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Melky has a 13.2 VORP this year, is 22 years old, and makes $430k. Gagne has a 14.1 VORP this year, is 31 years old, has a history of injury, has a contract up at season's end, and makes $6MM.Isn't so ridiculous if you think about it. Did I want the Yankees to get Gagne? Yes. Would I have been mad if they gave up Melky? Not really. But it's not really idiotic to say it's a good thing they didn't pull the trigger on that.
What's the bigger need for the Yankees?Melky has a 13.2 VORP this year, is 22 years old, and makes $430k. Gagne has a 14.1 VORP this year, is 31 years old, has a history of injury, has a contract up at season's end, and makes $6MM.Isn't so ridiculous if you think about it. Did I want the Yankees to get Gagne? Yes. Would I have been mad if they gave up Melky? Not really. But it's not really idiotic to say it's a good thing they didn't pull the trigger on that.
Pretty sure its only one guy.
Yes. It's completely unneccesary. I went out for a walk the other day at noon. It was not night time. I went to the store and bought something. It cost me money. I took public transportation downtown. Said transportation is paid for by the government. Living in California is nice because you're near the ocean. That ocean is the Pacific Ocean.EDIT to add: I saw a 17 year old playing baseball. He probably will not end up being the next Barry Bonds.You're saying it's stupid to say that "Comparing this 17 year old to arguably the best hitter of all time is premature."
I don't think any one player can but I still don't want you guys to get squat.
He is hitting over .320, with a .400 OBP and a .830 OPS since MayYes, he's 23. No, he's never going to develop a lot of power. Since he doesn't have a lot of speed either, that makes him a pretty ineffective offensive player, considering the position he has to play.Do you realize how young Melky is? You dont think he can improve?Very little power, average on-base skills, very good defense. If the Yanks were serious about going for the WC, trading him for Gagne would've been a complete no-brainer. You're blowing Melky up just because Damon has been so bad. Melky is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a bad team.Not for a 2 month rental of Gagne. Cabrera has been tearing the cover off the ball, is a better hitter than Damon right now, and is putting up close to Gold Glove level defense. He has been a God send.
Considering Damon and his atrocious defense wouldve had to go back to CF thus hurting ALL the pitchers, Id say Cabrera was the bigger need. Now if you wanna tell me they couldve gotten a defensive CFer to replace Cabrera, then I wouldve pulled the trigger.What's the bigger need for the Yankees?Melky has a 13.2 VORP this year, is 22 years old, and makes $430k. Gagne has a 14.1 VORP this year, is 31 years old, has a history of injury, has a contract up at season's end, and makes $6MM.Isn't so ridiculous if you think about it. Did I want the Yankees to get Gagne? Yes. Would I have been mad if they gave up Melky? Not really. But it's not really idiotic to say it's a good thing they didn't pull the trigger on that.
Never said it wasn't.
pitching. Look, you're right. However, I'm just fine with the Yankees staying young at the expense of a rental this year. If we make the playoffs, that'll be great, but I would put our chances of winning the WS, even if we make it at below 10%. No need to panic just to make it to the playoffs.You have to remember, the Yankees are about winning the World Series, not just making it there.
Dr. Detroit.
So is Baby Gagne going to get his precious closer job and unseat the better man because he's Eric F'ing Gagne?
looks like closer by committee, with Papelbon being the guy in the playoffs.
The real danger for the Sox here is that Okajima has been the best of the three thus far. Don't want to reduce his role.
Right, but the season starts in April.344 obp for the year, 351 for his career, 347 in over 1400 minor-league at-bats. Not saying he's not useful, he's just not really great.He is hitting over .320, with a .400 OBP and a .830 OPS since MayYes, he's 23. No, he's never going to develop a lot of power. Since he doesn't have a lot of speed either, that makes him a pretty ineffective offensive player, considering the position he has to play.Do you realize how young Melky is? You dont think he can improve?Very little power, average on-base skills, very good defense. If the Yanks were serious about going for the WC, trading him for Gagne would've been a complete no-brainer. You're blowing Melky up just because Damon has been so bad. Melky is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a bad team.Not for a 2 month rental of Gagne. Cabrera has been tearing the cover off the ball, is a better hitter than Damon right now, and is putting up close to Gold Glove level defense. He has been a God send.
