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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jayrod
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I wonder what the make up of the separatist groups are. Are they ethnically Ukrainian or Russian? I am sure there is no 100% answer to that but I do wonder if they are overwhelmingly Russian and if not, I wonder what the Ukrainian motives are to be in those groups.
I’m not a clairvoyant, but people far smarter than I said it could take years for this to end. It’ll take less if someone in Russia grows a set and rids themselves of Vlad.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I’ve got a perfectly good French WW2 rifle for sale. It’s only been thrown down once.
True story, I’ve been hunting with an old Winchester .30-30 that was the only thing that survived a house fire near my grandpa’s farm in WV. Still fired, I even shot my only deer with it. Still, that’s against an animal, not another human with superior weaponry pointed back at me.
beer 30
Footballguy
And it’s still better than “follow that man with a rifle, when he goes down, pick up his rifle and keep moving forward”. Not much but a little.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Ukraine appears to have won the Battle of Kharkiv.
Only Mariupol has endured a more horrific bombardment than Kharkiv. It is Ukraine's second largest city and it stood up like a fortress without all the military assets that were devoted to the win in Kyiv. This has been an awesome story for about a week. The victory is more Russia's decision to give up than Ukraine winning battles, but like in Kyiv, Ukraine has chased Russia in retreat, and right across the border. Ukraine has even been lobbing artillery into Russia. Wooot.
Hopefully they don't find a trail of atrocities in Russia's wake like north of Kyiv. Russia is again regrouping and sending these retreaters into the Donbas where fighting has favored Russia for the most part (that bridge failure notwithstanding).
Also this past week in the Donbas and Kherson region has marked the fiercest fighting of this war. Mostly standoffs, but Russia does control a half dozen major metropolises, those key ports and some 40-50 towns (a # that expands daily).
Also also, our US howitzers are finally engaging and those small towns will be falling back to Ukraine shortly.
@Kal El"not very long" looking better atm!
Only Mariupol has endured a more horrific bombardment than Kharkiv. It is Ukraine's second largest city and it stood up like a fortress without all the military assets that were devoted to the win in Kyiv. This has been an awesome story for about a week. The victory is more Russia's decision to give up than Ukraine winning battles, but like in Kyiv, Ukraine has chased Russia in retreat, and right across the border. Ukraine has even been lobbing artillery into Russia. Wooot.
Hopefully they don't find a trail of atrocities in Russia's wake like north of Kyiv. Russia is again regrouping and sending these retreaters into the Donbas where fighting has favored Russia for the most part (that bridge failure notwithstanding).
Also this past week in the Donbas and Kherson region has marked the fiercest fighting of this war. Mostly standoffs, but Russia does control a half dozen major metropolises, those key ports and some 40-50 towns (a # that expands daily).
Also also, our US howitzers are finally engaging and those small towns will be falling back to Ukraine shortly.
@Kal El"not very long" looking better atm!
culdeus
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
With the exception of having hair, he sure looks like a cancer patient there. Since the reasons for a coup are military failures (for the most part), I'm not sure how to take this. His PM is a hawk like him and would legally replace him temporarily. If better military minds want him out, because military failure leads to Russia's collapse, what are they planning? Something other than failure I should think. Unintended consequences could be bad here.
To his point that Russia hasn't found a response to Finland and Sweden applying for Nato... Erdogon is saying no to both.
The debate over this has been educational and kinda wild. Comments in that link touch on it.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Yea.... I can't see any other Russian that would continue to go all in with a pair of 2's when everyone knows your hand and you can't bluff but Putin won't push back from the table.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Russian Annexation of Occupied Ukriane
Putin's unacceptable offramp, NUKES.
Nukes, war games that always conclude nukes are coming, bla bla bla... is why i remain so grim about where this is headed.
Putin's unacceptable offramp, NUKES.
Nukes, war games that always conclude nukes are coming, bla bla bla... is why i remain so grim about where this is headed.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Turkey being Turkey.
It has warmed up to Russia over the past few years.
It wants to continue it's oppression of the Kurds and the Scandinavians have given done support to them.
