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I've been wanting to buy another property for months, cash in hand, but everything here is selling high and fast.  I'm tempted to sell some, but then wouldn't know what to do with the funds.

Buying with a friend can work, but will have its downfalls.  Just clearly figure out who is responsible for what and stick to it.

I wouldn't worry too much about tying up all your cash in one property.  Buy it then open an equity line if thats what you want to do.

And yes, get market rent.  You may have to give a 30, 60,or 90 day notice.  I've had my last few places rented before they were ready, and have people calling/messaging me daily looking.  

 
Need some advice. I'm considering putting my home up for sale. My kids have destroyed my house and it needs probably $25K of work to make it even presentable to list. The carpet is beyond trashed with stains everywhere. The yard needs a complete overhaul.

My wife thinks we'd never recover that $25K in a sale and should just list it as is. Like a fixer-upper project. I think our place looks like a dump, but with some money invested we could get back top dollar. Who's right?

 
Need some advice. I'm considering putting my home up for sale. My kids have destroyed my house and it needs probably $25K of work to make it even presentable to list. The carpet is beyond trashed with stains everywhere. The yard needs a complete overhaul.

My wife thinks we'd never recover that $25K in a sale and should just list it as is. Like a fixer-upper project. I think our place looks like a dump, but with some money invested we could get back top dollar. Who's right?
Find the top three listing agents in your area and get their opinions. Without knowing your market, I would say you're right. You may not recover all of the money invested but it should sell a lot quicker.

 
Need some advice. I'm considering putting my home up for sale. My kids have destroyed my house and it needs probably $25K of work to make it even presentable to list. The carpet is beyond trashed with stains everywhere. The yard needs a complete overhaul.

My wife thinks we'd never recover that $25K in a sale and should just list it as is. Like a fixer-upper project. I think our place looks like a dump, but with some money invested we could get back top dollar. Who's right?
It's an item by item list imo.  Most of the time, you don't get back the cost of an improvement via sale... but there are different ROIs for everything and that includes how bad the current condition is from a perception and reality point of view. 

There may be a couple key projects that might at least come close to a wash and get you a quicker sale without spending a ton more than you can recover.

Also consider individual preference when making these decisions. I.e., if it's a project that won't cost too much and would get you most dollars back and is "taste neutral" - if you say pick something that some may love but others not like, you may be in a worse position to meet more buyers wants and needs so some items might better be left to the buyer so they can put their taste and fingerprint on it. 

 
Good questions. 

1) we would each be putting up our full share in cash.  Obviously we will try to negotiate this place down.

2) splitting net profits 50/50

3) 50% each

4) Both is my thought, but we have not gotten to that point yet.  I wouldnt do it without both.

5) I think so.  We are buying these properties in the area that my partner and I both grew up.  He is still in the area so easy for him to go fix anything we dont need to hire anyone for, plus to keep an eye on the place.  He is a realtor, so drives around town often so wont be a problem to drive past every so often.   It also allows me to diversify more since we can purchase more places together than I could on my own.  And, it saves on the realtor fee side as well.
Sounds like you are on the right track IF you want to do this.

2) Net profits: I would think your friend would want a fee for managing...5% of gross rents is probably reasonable since prop managers charge one-months rent to lease out a unit and 8-10% of gross rents collected thereafter; you should account for this in your projections as it's $1200 off the top on your $24,000 year gross example. 5% vacancy and 5% repairs is reasonable. All-cash investment looks to be about 7%/yr for rental income. Folks in CA , Portland, Seattle, etc would prob kill for this because of appreciation potential.

Our offers include 4% in commissions to purchase a property (3% to selling agent and 1% to my agent partner for sourcing). Most listings will be at 6-7% so he'll have to negotiate that down to 4% with the 2-3% haircut coming from his buyer-agent split (he'll get 1% if it's not his listing). Same thing if you sell...4% with 3% going to buyer's agent even if it is him.

3) Equity: I would consider a LLC where both you and friend are equal members with survivor rights. The LLC would own the props. Tax treatment to pass-through 50/50 after his management fee is accounted for. In Michigan it's $50 to set up and $25/year to keep it active.

