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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jayrod
- Start date
A plan that only benefits Russia...what a ****ing joke.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
US 'peace proposal' includes Russianisms prompting questions about authorship of text - analysis
>>>Some of the phrases in the US’s “peace proposal” for Ukraine appear to have been originally written in Russian. In several places the language would work in Russian but seems distinctly odd in English.
The third point of the 28-point plan reads: “It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and Nato will not expand further.”
“It is expected” is a clunky passive construction in English. The Russian version – ожидается or ozhidayetsya – makes more sense and is a familiar verb form.
Other Russianisms that appear to have crept into the text include неоднозначности (ambiguities) and “закрепить” (to enshrine).
The White House has acknowledged Kirill Dmitriev, Vladimir Putin’s envoy, wrote the proposal together with Donald Trump’s special representative Steve Witkoff. The pair hammered out the text during a meeting in Miami.
Ukraine and its European partners were excluded from the drafting process.
+++
At the European Commission’s midday briefing, we have just been given a confirmation of António Costa’s earlier comments that the EU had not been “officially communicated” the US-Russian plan on Ukraine before it was made public.
There also a repeated hint that von der Leyen could be speaking to Zelenskyy very soon, and we are told to “stay tuned” on this.
We are now getting more confirmations of the call, also via sources to AFP and Reuters.<<<
>>>Some of the phrases in the US’s “peace proposal” for Ukraine appear to have been originally written in Russian. In several places the language would work in Russian but seems distinctly odd in English.
The third point of the 28-point plan reads: “It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and Nato will not expand further.”
“It is expected” is a clunky passive construction in English. The Russian version – ожидается or ozhidayetsya – makes more sense and is a familiar verb form.
Other Russianisms that appear to have crept into the text include неоднозначности (ambiguities) and “закрепить” (to enshrine).
The White House has acknowledged Kirill Dmitriev, Vladimir Putin’s envoy, wrote the proposal together with Donald Trump’s special representative Steve Witkoff. The pair hammered out the text during a meeting in Miami.
Ukraine and its European partners were excluded from the drafting process.
+++
At the European Commission’s midday briefing, we have just been given a confirmation of António Costa’s earlier comments that the EU had not been “officially communicated” the US-Russian plan on Ukraine before it was made public.
There also a repeated hint that von der Leyen could be speaking to Zelenskyy very soon, and we are told to “stay tuned” on this.
We are now getting more confirmations of the call, also via sources to AFP and Reuters.<<<
This is absolutely outrageous. Trump is unwilling to stand up to the aggressor (i.e., Russia) and force them to agree to any concessions, so he’s gonna bully the victim into surrendering.
IMO, Zelensky should reject the deal, and let Trump grapple with the political fallout as the world reacts in horror over him siding with Russia. Ukraine will continue to be backed by the Europeans, and Trump will eventually cave. Basically, it’s a repeat of what happened in February/ March.
IMO, Zelensky should reject the deal, and let Trump grapple with the political fallout as the world reacts in horror over him siding with Russia. Ukraine will continue to be backed by the Europeans, and Trump will eventually cave. Basically, it’s a repeat of what happened in February/ March.
Exclusive: US threatens to cut intel, weapons to press Ukraine into peace deal, sources say
The United States has threatened to cut intelligence sharing and weapons supplies for Ukraine to press it into agreeing to the framework of a U.S.-brokered peace deal, two people familiar with the matter said.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
>>
“$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine… The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine’s reconstruction.”
So America is to receive kickbacks from Russia for the rebuilding of cities, towns and villages pulverized by Russia, using frozen Russian money; and Europe, which has not been consulted on any of this, is to be made to spend more of its own money on Ukraine’s reconstruction. I wonder if the head of Russia’s sovereign wealth fund has reckoned with which of the siloviki will be expropriated here, to the enrichment of the U.S. government.<<
Michael Weiss
“$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine… The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine’s reconstruction.”
