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***Official***President Donald Trump (1 Viewer)

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Trump already did poop on your table (figuratively) and touched other people's wives and kids inappropriately (literally).

Also, if Trump got us world peace, I would love him, but he is already tearing the world apart, so...

Apples and Oranges, but hey... support the guy who talks about his one year olds breasts and then expect not to be judged.

Yes, I still support the deletion of emails.

 
Boston also needs to touch fire to know it is hot and ice to know it is cold.
I chuckle when people see whats happening and still are so naive.
Guess some have to see what a person who hates public education does to the Dept of Education and what a person who loves oil does to the EPA.
I also like the red Chuckles more than the dark purple ones. Scrumchess!

 
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WheelsUp said:
Boston also needs to touch fire to know it is hot and ice to know it is cold.
I chuckle when people see whats happening and still are so naive.
I also like the red Chuckles more than the dark purple ones. Scrumchess!
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It's not naivety, it's rationalization.  

 
Boston said:
I chuckle about how the left wants Trump voters to criticize him...why don't you wait until he is actually President and we actually see how his appointments perform and the actual results of his policies once they are actually implemented...this is like fantasy politics where many seem to already know the results before anything has been done...kind of reminds me of the pre-election analysis and projections...
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Because he is already taking actions as president-elect that have consequences.  

Nominating a guy who was deemed too racist to be a federal judge 30 years ago to the highest law enforcement position in the country at a time of significant tension between African-Americans and law enforcement has consequences.

Going on a "thank you" tour that only stops in states he won instead of focusing on unifying the country and learning about your new job after the election like the president-elect usually does has consequences.

Not having press conferences has consequences.

Refusing to release financial information that would allow the public to see any potential conflicts of interest has consequences.

Besides, it's a silly premise to begin with.  I don't remember anyone saying we have to wait to see what Clinton does as president before we pass judgment on her integrity, policies, potential conflicts of interest, etc.

 
The President-elect does not care what his constituents think?
I wonder if you even realize how bad of a remark you just made was.

 
We are so far past the point of reasonable and rational discussion all I can do is laugh at everything they say in such a condescending way.
How can anyone who is educated look at what Trump has done and defend him?
You defend him being in bed with Russia, for what? What do you gain by selling your soul in life to defend a guy many educated people say is messing up?
On both sides? What do you gain by telling everyone who specialize in these issues and are trying to inform you to screw off?
Why do you put up a fight with people who are so concerned, when this man will hurt you just the same?
Why defend this? What do you gain from defending a guy who puts us all in harms way?

 
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WheelsUp said:
The President-elect does not care what his constituents think?
I wonder if you even realize how bad of a remark you just made was.
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Trump: "Now it's time for America to bind the wounds of division — have to get together," "To all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation, I say it is time for us to come together as one united people."

Anti-Trumpers : You are a racist xenophobic homophobe Nazi!

 
TobiasFunke said:
Because he is already taking actions as president-elect that have consequences.  

Nominating a guy who was deemed too racist to be a federal judge 30 years ago to the highest law enforcement position in the country at a time of significant tension between African-Americans and law enforcement has consequences.

Going on a "thank you" tour that only stops in states he won instead of focusing on unifying the country and learning about your new job after the election like the president-elect usually does has consequences.

Not having press conferences has consequences.

Refusing to release financial information that would allow the public to see any potential conflicts of interest has consequences.

Besides, it's a silly premise to begin with.  I don't remember anyone saying we have to wait to see what Clinton does as president before we pass judgment on her integrity, policies, potential conflicts of interest, etc.
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While I do view you as an ideologue who will criticize everything he does there are some legit points here...he should not be given a free pass...that being said would you agree that his opponents are not giving him any benefit of the doubt and are in a non-stop criticism mode?