4) The LLC could be on the deed if you set one up. This helps with liability if you follow strict money in/out guidelines.

You asked what a reasonable return was. I would not own anything long-term in mid-west without an 8% annual return before taxes. Appreciation would be gravy but I don't expect it. Any less and the hassle factor and worry is not worth it to me. You can easily earn 11-12% with land contract financing as opposed to rental properties but you typically do not get capital appreciation if market continues north. That 11-12% is much simpler than managing tenants. Tenants can be hard on property and move; LC buyers typically do not.

Best of luck with your decision. I hope my input has helped in some small way.

 
Need some advice. I'm considering putting my home up for sale. My kids have destroyed my house and it needs probably $25K of work to make it even presentable to list. The carpet is beyond trashed with stains everywhere. The yard needs a complete overhaul.

My wife thinks we'd never recover that $25K in a sale and should just list it as is. Like a fixer-upper project. I think our place looks like a dump, but with some money invested we could get back top dollar. Who's right?
Take this advice with a grain of salt as I am not realtor, but take care of the obvious eye sores while spending as LITTLE as you possibly can.  There are some things you can put money into that will give you a positive net gain, and they are pretty much all obvious stuff.  For a few examples:

- fix holes in the walls. 

- put up a door if there is no door

- paint a room if it looks like total trash

- if a carpet is stained, try and clean it (look up products online), use rental steam cleaner if need be (do this anyway on all the carpet)

- fix any flooring that got holes or patches missing or whatever

- do the basic obvious landscaping like mow the yard, rip out the weeds, take care of anything that looks stupid.  

Do all these fixes cheaply, but make sure when they are done that it takes care of the obvious problems.  Almost the same concept as if you buy a fixer upper and need to get it rented quickly.  You could realistically drop 4-5 grand on stuff and see a 20 grand difference than if you just list it as-is.  Of course, market depending with all this.

 
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I've been wanting to buy another property for months, cash in hand, but everything here is selling high and fast.  I'm tempted to sell some, but then wouldn't know what to do with the funds.
Oh the horror  :banned:

I have been tempted to go into business with one or two of my friends that are skilled handymen where I buy up as much property as I can and pay them to fix everything as well as have them on salary for upkeep.  

I only have 2 rentals right now though.  I probably need at least 10 or more to make this any sort of worth it since I would need to commit to being able to pay them a decent sum each year if they are going to be able to guarantee me their time that I will need.  I am sure there are a lot of ins and outs of this I havent thought of yet.  It seems like a good idea on the surface but would probably be a disaster.  Who knows.

 
I think I asked this before, but can I take a HELOC on my current rental (I own it outright, and they told me I was approved for 100% the value for a HELOC) and use it to buy a new rental? 

I remember the answer being yes, just wanted to make sure.

 
And you guys think its easy, lol.  This was a for a house I was selling...

"Please see attached repair addendum as well as inspection report so your seller(s) may make reference to the inspector's findings.

The decking and main electric line requests are both safety hazards. The bathroom flooring issue is a structural issue that is not just cosmetic as it needs to be addressed immediately. And as mentioned, there were tons of cockroaches found on 2nd and 3rd floors and droppings/dead mice found throughout the basement, pest treatment of entire property is necessary.

Any questions give me a shout- thanks!"

:yucky:

 
And you guys think its easy, lol.  This was a for a house I was selling...

"Please see attached repair addendum as well as inspection report so your seller(s) may make reference to the inspector's findings.

The decking and main electric line requests are both safety hazards. The bathroom flooring issue is a structural issue that is not just cosmetic as it needs to be addressed immediately. And as mentioned, there were tons of cockroaches found on 2nd and 3rd floors and droppings/dead mice found throughout the basement, pest treatment of entire property is necessary.

Any questions give me a shout- thanks!"

:yucky:
Burn it down, collect insurance.  Buy a bunch of rare collectible sports cards first, over insure them, leave at a friends house, claim them.  Sell later.  