So America is to receive kickbacks from Russia for the rebuilding of cities, towns and villages pulverized by Russia, using frozen Russian money; and Europe, which has not been consulted on any of this, is to be made to spend more of its own money on Ukraine’s reconstruction. I wonder if the head of Russia’s sovereign wealth fund has reckoned with which of the siloviki will be expropriated here, to the enrichment of the U.S. government.<<
Michael Weiss
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
>>
The Financial Times confirmed such a 28 point-plan and some of the grimmer details. Ukraine would have to cede to Russia the remainder of Donbas: previously deemed a non-starter by Kyiv and certified as such by a mapping-tossing Trump who tried to sell that plan to Zelensky when the Ukrainian president was last in Washington. It would have to cut the size of its standing army in half. It would have to forfeit certain weapons systems, especially long-range missiles that can reach Russia, and reduce its dependency on U.S. security assistance. Also, no foreign troops would be allowed on Ukrainian soil. The Russian language and Russian Orthodox Church would also have been guaranteed status by Kyiv. All of these provisions, needless to add, are longstanding maximalist Russian demands, which the U.S. had previously rejected, most recently after Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s fruitless discussion with Sergei Lavrov as the preliminary for the now-scotched Budapest summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin.
There was no mention of what Ukraine would get from this grand bargain, which seemed to be the point of emphasis in all the leaks. It was a Russian wish-list.
NBC News and the Wall Street Journal both noted that while Witkoff may have been driving the car, he had co-passengers. The plan, now described as a “blueprint” for ending the war, “was worked out” by Rubio, Witkoff and Jared Kushner, according to the Journal, citing unnamed U.S. officials. NBC reported that the president “this week approved” all 28 points, citing one unnamed “senior administration official.”<<
- Weiss article
So, you see, the president’s son in law is now involved as he was in Gaza, where the model is the president’s company will be brought in to reconstruct Ukraine.
The Financial Times confirmed such a 28 point-plan and some of the grimmer details. Ukraine would have to cede to Russia the remainder of Donbas: previously deemed a non-starter by Kyiv and certified as such by a mapping-tossing Trump who tried to sell that plan to Zelensky when the Ukrainian president was last in Washington. It would have to cut the size of its standing army in half. It would have to forfeit certain weapons systems, especially long-range missiles that can reach Russia, and reduce its dependency on U.S. security assistance. Also, no foreign troops would be allowed on Ukrainian soil. The Russian language and Russian Orthodox Church would also have been guaranteed status by Kyiv. All of these provisions, needless to add, are longstanding maximalist Russian demands, which the U.S. had previously rejected, most recently after Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s fruitless discussion with Sergei Lavrov as the preliminary for the now-scotched Budapest summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin.
There was no mention of what Ukraine would get from this grand bargain, which seemed to be the point of emphasis in all the leaks. It was a Russian wish-list.
NBC News and the Wall Street Journal both noted that while Witkoff may have been driving the car, he had co-passengers. The plan, now described as a “blueprint” for ending the war, “was worked out” by Rubio, Witkoff and Jared Kushner, according to the Journal, citing unnamed U.S. officials. NBC reported that the president “this week approved” all 28 points, citing one unnamed “senior administration official.”<<
- Weiss article
So, you see, the president’s son in law is now involved as he was in Gaza, where the model is the president’s company will be brought in to reconstruct Ukraine.
So, basically, US and Russian gangsters put together what looks a lot like a protection racket, where they’re gonna extort Ukraine into surrendering and split the spoils of war in exchange for “security agreements”.
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
ashamed to be an American with this. Why would anyone ever want to be our ally.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
NYT’s Kim Barker in Ternopil (short video)
- Russia has been striking apartment buildings like this across Ukraine.
- Russia has been striking apartment buildings like this across Ukraine.
fatness
Footballguy
Atlantic article: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2025/11/trumps-war-peace/685024/
article archived: https://archive.ph/psN5A
article archived: https://archive.ph/psN5A
Putting aside the infuriating incompetence on display from the US here, hopefully this will have the positive side effect of convincing Europe that they seriously need to start taking responsibility for their own defense. If we're abandoning our commitments maybe they'll finally step up.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Trump officials' meeting with Russian in Miami spurs questions about Ukraine proposal
>>Washington, Nov 22 (Reuters) - U.S. officials and lawmakers are increasingly concerned about a meeting last month in which representatives of the Trump administration met with Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian envoy who is under U.S. sanctions, to draft a plan to end the war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.
