PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Im torn. I dont really like Gruden that much. However, i dont want cousins to have to learn a new scheme. But it wouldnt surprise me if gruden was gone and scott brought in his own guy.
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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
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CabinFever
Footballguy
Keep Cousins another year and bring in a rookie QB to groom. And I'm fine if Gruden goes. Looking forward to another draft with a competent GM
Sebowski
Footballguy
How do I like you now? I don't. Pound sand, Cousins. He sucked today. Missed all kinds of throws aside from his 2 stupid picks and taking all those sacks. Everything on the line and he blew it. Consequences. You're Brock Osweiler now. Not the one who got a big contract. The one that's on the bench. Come to grips with that and we can talk about an incentive type deal. 8-7-1 with the last taste being that horrid performance and you don't have much at the bargaining table. If Scot wants to pull the chord on Gruden as well, fine. Clean break from it would be ok by me. What a #### game today. Complete ####. Against a team with nothing to play for.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I'd sign Cousins to a reasonable long term contract. If he's still insisting on $20M+ a year, then no, I don't lock up that kind of money for a guy that still goes and throws horrible interceptions when things matter.
Like Rodney Harrison said about 1/2 hour ago. 'you can't find anything better because it isn't out there available' If you are looking at the draft, you may as well figure that you are the bottom of the division for the foreseeable future. With Cousins, you compete. There are 10 teams that would love to take him off the Redskins hands.
fatness
Footballguy
John Keim is right on the money there.
"Redskins blow golden chance The Redskins lost four of their last six games including the last two at home to miss the postseason. They controlled their fate multiple times but kept messing it up."
fatness
Footballguy
I pretty much agree. A deal that gets lucrative if he hit incentives if fine with me. A deal that's just a fat deal, no. He's not a QB that puts a team on his back when it counts, and he never will be. Surrounded by one of the better groups of receivers in the league he puts up lots of passing yardage. B. F. D.
And with the team coming out flat, confused, and disorganized so many times the last 2 years I've seen enough of Gruden. He's a pass-happy offensive coordinator with absolutely no sense of momentum or of clock management. It was unbelievable how the O-line stood like statues today while Giants raced past them, and how Cousins had no idea where the rush was coming from. Gruden and Cousins came up small.
People ask "where will the Skins be without Cousins?" and that's the wrong question to me. "Where will they be with him?" is the question. and the answer is 9-7, 8-7-1, while loaded with receivers.
fatness
Footballguy
Thanks man. I was all ready to be here today to celebrate. Instead, here we are staring at a plate of poop.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Opposite side of the dmv. Dulles, VA. Ocelot Brewing Company. Though I'm from Takoma Park.
If there are only ten teams that would take your QB off your hands, your QB isn't very good.
fatness
Footballguy
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Meh. Nothing wrong with the Redskins season at all. The offense is in good shape provided you bring in someone at WR to replace Garçon or DJax, whichever goes. The offense will further improve if you can find a back. Given the offensive numbers the past two years it's hard to imagine that it can still get exponentially better with a running game and a......
Defense. Yes, your defense is atrocious but do any of you honestly think it will be worse next year? I find that hard to fathom especially since Joe Barry(sp?) will get the axe.
So Kirk Cousins isn't Joe Montana, at least now you don't have to pay him 20 million a year.
It sucks for you you right now but you bastards will be back next year.
Defense. Yes, your defense is atrocious but do any of you honestly think it will be worse next year? I find that hard to fathom especially since Joe Barry(sp?) will get the axe.
So Kirk Cousins isn't Joe Montana, at least now you don't have to pay him 20 million a year.
It sucks for you you right now but you bastards will be back next year.
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
It almost looked like Washington was waiting for the Giants to pack it in for the day so they could steal a win. When that didn't happen, they were screwed.
The OL for the Skins was atrocious yesterday and, when they did manage to block someone, Cousins was jumping at shadows and making awful throws.
Cousins is OK, so I don't mind if they bring him back, but it shouldn't be for top tier money. I also don't think Cousins has the options that most people do, who's in the market for a QB? Some pretty crummy teams, it's in Kirk's best interest to work something out with Washington. Hopefully an incentive laden deal.
Well, that sucked.
I thought about posting last night but I was too pissed off, and not drunk enough.
