Bogart
Footballguy
Just don't share with Josh. And if you do, hide the cameras and Reddi Whip.
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***Official Texas Rangers 2012 Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bogart
- Start date
RnR
Footballguy
Didn't Lewis sign with Arizona?
Eephus
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
...but not Jensen Lewis
Bogart
Footballguy
Berserker
Footballguy
Anybody else excited about the Darvish chances? I mean, the Rangers aren't going into this blindly. They've scouted him a lot. I'm excited and think they are going to go after him aggressively.
BTW, not a fan of this blind bidding process though. Why can't they have open bidding?
BTW, not a fan of this blind bidding process though. Why can't they have open bidding?
Captain Hook
Footballguy
Why? So the Yankees or Red Sox can win every posting battle without any risk of overpayment?The system is likely not going to change because it has to accomodate both MLB and the Japanese LeagueAnd while Darvish has tremendous numbers in Japan and is an excellent pitcher, things here would be MUCH different for him - pitching more often on less rest and a lot more travel than he is used to. Along with facing much better hitters here I think people should temper their expectations.
Interesting, but he left out some numbers. When comparing Darvish's last 2 seasons against Colby's 2 seasons in Japan.
Colby had 3 CG each season, Darvish had 10 CG's each of last 2 years.
Colby gave up 12 & 13 HR's his 2 years there, Darvish has given up 5 HR's each of last 2 years.
Colby's ERA was 2.68 & 2.96 vs. 1.78 & 1.44 for Darvish.
Whip 1.00 & .99 for Colby 1.01 & 0.83 for Darvish.
Colby pitched well in Japan, that's why he is with the Rangers now. He is by no means an Ace, but he is a very good MLB pitcher. Darvish's numbers are better than what Colby's were in Japan. What do these guys want 25 CG and 0.00 ERA? Darvish is good and I really hope he is a Rnger next month.
RnR
Footballguy
I'm sure they would go that direction if they were able to get yrs/$$ they are comfortable with on him. The problem is, there are several teams that want Fielder, and a few of them are probably desperate enough to go 8-10 years at 20+ mil a season. At that contract length and price point, I'm not sure the Rangers want to be players.
I would love Fielder. Sandwich him somewhere between Josh, Beltre, Napoli and Cruz... He would at least get to see some decent pitches. And in the BPIA, during the summer he could be a 45-55 hr guy the next few years. I'd rather have Votto, but I doubt he will be traded.'Bogart said:
Darvish gonna be a Ranger.
Bogart
Footballguy
Great call on this ctdub.I never ever thought that Texas would be in the mix for Darvish, much less win the bid. And everything that was coming out of Texas pointed towards them not going after him. I should know better by now. And now, I'm completely giddy about it.
I love the risk. Of course it's not my money, but I think it shows what this team is willing to do to put a winner on the field. It's a big investment, but it still feels like the smart move. I love the fact that you are adding a piece without spending any of your assets in the minor leagues. You still have a Profar, Perez, Olt to bring up or make another improvement to your team.
Does it say more about Darvish or more about Wilson that you wouldn't go that kind of money for Wilson, which would have surely had him stay? You are getting 6 years younger (Dear baby Jesus, this rotation is young and could be good for a long time) but you are also getting unproven. You are probably getting less baggage, which says quite a lot because you know Darvish starts are going to be a spectacle.
I will be in the park for his first home start, I know that for sure.
I'm really happy about this. Hopefully this ends all the Gio and Garza trade talks. They have saved their prsopects to pull a major trade off if the right pitcher comes available. If not I expect them to go hard after Hamels and Cain in the next off season. Hamels being a ground ball lefty and would be a good fit at the BPIA. Cain being from the south and might be more open to lving in Texas than most FA pitchers. It's just so hard to get a good FA to sign here they are going to have to over pay to get either one.