 
I think I asked this before, but can I take a HELOC on my current rental (I own it outright, and they told me I was approved for 100% the value for a HELOC) and use it to buy a new rental? 

I remember the answer being yes, just wanted to make sure.
You can do whatever you want with your HELOC as far as the bank is concerned (a HELOC is not a loan, its a line of credit).  And on the purchasing end, its a cash purchase so there's much less paperwork and lower closing costs. 

 
PIK95 said:
And you guys think its easy, lol.  This was a for a house I was selling...

"Please see attached repair addendum as well as inspection report so your seller(s) may make reference to the inspector's findings.

The decking and main electric line requests are both safety hazards. The bathroom flooring issue is a structural issue that is not just cosmetic as it needs to be addressed immediately. And as mentioned, there were tons of cockroaches found on 2nd and 3rd floors and droppings/dead mice found throughout the basement, pest treatment of entire property is necessary.

Any questions give me a shout- thanks!"

:yucky:
new decking - $500

new electrical drop - $500

re support some floor joists - $500

exterminator - $500

These issues alone wouldn't keep me from buying.

 
You guys ever taken any certificate courses or gone for CCIM designation to try to sharpen up assuming you invest in more than residential? Feeling like I want to invest in getting better in all segments but looking for an option that's money well spent? Saw Cornell has an online certificate you can work towards for commercial real estate and looked at CCIM awhile back, didn't know if you guys pursued anything similar that was well worth it?

 
leftcoastguy7 said:
Need some advice. I'm considering putting my home up for sale. My kids have destroyed my house and it needs probably $25K of work to make it even presentable to list. The carpet is beyond trashed with stains everywhere. The yard needs a complete overhaul.

My wife thinks we'd never recover that $25K in a sale and should just list it as is. Like a fixer-upper project. I think our place looks like a dump, but with some money invested we could get back top dollar. Who's right?
I agree with the other replies in that $25,000 of renos probably won’t get you a proper ROI but $25,000 is also an overestimate for the work it sounds like you have to do. I think less than $5k you could take care of most of it for the purpose of this.

You can completely tear out all the carpet and put in laminate flooring cheap. Lowe’s and Home Depot almost always have something decent on sale for around a dollar a square foot. Laminate is very quick and easy to install. Then as long as you don’t have any major holes in the walls, you can just putty and sand drywall holes then throw up some paint. “Contractor” packs of baseboards are cheap and just leave them white. 

Cleaning up a yard is cheap as long as you don’t have a badly leaning fence. Again some paint and the fence will look presentable. Then, like GhostGuy said, it’s just pulling weeds and such. 

Unless there is something major that you didn’t list, none of this is a big project. If you do have questions YouTube is your best friend and there’s a FFA thread here with people who can help you. 

 
You guys ever taken any certificate courses or gone for CCIM designation to try to sharpen up assuming you invest in more than residential? Feeling like I want to invest in getting better in all segments but looking for an option that's money well spent? Saw Cornell has an online certificate you can work towards for commercial real estate and looked at CCIM awhile back, didn't know if you guys pursued anything similar that was well worth it?
Not here. What kind of real estate are you interested in investing in, GB?Residential or commercial? What capacity, lender, developer, GC, passive investor, active investor?

I'm intimidated by commercial because, despite the economy, there always seems to be so many empty units that I'm afraid that I would get stuck with a turd.

 
The other day I noticed on Zillow that the house two houses down from mine is getting foreclosed on.  There is an auction next month. Since I only have a couple houses on my block, she is really one of the only people I talk to, though not very frequently.  My next door neighbor is closer to her than me, and they weren’t aware of the situation either.  According to the auction information there was a second mortgage put back on the house in 2011 with an original mortgage taken out in 2008.  I’m not sure why she didn’t refinance when rates dropped but it’s not my business.  I feel bad but I don’t know what to say, if anything.  Should I say/do anything?

 
Not here. What kind of real estate are you interested in investing in, GB?Residential or commercial? What capacity, lender, developer, GC, passive investor, active investor?