 
WheelsUp said:
We are so far past the point of reasonable and rational discussion all I can do is laugh at everything they say in such a condescending way.
How can anyone who is educated look at what Trump has done and defend him?
You defend him being in bed with Russia, for what? What do you gain by selling your soul in life to defend a guy many educated people say is messing up?
On both sides? What do you gain by telling everyone who specialize in these issues and are trying to inform you to screw off?
Why do you put up a fight with people who are so concerned, when this man will hurt you just the same?
Why defend this? What do you gain from defending a guy who puts us all in harms way?
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Are you so obtuse to think I am defending him?  

 
jon_mx said:
I am not sure he does so much.   Trump is more of an attention whore.  As long as he is the center of attention he is happy. 
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You must have missed the steady stream of tweets and lies since the election about the popular vote count because he can't stand the notion that anyone perceives his triumph as anything less than complete or that more people voted for Clinton than for him.

 
Dr Oadi said:
Trump: "Now it's time for America to bind the wounds of division — have to get together," "To all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation, I say it is time for us to come together as one united people."

Anti-Trumpers : You are a racist xenophobic homophobe Nazi!
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Talk is cheap. Name one thing that Trump is doing or even plans to do to unite the country after waging the single most divisive campaign in modern American political history.

 
Jon, clearly you dont support Trump from you remark, but the way you worded it did. So... dont be obtuse to how people can take things. I'm not your keeper to keep track of who you support.

 
Boston said:
While I do view you as an ideologue who will criticize everything he does there are some legit points here...he should not be given a free pass...that being said would you agree that his opponents are not giving him any benefit of the doubt and are in a non-stop criticism mode?
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I'm not an ideologue unless you consider being able to identify a complete and utter piece of #### as such to be an ideology.  Politically I'm more center-left, as the Sanders supporters here would tell you.

And no, I don't think that's true. It's just that he's consistently abhorrent.  For example, when he whittled down the list of SoS possibilities a bunch of us anti-Trumpers said we'd be fine with Corker or Romney and we're ready to give him credit for picking one of them.  Instead he went with an Exxon CEO with close ties to Putin and no experience in diplomacy or the public sector.  What would you have us do at that point?  Not call a turd a turd just because we want to throw the president-elect a bone?

 
from Anthony Bordain interview: "And Trump — the man eats his steak well done! I don’t think he’s a good person. I remember the Central Park Five, and what he said. I’ve seen how he’s treated employees. I saw what he did to Atlantic City. I saw what he did to the west side of this town. It’s ####in’ ugly. He’s going to make the whole world look like the back of Rick James’ van."

http://www.eater.com/2016/12/21/14038332/anthony-bourdain-election-trump-interview

 
JIslander said:
from Anthony Bordain interview: "And Trump — the man eats his steak well done! I don’t think he’s a good person. I remember the Central Park Five, and what he said. I’ve seen how he’s treated employees. I saw what he did to Atlantic City. I saw what he did to the west side of this town. It’s ####in’ ugly. He’s going to make the whole world look like the back of Rick James’ van."

http://www.eater.com/2016/12/21/14038332/anthony-bourdain-election-trump-interview
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Seems like unfair criticism to me.  Except for the well done steak though.  That's inexcusable. 

 
Baldwin impersonating Trump makes him look bad, that is what Trump doesn't like.
He is like any sociopath.

Think Tony Soprano.

 
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Righetti said:
By the way, Boeing is now saying that they will make the new AF1 for under $4 billion.  
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We have no verification of the original cost.

Btw this a waste of a president's time, no he really shouldn't be personally negotiating vendor contracts even if he does save a few hundred million.

 
At this point in time, I'm extremely "prejudiced" against Trump. I think he's earned my dislike and distrust a hundred times over. But if he can repeal ACA and replace it with something better, I'll grudgingly give him his due (other examples also apply). The caveat is that I won't consider millions of people losing coverage while some FBG's insurance premium goes down fitty bucks a month a success at all.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
We have no verification of the original cost.

