguy
Who are the others? Bogarts? Brock Holt? I am sure one of the Red Sox' AAA pitching prospects.
