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***OFFICIAL*** San Diego (?) Chargers 2016 Offseason Thread (2 Viewers)

Woodhead out for the year with torn ACL. Given he is a free agent after the season and turns 32 in January, yesterday may have been his last game for the Chargers, maybe the last game in his career. 

This brings the list of offensive skill players lost for the year to 5: WR1 Allen, WR3 Johnson, RB1b Woodhead, RB3 Oliver, TE3 Cumberland. 

Spanos karma...

 
Meant to mention this earlier. On Williams' awesome 44 yard TD, LG Orlando Franklin was at the goal line helping to push him in. 44 yards downfield. That is a great effort, especially for a guy who really didn't show well last season as a big free agent signing. Combining that effort play with how well the OL has played in the first 2 games makes me think that the new OL coaches are better than the old ones. I'm sure Slauson's addition is also helping a lot.

 
McCoy has been the head coach of the Chargers for 53 games. 32 of those games have been decided by one score (8 points or less). In those games, McCoy's Chargers are 12-20. More disturbingly, the Chargers are 1-10 in their past 11 such games. Of course, that means they were 11-10 in their first 21 such games.

Does this mean anything? I have heard this stat cited on talk radio as evidence of poor coaching. Is there any merit to that? Or is this just randomness and/or sample size?

On the one hand, one could point out that McCoy was 19-15 in his first 2 seasons, which was solid. And one could go on to point out that the Chargers had major injuries in 2015 and already in 2016. But it's a bottom line business, right? At some point, McCoy must own the results independent of injuries, right?

 
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I figured I'd come here and read all the outrage and second-guessing after the second time in three weeks that this team gave up a lead late in the fourth quarter. Instead it's pretty darn quiet. Are we as fans simply resigned to our fate like we were in the late 90's?

 
Despyzer said:
Are we as fans simply resigned to our fate like we were in the late 90's?
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Ding Ding Ding!

Until the Spanoses are gone, this is what we get. Bargain basement mediocrity to sucktitude (when Rivers is gone).

It's a criminal misuse of Rivers.

 
Despyzer said:
I figured I'd come here and read all the outrage and second-guessing after the second time in three weeks that this team gave up a lead late in the fourth quarter. Instead it's pretty darn quiet. Are we as fans simply resigned to our fate like we were in the late 90's?
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Yeah, I would love to discuss the Chargers more in season (yes, I'm a masochist), but normal Chargers regulars like @tommyGunZ, @BoltBacker, @Gr00vus, @Maurile Tremblay, @cstu, et al. haven't been posting much.

 
I've never been a Fire McCoy guy, but seriously. I know he didn't fumble on back to back drives in the 4th quarter. 

But his stink of losing has to be accounted for.

You fire Marty for his season.....McCoy needs to go just to start over....

Trainwreck

 
Read this elsewhere but haven't confirmed it is true. The Chargers are 1-2 this season in games in which they held a lead of 13 or more points in the 4th quarter. The rest of the NFL is 25-0.

The Chargers organization is a joke. It has sunk to the level of being one of the bottom few organizations in the NFL. That applies to owner, coaching, GM... the entire organization.

Can any other franchise claim to have had at least borderline HOF caliber QB play for 13 years and counting and done so little with it? I seriously doubt it.

I don't see them winning more than 6 games, and even that is probably a stretch. Telesco, McCoy, and the entire coaching staff (including Pagano who has somehow survived past HC changes) should be fired at the end of the season. Unfortunately, the Spanos family will remain, so there is little hope that they will hire better GM and coaches going forward.

 
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The Chargers are 1-3 this season despite playing 4 teams with a collective record of 2-10 against teams other than the Chargers. The rest of their schedule has a collective record of 26-22, so it's only going to get harder.

 
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As much as I want McCoy fired, I don't know what the coach is supposed to do when the running back they traded up for can't be trusted to carry the ball at the end of games. Or when the offense gets picked off at the end of games. I guess they really should have just done the kneel down thing -that would have been the proper coaching move I suppose. They'd probably fumble the snap anyway.

 
Gr00vus said:
As much as I want McCoy fired, I don't know what the coach is supposed to do when the running back they traded up for can't be trusted to carry the ball at the end of games. Or when the offense gets picked off at the end of games. I guess they really should have just done the kneel down thing -that would have been the proper coaching move I suppose. They'd probably fumble the snap anyway.
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You can't be serious. First of all, the "offense got picked at the end of the game" because it was 4th and 22 and pressure on Rivers forced him to make a desperation throw. It was his first interception of the season, so that seems like a very strange point for you to make here.

