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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (2 Viewers)

BobbyLayne said:
You can't make it up:

Russian General Vladimir Shamanov declared the news of radiation poisoning from Chornobyl forest a fake because during WW2 there was an intense guerrilla activity there and nobody got any radiation poisoning.
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Technically correct is the best type of correct. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
You can't make it up:

Russian General Vladimir Shamanov declared the news of radiation poisoning from Chornobyl forest a fake because during WW2 there was an intense guerrilla activity there and nobody got any radiation poisoning.
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Whenever I think this record of incompetence and general foolery can’t get any dumber, Russia goes and does something like this.

And they totally redeem themselves! This has to be in the running for most idiotic statement uttered by a military leader in the past 30 years. It’s so dumb it physically hurts me to read it, and I’ve read the Twilight books.

 
Natasha Bertrand

@NatashaBertrand

· 9h

“The worst was in the basement of the dacha. ‘We found 18 bodies in there,’ he said. ‘They had been torturing people. Some of them had their ears cut off. Others had teeth pulled out. There were kids like 14, 16 years old, some adults.’” twitter.com/louiseelisabet…

 
KingPrawn said:
Natasha Bertrand

@NatashaBertrand

· 9h

“The worst was in the basement of the dacha. ‘We found 18 bodies in there,’ he said. ‘They had been torturing people. Some of them had their ears cut off. Others had teeth pulled out. There were kids like 14, 16 years old, some adults.’” twitter.com/louiseelisabet…
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I know not a lot of people here give credence to prayer, but I find comfort in Psalms 35:4-8, “4 Let them be put to shame and dishonor who seek after my life! Let them be turned back and disappointed who devise evil against me! 5 Let them be like chaff before the wind, with the angel of the Lord driving them away! 6 Let their way be dark and slippery, with the angel of the Lord pursuing them! 7 For without cause they hid their net for me; without cause they dug a pit for my life. 8 Let destruction come upon him when he does not know it! And let the net that he hid ensnare him; let him fall into it—to his destruction!”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭35:4-8‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 
KingPrawn said:
Natasha Bertrand

@NatashaBertrand

· 9h

“The worst was in the basement of the dacha. ‘We found 18 bodies in there,’ he said. ‘They had been torturing people. Some of them had their ears cut off. Others had teeth pulled out. There were kids like 14, 16 years old, some adults.’” twitter.com/louiseelisabet…
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Just saw a video on instagram of Vitali Klitchsko showing civilians lying in the street with their hands tied behind their backs, shot in the head. Wtf???

 
Kal El said:
Are they trying to make themselves slower targets? Because that’s how you make yourselves slower targets.
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Look, it worked just fine in WWI. Current technology isn't geared to deal with biplanes. It stands to reason they will be able to fly unscathed around Ukraine dropping bombs, by hand I'm sure, whilst wearing a long, flowy white scarf and a leather helmet & goggles.

If the Ukrainians were smart, they'd enlist the services of this guy to counter the threat.

 
I just don't get the line of thinking that goes into those that round up and execute randoms like this.  

What sort of depraved mindset must exist for such a thing?  I want to choose words carefully here, so bear with me, but the hatred for Jews was centuries in the making.  Is there some sort of age old beef I'm not aware of here to push genocide like this?

 
Serbia @ Lithuania (🏀)

Pregame, the Lithuanian players held a long “Stop War” banner styled in the Ukrainian flag colors

The Serbian players stood next to them at center court but refused to hold the banner. Crowd booed loudly and chanted “F*** You Serbia” throughout the game

(for context - Russia and Serbia are both predominantly Slavic and Eastern Orthodox countries, sharing a strong mutual cultural affinity)

 
beer 30 said:
Look, it worked just fine in WWI. Current technology isn't geared to deal with biplanes. It stands to reason they will be able to fly unscathed around Ukraine dropping bombs, by hand I'm sure, whilst wearing a long, flowy white scarf and a leather helmet & goggles.

If the Ukrainians were smart, they'd enlist the services of this guy to counter the threat.
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I agree with Jobber's take. Use of crop dusters seems more suited for spreading chemicals than hand dropping bombs.

 
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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I would not go. 