Positioning to get concessions like getting the F-35's again which they lost out on the sale fie to buying Russian surface to air missile defenses etc.
I think it is more posturing to get stuff out of it than anything plus continue to get friendly with Russia without further pissing off the West.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Russian empty threat incoming…@KyivIndependent:️Finland officially announces that it will apply for NATO membership.
Finnish President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin made the announcement at a joint news conference.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I saw the Dutch are sending their upgraded versions of the M113 which are slated to be replaced to the Ukrainians.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Vladimir Putin - your Showcase Showdown bid was a quick victory over Ukraine and preventing others from joining NATO. Showcase showdown price is....UKRAINE IS STILL FIGHTING AND FINLAND WILL JOIN NATO.@KyivIndependent:
Finnish President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin made the announcement at a joint news conference.
Mr. Putin, you are OVER!!
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
Yup, Sweden was right after Finland and it has been expected that they would be a package deal.
Turkey is posturing to get something out of this. No downside for them and perhaps they get the F-35's back or some other concession. Plus, they get brownie points from Moscow while not really pissing the West off too much. No one seems to think that it will be a significant issue. Finland and Sweden would not move ahead unless they had a high level of confidence of not only approval but it being ratified quickly.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
the threats empty or not, are russia has "no choice" but to use tactical nukes should nato bases be established in finland or sweden. "no choice" was used for weeks leading up to the invasion. dangerous times.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
sabotage of enlistment offices in russia
put down public protests and this follows. a half dozen russian police stations have been set afire too.
a book publisher that was printing propaganda also burned. a week ago i googled 23 different fires that seemed like possible "protest arson". One was just a typical fire. 18 seemed likely protests. 3 were close enough to the Ukrainian border to be special forces joining the game. one was all the way across the country on a eastern military base. mysterious but also likely russian protesters.
put down public protests and this follows. a half dozen russian police stations have been set afire too.
a book publisher that was printing propaganda also burned. a week ago i googled 23 different fires that seemed like possible "protest arson". One was just a typical fire. 18 seemed likely protests. 3 were close enough to the Ukrainian border to be special forces joining the game. one was all the way across the country on a eastern military base. mysterious but also likely russian protesters.
Russia isn’t going to do anything, because they are bullies, and now the world knows how cowardly they truly are. They have no friends of significance in the region(Belarus is a puppet state, it doesn’t count), and even China is keeping at least some distance while still spouting off their rhetoric. They’re not going to rescue Russia, and Russia won’t use nukes, because to do so is a death sentence for Moscow and the nearest 2 time zones. I know Vlad has claimed that he’s fine with taking as many as he can with him, but he’s not suicidal. Genocidal, but not suicidal. All he has are empty threats, and his army dying by the scores.
Jobber
Footballguy
Putin involved in war ‘at level of colonel or brigadier’, say western sources
Welcome back to 1944 I guess?
Welcome back to 1944 I guess?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Nobody tell Vlad what’s happened to a bunch of other Russian generals in this conflict.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
That is out of context so not what he said. He said he has no problem with Finland and Sweden. As in, at the moment, ya know.
Follow the story to Russian language media and that warning is a tactical nuclear threat.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Just a couple days ago our DNI (director of national security) disagreed with you. She agreed at the moment there is no evidence Putin is about to use Nukes. She said he is settling in for a protracted war and focussing on the 8 year old objective in the Donbas and expanding his current Crimean landbridge to the separatists in Moldova. She then stated should Putin suspect an existential threat to his regime, or if he should come to believe Russia was losing, then his nuclear options would be in play.
Ukraine is determined to take back Crimea. The use of nuclear weapons is codified in Russian law should Crimea come under attack. Putin is moving to annex Donetsk, Luhansk and Kherson rather than establishing puppet statelets. In doing so they will fall under the same laws as Crimea.