The meeting took place in Miami at the end of October and included special envoy Steve Witkoff, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and Dmitriev, who leads the Russian Direct Investment Fund, one of Russia's largest sovereign wealth fund.
A close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Dmitriev has taken a leading role in talks with the U.S. about the war and has met with Witkoff several times this year. The Trump administration issued a special waiver to allow his entry, a senior U.S. official told Reuters.
The meeting resulted in a 28-point plan for ending the war, two people familiar with the situation said. The plan, which was made public this week by Axios, came as a surprise to U.S. officials in various corners of the administration and has stirred confusion at embassies throughout Washington and in European capitals.
It has also prompted criticism from the Ukrainians and their allies for appearing heavily tilted toward Russian interests, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy vowing on Friday that he would not betray Ukraine's interests.
The meeting resulted in a 28-point plan for ending the war, two people familiar with the situation said. The plan, which was made public this week by Axios, came as a surprise to U.S. officials in various corners of the administration and has stirred confusion at embassies throughout Washington and in European capitals.
It has also prompted criticism from the Ukrainians and their allies for appearing heavily tilted toward Russian interests, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy vowing on Friday that he would not betray Ukraine's interests.
The document, which calls for major concessions from Ukraine, appears to run counter to the tougher stance the Trump administration has lately taken toward Moscow, including with sanctions on its energy sector.
It is unclear whether Dmitriev came to the meeting in Miami with certain Russian demands and whether those were incorporated into the peace plan.
Two people familiar with the meeting said Rustem Umerov, secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, was also in Miami early this week to discuss the plan with Witkoff.
One source familiar with the situation said Witkoff told Umerov about the plan during that visit and that the United States gave the plan to Ukraine via the Turkish government on Wednesday, before directly presenting it in Kyiv on Thursday.
Witkoff, Kushner, Dmitriev and the Ukrainian embassy in Washington also did not respond to requests for comment.
White House spokeswoman Karoline Leavitt said in a statement that any peace plan "must offer security guarantees and deterrence for Ukraine, Europe and Russia" and offer economic incentives to both Ukraine and Russia.
"This plan was crafted to reflect the realities of the situation, and to find the best win-win scenario, where both parties gain more than they must give," she said.
Trump said on Friday that he expected Zelenskiy to sign onto the plan by Thursday's Thanksgiving holiday. The U.S. has warned Ukraine it could curb military assistanceif it does not sign, Reuters has reported.
In an address on Friday night, Zelenskiy announced talks with Ukraine's partners on steps to end the war.
"Our representatives know how to protect Ukraine's national interests and what exactly is needed to prevent Russia from carrying out a third invasion, another blow to Ukraine," he said.
Trump said on Saturday the proposal was not his final offer, signaling potential room for adjustments as Ukraine and its European allies stressed that the plan could serve as a foundation for negotiations but required significant changes.
SOME OFFICIALS CAUGHT OFF GUARD
Many senior officials inside the State Department and on the National Security Council were not briefed, the two people familiar with the plan said. Special Envoy for Ukraine Keith Kellogg, who had been working with the Ukrainians on negotiating an end to the war and plans to step down in January, was also cut out of the talks led by Witkoff and Dmitriev, they said.
One senior U.S. official said Secretary of State Marco Rubio was read in on the 28-point plan, but did not clarify when he was briefed.
"Secretary Rubio has been closely involved throughout the entire process of developing a plan to end the war in Ukraine. Any insinuation otherwise is completely false," State Department Principal Deputy Spokesperson Tommy Pigott said in a statement. "That includes speaking with both sides of this conflict - many times - to facilitate the ... exchange of ideas to establish a durable peace."
Some U.S. officials and others consulted by Reuters disputed that characterization, with one official saying the plan contains material that the secretary of state has previously rejected.
The situation has sparked worries inside the administration and on Capitol Hill that Witkoff and Kushner skirted the interagency process and that the discussions with Dmitriev have resulted in a plan that favors Russian interests.
It includes demands that Russia has previously made - that Ukraine give up some of its territory in the eastern part of the country that it still controls, recognize Crimea as Russian and pledge not to join NATO.