Btw this a waste of a president's time, no he really shouldn't be personally negotiating vendor contracts even if he does save a few hundred million.
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He's not the President yet and I see no problem with him trying to save millions. It's better than other politicians that don't give a rear end about how much money is spent.

 
Fantasy Football Fairy said:
He's not the President yet and I see no problem with him trying to save millions. It's better than other politicians that don't give a rear end about how much money is spent.
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He sure acted as president before he is so.

I'm all for deficit reduction but this is micromanagement on a Jimmy Carter level, it's a sign of wasted effort when he should be focused on other things.

 
Henry Ford said:
Alec Baldwin impersonating him makes him the center of attention.  He doesn't like it one bit.
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His reaction to the SNL stuff strikes me as "the lady doth protest too much".  I'm guessing they've hit a little too closely to the mark at times. 

 
The lesson of today:

How to Convince Someone When Facts Fail

Have you ever noticed that when you present people with facts that are contrary to their deepest held beliefs they always change their minds? Me neither. In fact, people seem to double down on their beliefs in the teeth of overwhelming evidence against them. The reason is related to the worldview perceived to be under threat by the conflicting data.

Creationists, for example, dispute the evidence for evolution in fossils and DNA because they are concerned about secular forces encroaching on religious faith. Anti-vaxxers distrust big pharma and think that money corrupts medicine, which leads them to believe that vaccines cause autism despite the inconvenient truth that the one and only study claiming such a link was retracted and its lead author accused of fraud. The 9/11 truthers focus on minutiae like the melting point of steel in the World Trade Center buildings that caused their collapse because they think the government lies and conducts “false flag” operations to create a New World Order. Climate deniers study tree rings, ice cores and the ppm of greenhouse gases because they are passionate about freedom, especially that of markets and industries to operate unencumbered by restrictive government regulations. Obama birthers desperately dissected the president's long-form birth certificate in search of fraud because they believe that the nation's first African-American president is a socialist bent on destroying the country.

In these examples, proponents' deepest held worldviews were perceived to be threatened by skeptics, making facts the enemy to be slayed. This power of belief over evidence is the result of two factors: cognitive dissonance and the backfire effect. In the classic 1956 book When Prophecy Fails, psychologist Leon Festinger and his co-authors described what happened to a UFO cult when the mother ship failed to arrive at the appointed time. Instead of admitting error, “members of the group sought frantically to convince the world of their beliefs,” and they made “a series of desperate attempts to erase their rankling dissonance by making prediction after prediction in the hope that one would come true.” Festinger called this cognitive dissonance, or the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts simultaneously.

Two social psychologists, Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson (a former student of Festinger), in their 2007 book Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me) document thousands of experiments demonstrating how people spin-doctor facts to fit preconceived beliefs to reduce dissonance. Their metaphor of the “pyramid of choice” places two individuals side by side at the apex of the pyramid and shows how quickly they diverge and end up at the bottom opposite corners of the base as they each stake out a position to defend.

In a series of experiments by Dartmouth College professor Brendan Nyhan and University of Exeter professor Jason Reifler, the researchers identify a related factor they call the backfire effect “in which corrections actually increase misperceptions among the group in question.” Why? “Because it threatens their worldview or self-concept.” For example, subjects were given fake newspaper articles that confirmed widespread misconceptions, such as that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. When subjects were then given a corrective article that WMD were never found, liberals who opposed the war accepted the new article and rejected the old, whereas conservatives who supported the war did the opposite ... and more: they reported being even more convinced there were WMD after the correction, arguing that this only proved that Saddam Hussein hid or destroyed them. In fact, Nyhan and Reifler note, among many conservatives “the belief that Iraq possessed WMD immediately before the U.S. invasion persisted long after the Bush administration itself concluded otherwise.”