Despite our all being realistic about this team's flaws (esp on Defensive side of the ball), we had multiple chances this year to into the playoffs, and at each juncture, we shat the bed. What's disturbing is not simply that we couldn't finish, but rather how completely flat, uninspired, and ill prepared we seemed in key games, most notably Carolina and New York down the stretch. I don't know whose deal that is -- whether the coach needs to get them emotionally prepared, or whether the team lacks a type of leadership, or what, but the "culture issue" is a very real, tangiable issue with this team that has to be addressed just as much as defensive line and safety.
Now, we're into the offseason, where tough decisions need to be made. Ironically enough, I think those decisions are easier on defense than on offense, because the defense has been so bad, you can take a heavy hand to it without really second guessing yourself. If Joe Barry is not fired this offseason, it will be truly, truly hard to watch this team next year. Don't get my wrong -- I'll watch (being addicted) -- but I won't like it. But it will be kind of like working side by side with a co-worker who is so incompetant you don't even feel comfortable looking him in the eye or joking with him...it just sucks having to swallow it day after day. Beyond that, we know the deal, we need guys to get pressure on the passer without blitzing; we need safeties. We're way under the cap...we can do it with a mix of free agency and draft, and we'll have to trust the GM to get it done. But I don't buy that it's all personell...for some reason Perry Riley and David Amerson are thriving elsewhere. Bottom line is we don't KNOW that our current defensive roster sucks because they haven't stunk with a good coaching staff yet. I think revamping the coaches therefore is more important than revamping the players. Yes, we need some new guys but a truly good defensive coach will elevate some of these guys.
Offense is a thornier issue because with the exception of a few we have guys who are "serviceable" but not "great," and "statistically" they have looked very good. First, the elephant in the room: Cousins. The past two years I have been on the Cousins bandwagon and I even was saying we should go with him when Griffin was here. And in that time, Cousins has improved until he is a good starting QB. But, he is not "great." Yesterday, when all the chips were on the table, "old Kirk" made an appearance, panicing and rushing his reads until he made poor decisions and game defining interceptions. Kirk, we thought you were OVER that? "It's just one game." Yes, the ONE GAME YOU NEEDED TO WIN TO GO THE PLAYOFFS. That's the point, he's great between the 20's -- a regular Joe Montana. He compiles huge stats. But in the Redzone, when the defense is tighter, he just can't move the ball with the same efficiency. And when the pressure is on, sometimes he comes through -- but sometimes he isn't. WHen he has great weapons and open reads, he gets the ball to the right guy and moves the ball. But when his steller supporting cast is injured or if coverage is tight, he doesn't have that "extra something" that a guy like Rogers has to be creative and make a play. In other words, he is a very good QB. But he is not a great QB. And this is pretty much the nightmare contract situation. If he sucked this year, let him walk. If he was great this year, sign him to a fat deal. Instead, he's very good. Honestly, we should keep him, because not keeping him means that we're starting someone worse and going into full re-building mode, and I think that's premature. If this team had a good defense, Cousins may be good enough for 10 wins and a punchers shot in the playoffs. But, we will likely have to overpay, because others will come knocking. Likely, we'll franchise him again and just eat $24 million. We have the cap money for it...we're way under the cap -- over 60 mill I think --, plus it's going up like 10 million. But, franchising would mean only a one year committment. Ideally, I would like to see us just sign him to a medium deal of like 3 years @ 23 million a year so we're not stuck for 5 years but we'll see what happens. It's a big issue at this point. But, we should sign him. WIth our cap situation, it's a myth that we can't sign Kirk and improve the the team as well. We have the money to do both. I hate it, because he is a good, but limited QB, and to win with a guy like that, you need a great defense, which we do not have, but what are we going to do -- blow the whole thing up?
Ditto with Gruden. Honestly, I don't think he's the answer. The culture problems and lack of preparedness fall on his head and it's a major f-ing issue. Once again yesterday. We have the ball 50 seconds to go before half and three timeouts, and the lack of urgency and time management was appalling. Gruden is the worst in the league at time management. But it's not just that, it's a general malaise or something. THey show him on the side lines and he just stands there looking confused like Carl from "Sling Blade." Tell him some folks call it a Kaiser Blade. But again, the team is right there on the cusp and you generally dont' fire a guy like that. But in my heart of hearts, do I believe that he's the guy to build a winning culture as HC, no.
Ditto with Robert Kelley, he's ok, but there's like 20 of him in every draft. We need someone who can make something happen. Basically a Matt Jones who doens't quit and doesn't fumble every third carry.
A bunch of guys who are good but not great...