Here are some interesting options on Fan Graphs. I think the Rangers end up dealing Ogando, Feldman or Harrison (although I really like Ogando and Harry and would hat eot see either leave) along with some prospects to pull in a big fish. I just don't see them trading Colby. I don't think he has the value the other guys do and I think they need his veteran leadership in the clubhouse.
Rangers Nab Darvish, Stay Forever Young
by Paul Swydan - December 20, 2011
The Rangers have wasted little time waxing nostalgic on the C.J. Wilson era, as they have topped the bidding for Yu Darvish with a reported record $51.7 million bid that could keep their rotation forever young.
We have killed a lot of fake internet trees on Mr. Darvish already this offseason. The half-Iranian, half-Japanese righty should be better than Daisuke Matsuzaka, and a good comp for him is Jordan Zimmermann. To be certain, there is room for a pitcher like this on the Rangers. If they so desire, Darvish could even start on Opening Day, though the depth in the rotation gives them the luxury of starting him anywhere from one through five. The question is, how do they make him fit?
The Rangers now boast an embarrassment of riches on their pitching staff. They already had five starters, plus Scott Feldman, as well as two prospects (Martin Perez and Neil Ramirez) who could be ready for primetime with good first halves. With Darvish, they now have a minimum of six Major League starters, which could lead to a few different scenarios:
– A starter is traded. This seems the most likely option on the board. Of the group, Colby Lewis would be the pitcher that would be most likely to be on the block. None of the other members in the Rangers’ quintet — Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison, Derek Holland and Alexi Ogando — are even arbitration eligible yet. Lewis is in the last year of his deal, and is priced at the modest sum of $3.25 million. That price tag, along with his durability — he is just one of 33 pitchers to accumulate at least 400 innings over the past two seasons — as well as the dearth of good starting pitching options left on the market would make him a desirable commodity. If they deal him, the oldest member of the Rangers rotation next year will be Ogando at 28, though since he has not pitched his whole life, his arm is just as fresh as the younger guns.
– Alexi Ogando moves back to the bullpen. Ogando was doing a great job in a relief role last postseason until the World Series started, and then he promptly erased all his positive work by posting negative WPA’s in four of his six Fall Classic appearances. Still, while Ogando succeeded as a starter this season, you could make the case for him moving back to a relief role, particularly because of his mainly two-pitch mix. Ogando would give the ‘pen a veritable hydra of power right-handed arms, lessening the need to rely on Joe Nathan.
– Neftali Feliz never becomes a starter. Of course, just as easily as it could be Ogando moving back to the ‘pen, it could be Feliz simply staying there. The Rangers might not be able to get a full 200 innings out of Feliz this year in a starting capacity, and with the Angels now pushing all in, the Rangers might not want to worry about Feliz wearing down in the second half.
– The Rangers keep them all. The Rangers don’t necessarily have to do anything. If they wanted to get creative, they could carry one less pitcher, making both Feldman and Lewis swingmen/long men that can soak up innings in front of Nathan, Mike Adams, Yoshinori Tateyama and Koji Uehara. In this way, they would be protected against Feliz wearing down in the second half but still have enough innings to squeeze value out of Lewis. Here again we come back to the point of having good depth. While it would make sense to trade Lewis if he can fetch a good return, it would also make sense to keep him in the bullpen. Last year, the Rangers needed 447 innings from their bullpen. Assuming the front four throw somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 innings a piece, there would be somewhere north of 200 innings of ball left to pitch. Now, depending on how Ron Washington manages the bullpen, Lewis and Feldman might not be able to soak up all of those innings, but they would get the majority of them. In addition, it keeps a solid backup plan in place in case Feliz needs his innings managed. It even gives them the option of running out a six-man rotation. After all, Darvish pitched frequently on five days rest instead of four in Japan.
If the Rangers do decide to trade Lewis, it essentially means that Darvish and Feliz will have replaced Wilson and Lewis. Does the Darvish/Feliz side of that equation have more potential? Absolutely. Darvish will be 25 this season, and Feliz will be just 24, which is a veritable fountain of youth compared to Wilson (31) and Lewis (32). But it also comes with a lot more risk. It’s not fair to just hand waive that and say that it should come out in the wash, because we haven’t seen either Darvish or Feliz throw a full season of Major League ball yet. That in and of itself is the best reason to keep Lewis in the fold.