McCoy does not inspire the team. He does not draw the best results out of his coaching staff (just check out how Reich is doing this year) or his players. He is not a good in game coach, but he really isn't a good out of game coach, either. The on field results flow from all of these things. He has had his chance and proven to be one of the few worst head coaches in the NFL. He is worse than Norv freaking Turner. He has to go.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Read this elsewhere but haven't confirmed it is true. The Chargers are 1-2 this season in games in which they held a lead of 13 or more points in the 4th quarter. The rest of the NFL is 25-0.

The Chargers organization is a joke. It has sunk to the level of being one of the bottom few organizations in the NFL. That applies to owner, coaching, GM... the entire organization.

Can any other franchise claim to have had at least borderline HOF caliber QB play for 13 years and counting and done so little with it? I seriously doubt it.

I don't see them winning more than 6 games, and even that is probably a stretch. Telesco, McCoy, and the entire coaching staff (including Pagano who has somehow survived past HC changes) should be fired at the end of the season. Unfortunately, the Spanos family will remain, so there is little hope that they will hire better GM and coaches going forward.
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That's what happens when you dump a HOF QB and coach with a 14-2 record.

 
The three losses were all improbable occurrences. Fantastically improbable in the case of the Chiefs and Saints. I don't know how to apportion the blame for those fiascoes among McCoy, his staff, the players, bad luck, and other various factors (although I tend to think that luck is an underrated factor in these kinds of situations).

Is McCoy a good head coach? How would I evaluate that as a fan? His W-L record is poor, but there's no doubt that injuries have been a significant hindrance. His in-game decisions (when to go for it on fourth down, etc.) leave something to be desired, but that's an overrated aspect of coaching. (I'm not saying that it's not important. Of course it is. But because it's by far the most visible aspect of coaching, it tends to be given more weight than it deserves compared to weekly game-planning, etc.) How is McCoy with weekly preparation? That's mostly a behind-the-scenes issue that's hard to get a good grasp on from the outside. How much of it does McCoy himself do as compared to his coordinators? The head coach is ultimately responsible for it, to be sure, but weekly preparation and game-planning don't seem to be among the team's problems.

I disagree with LaDainian Tomlinson about this necessarily being a rebuilding phase. I think the team is good enough to make a run right now if it can stay relatively healthy and avoid taking so many astoundingly improbable losses when they are set up to win. They are 1-3 in this quirky universe of ours, but they are 4-0 in most universes.

Nonetheless, my tentative opinion is that McCoy has had his chance and has failed, will likely continue to fail, and should be let go. But I don't have overwhelming confidence in that opinion. It's possible that McCoy is decently successful in the universes where the Chargers have maintained average health and have had merely average luck at the ends of fourth quarters. Moreover, who is the team supposed to hire at this point to replace him? You can't really go outside the organization in the middle of the season. And promoting from within probably won't change the culture of choking ... to the extent that that's a real thing, and not simply random noise that people are mistaking for signal.

I guess whether to give McCoy the rest of the season to try to turn things around comes down to whether the players have lost faith in him. If they'll play hard for him, I see little to be gained from making a change now rather than at season's end (assuming the Chargers don't win the Super Bowl in the meantime). If the players show any signs of giving up on the season, that pretty much forecloses the possibility of a turnaround, and the housecleaning may as well start immediately.

 
BassNBrew said:
That's what happens when you dump a HOF QB and coach with a 14-2 record.
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The QB had nothing to do with it. I expect you know this and are trolling, but Brees was hurt and the team had Rivers under an expensive contract and knew he was as good or better than Brees. Rivers has played at HOF level since Brees left (he may not make the HOF, but if not it will be because of the lousy organization that failed him, not because of Rivers himself).

 
Just Win Baby said:
The QB had nothing to do with it. I expect you know this and are trolling, but Brees was hurt and the team had Rivers under an expensive contract and knew he was as good or better than Brees. Rivers has played at HOF level since Brees left (he may not make the HOF, but if not it will be because of the lousy organization that failed him, not because of Rivers himself).
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Rivers is not as good or better than Brees.

 
BassNBrew said:
Rivers is not as good or better than Brees.
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Rivers has been quite a bit better than Brees was in San Diego, which is what is relevant to your trolling point.

Aside from that, Brees has been better than Rivers since he left San Diego, but not by much. The main differences have been (a) Sean Payton and (b) 1000 more passing attempts (~20% more per game).

Imagine how good Rivers' numbers would look had he joined Sean Payton in New Orleans 10 years ago instead of Brees. IMO they would be as good or better than Brees's numbers. YMMV.