I'm intimidated by commercial because, despite the economy, there always seems to be so many empty units that I'm afraid that I would get stuck with a turd.
We do some new home construction and own some commercial properties (Office mostly) we built and kept before the downturn cut us down pretty good. Also have some self storage and interest in on apartment building so try to look at all options and always looking to sharpen up. 

 
The other day I noticed on Zillow that the house two houses down from mine is getting foreclosed on.  There is an auction next month. Since I only have a couple houses on my block, she is really one of the only people I talk to, though not very frequently.  My next door neighbor is closer to her than me, and they weren’t aware of the situation either.  According to the auction information there was a second mortgage put back on the house in 2011 with an original mortgage taken out in 2008.  I’m not sure why she didn’t refinance when rates dropped but it’s not my business.  I feel bad but I don’t know what to say, if anything.  Should I say/do anything?
A couple of years ago a Realtor called me for some advice.  He had bought a $300,000 property for $20k.  Landlord forgot to pay the HOA dues and it got foreclosed on.  He needed to evict the tenants.  I had previously managed it for the owners, but they thought I was too expensive so they went to self management.  I hoped they saved $280k in fees.

 
We do some new home construction and own some commercial properties (Office mostly) we built and kept before the downturn cut us down pretty good. Also have some self storage and interest in on apartment building so try to look at all options and always looking to sharpen up. 
I'm in the minors compared to you. I finance flips and service other notes out of cash and IRA. Have one small LC left but hit 30-40% apy on a couple $30-40K notes a couple years back. Market a bit thick to be entering now but one can still invest in them at nice 11-12% returns...just have to have time to find them.

 
Question regarding investing in real estate through an LLC:

My SIL set up an LLC for real estate investing to flip houses. She’s done a few already and is now looking for investors to expand how many she can do and go after higher-dollar properties. 

My wife and I are going to send her some $$ for one of her upcoming projects. My question is regarding taxes - does the LLC issue a 1099 to us based on our net earnings? A quick check on Google wasn’t effective but I figured the FFA would know. Thanks in advance. 

 
Question regarding investing in real estate through an LLC:

My SIL set up an LLC for real estate investing to flip houses. She’s done a few already and is now looking for investors to expand how many she can do and go after higher-dollar properties. 

My wife and I are going to send her some $$ for one of her upcoming projects. My question is regarding taxes - does the LLC issue a 1099 to us based on our net earnings? A quick check on Google wasn’t effective but I figured the FFA would know. Thanks in advance. 
You should get a k-1 end of the year. Also make her set up a separate LLC for projects you are partners with her on, make sure it’s not within an LLC that she owns properties with other partners creating more potential liability for your investment. 

 
You should get a k-1 end of the year. Also make her set up a separate LLC for projects you are partners with her on, make sure it’s not within an LLC that she owns properties with other partners creating more potential liability for your investment. 
Great, thanks for the response. Right now this project is the only one she’s taking investors on and we’ll let her know for future ones. 

 
Great, thanks for the response. Right now this project is the only one she’s taking investors on and we’ll let her know for future ones. 
Good luck! Yeah to make it cleaner and limit risk it’s always best to set up a new LLC as the cost is minimal. 

 
House flipguys, interested to hear on the lower end flips what profit margin you are looking for? For example we got a call about a property that could sell $170k, needs $30k of work.....assuming that’s all true what number would you look to get in this property to make it worthwhile? Curious to hear what the norm is, would probably work with someone on this and not sure if there’s enough to be made for two. 

 
House flipguys, interested to hear on the lower end flips what profit margin you are looking for? For example we got a call about a property that could sell $170k, needs $30k of work.....assuming that’s all true what number would you look to get in this property to make it worthwhile? Curious to hear what the norm is, would probably work with someone on this and not sure if there’s enough to be made for two. 
You've got to be in at $110 or less IMO.

 
Good luck! Yeah to make it cleaner and limit risk it’s always best to set up a new LLC as the cost is minimal. 
GB may have meant this, but it's probably worth the nominal investment to set up a new LLC for each project, and those can tie into an "umbrella" LLC that essentially acts as the management company. 