Assuming the Rangers and Darvish agree on a deal, this night will go down as a landmark night for the franchise. While it’s a move that should bolster the Rangers rotation — a rotation that could see the same five guys locked in for the next three-four years — this is likely not the last move the Rangers will make this offseason. But if it all works out, the Rangers will have pulled off the rarest of feats — maintaining or improving the quality of their rotation while simultaneously getting younger. They will pay a steep price for the chance, and the moves are fraught with risk, but the Rangers have done their due diligence and have been more right than wrong the past few years, so it will be fascinating to see how this plays out.
Rangers Nab Darvish, Stay Forever Young
by Paul Swydan - December 20, 2011
The Rangers have wasted little time waxing nostalgic on the C.J. Wilson era, as they have topped the bidding for Yu Darvish with a reported record $51.7 million bid that could keep their rotation forever young.
We have killed a lot of fake internet trees on Mr. Darvish already this offseason. The half-Iranian, half-Japanese righty should be better than Daisuke Matsuzaka, and a good comp for him is Jordan Zimmermann. To be certain, there is room for a pitcher like this on the Rangers. If they so desire, Darvish could even start on Opening Day, though the depth in the rotation gives them the luxury of starting him anywhere from one through five. The question is, how do they make him fit?
The Rangers now boast an embarrassment of riches on their pitching staff. They already had five starters, plus Scott Feldman, as well as two prospects (Martin Perez and Neil Ramirez) who could be ready for primetime with good first halves. With Darvish, they now have a minimum of six Major League starters, which could lead to a few different scenarios:
– A starter is traded. This seems the most likely option on the board. Of the group, Colby Lewis would be the pitcher that would be most likely to be on the block. None of the other members in the Rangers’ quintet — Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison, Derek Holland and Alexi Ogando — are even arbitration eligible yet. Lewis is in the last year of his deal, and is priced at the modest sum of $3.25 million. That price tag, along with his durability — he is just one of 33 pitchers to accumulate at least 400 innings over the past two seasons — as well as the dearth of good starting pitching options left on the market would make him a desirable commodity. If they deal him, the oldest member of the Rangers rotation next year will be Ogando at 28, though since he has not pitched his whole life, his arm is just as fresh as the younger guns.
– Alexi Ogando moves back to the bullpen. Ogando was doing a great job in a relief role last postseason until the World Series started, and then he promptly erased all his positive work by posting negative WPA’s in four of his six Fall Classic appearances. Still, while Ogando succeeded as a starter this season, you could make the case for him moving back to a relief role, particularly because of his mainly two-pitch mix. Ogando would give the ‘pen a veritable hydra of power right-handed arms, lessening the need to rely on Joe Nathan.
– Neftali Feliz never becomes a starter. Of course, just as easily as it could be Ogando moving back to the ‘pen, it could be Feliz simply staying there. The Rangers might not be able to get a full 200 innings out of Feliz this year in a starting capacity, and with the Angels now pushing all in, the Rangers might not want to worry about Feliz wearing down in the second half.
– The Rangers keep them all. The Rangers don’t necessarily have to do anything. If they wanted to get creative, they could carry one less pitcher, making both Feldman and Lewis swingmen/long men that can soak up innings in front of Nathan, Mike Adams, Yoshinori Tateyama and Koji Uehara. In this way, they would be protected against Feliz wearing down in the second half but still have enough innings to squeeze value out of Lewis. Here again we come back to the point of having good depth. While it would make sense to trade Lewis if he can fetch a good return, it would also make sense to keep him in the bullpen. Last year, the Rangers needed 447 innings from their bullpen. Assuming the front four throw somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 innings a piece, there would be somewhere north of 200 innings of ball left to pitch. Now, depending on how Ron Washington manages the bullpen, Lewis and Feldman might not be able to soak up all of those innings, but they would get the majority of them. In addition, it keeps a solid backup plan in place in case Feliz needs his innings managed. It even gives them the option of running out a six-man rotation. After all, Darvish pitched frequently on five days rest instead of four in Japan.