 
It's time for Telesco and McCoy to go.  I see no reason to keep McCoy through the season.  This team isn't going anywhere.  Might as well try something new.  Telesco can go at the end of the year.  

They both should have been out after last year, but Dean Spanos is cheap.  He's really the one that needs to go.  I wish he would just fire himself.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Rivers has been quite a bit better than Brees was in San Diego, which is what is relevant to your trolling point.

Aside from that, Brees has been better than Rivers since he left San Diego, but not by much. The main differences have been (a) Sean Payton and (b) 1000 more passing attempts (~20% more per game).

Imagine how good Rivers' numbers would look had he joined Sean Payton in New Orleans 10 years ago instead of Brees. IMO they would be as good or better than Brees's numbers. YMMV.
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:goodposting:

Anyone who think Brees would have done much more than Rivers in SD is kidding themselves.

 
Gordon and benjiman fumble inside the 30 in the 4th quarter. The rivers int was a desperation throw. 

Snakebit team that doesnt have enough players to over come such collosal blunders

 
Also whats the local skinny on gates. Looks like hh might be really productive with him out. He is fat n old n slow n hurt. Why not keep the kid in??

 
Just Win Baby said:
Rivers has been quite a bit better than Brees was in San Diego, which is what is relevant to your trolling point.

Aside from that, Brees has been better than Rivers since he left San Diego, but not by much. The main differences have been (a) Sean Payton and (b) 1000 more passing attempts (~20% more per game).

Imagine how good Rivers' numbers would look had he joined Sean Payton in New Orleans 10 years ago instead of Brees. IMO they would be as good or better than Brees's numbers. YMMV.
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Some of your differences are offset by SD having better talent of offense.  Brees has done more with less IMO.

 
BassNBrew said:
Some of your differences are offset by SD having better talent of offense.  Brees has done more with less IMO.
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Rivers has had Tomlinson (for a few seasons) and Gates. Otherwise the collective talent around Rivers has been below average. Don't forget OL... Rivers' OL has been terrible for most of his career, which is an underrated factor. 

And Brees has had Payton as his HC for 10+ years, compared to Norv and McCoy. :X  IMO that more than offsets any perceived advantage Rivers has had in skill players.

 
Anything to make of Inman and Williams seeing 95% of the snap counts this week while Benjamin was in the 70ish% range? Felt like Benjamin was the safe one of the group, now no idea what to think.

 
BassNBrew said:
Some of your differences are offset by SD having better talent of offense.  Brees has done more with less IMO.
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Isn't most of this because Rivers is guilty of attending North Carolina St. or something? I think you have been beating this dead horse for about a decade now. 

Half the offense is OL and Brees may not even still be playing if he would have been taking as much abuse behind that line that Rivers has endured. Just think about the push up the middle of the line Rivers has been getting for years now. Not too sure if a 6' Brees would be able to step up into the pocket nearly as well if he were playing in those conditions. Anyone pretending that the NO OL and SD OL have been on par for the past decade are being intellectually dishonest with themselves or just plain foolish.

For that matter, I think if you did a little research you'd see Brees is a much, much better dome QB and it's not even close. Folks like to ignore this little fact year after year after year.

Of course your other criticism about losing Marty completely ignores the fact they also lost Wade Phillips as their DC(and Cam Cameron as the their OC for that matter) so the coaching staff that was responsible for the 14-2 season couldn't have been kept in tact even if they wanted to keep all of them. You should look up Wade Phillips. He's not a bad DC. Chargers defense hasn't been the same since he left.

So many legit reasons to criticize this franchise and people seem to focus on the most ridiculous ones year after year. I can still hear, "Why didn't they make Vincent Jackson the highest paid WR in the league!@#$@". TB fans are still trying to argue he isn't overpaid. You people in the south are pretty sharp.... well, except for those folks that went to NC St cos we all know THOSE southerners are just pyuuuuuuuure ignorant! Hyuck, hyuck, hyuck.

 
Wow....Verrett IR too

Seriously....this is really bad....how many starters in IR....Allen, Woodhead, Teo, Johnson, Verrett. 

Verrett out gonna really really hurt.....start all your QBs/WRs versus the Chargers....they are not going to stop any offenses....

 
DanFouts said:
Wow....Verrett IR too

Seriously....this is really bad....how many starters in IR....Allen, Woodhead, Teo, Johnson, Verrett. 

Verrett out gonna really really hurt.....start all your QBs/WRs versus the Chargers....they are not going to stop any offenses....
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The wheels just fell off, imo. I thought this team could be the surprise of the league. Those close losses coupled with these injuries. Fork em. Next step is measure C failing. Could be looking at 4-12 and no stadium plan. 

