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*** Official *** Star Wars Episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker (4 Viewers)

Smack Tripper said:
Not to re-litigate TLJ, but nothing the avengers did fundamentally pivoted against their established mythos like TLJ did,  as I recall. 
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TLJ wasn’t my favorite film, definitely not as good as 7 and 9, so I won’t spend much time defending it.

BUT...how did it “pivot against established mythos?”

 
Insein said:
Isaac and Boyega have stated they have no interest in doing anymore Star Wars shows or movies any time soon.

Oscar Isaac cashing in his chips

Boyega: You ain't gonna Disney + Me
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Wel if you read the article you see they’d possibly be down for a movie in the future.  Any movie with those three would I’m sure be 10+ years away.

But they are young when 9 ends. Of course the world they live in won’t stay perfect, more adventures are there to be had.  

 
So there is an ancient sith dagger written in an ancient language that tells of the secret location of one of two beacon things. It even has one of those “line up the rocks” things from Goonies in order to get to the final specific location. But instead of the thing being buried in some ancient sith temple cave, the ancient dagger takes you to a room in a crashed death star that has only been there 30 years .....

That was dumb. I would have totally been ok with the death star having landed on the temple because “the force” but the dagger made no sense. 

 
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shader said:
Wel if you read the article you see they’d possibly be down for a movie in the future.  Any movie with those three would I’m sure be 10+ years away.

But they are young when 9 ends. Of course the world they live in won’t stay perfect, more adventures are there to be had.  
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Yea I think 10 years out we’ll definitely see at least one more movie with this group. Not everything has to be a trilogy though, just another chapter. 

 
I do think I liked it the more I think of it. Just disappointed in how the whole thing played out and I blame Rian “who spells their name like that” Johnson. 
 

 
shader said:
This has long been rumored. Lucas literally retconned Anakin into being Vader in ESB. 
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Lucas had said it was Plagueis that was the father. Disney changed it to Palpatine. 

So connect the Dots. 

Palpatine is Rey's grandfather.

Palpatine is Kylo's great grandfather.

JJ wanted to make sure he checked all the Star Wars boxes. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
Doesn't Rian Johnson have a trilogy? 

Weren't they trying to give the GOT chumps a trilogy? 

:confused:
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GOT trilogy is off. Apparently as listed earlier that trilogy statement might not be 100% accurate.

At this point it’s a huge guess what the future holds. Disney is a brilliant company.  They have responded well to the disastrous 6 months around TLJ/Solo.

Mandolorian and Episode 9 appear to be home runs.  Now they are slow playing it a bit.  
 

The next movie that’s set in a different timeline is really important. To be fair it’s interesting, as both the MCU and Star Wars have reached the end of one era and must begin a new one. 
 

Next announcement I guess is what the 2022 movie is going to be.

 
shader said:
TLJ wasn’t my favorite film, definitely not as good as 7 and 9, so I won’t spend much time defending it.

BUT...how did it “pivot against established mythos?”
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Mainly the entire handling of Luke, making him more whiner than master  and the fact that any jabroni can have the force or master it.

 
Smack Tripper said:
Mainly the entire handling of Luke, making him more whiner than master  and the fact that any jabroni can have the force or master it.
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Many were capable of being force sensitive before. That was never an issue. But they had to be trained to utilize it. A lot of them from when they were infants in order to be able to harness the ability. 

 
Insein said:
Lucas had said it was Plagueis that was the father. Disney changed it to Palpatine. 

So connect the Dots. 

Palpatine is Rey's grandfather.

Palpatine is Kylo's great grandfather.

JJ wanted to make sure he checked all the Star Wars boxes. 
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He “made” Anakin through manipulation of midiclorians. Not sex with Shmi Skywalker like a Zeus taking the form of another. What we have no clue about is Palpatine’s son who fathered Rey. Seems dumb. My clone idea stolen from the books was way better. I bet they just didn’t want to pay the author of those books ...