Best we can hope for is to fire Barry and revamp the defense in the offseason...re-sign Cousins and try to get an upgrade at RB. Hopefully, with an average defense -- and a better rushing attack -- Cousins can do well enough for another playoff push. Bring back Gruden for continuity but if he fails to make the playoffs next year, will have to hit the re-set button on him the following year.
Dissapointed, and now sober.
BTW, wecome back Fatness...
I thought about posting last night but I was too pissed off, and not drunk enough.
Despite our all being realistic about this team's flaws (esp on Defensive side of the ball), we had multiple chances this year to into the playoffs, and at each juncture, we shat the bed. What's disturbing is not simply that we couldn't finish, but rather how completely flat, uninspired, and ill prepared we seemed in key games, most notably Carolina and New York down the stretch. I don't know whose deal that is -- whether the coach needs to get them emotionally prepared, or whether the team lacks a type of leadership, or what, but the "culture issue" is a very real, tangiable issue with this team that has to be addressed just as much as defensive line and safety.
Now, we're into the offseason, where tough decisions need to be made. Ironically enough, I think those decisions are easier on defense than on offense, because the defense has been so bad, you can take a heavy hand to it without really second guessing yourself. If Joe Barry is not fired this offseason, it will be truly, truly hard to watch this team next year. Don't get my wrong -- I'll watch (being addicted) -- but I won't like it. But it will be kind of like working side by side with a co-worker who is so incompetant you don't even feel comfortable looking him in the eye or joking with him...it just sucks having to swallow it day after day. Beyond that, we know the deal, we need guys to get pressure on the passer without blitzing; we need safeties. We're way under the cap...we can do it with a mix of free agency and draft, and we'll have to trust the GM to get it done. But I don't buy that it's all personell...for some reason Perry Riley and David Amerson are thriving elsewhere. Bottom line is we don't KNOW that our current defensive roster sucks because they haven't stunk with a good coaching staff yet. I think revamping the coaches therefore is more important than revamping the players. Yes, we need some new guys but a truly good defensive coach will elevate some of these guys.
Offense is a thornier issue because with the exception of a few we have guys who are "serviceable" but not "great," and "statistically" they have looked very good. First, the elephant in the room: Cousins. The past two years I have been on the Cousins bandwagon and I even was saying we should go with him when Griffin was here. And in that time, Cousins has improved until he is a good starting QB. But, he is not "great." Yesterday, when all the chips were on the table, "old Kirk" made an appearance, panicing and rushing his reads until he made poor decisions and game defining interceptions. Kirk, we thought you were OVER that? "It's just one game." Yes, the ONE GAME YOU NEEDED TO WIN TO GO THE PLAYOFFS. That's the point, he's great between the 20's -- a regular Joe Montana. He compiles huge stats. But in the Redzone, when the defense is tighter, he just can't move the ball with the same efficiency. And when the pressure is on, sometimes he comes through -- but sometimes he isn't. WHen he has great weapons and open reads, he gets the ball to the right guy and moves the ball. But when his steller supporting cast is injured or if coverage is tight, he doesn't have that "extra something" that a guy like Rogers has to be creative and make a play. In other words, he is a very good QB. But he is not a great QB. And this is pretty much the nightmare contract situation. If he sucked this year, let him walk. If he was great this year, sign him to a fat deal. Instead, he's very good. Honestly, we should keep him, because not keeping him means that we're starting someone worse and going into full re-building mode, and I think that's premature. If this team had a good defense, Cousins may be good enough for 10 wins and a punchers shot in the playoffs. But, we will likely have to overpay, because others will come knocking. Likely, we'll franchise him again and just eat $24 million. We have the cap money for it...we're way under the cap -- over 60 mill I think --, plus it's going up like 10 million. But, franchising would mean only a one year committment. Ideally, I would like to see us just sign him to a medium deal of like 3 years @ 23 million a year so we're not stuck for 5 years but we'll see what happens. It's a big issue at this point. But, we should sign him. WIth our cap situation, it's a myth that we can't sign Kirk and improve the the team as well. We have the money to do both. I hate it, because he is a good, but limited QB, and to win with a guy like that, you need a great defense, which we do not have, but what are we going to do -- blow the whole thing up?
Ditto with Gruden. Honestly, I don't think he's the answer. The culture problems and lack of preparedness fall on his head and it's a major f-ing issue. Once again yesterday. We have the ball 50 seconds to go before half and three timeouts, and the lack of urgency and time management was appalling. Gruden is the worst in the league at time management. But it's not just that, it's a general malaise or something. THey show him on the side lines and he just stands there looking confused like Carl from "Sling Blade." Tell him some folks call it a Kaiser Blade. But again, the team is right there on the cusp and you generally dont' fire a guy like that. But in my heart of hearts, do I believe that he's the guy to build a winning culture as HC, no.