 
The Chargers are the Marino-Era Dolphins. They had a very good offense but simply had awful luck in finding pass rush.  Jim Kelly had Bruce Smith so the Bills went to 4 super bowls.  If Bruce Smith played for the Dolphins instead, the Dolphins probably wind up in some Super Bowls. Ironically, as soon as Marino retires, they finally find pass rush with Jason Taylor - but they no longer had the QB.  

The Patriots suffered from the same thing for years after 2004.  Their pass rush dropped off.  They failed to find an answer for a long time.  Adalius Thomas, Albert Haynesworth, etc., all came in and flopped.  It wasn't until they got Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones that they had serious pass rush and won another super bowl.  Then they sign Jabaal Sheard and decided Jones is expendable.  

It happened to the Patriots.  Its happening to the Chargers.  Nothing you can do.  

Aaron Rodgers had Clay Matthews and BJ Raji.  Cam Newton had Keuchly.  Manning had Von Miller.  The other Manning had JPP.  

The Chargers have drafted Bosa, Attaochu, Perryman, Verrett, Ingram, Luiget, T'eo, English and even signed Freeney but never found that dominant pass rush.

If you want to talk about that 14-2 team, Merriman had 17 sacks and Phillips had another 10.  Pair that with Rivers and you go 14-2.

If you look back, Merriman's injury altered the course of the franchise.  He was on track to be that dominant pass rush for Rivers' prime years, but again, bad luck.

 
Raiders are in the same stage the Chargers are now in.  They got the QB in Carr, now they are drafting a lot of guys on the defensive front to get pass rush.  Edwards, Ward, Calhoun, etc.....  Throw bulk picks at the DL / LB spots and try to hit the jackpot.

 
Stay tuned next week to see how the Chargers blow it to the Broncos. Since they go unique way each time, I gotta go with a blocked punt returned for TD with under 2 min left next week. 

 
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Why Mike McCoy Should’ve Gone for the 4th and 1


 


I really don’t want to get into the whole momentum/intangibles/confidence deal, but it’s worth noting LT King Dunlap was visibly frustrated with McCoy’s decision to kick the FG. And for a coach allegedly making his last stand, it speaks volumes McCoy played for a tenuous tie instead of playing for a win which could’ve changed the season, or even saved his job.

It’s also worth it to note an old axiom that you should think about going for the outcome your opponent fears most. Were the Raiders happy that McCoy settled for 3?

"I'm glad they did (decide to kick), I was a little bit [relieved]. I talked to some of their players after the game. They wanted to go for it."

-Raiders LT Donald Penn
Click to expand...


In Summary

Any of the 3 scenarios above give the Chargers a better chance of actually winning the game than the scenario McCoy settled for on Sunday. His decision to make the obvious and easy call for an FG attempt did very little to actually improve his team’s chances of winning.

What the decision did was temporarily improve the Chargers’ odds of not losing the game, by shifting the burden away from his borderline Hall-of-Fame QB and productive offense, and instead shifting the burden onto a beaten up and undermanned defense which had gamely slowed, but struggled to stop the Raiders all game long.

McCoy had a last chance to change the fortunes of his team, and the Chargers’ 2016 season. That he instead chose the safe & well traveled road might be the best for everyone involved.
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I underlined the second sentence, which nicely summarizes it. I hope McCoy is gone after Thursday's game as has been rumored.

 
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Just Win Baby said:
Why Mike McCoy Should’ve Gone for the 4th and 1


 




I underlined the second sentence, which nicely summarizes it. I hope McCoy is gone after Thursday's game as has been rumored.
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Couldn't agree more. The team is going off track in every direction. Ownership needs to change or SD won't approve a new stadium. Coach needs to go as he doesn't appear to have "it". GM has made some good moves and draft picks, but the injuries are a concern. Could be that SD injury rate is in line with the rest of the league, but over the years it has seemed like SD players get hurt more often and more severely than other teams. Not sure how often, if, or when the strength and conditioning position has changed, but something needs to be done here.

 
With the recent fumbles and possible coaching change and general unrest, what do you guys think of Gordon's job security?  Is it time to handcuff?

 
With Forsett in Detroit, there isn't a whole lot of free agent RBs that will be useful. Giving Farrow a shot would be nice, since we haven't seen what he can do in its entirety, but I do think it's time to look at spreading the carries around. 

 
1-4, especially this kind of 1-4 is painful, but Bosa looks like an absolute beast and the offense is scoring in bunches. Better days ahead for the Chargers IMO, possibly as soon as this week if they line up Bosa against the Broncos RT.

 
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