If corrective facts only make matters worse, what can we do to convince people of the error of their beliefs? From my experience,

1. keep emotions out of the exchange,

2. discuss, don't attack (no ad hominem and no ad Hitlerum),

3. listen carefully and try to articulate the other position accurately,

4. show respect,

5. acknowledge that you understand why someone might hold that opinion, and

6. try to show how changing facts does not necessarily mean changing worldviews. These strategies may not always work to change people's minds, but now that the nation has just been put through a political fact-check wringer, they may help reduce unnecessary divisiveness.
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-convince-someone-when-facts-fail/?print=true

 
Boston said:
While I do view you as an ideologue who will criticize everything he does there are some legit points here...he should not be given a free pass...that being said would you agree that his opponents are not giving him any benefit of the doubt and are in a non-stop criticism mode?
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Disagree on the last question.

 The Mattis appointment received almost universal praise.  There were concerns about the volume of generals adding Mattis caused, but that a different general should be removed to make room for Mattis if that was a problem.  

There was defense of Chao's appointment - even though she's McConnell's wife, there was agreement she's qualified for the position.

When there were logical guesses at the short list for Secretary Of State, there was praise for some of the names on it.

Could you be specific about a couple criticisms you think are off-base?  

How well do you think the cabinet appointments reflect his "Drain The Swamp" campaign rhetoric?  I think the cabinet and senior staff is the opposite of that.  I see a bunch of billionaires, big donors, early supporters, generals, a group people either so unqualified to do their jobs in will be a disaster or so conflicted it's difficult to believe they are acting in the best interests of the country.

The proposed cabinet is the least-educated we've had since a large pool of postgraduate candidates became available.  It's also by far the wealthiest - the President-Elect and his cabinet have more money than at least the bottom third of the country, probably close to bottom 40%.  The cabinet also lacks diversity compared to other cabinets of this generation, which wouldn't be a problem if the picks were a meritocracy, but it is so clear they are not.  Even the diversity picks are head-scratchers: should we not criticize naming a neurosurgeon who has never held a government job and has no private sector experience in real estate or housing to run HUD?

 
Duck Duck Goose in the Trump Cabinet/Administration:

Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Billionaire, Millionaire..................................

Ben Carson runs around table..............

At least Johnny Lunchbox and Mary Homemaker got the swamp drained. 

 
St. Louis Bob said:
Ichan is a horrible person. Can we all agree on that? 
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Unfortunately this point was brushed over. But for all of the working class people who helped Trump get elected - this has to be a very disappointing appointment, right? 

 
BustedKnuckles said:
so is this your new set of self rules?
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Actually, this was my old set of self rules. I've said multiple times in this thread about the inability to communicate factual and logical info to a Trumper. The study re: WMDs and Iraq is spot on and helped me realize that sometimes, facts make it worse and threatens their world view. Makes total sense as to why DJT has such a strong following - when he can literally poo on their table and be okay with it. He represents (and reassures) their belief that government is corrupt, that MSM is spoon-feeding us, etc.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
He sure acted as president before he is so.

I'm all for deficit reduction but this is micromanagement on a Jimmy Carter level, it's a sign of wasted effort when he should be focused on other things.
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Also, it was started by Trump lashing out at Boeing because they publicly expressed concern about Trump's proposed trade policy.  Let's not pretend Trump and Bannon found this issue like they were Kevin Kline and Charles Grodin scrutinizing the budget and found potential waste in the next generation of Air Force One.

 
My name's Andrew Sheppard, and I AM the President of the United States.

ETA: Dang! Wrong President movie!

 
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Bruce Dickinson said:
Also, it was started by Trump lashing out at Boeing because they publicly expressed concern about Trump's proposed trade policy.  Let's not pretend Trump and Bannon found this issue like they were Kevin Kline and Charles Grodin scrutinizing the budget and found potential waste in the next generation of Air Force One.
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Personally, I don't think that the content of Trump's tweets are random anymore but are strategic. Timing? Distraction. Content? There's a reason for it. IIRC, he has someone tweeting for him (heard a story a few weeks ago on NPR)

 
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