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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no way

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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I'm one of the most risk tolerant people I know and even I wouldn't do this.  Way too many unknown variables of which you can have zero control or mitigate.

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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Not a chance. There’s no head to that army, and they are committing horrific atrocities. A strong majority of the Russian public supports going to Poland next. I would convince the Polish family to come visit me, to be honest…

 
Jaysus said:
Not with a family, no. 
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ChiefD said:
I would not go. 
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need2know said:
no way
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Jayrod said:
I'm one of the most risk tolerant people I know and even I wouldn't do this.  Way too many unknown variables of which you can have zero control or mitigate.
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The Football Freak said:
Not a chance. There’s no head to that army, and they are committing horrific atrocities. A strong majority of the Russian public supports going to Poland next. I would convince the Polish family to come visit me, to be honest…
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I tend to agree with you guys, but I don't have the emotional attachment.  My wife, on the other hand, is gonna be a harder sell.  Thanks to COVID and some other things, she hasn't been home since 2018, and her mom has a number of different health issues that make it extremely difficult to her to make a 9- or 10-hour flight.

 
gruecd said:
I tend to agree with you guys, but I don't have the emotional attachment.  My wife, on the other hand, is gonna be a harder sell.  Thanks to COVID and some other things, she hasn't been home since 2018, and her mom has a number of different health issues that make it extremely difficult to her to make a 9- or 10-hour flight.
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Yeah, that's the hard part. That part of her family needs to see that baby. (and you guys of course).

If there any way they can travel more into Poland as kind of a bufffer? Like can you put them on a train or something a few hundred miles away and spend some time at a hotel with them?

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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Yes

 
It's probably safe to go - the war is shifting to the other side of Ukraine, and Russia appears to be in no shape to expand the war for quite some time.

It'd be a hell of a thing to be wrong about, though.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I really don’t see the risk. Russia isn’t going to invade Poland. 

It seems important to your wife. I think you should do what she wants in this case.
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I was going to also say "yes." It's important to your wife, and given the situation, it will be a profoundly meaningful experience.  And consider: What if you don't go and something happens, health-wise, to your MIL, or more generally due to an extension of the conflict?  Your wife would be forever distraught about not traveling back home.

 
nysfl2 said:
It's probably safe to go - the war is shifting to the other side of Ukraine, and Russia appears to be in no shape to expand the war for quite some time.

It'd be a hell of a thing to be wrong about, though.
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I'm in the "yes*" camp.  The asterisk for me is because RIGHT NOW, I'd say it's safe...but things could change in a moment.  I'd err on the side of caution when you're there though - the slightest concern and I'd be on the first flight home.

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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It’s probably as safe as possible, considering the situation unfolding nearby. Russia isn’t going to invade, but keep your eyes open.

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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A contractor friend of mine is Polish and he and his wife are going around the same time. I'm not exactly sure which city they are going to. They debated, but they haven't seen family for so long they are making the trip.

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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I was surprised by all the replies saying no to this.  I think it is perfectly safe for you to go and don't see that changing, and if it does, there should be plenty of warning that Russia would be planning something with enough time for you to change your plans.  As it stands, they are getting pushed back out of Ukraine and I don't think they have the capability to push anywhere else even if they wanted to. 

 
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Kal El said:
Are they trying to make themselves slower targets? Because that’s how you make yourselves slower targets.
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I believe they are using them to get the Ukrainians to reveal their anti-aircraft positions.

There were reports today that Russia is using their inexperienced soldiers and equipping them with old weapons to get Ukraine army to expose their positions. I can seethe same strategy regarding the bi-planes

 
Thanks for all the comments, guys. We ended up deciding to push the trip back a few months and go in September instead. 

 
KingPrawn said:
I believe they are using them to get the Ukrainians to reveal their anti-aircraft positions.