"This so-called ‘peace plan’ has real problems, and I am highly skeptical it will achieve peace," said Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi, the Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "Ukraine should not be forced to give up its lands to one of the world’s most flagrant war criminals in Vladimir Putin."
Senator Mike Rounds, a Republican, told reporters at a conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on Saturday that Rubio had called him and other senators and suggested that the plan was delivered by Russia to the U.S. and sent to Ukraine. "It is not our recommendation, it is not our plan," Rounds said.
But Rubio later posted on social media that the proposal was authored by Washington. "It is based on input from the Russian side," Rubio wrote on X. "But it is also based on previous and ongoing input from Ukraine."
>>Washington, Nov 22 (Reuters) - U.S. officials and lawmakers are increasingly concerned about a meeting last month in which representatives of the Trump administration met with Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian envoy who is under U.S. sanctions, to draft a plan to end the war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.
The meeting took place in Miami at the end of October and included special envoy Steve Witkoff, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and Dmitriev, who leads the Russian Direct Investment Fund, one of Russia's largest sovereign wealth fund.
A close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Dmitriev has taken a leading role in talks with the U.S. about the war and has met with Witkoff several times this year. The Trump administration issued a special waiver to allow his entry, a senior U.S. official told Reuters.
MEETING RESULTED IN CONTROVERSIAL UKRAINE PEACE PLAN
Dmitriev and his fund were blacklisted by the U.S. government in 2022 following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. The sanctions effectively bar American citizens and companies from dealing with them.The meeting resulted in a 28-point plan for ending the war, two people familiar with the situation said. The plan, which was made public this week by Axios, came as a surprise to U.S. officials in various corners of the administration and has stirred confusion at embassies throughout Washington and in European capitals.
It has also prompted criticism from the Ukrainians and their allies for appearing heavily tilted toward Russian interests, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy vowing on Friday that he would not betray Ukraine's interests.
The meeting resulted in a 28-point plan for ending the war, two people familiar with the situation said. The plan, which was made public this week by Axios, came as a surprise to U.S. officials in various corners of the administration and has stirred confusion at embassies throughout Washington and in European capitals.
It has also prompted criticism from the Ukrainians and their allies for appearing heavily tilted toward Russian interests, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy vowing on Friday that he would not betray Ukraine's interests.
The document, which calls for major concessions from Ukraine, appears to run counter to the tougher stance the Trump administration has lately taken toward Moscow, including with sanctions on its energy sector.
It is unclear whether Dmitriev came to the meeting in Miami with certain Russian demands and whether those were incorporated into the peace plan.
Two people familiar with the meeting said Rustem Umerov, secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, was also in Miami early this week to discuss the plan with Witkoff.
One source familiar with the situation said Witkoff told Umerov about the plan during that visit and that the United States gave the plan to Ukraine via the Turkish government on Wednesday, before directly presenting it in Kyiv on Thursday.
PLAN SEEKS 'BEST WIN-WIN,' WHITE HOUSE SAYS
Umerov has described his role as "technical" and denied that he discussed the plan in substance with U.S. officials. He did not respond to a request for comment.Witkoff, Kushner, Dmitriev and the Ukrainian embassy in Washington also did not respond to requests for comment.
White House spokeswoman Karoline Leavitt said in a statement that any peace plan "must offer security guarantees and deterrence for Ukraine, Europe and Russia" and offer economic incentives to both Ukraine and Russia.
"This plan was crafted to reflect the realities of the situation, and to find the best win-win scenario, where both parties gain more than they must give," she said.
Trump said on Friday that he expected Zelenskiy to sign onto the plan by Thursday's Thanksgiving holiday. The U.S. has warned Ukraine it could curb military assistanceif it does not sign, Reuters has reported.
In an address on Friday night, Zelenskiy announced talks with Ukraine's partners on steps to end the war.
"Our representatives know how to protect Ukraine's national interests and what exactly is needed to prevent Russia from carrying out a third invasion, another blow to Ukraine," he said.
Trump said on Saturday the proposal was not his final offer, signaling potential room for adjustments as Ukraine and its European allies stressed that the plan could serve as a foundation for negotiations but required significant changes.