All the Sox have to do is guarantee Gagne his bonuses and this problem will go away. I would more expect them to go that route.
That makes sense then.
I can get on board with that, if the team doesn't believe it can get there and win it. Just a surprising approach, I guess.pitching. Look, you're right. However, I'm just fine with the Yankees staying young at the expense of a rental this year. If we make the playoffs, that'll be great, but I would put our chances of winning the WS, even if we make it at below 10%. No need to panic just to make it to the playoffs.You have to remember, the Yankees are about winning the World Series, not just making it there.
Otsuka?
Thought he was hurt.
For a 23 year old to have a 351 OBP for his "career" isn't a bad thing, and it's not like that number is likely to go down.Right, but the season starts in April.344 obp for the year, 351 for his career, 347 in over 1400 minor-league at-bats. Not saying he's not useful, he's just not really great.He is hitting over .320, with a .400 OBP and a .830 OPS since MayYes, he's 23. No, he's never going to develop a lot of power. Since he doesn't have a lot of speed either, that makes him a pretty ineffective offensive player, considering the position he has to play.Do you realize how young Melky is? You dont think he can improve?Very little power, average on-base skills, very good defense. If the Yanks were serious about going for the WC, trading him for Gagne would've been a complete no-brainer. You're blowing Melky up just because Damon has been so bad. Melky is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a bad team.Not for a 2 month rental of Gagne. Cabrera has been tearing the cover off the ball, is a better hitter than Damon right now, and is putting up close to Gold Glove level defense. He has been a God send.
Jaoquin Benoit was just picked up in my league.
So you're just expecting a sudden jump at some point, despite having over 2200 professional at-bats and not showing that skill? 351 is ok if you're producing a lot of power or have another skill to use to contribute to the offense. He doesn't hit for power and he doesn't run. And he's playing a premium position where you expect one of those assets.I know you're a young-talent ####er, but Melky is nothing to get excited about.For a 23 year old to have a 351 OBP for his "career" isn't a bad thing, and it's not like that number is likely to go down.Right, but the season starts in April.344 obp for the year, 351 for his career, 347 in over 1400 minor-league at-bats. Not saying he's not useful, he's just not really great.He is hitting over .320, with a .400 OBP and a .830 OPS since MayYes, he's 23. No, he's never going to develop a lot of power. Since he doesn't have a lot of speed either, that makes him a pretty ineffective offensive player, considering the position he has to play.Do you realize how young Melky is? You dont think he can improve?Very little power, average on-base skills, very good defense. If the Yanks were serious about going for the WC, trading him for Gagne would've been a complete no-brainer. You're blowing Melky up just because Damon has been so bad. Melky is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a bad team.Not for a 2 month rental of Gagne. Cabrera has been tearing the cover off the ball, is a better hitter than Damon right now, and is putting up close to Gold Glove level defense. He has been a God send.
fwiw, matthew berry says benoit.
Mine too in the last 2 minutesJaoquin Benoit was just picked up in my league.
I never said he was great. Hes probably a career 3rd OFer. BUT to trade him for a 2 month rental is way too shortsighted especially considering that while the addition of Gagne would help tremendously the addition of Damon in CF would hurt just as much if not more.Right, but the season starts in April.344 obp for the year, 351 for his career, 347 in over 1400 minor-league at-bats. Not saying he's not useful, he's just not really great.He is hitting over .320, with a .400 OBP and a .830 OPS since MayYes, he's 23. No, he's never going to develop a lot of power. Since he doesn't have a lot of speed either, that makes him a pretty ineffective offensive player, considering the position he has to play.Do you realize how young Melky is? You dont think he can improve?Very little power, average on-base skills, very good defense. If the Yanks were serious about going for the WC, trading him for Gagne would've been a complete no-brainer. You're blowing Melky up just because Damon has been so bad. Melky is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a bad team.Not for a 2 month rental of Gagne. Cabrera has been tearing the cover off the ball, is a better hitter than Damon right now, and is putting up close to Gold Glove level defense. He has been a God send.