People like hearing takes like yours. It feels good. It's what we want to be. It's the sugar-coated western narrative. But it isn't reflective of just how precarious this situation really is. Back to the DNI's recent grilling in DC, she said the next two months in the Donbas are gonna be ugly.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
i feel like i am in the movie don't look up sometimes
JaxBill
Footballguy
Sounds like a suicide in the making
@francis_scarr: In an extremely rare moment of candour on Russian state TV today, defence columnist Mikhail Khodaryonok gave a damning assessment of Russia's war in Ukraine and his country's international isolation. It's fairly long but worth your time so I've added subtitles. https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882/video/1
@francis_scarr: In an extremely rare moment of candour on Russian state TV today, defence columnist Mikhail Khodaryonok gave a damning assessment of Russia's war in Ukraine and his country's international isolation. It's fairly long but worth your time so I've added subtitles. https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882/video/1
Here’s the problem that I see: Russia is going to lose all of the territory they have attempted to steal from Ukraine, because they don’t have the manpower or the equipment to actually hold it. Now, Putin could see this as an “existential threat to his power” and could consider the use of nuclear weapons, but that means his own nation is destroyed in the process. I know he said he doesn’t care about a world without Russia, but I think he wants to stay alive. Opening that door dooms him and his supposed legacy, and I think he knows that.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
I wonder if he has to say that, because admitting that those countries joining NATO is a problem is implicitly admitting that his invasion of Ukraine is a failure, or at least, is having unforeseen negative consequences.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
No no. He's not making suicidal statements. I've watched that show, I dunno, 2 dozen times. It is very common, not extremely rare as the twitterer states, for someone to "take the other side". It is all scripted. It is never live. It is approved by the state media apparatus before airing. So this piece is good news. Russian state media, with approval from above, is being truthful to the Russian people. In past shows where this same guy, or another opposing the war, gets time to make his points, he is regularly beat back with pro Russia bs. Of course, we don't get the rebuttals in that twit clip, but I've never heard such a definitive explanation of Russia's problems as that before. Nice.
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
By nuclear warheads being launched against Russia. The moment Vlad launches a nuke, there’s at least one on its way back.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Neither us nor Nato can simply press the button. Too much legal beauracracy in the way and too much debate about the right course of action. Because Russia sends a tactical nuke to a military installation near its border does in no way mean we go all psycho thermonuclear global war to end the world. Many analysts have made this point. It's the stupidest thing we could do. He has thousands more. I don't claim to know how we would respond militarily, just that we will not send one back instantly. The world will instantly be changed, and what's next everywhere unpredictable.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Mariupol is about to fully fall. A rare "victory: for the Russians though the time and forces that were tied up holding the Aziovstol Steel Plant could be seen as a victory of sorts for the Ukranians.
Also, apparently unvonfirmed reports of a Russian operated S-300 anti-aircraft missiles were fired on Israeli F-16's duringa bombing raid in Syria. Reportedly there was never a radar lock so it wasn't in real danger. That is odd to me... why waste the S-300's without a radar lock? Are the Russians that incompetent? Was this a warning shot for Israel? Will they use the S-400's (in theatre) and actually target next time?
Also, apparently unvonfirmed reports of a Russian operated S-300 anti-aircraft missiles were fired on Israeli F-16's duringa bombing raid in Syria. Reportedly there was never a radar lock so it wasn't in real danger. That is odd to me... why waste the S-300's without a radar lock? Are the Russians that incompetent? Was this a warning shot for Israel? Will they use the S-400's (in theatre) and actually target next time?
beer 30
Footballguy
Given what we've seen over the last few months in Ukraine, this is rhetorical, yes?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Russia considers leaving WHO and WTO amongst other World organisations
It’s like Putin's goal is North Koreafication
It’s like Putin's goal is North Koreafication
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I mean... my first thought was that this had to be manned by Syrians but then looking at what has happened in Ukraine, I was caught myself... it is hard to reconcile 40 something years of belief that the Russians were peer or near peer to us to the complete ridiculous nature of their true capability as shown in Ukraine. I am continuously impressed with their incompetence.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Russia is a 4 year old that was told that no, they can't drive the car, somehow got the keys and crashed the car and is now having a temper tantrum because they are not being taken to McDonalds for lunch so they go breaking their own toys.
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