Ditto with Robert Kelley, he's ok, but there's like 20 of him in every draft. We need someone who can make something happen. Basically a Matt Jones who doens't quit and doesn't fumble every third carry.
A bunch of guys who are good but not great...
Best we can hope for is to fire Barry and revamp the defense in the offseason...re-sign Cousins and try to get an upgrade at RB. Hopefully, with an average defense -- and a better rushing attack -- Cousins can do well enough for another playoff push. Bring back Gruden for continuity but if he fails to make the playoffs next year, will have to hit the re-set button on him the following year.
Dissapointed, and now sober.
BTW, wecome back Fatness...
fatness
Footballguy
I'm very sorry to hear that. Both parts.
Barry has to be gone. There's no competent defense in the league that has DB's pointing around and talking to each other, confused, right when and after the ball is snapped like the Skins do. He cannot get the team to know what it's supposed to do, or to do it well. If Barry does not go it'll be because Gruden went to bat for him, and that would be a huge strike against Gruden in my eyes.
I think we're OK on offense. Another coach can come in and do well offensively if he can teach and emphasize run blocking. The passing game has been and will continue to be good. it only faltered near the end zone, and that falls directly on coaching. The hesitation, uncertainty, confusion, distrust of what worked all the way down the field --- those are marks of a scared pass-happy coach which is how Gruden plays. And almost any coach can do better at it.
Defense needs help and it starts with the d-line. They've never had a decent nose tackle, and pretending to play a 3-4 without one defeats the whole scheme. The NT is supposed to occupy 2 blockers; if he can be handled by 1 then the defense is at a disadvantage. Safety is also a problem. LB isn't a strength or weakness, and I think we're OK at CB.
But Barry has to go. And Gruden needs to admit openly, at least to management, "this is what I'm poor at and this is how I plan to get better at it", or he's just going to keep doing the same crap and costing them games.
CabinFever
Footballguy
New coach and new elite RB would do wonders...along with a revamp defense of course. But seeing how much Dallas improved with Ellioit, I sure wouldn't mind if the Redskins invested in a good RB come April. I like Fat Rob, but he is JAG, and Matt Jones I don't think anyone has faith in at this point. Time to upgrade.
ListenIng to Kirk cousins interview on 106.7 the fan. He does not sound like a guy who is all in on returning to the Redskins. I think he would stay if they tag him or give him the beSt offer but there will be no home town discount. He said right out there would not be a discount.
im still predicting the tag is used and he implies that if tagged he would sign it.
im still predicting the tag is used and he implies that if tagged he would sign it.
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The Redskins need to understand that they are Kirk's best option as well. If he doesn't sign here where's he going to go? Cleveland? San Francisco? Chicago? Jacksonville? Jets? Have a good time on those Shat Shows.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
What is Cousins expecting? I view Cousins as mid range starter. Better than half and worse than half. No way he is a 20 million QB.
That last INT was a very bad decision. There was 1:20 left and The Redskins were in good positon to chip away for a FG attempt.
Yeah but what we think of as "deserves" does not set the qb market. This is a league in which osweiller got 17 mill. Kirk is good not great but mark my words someone will pay him.
Hes not going to turn down a higher offer just because of some perceived value. He's gonna take what he can get...
ps I agree with u about the ints
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Or if Mcvay gets a gig. Totally could see shanny doing it to be spiteful to Dan. I believe we should consider using the tag so we can at least get compensation.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Hall wants to come back. It sounds like its Skins or retire for him.
http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/redskins-hall-wants-return-will-consider-reworking-his-contract
http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/redskins-hall-wants-return-will-consider-reworking-his-contract
CabinFever
Footballguy
This is why the Redskins need a new coach...a great year, averaging a whopping 3.3 per carry over the last 6 weeks of the season. That's not great on any planet.
Redskins coach Jay Gruden believes Rob Kelley had a "great, great year," and expects him to be the team's feature back in 2017.
Redskins coach Jay Gruden believes Rob Kelley had a "great, great year," and expects him to be the team's feature back in 2017.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but let's look at the marketplace & Kurt Compiler's stats.