 
Insein said:
Many were capable of being force sensitive before. That was never an issue. But they had to be trained to utilize it. A lot of them from when they were infants in order to be able to harness the ability. 
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plus let’s be honest every new movie changes the “mythos” in some way.  The whole mitichlorians debacle from PM was a great example of Lucas totally changing what the force fundamentally was.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Rian’s is cancelled too. 
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They were on a high after Force Awakens and Rogue One.  The fan backlash at TLJ and their terrible marketing of Solo woke them up.  They realized they weren’t going to have success just throwing Star Wars on the label.  It’s going to take actual good movies.

 
shader said:
plus let’s be honest every new movie changes the “mythos” in some way.  The whole mitichlorians debacle from PM was a great example of Lucas totally changing what the force fundamentally was.
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In fairness, it’s his sandbox and while I agree the mitocholian stuff was cheese, there wasn’t much of a place for it in the original trilogy but the prequels are theoretically origin tales 

 
Smack Tripper said:
In fairness, it’s his sandbox and while I agree the mitocholian stuff was cheese, there wasn’t much of a place for it in the original trilogy but the prequels are theoretically origin tales 
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Well yeah of course. I was fine with it. I’m fine with things changing. There are many fans that seem stuck in the original three movies and have probably complained about every movie that has come out since 1983.  
 

Of course those fans would have absolutely crucified Lucas for ESB if the internet was around back then and they were crusty adults.  “WHAT VADER IS LUKES FATHER??!! GREEDY MONEY GRAB BY LUCA$”

 
shader said:
plus let’s be honest every new movie changes the “mythos” in some way.  The whole mitichlorians debacle from PM was a great example of Lucas totally changing what the force fundamentally was.
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That was always Lucas' vision. Right or wrong, he is the creator of Star Wars. 

 
Insein said:
That was always Lucas' vision. Right or wrong, he is the creator of Star Wars. 
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WAS.  I could go on and on about Lucas decisions many didn’t agree with.  He was universally panned for the prequels.

Now the same unhappy  people are mad at Disney for “retconning” Lucas story, as if they were going to sit back and never change anything for their new franchise.

 
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Insein said:
He will always be the creator of Star Wars.
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I edited my post.  Of course he’s the original creator.  But his flaws were numerous and he sold off his rights to be the creator of the story.

Imo Disney has done a fantastic job and the future is 10 times brighter than it was under Lucas.

 
shader said:
I edited my post.  Of course he’s the original creator.  But his flaws were numerous and he sold off his rights to be the creator of the story.

Imo Disney has done a fantastic job and the future is 10 times brighter than it was under Lucas.
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Opinions vary greatly. 

I will say if Favreau and Feige are in charge going forward, there is hope.

 
Rise of Skywalker fan score after opening 3 days holding at 86%.  I’d call that a resounding success.  We tend to enjoy the movies more as time goes on so I’m proud of JJ for closing out the series strong.

He had an impossible task after 8.  Disney should not escape major blame for allowing separate writers to write the freaking sequel trilogy.

But I think they learned their lessons.  AND incredible performances from the new cast made this trilogy a success.  Very happy with current state of the franchise. 

 
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Insein said:
Opinions vary greatly. 

I will say if Favreau and Feige are in charge going forward, there is hope.
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True and everyone has that right.  But the vast majority of people love them.The unhappy are always more vocal on the internet.  But I know very few people irl who hate the sequels.

 
Insein said:
This is the movie thread. That's what it's for.
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shader said:
Should that be done?  I mean if I haven’t seen the movie, there’s zero chance I’m going into a thread on...the movie
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:shrug:

People seemed to care about these things in the past.   I guess it's shifted to you can't come into the thread until you've seen the movie now.  

Hey - at least I got you guys to agree on something though! ;)

 
KarmaPolice said:
:shrug:

People seemed to care about these things in the past.   I guess it's shifted to you can't come into the thread until you've seen the movie now.  