If the Rangers do decide to trade Lewis, it essentially means that Darvish and Feliz will have replaced Wilson and Lewis. Does the Darvish/Feliz side of that equation have more potential? Absolutely. Darvish will be 25 this season, and Feliz will be just 24, which is a veritable fountain of youth compared to Wilson (31) and Lewis (32). But it also comes with a lot more risk. It’s not fair to just hand waive that and say that it should come out in the wash, because we haven’t seen either Darvish or Feliz throw a full season of Major League ball yet. That in and of itself is the best reason to keep Lewis in the fold.
Assuming the Rangers and Darvish agree on a deal, this night will go down as a landmark night for the franchise. While it’s a move that should bolster the Rangers rotation — a rotation that could see the same five guys locked in for the next three-four years — this is likely not the last move the Rangers will make this offseason. But if it all works out, the Rangers will have pulled off the rarest of feats — maintaining or improving the quality of their rotation while simultaneously getting younger. They will pay a steep price for the chance, and the moves are fraught with risk, but the Rangers have done their due diligence and have been more right than wrong the past few years, so it will be fascinating to see how this plays out.
Bogart
Footballguy
So you basically have 7 guys for five spots. This is a good problem to have. I don't think you can say who goes where until the end of Spring Training.
I think Lewis stays put. I think he along with the bullpen guys will be a great bridge to helping Darvish adapt to life over here.
I think Lewis stays put. I think he along with the bullpen guys will be a great bridge to helping Darvish adapt to life over here.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
This is the way I'm leaning right now.
coolnerd
Footballguy
I am not as excited about this as I should be from an on the field perspective, but the idea that the Rangers are going to be an aggressive organization I could not be happier. I don't think the Rangers will go out of the way to trade any of the seven. In a perfect world, I think that this is what I like to see.1) Dutch Oven2) Yu Darvish3) Lewis4) Harrison5) HappyCloser- NathanDual Set-up- Adams and UgandoLong-man- FeldmanNot sure why the author of that article a couple post down wants to move Lewis from anywhere, but the middle of the Texas rotation. While flawed with his fly balls, he is the most stable, veteranlike presence in rotation of great-upside arms. That boring solid guy is needed, imo.
Bogart
Footballguy
That would be really interesting. Let's Darvish keep his same rest, keeps Feliz's innings down, spreads out the overall wear and tear on the entire staff. You lose a spot in the bullpen, but with what they have, and adding that seventh starter as the mop-up guy, it could work.Just wonder if the starters would be against it, due to contract incentives (innings pitched, games started, etc).
money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
Ogando lost steam mid way through the year... I think he's much more effective in the pen. Feliz has better stuff overall but I know Ive heard he prefers to be in the closer role. Guess we'll see what happens.
I get that about Ogando, but the same thing could happen to Feliz after having a closer work load the last 3 years. Hopefully ogando comes in better shape and mentally ready for 30+ starts. I think they both have work to do developing 2nd and 3rd pitches.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
Let's get to serious questions....like who gets the Sushi concession at Arlington?
And what they come up with for the Yu Roll?
And what they come up with for the Yu Roll?
culdeus
Footballguy
With the addition of Endy Chavez today...10 Former Rangers since 2010 and their Coach now call themselves Orioles...