There were 12 QBs that made $20M in 2016. Cousins is not a $20M QB? True, he's a $19.95M QB. He was third in passing yards & 3rd-8th in a handful of others (Comp %, YPA, NYPA, GWC, et al.)
Honestly, when I have watched Cousins the last few years against a D that generates a decent amount of pressure, I'm amazed his stats are as good as they are by YE. I think he's a good QB - top 12-15 - but he'll never be great. He simply doesn't have the arm or the decision making capability that might take him to the next level.
All that said, there's zero chance a RFA QB making $19.95M who puts up top 8 numbers doesn't walk away with $22-24M from someone. That's just the reality of the QB landscape.
Lets pretend the Redskins don't want slap him with the franchise tag. Or that they'd entertain a tag and trade. Who then could they sign or trade for as his replacement for 2017?
Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Garrapolo, RGIII, Kapernick, Osweiller, Palmer, Rivers, Romo, Tannehill...that's pretty much your exhaustive list of startling QBs who might move in the off-season.
Tag him & sign him actually makes the most sense, warts & all.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I agree..but that being the case there needs to be a market correction.BobbyLayne said:
Like when Fitz was holding out with the Jets, Jets finally raised their price to 12 million but Fitz is still Fitz and never going to win anywhere. The Jets could have put that 12 million into 3-4 or 5 players who could have helped the team and went with Geno Smith and had a better season. Teams have to learn investing that kind of money into below average QBs does not work out.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Not to be argumentative here, but they signed him the day before TC started. There probably wasn't a lot of opportunity cost that prevented them from signing other guys during/after PS. They made him the 24th highest paid QB - every starting QB who made less was either still on his rookie contract or a recycled mediocre QB like RGIII/McCown.
I get that you find the marketplace price abhorrent but within the context of the going rate, a $2M base/$10M bonus was just about the minimum amount they had to spend. It was a 1-year deal - minimal cap hit or dead money to deal with later.
The Jets roster management has been abysmal and they have old vets with no upside littered throughout the 53-man, but there was very little reason to not bring Fitz back at that price.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Sorry 'skins fans - kind of littering in your thread.
Bottom line is this team is not going to be in rebuild mode, so they should bring Cousind back for 2017. Beyond that is up for debate, but he is their best option unless you think it's the right time to blow everything up & start over.
Bottom line is this team is not going to be in rebuild mode, so they should bring Cousind back for 2017. Beyond that is up for debate, but he is their best option unless you think it's the right time to blow everything up & start over.
fatness
Footballguy
Da Guru said:
BobbyLayne said:
I just finished looking at stats and Cousins is 13th in TD's and about 16th in INT's, on an 8-7-1 team. He's somewhere around where you both have him pegged. And I don't really think he'll ever be more than that. His decisionmaking under pressure just sucks, he needs a lot of good players around him to get his team to 9-7 or 8-7-1, and I don't sense much drive to keep getting better. He thinks he already has his money made.
CabinFever
Footballguy
And now this new news about concern for BOTH of Docton's Achilles 
fatness
Footballguy
At first I was going to agree with you but then I started thinking position by position.
They need one or 2 O-line upgrades. Lauvao is bad and Spencer Long spends way too much time getting pushed back. They are fine at WR BUT if they let Garcon and Jackson go, they've got Crowder and a rookie who has a mystery ailment and may not be healthy next year -- Doctson. At RB they need more than Kelly; he should be the 2nd or 3rd RB, and Jones should just hit the road, he's a failure unless you like injuries and fumbles.
The entire defensive line needs an upgrade with the exception of Chris Baker who's a free agent. There is just nobody there who is any good. LB is a mix. Kerrigan is Kerrigan -- overwhelming when he's facing a poor blocker, he's not hurt, and they don't keep running at his side while he rushes wide like Bruce Smith. The other 11 games a year you don't hear his name much. Trenty Murphy surprised me this year because he finally learned to pass rush. Preston Smith started well but kept playing with injuries and tailed off. Last year Compton and Foster looked good because they were noticeably better than the guys they replaced, but this year they struggled to be average. Foster makes a lot of tackles, but Compton is just slow and is beaten regularly when he's in coverage. The CB's are fine, but who the hell can play safety reliably here? Hall wants to come back and I love the guy, but his body's failing him now.
So while that may not be "rebuild mode", it's a hell of a lot of players who need to be replaced either due to lack of ability or because they'll be going elsewhere. We're not as bare of talent as in past years, but the roster is a long way from being a good solid roster. There may be a good bit of turnover this offseason, more than we're realizing.