That reduces exposure for any investor to that one project, and can also pay fees to the management LLC if/as needed or desired. 

 
Any here involved with the Incremental Development Alliance ?

Its a fantastic organization and resource for small scale developers. They run really good workshops, have a great Facebook presence and could be beneficial for many in this group.

I know a number of folks involved, including some of their founders, so shoot a PM if you have any questions. 

 
GoBirds said:
Also our market you are paying 3.5% cc and broker bringing deal wants 6% commission so about $16k off the top. You need to make more than $14k right ?

Will other flippers do it for that?
I would say so.  I was thinking in that double number profit that would exclude commission but include carrying cost.

Other flippers may be doing it for that, but NFL (not for long).  Like in the mid 2000's, they may be relying on a rising tide to make it profitable.

 
GoBirds said:
House flipguys, interested to hear on the lower end flips what profit margin you are looking for? For example we got a call about a property that could sell $170k, needs $30k of work.....assuming that’s all true what number would you look to get in this property to make it worthwhile? Curious to hear what the norm is, would probably work with someone on this and not sure if there’s enough to be made for two. 


Most flippers I know want to be in for 70-80% of after repair value minus rehab costs. Gotta leave yourself room for profit and the unknown expenses that will surely pop up.

 
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Most flippers I know want to be in for 70-80% of after repair value minus rehab costs. Gotta leave yourself room for profit and the unknown expenses that will surely pop up.
Can you explain this in more detail?  I'm getting lost on everything.  I read it several times and keep getting different formulas.  Maybe give us an example with the math.

 
Can you explain this in more detail?  I'm getting lost on everything.  I read it several times and keep getting different formulas.  Maybe give us an example with the math.
Yeah for sure. So if he thinks the house is worth $170k when it's done and it's going to cost $30k to get it there, he wants to be in for $89-106k. That's all in.

$170k * 80% = $136k

$136k - 30k = $106k

That seems like a nice profit but you need to factor in the contingency reserves for the rehab, commission to the agent when selling the property and taxes. After accounting for those with a gross $34k profit (at 80% in the scenario above) you're probably looking at around a $16k profit and that's assuming the $30k number for the rehab was accurate. Not a ton of profit for the time and money invested unless it's literally paint, carpet, etc and you can flip it quickly. That's also not accounting for carrying costs if you're using a loan to close on the deal.

The higher you go up in price the closer you can get to the 80% mark because there's more margin for error.

Bigger pockets also has a great flip calculator (as well as many others) that is worth using if you're really want to dive into the details: BP Flip Calculator

 
Yeah for sure. So if he thinks the house is worth $170k when it's done and it's going to cost $30k to get it there, he wants to be in for $89-106k. That's all in.

$170k * 80% = $136k

$136k - 30k = $106k

That seems like a nice profit but you need to factor in the contingency reserves for the rehab, commission to the agent when selling the property and taxes. After accounting for those with a gross $34k profit (at 80% in the scenario above) you're probably looking at around a $16k profit and that's assuming the $30k number for the rehab was accurate. Not a ton of profit for the time and money invested unless it's literally paint, carpet, etc and you can flip it quickly. That's also not accounting for carrying costs if you're using a loan to close on the deal.

The higher you go up in price the closer you can get to the 80% mark because there's more margin for error.

Bigger pockets also has a great flip calculator (as well as many others) that is worth using if you're really want to dive into the details: BP Flip Calculator
Thank you very much, that is extremely helpful explaining it.

 
I'm preparing to purchase my first house (primary residence). How much shopping around should I do for mortgages and interest rates? If I go to a lot of different banks/credit unions to get rates, won't they all be doing credit checks which decreases my credit score? 

 
I'm preparing to purchase my first house (primary residence). How much shopping around should I do for mortgages and interest rates? If I go to a lot of different banks/credit unions to get rates, won't they all be doing credit checks which decreases my credit score? 
Rate shop before you actually apply.  Use something like Credit Karma to get a rough idea of your score. Only apply once you know they have the deal you want.