Player with last year of Ranger Affiliation:
Endy Chavez - 2011
Chris Davis - 2011
Hunter - 2011
Teagarden - 2011
O'Day - 2011
Zach Phillips - 2011
Pedro Strop - 2011
Clay Rapada - 2010
Player with last year of Ranger Affiliation:
Endy Chavez - 2011
Chris Davis - 2011
Hunter - 2011
Teagarden - 2011
O'Day - 2011
Zach Phillips - 2011
Pedro Strop - 2011
Clay Rapada - 2010
coolnerd
Footballguy
Not long as Michael Young is around.
coolnerd
Footballguy
On Young, he played that much in the field because of injury mostly at 3rd base and arguably at 1st once it was known that Moreland was hurt. Overall, World Series misplay and injury history included, Cruz (imo) is still better at left fielder than Young anywhere in the infield, and Moreland in the outfield. Murphy is better in the field overall, I think, but not as impactful in his overall play. Lot's of extra moving around for what does not really seem like an any additional upside.Anyway, I think Cruz is the long-term odd man out when the Rangers are handing out big long-term contracts.
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RnR
Footballguy
I feel like the "additional upside" is actually keeping Cruz's bat in the line-up. He's never played more than 128 games. Assuring yourself a healthy, happy 150 games out of Nelson Cruz might be more of a benefit than you think. He's immensely talented. If you can keep him from nagging injuries, an MVP-type season is not out of the question.
I'm sure you're probably right on the long-term view of Cruz for the Rangers. He does appear to be the odd man out.
coolnerd
Footballguy
I am watching playoff football, so I not going to try to do the numbers exactly, but moving Cruz would mean 100 game estimate of Young butchering first. Cruz played 125 last year do so another 8 HRs ad 18 RBis for what an additional 60 games of nail biting 1st base play assuming Cruz plays about 150.
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RnR
Footballguy
I assume you know best, I don't get to watch Young and Cruz in the field on a daily basis. Neither seem particularly gifted in the small sample size I take in per season. Also, it seems to me that settling Mike Young at one position would likely produce a more consistent product defensively than having him play the role of utility infielder/DH. That's not a number cruncher type of assumption on my part, more of a "feel of the game" assumption.Carry on, nothing more to see here.I am watching playoff football, so I not going to try to do the numbers exactly, but moving Cruz would mean 100 game estimate of Young butchering first. Cruz played 125 last year do so another 8 HRs ad 18 RBis for what an additional 60 games of nail biting 1st base play assuming Cruz plays about 150.
coolnerd
Footballguy
Don't do that. I am better and more detailed football fan than baseball. I don't think your idea is unwarranted versus disagreeing. the Rangers have at least 10 (probably 12) guys who could form a well above average offense and a decent enough defense.I assume you know best, I don't get to watch Young and Cruz in the field on a daily basis. Neither seem particularly gifted in the small sample size I take in per season. Also, it seems to me that settling Mike Young at one position would likely produce a more consistent product defensively than having him play the role of utility infielder/DH. That's not a number cruncher type of assumption on my part, more of a "feel of the game" assumption.Carry on, nothing more to see here.I am watching playoff football, so I not going to try to do the numbers exactly, but moving Cruz would mean 100 game estimate of Young butchering first. Cruz played 125 last year do so another 8 HRs ad 18 RBis for what an additional 60 games of nail biting 1st base play assuming Cruz plays about 150.
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
Just read on SI.com that there is a "99% chance" Fielder won't sing with the Nats. The longer this drags out, the more I think he's gonna end up here. If he was going to get anywhere near Pujols $, it would have happened by now. If his price drops, I can see it getting to the point the Rangers write that check and worry about the long-term Josh deal when it comes up. It's bizarre that we're only 2 months away from spring training and a 27 year old .282/32/106 player is still on the open market. I understand his weight might scare teams off a little, but in 6 full time seasons, his lowest PAs was 648.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
The likelihood is that Boras/Fielder are perfectly content to wait until the Rangers either sign Darvish or don't - IF they don't sign him (even though I expect them to) then Boras is in a perfect position to get what he wants for Fielder and really the Rangers will just have "unspent" $51.7 million and more inclined towards signing Fielder
culdeus
Footballguy
This is the only way this goes down. Yu is looking for 5/80. That's a ton.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
Actually the sticking point is the years - Rangers want to sign him for six.....Darvish wants five so he can get another PHAT contract after this one