SOME OFFICIALS CAUGHT OFF GUARD
Many senior officials inside the State Department and on the National Security Council were not briefed, the two people familiar with the plan said. Special Envoy for Ukraine Keith Kellogg, who had been working with the Ukrainians on negotiating an end to the war and plans to step down in January, was also cut out of the talks led by Witkoff and Dmitriev, they said.
One senior U.S. official said Secretary of State Marco Rubio was read in on the 28-point plan, but did not clarify when he was briefed.
"Secretary Rubio has been closely involved throughout the entire process of developing a plan to end the war in Ukraine. Any insinuation otherwise is completely false," State Department Principal Deputy Spokesperson Tommy Pigott said in a statement. "That includes speaking with both sides of this conflict - many times - to facilitate the ... exchange of ideas to establish a durable peace."
Some U.S. officials and others consulted by Reuters disputed that characterization, with one official saying the plan contains material that the secretary of state has previously rejected.
The situation has sparked worries inside the administration and on Capitol Hill that Witkoff and Kushner skirted the interagency process and that the discussions with Dmitriev have resulted in a plan that favors Russian interests.
It includes demands that Russia has previously made - that Ukraine give up some of its territory in the eastern part of the country that it still controls, recognize Crimea as Russian and pledge not to join NATO.
"This so-called ‘peace plan’ has real problems, and I am highly skeptical it will achieve peace," said Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi, the Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "Ukraine should not be forced to give up its lands to one of the world’s most flagrant war criminals in Vladimir Putin."
Senator Mike Rounds, a Republican, told reporters at a conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on Saturday that Rubio had called him and other senators and suggested that the plan was delivered by Russia to the U.S. and sent to Ukraine. "It is not our recommendation, it is not our plan," Rounds said.
But Rubio later posted on social media that the proposal was authored by Washington. "It is based on input from the Russian side," Rubio wrote on X. "But it is also based on previous and ongoing input from Ukraine."
…<<
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Continued..
>>
Dmitriev has previously used his role at RDIF, the sovereign wealth fund, to make inroads with various Western governments and businesses, even amid American sanctions.
The CIA declined to comment about concerns within the intelligence community about Dmitriev.
During the first Trump administration, Dmitriev established contacts with the president’s team to reset relations between Washington and Moscow.
In a 2017 meeting with Erik Prince, the former CEO of Blackwater and a Trump ally, Dmitriev discussed U.S.-Russia relations, according to a Department of Justice report published by Special Counsel Robert Mueller in 2019. Mueller's team was investigating ties between the Trump team and Russia.
The meeting, which took place in the Seychelles, was one of the initial points of contact between Russia and the U.S. after Trump took office.
Prince did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
In a separate meeting with a friend of Kushner’s, Dmitriev drafted a reconciliation plan to strengthen ties between the U.S. and Russia, the report says.
The Mueller team said in its report that it did not establish that the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russians to influence the 2016 election.
Dmitriev also worked directly with Kushner during the first administration. During the pandemic, Dmitriev coordinated with Kushner on the delivery of ventilators to the U.S. The ventilators were provided by RDIF and caused concern among officials at the Treasury Department that the U.S. might be violating its own sanctions, according to a senior U.S. official.
In recent years, Dmitriev has appeared on various American television stations and at events such as the World Economic Forum in Davos to promote the strengthening of trade ties between the U.S. and Russia.
He pushed a similar message at the meeting in Miami, according to public readouts of the meeting.
His visit also included a sit-down with U.S. Representative Anna Luna, a Florida Republican. In the meeting, Dmitriev and Luna spoke about increasing trade ties between the U.S. and Russia. Luna's office did not respond to requests for comment.
The meeting between the two was set earlier in the month amid statements by Luna that she had received Russia's files on assassinated U.S. President John F. Kennedy.
In a video by RIA, one of Russia’s state news agencies, Luna is seen accepting a box of chocolates with Putin’s face inscribed on the front.
The images appear to show Luna and Dmitriev in a conference room at the Faena Hotel in Miami.
The Faena Hotel is owned by Access Industries, a company run by Len Blavatnik, according to the company's website. Blavatnik, who was born in Ukraine and is a dual U.S.-British national, initially earned his money partnering with Viktor Vekselberg, a Russian billionaire sanctioned by the U.S. for his ties to Putin.