 
I'm preparing to purchase my first house (primary residence). How much shopping around should I do for mortgages and interest rates? If I go to a lot of different banks/credit unions to get rates, won't they all be doing credit checks which decreases my credit score? 
No. You only get tagged once for each pull by a similar company within 30 days or so.  Shop till you drop

 
I'm preparing to purchase my first house (primary residence). How much shopping around should I do for mortgages and interest rates? If I go to a lot of different banks/credit unions to get rates, won't they all be doing credit checks which decreases my credit score? 
Stay away from banks. They usually are limited in the programs they offer and their officers are usually salary based, meaning they won't work that hard for you. Try and find a experienced mortgage broker that doesn't get paid until you close and will bust their tale for you.  Ask if there are any special programs for first time buyers in your area. Ask local friends if they have a local rep they can recommend.   Congrats and GL.

 
I'm preparing to purchase my first house (primary residence). How much shopping around should I do for mortgages and interest rates? If I go to a lot of different banks/credit unions to get rates, won't they all be doing credit checks which decreases my credit score? 
What state are you in? I may be able to refer you to someone.

Rates are important, to an extent. Other factors are fees, programs available, ability to close on time and whether or not they service their loans.

I'm a loan officer on a high producing team, feel free to PM with any questions.

 
No. You only get tagged once for each pull by a similar company within 30 days or so.  Shop till you drop
what does "shopping" mean exactly.  just googling rates and go with the lowest? Is it worth the time to talk with local lenders or will they all just give a standard sales pitch?

 
what does "shopping" mean exactly.  just googling rates and go with the lowest? Is it worth the time to talk with local lenders or will they all just give a standard sales pitch?
Personally I feel two recommended brokers is plenty, but would give a solid bank contact a shot at the business too.  What I was saying was that talking to 20 people and them pulling credit is no different than talking to one as far as your score goes.  Same applies to car shopping.

 
There is a big difference between a broker and a direct or correspondent lender though. The broker may able to get you a better rate because they have no overhead, but they also have no control over the process. They literally submit the loan package to another company and that's it. It can work out great, but be careful and make sure you have solid recommendations if you go that route. They also don't service their own loans if that's important to you. 

 
So glad this thread is still alive.

I am up to 300+ units,  A 50 unit apartment building, and 200+ units simple walking distance from my back door.  Quality infrastructure, although I am losing my office manager.  What a different life compared to when I first posted here. 

 
Oh fun,  it's going to be another crazy summer.  

House went on the market for $174,900.  Thursday at 9am.

At 11am, we are at the house and a line of four other agents with clients.

At 12:30pm, we send over offer at $183,000.

And just now, I find out we finished 4th out of 19 offers.  Two came in at $190.

So much fun!

 
Oh fun,  it's going to be another crazy summer.  

House went on the market for $174,900.  Thursday at 9am.

At 11am, we are at the house and a line of four other agents with clients.

At 12:30pm, we send over offer at $183,000.

And just now, I find out we finished 4th out of 19 offers.  Two came in at $190.

So much fun!
Wish it was like that with my properties.  I have two on the market and can't move either.

 
Got a little over 11K in it and its listed fsbo for 115.  Probably going to talk to a realtor about listing it soon.

We also had a long term tenant move out of one of nicer sfh, so we are going to remodel and sell that one too.

Hoping to keep the flipping thing going as long as we can pick up decent places cheap.  I've swung and missed on two in the past few weeks.

 
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So glad this thread is still alive.

I am up to 300+ units,  A 50 unit apartment building, and 200+ units simple walking distance from my back door.  Quality infrastructure, although I am losing my office manager.  What a different life compared to when I first posted here. 
How the hell much money does a 50 unit building cost?

On a side note, anyone else feel like property taxes are getting out of hand?

 
Oh fun,  it's going to be another crazy summer.  

House went on the market for $174,900.  Thursday at 9am.

At 11am, we are at the house and a line of four other agents with clients.

At 12:30pm, we send over offer at $183,000.

And just now, I find out we finished 4th out of 19 offers.  Two came in at $190.

So much fun!
I have never heard of anything like this near where I live.

 

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