Center fielders aren't expected to have power.
news must travel slow up to those parts
I agree that he doesn't have power or speed. But he is a useful player (maybe not enough for a team like the Yankees, but still useful). I'd much rather have a guy who can get on base than a guy with all speed (Pierre, who can't get on base or hit for power) or all power (Dye, who can't get on base or run). I'm not expecting a huge power surge from Cabrera at all, Cappy. But at 23, it's too early to say he won't add power (Jose Reyes hit only 7 HR's in his first full season in the majors). Power is often one of the last things that develops in a prospect. And I wouldn't trade Melky at this point for Gagne because, as I've alluded to in this thread, I'm not very high on Gagne.So you're just expecting a sudden jump at some point, despite having over 2200 professional at-bats and not showing that skill? 351 is ok if you're producing a lot of power or have another skill to use to contribute to the offense. He doesn't hit for power and he doesn't run. And he's playing a premium position where you expect one of those assets.I know you're a young-talent ####er, but Melky is nothing to get excited about.For a 23 year old to have a 351 OBP for his "career" isn't a bad thing, and it's not like that number is likely to go down.Right, but the season starts in April.344 obp for the year, 351 for his career, 347 in over 1400 minor-league at-bats. Not saying he's not useful, he's just not really great.He is hitting over .320, with a .400 OBP and a .830 OPS since MayYes, he's 23. No, he's never going to develop a lot of power. Since he doesn't have a lot of speed either, that makes him a pretty ineffective offensive player, considering the position he has to play.Do you realize how young Melky is? You dont think he can improve?Very little power, average on-base skills, very good defense. If the Yanks were serious about going for the WC, trading him for Gagne would've been a complete no-brainer. You're blowing Melky up just because Damon has been so bad. Melky is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a bad team.Not for a 2 month rental of Gagne. Cabrera has been tearing the cover off the ball, is a better hitter than Damon right now, and is putting up close to Gold Glove level defense. He has been a God send.
They're expected to have speed, or at least be on-base more if they don't have any pop. Anyways, he's not being traded, so we should take it to another thread or drop it.
Last updated: 3:41 p.m.Sox have Gagne dealEric Gagne has reportedly agreed to come to the Red Sox and be the setup man, according to NESN's Tom Caron. The Sox would send outfield prospects David Murphy and Engel Beltre, along with pitcher Kason Gabbard, to Texas, according to NESN.
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The deal was pending Gagne waiving the NTC and was not final unliil a few mins ago. The deal was agreed to IN PRINCIPAL a while back but there were several sticking points (bonuses, etc) that had to be ironed out.
Any of these any good?Can we talk you into sosa while were at it?
I think they were the best before the deal. This is like putting a firecracker on top of dynamite.
I'm not all that sure why they did this outside of preventing him from going elsewhere. I guess they plan to win every playoff game 2-1.
Don't be silly, they'll win every playoff game 3-1, even if they have to start that wretched Wily Mo Pena.
)Gagne has real playoff value. I think it's a good deal for them..not because solely of who they got....but who they didn't give up. Gabbard (for all the hype from Sux fans about his last couple of starts) is decent....but is really projected to be anything but the 5th starter in the Sux rotation of the future? And Murphy and Barry Bonds Jr.......meh. These guys are a dime a dozen. If they had to give up legit blue chips for Gagne....I'd say the deal sucked.....but since they didn't (and they got a good relief pitcher and they stopped other teams from getting him) I can't argue with the deal. Come playoffs the Sox might have outsmarted themselves.....(with Wake usually going to the pen and the number of days between games) but what's the worst that will happen? And.... they didn't lose anything of real value.