Blavatnik fully divested from all Russian assets following Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine, according to his spokesperson.
Witkoff’s company, the Witkoff Group, does business with Blavatnik, including in Miami.<<
>>
CONCERNS ABOUT DMITRIEV
The administration’s discussions with Dmitriev have also worried some inside the intelligence community, a U.S. official familiar with the matter said.Dmitriev has previously used his role at RDIF, the sovereign wealth fund, to make inroads with various Western governments and businesses, even amid American sanctions.
The CIA declined to comment about concerns within the intelligence community about Dmitriev.
During the first Trump administration, Dmitriev established contacts with the president’s team to reset relations between Washington and Moscow.
In a 2017 meeting with Erik Prince, the former CEO of Blackwater and a Trump ally, Dmitriev discussed U.S.-Russia relations, according to a Department of Justice report published by Special Counsel Robert Mueller in 2019. Mueller's team was investigating ties between the Trump team and Russia.
The meeting, which took place in the Seychelles, was one of the initial points of contact between Russia and the U.S. after Trump took office.
Prince did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
In a separate meeting with a friend of Kushner’s, Dmitriev drafted a reconciliation plan to strengthen ties between the U.S. and Russia, the report says.
The Mueller team said in its report that it did not establish that the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russians to influence the 2016 election.
Dmitriev also worked directly with Kushner during the first administration. During the pandemic, Dmitriev coordinated with Kushner on the delivery of ventilators to the U.S. The ventilators were provided by RDIF and caused concern among officials at the Treasury Department that the U.S. might be violating its own sanctions, according to a senior U.S. official.
In recent years, Dmitriev has appeared on various American television stations and at events such as the World Economic Forum in Davos to promote the strengthening of trade ties between the U.S. and Russia.
He pushed a similar message at the meeting in Miami, according to public readouts of the meeting.
His visit also included a sit-down with U.S. Representative Anna Luna, a Florida Republican. In the meeting, Dmitriev and Luna spoke about increasing trade ties between the U.S. and Russia. Luna's office did not respond to requests for comment.
The meeting between the two was set earlier in the month amid statements by Luna that she had received Russia's files on assassinated U.S. President John F. Kennedy.
In a video by RIA, one of Russia’s state news agencies, Luna is seen accepting a box of chocolates with Putin’s face inscribed on the front.
The images appear to show Luna and Dmitriev in a conference room at the Faena Hotel in Miami.
The Faena Hotel is owned by Access Industries, a company run by Len Blavatnik, according to the company's website. Blavatnik, who was born in Ukraine and is a dual U.S.-British national, initially earned his money partnering with Viktor Vekselberg, a Russian billionaire sanctioned by the U.S. for his ties to Putin.
Blavatnik fully divested from all Russian assets following Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine, according to his spokesperson.
Witkoff’s company, the Witkoff Group, does business with Blavatnik, including in Miami.<<
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Trump returns to old theme, hammering Zelensky. - At the same time:
- Rubio met with Senators yesterday & said, no, the US had nothing to do with the plan, per Senators.
- Not long after the State Department spokesman said oh yeah it’s definitely a jointly US-Russia developed plan.
- VP Vance has tweeted out full throated support for the plan.
- Rubio has jetted off to Geneva for negotiations.
- The administration seems completely contradictory in its stances. However Trump is obviously 100% backing it and that is its target audience.
- Rubio met with Senators yesterday & said, no, the US had nothing to do with the plan, per Senators.
- Not long after the State Department spokesman said oh yeah it’s definitely a jointly US-Russia developed plan.
- VP Vance has tweeted out full throated support for the plan.
- Rubio has jetted off to Geneva for negotiations.
- The administration seems completely contradictory in its stances. However Trump is obviously 100% backing it and that is its target audience.
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FarFromHome
Footballguy
Well. Gonna be interesting to see the details of the deal. If it holds.
www.newsweek.com
abcnews.go.com
news.sky.com
Ukraine agrees to peace deal, US official says
www.foxnews.com
Trump Peace Plan: Ukraine Agrees To 'Core Terms', Russia Launches Major Attack—Live Updates
Another round of US-Russia talks on Trump's evolving Ukraine peace plan is due, as war rages on. Follow Newsweek's live coverage.
www.newsweek.com
US official says Ukrainian delegation has agreed with US on terms of potential peace deal
The U.S. has held secret talks in Abu Dhabi with a Russian delegation to discuss a Ukraine peace proposal.