Hey - at least I got you guys to agree on something though! ;)
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I can’t ever recall not being able to discuss a movie in a movie thread.  Would be very weird.

 
shader said:
Well yeah of course. I was fine with it. I’m fine with things changing. There are many fans that seem stuck in the original three movies and have probably complained about every movie that has come out since 1983.  
 

Of course those fans would have absolutely crucified Lucas for ESB if the internet was around back then and they were crusty adults.  “WHAT VADER IS LUKES FATHER??!! GREEDY MONEY GRAB BY LUCA$”
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I think it’s all in the handling and presentation.  For instance, this “force healing” stuff was new but at least they established it and gave it some ground rules and paid it off.  
 

I haven’t seen knives out but it still boggles my mind they gave the keys to the corvette to Johnson who is a very average filmmaker in my mind.  TLJ does have some good aesthetics  and some creative visuals but the pacing, story and performances were all fairly dreadful with him so his attempts to so radically alter what the nine prior movies established didn’t land with me and many others it seems

 
Insein said:
Opinions vary greatly. 

I will say if Favreau and Feige are in charge going forward, there is hope.
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I am not convinced about this one.  I love me some Iron Man and Elf, but it feels to me like he is just becoming that Disney "yes man" that they seem to like to hire.  I don't think he is anything great, and won't really push the envelope.   He is exactly the middle of the road person that they seem to want to have on their projects.  Anybody who has seemed to want to put any new spin on an idea has been shown the door in the past.    Time will tell here.  

 
shader said:
I can’t ever recall not being able to discuss a movie in a movie thread.  Would be very weird.
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Discussing the movie and if you like it <> dropping spoilers in the past.   Usually people waited a week or so, and people could come in get a pulse of how people liked the movie, and the thread title would change to reflect that spoilers were active in the thread.  

Just saying I am a little surprised is all.

 
Capella said:
That would be a shame. He’s terrific. Knives out was a great movie. 
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It was great. Perhaps he would do better with his own set of movies.  To me you can see that he likes to draw the viewer one way, then fake them out the other.  In the end, I don’t blame him all that much.  TLJ was a fun movie and some of the cinematography and dialogue was great.

I blame Disney for reasons already mentioned and hope they’ve learned their lessons.  

 
Capella said:
That would be a shame. He’s terrific. Knives out was a great movie. 
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shader said:
It was great. Perhaps he would do better with his own set of movies.  To me you can see that he likes to draw the viewer one way, then fake them out the other.  In the end, I don’t blame him all that much.  TLJ was a fun movie and some of the cinematography and dialogue was great.

I blame Disney for reasons already mentioned and hope they’ve learned their lessons.  
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Correct with the bolded, which is why it seems like some directors stick around and some get booted from Disney projects.  I am not sure how much they want the bolded for their Star Wars movies.  

 
shader said:
TLJ wasn’t my favorite film, definitely not as good as 7 and 9, so I won’t spend much time defending it.

BUT...how did it “pivot against established mythos?”
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I think it's a reasonable statement, it intentionally flipped the script of key moments of Empire (Rey is nobody, not the bloodline of another major character) and Return of the Jedi (Ben/Kylo turns on Snoke but not in a turn back to the light). It also tries to establish the rebellion/resistance as being about people, not just a handful of heroes. 

All of that stuff really makes it a much better movie IMO. I re-watched it after seeing Rise of Skywalker and I think TLJ is better in every respect, but to each their own. 

 
Buckna said:
They did, but the Empire also only had one prototype of them In the novels, not an entire massive fleet of them built in secret, crewed by? Who knows where Palpatine got all the materials and crew from with nobody noticing
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There's apparently a fair chunk of the galaxy that's poorly mapped, and the Sith have a ton of experience working in the shadows behind the scenes. The crew may have simply been cobbled together from the conscriptions that were apparently happening everywhere, based on at least one First Order higher up still serving the Emperor. Galaxies are big places, there can be a lot of places to hide within them.

 
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