There were reports today that Russia is using their inexperienced soldiers and equipping them with old weapons to get Ukraine army to expose their positions. I can seethe same strategy regarding the bi-planes
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They already used their inexperienced soldiers in the ground forces and are losing, this isn’t going to help them change that. I’m fairly sure a biplane can get shot down with a machine gun, they’re not about to waste a missile on something containing less technology than it does.

 
gruecd said:
My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland.  We have tickets to go with our 15-month-old to visit her family in May.  Would you guys feel safe going?  If you're not familiar with the geography, Lublin is in SE Poland, only about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.  As of right now, it's more or less status quo, except for all the Ukrainian refugees being there.
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I woulda went but I understand the hesitancy. The war will be no where near Lublin and as noted by other posters the war is going in the other direction now. Also, Russia wouldn't attack Poland, even by accident.

I see you've moved it back, it's the smart move. I'm 57, overweight, have very little to live for so me wanting to travel to an area near a war zone should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

 
So frustrating seeing the crimes going on. It was bad enough when it was just (seemingly) some civilian collateral damage at the very beginning. I realize we can’t just nuke Moscow or anything but seems like no military response to people bound and shot in the street is sort of inhuman. I know this isn’t the first conflict with these atrocities but ugh……

 
3 hour lunch said:
So frustrating seeing the crimes going on. It was bad enough when it was just (seemingly) some civilian collateral damage at the very beginning. I realize we can’t just nuke Moscow or anything but seems like no military response to people bound and shot in the street is sort of inhuman. I know this isn’t the first conflict with these atrocities but ugh……
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I just cannot believe in 2022 we are still having countries cross boarders in order to take land.  This feels so antiquated and out of place.  The atrocities against civilians is barbaric.  I thought we were better than this overall now.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I just cannot believe in 2022 we are still having countries cross boarders in order to take land.  This feels so antiquated and out of place.  The atrocities against civilians is barbaric.  I thought we were better than this overall now.
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Even our country has taken several steps backwards in regard to civility in recent years. Hopefully we/they at least learn from this.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I just cannot believe in 2022 we are still having countries cross boarders in order to take land.  This feels so antiquated and out of place.  The atrocities against civilians is barbaric.  I thought we were better than this overall now.
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Never forget, right? I keep seeing it on social media. Guess what? We forgot! 77 years ago, never forget the Holocaust. Hell Russia lost more people in WWII than everyone else combined, never forget. How many genocides since then? Every one of them...never forget.

Humanity has a real short memory. Never forget indeed.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I just cannot believe in 2022 we are still having countries cross boarders in order to take land.  This feels so antiquated and out of place.  The atrocities against civilians is barbaric.  I thought we were better than this overall now.
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The Russians are still living in the 1700s, whether it be land grabs, torture or sieges turning cities to rubble.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I just cannot believe in 2022 we are still having countries cross boarders in order to take land.  This feels so antiquated and out of place.  The atrocities against civilians is barbaric.  I thought we were better than this overall now.
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E-Z Glider said:
Even our country has taken several steps backwards in regard to civility in recent years. Hopefully we/they at least learn from this.
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Jobber said:
The Russians are still living in the 1700s, whether it be land grabs, torture or sieges turning cities to rubble.
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The vast majority of the world is stuck in 2nd and 3rd world countries where might still makes right and corruption and violence are normal every day activities.  Basically almost all of Africa, much of South and Central America and vast portions of Asia aren't even as advanced as Western Europe and North America were at the turn of the last century, much less the current one.  DR Congo, Somalia, Uganda, Venezuela, Guatemala, Afghanistan, Myanmar, etc. are all horrific places filled with unstable governments, plague-like disease outbreaks, murderous gangs and extreme poverty.  Then there are Russia, China and North Korea (over 1.6 billion people) where the government controls everything they watch, read and hear so the minds of that entire population are essentially brainwashed to what the leaders want them to believe.

Our brand of civility and values is actually the minority in the world today.

 
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Leeroy Jenkins said:
I just cannot believe in 2022 we are still having countries cross boarders in order to take land.  This feels so antiquated and out of place.  The atrocities against civilians is barbaric.  I thought we were better than this overall now.
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Unfortunately we still have too many extreme narcissistic people running countries 

 
Interesting take I just saw on the unit that was stationed in Bucha that is thought to have committed most of the atrocities we're seeing now. They were moved back to Russia but are being sent back to the front lines to make sure they don't talk by getting them all killed in the meat grinder. Seeing how Russia operates, it wouldn't surprise me.

It's also just speculation so no links but I could see it. 

 
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