Ukraine war latest: Delicate details must still be sorted out on peace deal, White House says
The White House says delicate details must still be sorted out for a peace deal. Earlier, a Ukrainian official said they broadly agreed to a peace proposal from Donald Trump's administration. Volodymyr Zelenskyy could visit the US as soon as this week. Watch and follow live below.
Ukraine agrees to peace deal, US official says
Ukraine agrees to peace deal, US official says
A U.S. official has confirmed that Ukraine has agreed to a peace deal to end the war against Russia, with just "minor details to be sorted out."
The Murky Plan That Ensures a Future War
Who will benefit from the White House’s 28-point proposal for Ukraine?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
What a mess these people are making. Just rank amateurs
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Witkoff Advised Russia on How to Pitch Ukraine Plan to Trump
>>US presidential envoy Steve Witkoff, fresh from the triumph of the Gaza peace deal, held a phone call last month with a senior Kremlin official to suggest they work together on a similar plan for Ukraine — and that Vladimir Putin should raise it with Donald Trump.
In an Oct. 14 phone call that lasted a little over five minutes, Witkoff advised Yuri Ushakov, Putin’s top foreign policy aide, on how the Russian leader should broach the issue with Trump. His guidance included suggestions on setting up a Trump-Putin call before Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s White House visit later that week and using the Gaza agreement as a way in.<<
>>US presidential envoy Steve Witkoff, fresh from the triumph of the Gaza peace deal, held a phone call last month with a senior Kremlin official to suggest they work together on a similar plan for Ukraine — and that Vladimir Putin should raise it with Donald Trump.
In an Oct. 14 phone call that lasted a little over five minutes, Witkoff advised Yuri Ushakov, Putin’s top foreign policy aide, on how the Russian leader should broach the issue with Trump. His guidance included suggestions on setting up a Trump-Putin call before Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s White House visit later that week and using the Gaza agreement as a way in.<<
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yeah, I don't think there's anything close to a peace deal here. The two sides are too far apart. Hoenstly, this is mostly down to the fickle treatment of supporting Ukraine by the US.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This is Alger Hiss stuff, or what was claimed about Hiss. This is an advisor to the President - really his Kissinger doing airplane diplomacy while Sec. of State is sidelined - guiding America’s arguably primary adversary in how to influence the president. This was the meeting where Trump did a volte-face & abruptly cancelled the Patriots to Ukraine agreement.
fatness
Footballguy
Ukraine war briefing: peace plan ‘fine-tuned’, Trump says, as president backs away from Thursday deadline
This sounds more like a business meeting than a peace negotiation.
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned here, but, as part of the “peace plan”, Putin and Trump are demanding that Ukraine hold elections within 100 days, which is almost certainly being done to get rid of the Zelensky government and install a more malleable one. Then, Putin/ Trump would get whatever they want.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
So, uh, why would Zelenskyy sign on to that plan? Would his parliament have to have a no confidence vote to get him out?
And mfing Jared negotiating this with Putin? GTFO. These grifters are going to sell out American and NATO interests for a real estate deal.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Right, Kushner’s appearance is the tell here.
Zelensky was supposed to be up for re-election in March/ April of 2024, but it’s been on hold because of martial law. Zelensky critics have been using this to claim that he’s not the legitimate head of state. If you follow the MAGA folks, you’d know that they’ve been harping on this for a while now. Basically, what makes Zelensky a good wartime leader for Ukraine (i.e., his resolve, courage, charisma, etc.) is also what makes him a thorn in the side of MAGA. So they want him out.
See, MAGA wants rapprochement with Russia and the funds that are being used in Ukraine to be invested in their “America first” agenda. Presumably, that’s what they think that Trump, Witkoff, Vance, and Kushner are trying to do with this deal as a whole. IMO, it’s more cynical/ self-interested than that…
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Why does MAGA want rapproachment with Russia? Are there ideological underpinnings or is this just what the MAGA leaders want?
I think they are just foreign policy isolationists, I don’t think it’s that deep for most of them.
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