GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Wouldn’t surprise me if the discussion was how much the article could point the finger at Snyder. If so, the answer seems to be “not much”.
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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (5 Viewers)
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Doug B
Footballguy
Certainly possible. Nowadays though the internet/social media can do it for him without any involvement
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
IMO even based on just whats in the article, i still think it is grounds for Snyder to sell. This happened under his watch. It wasn't just one or a few incidents or people. He allowed a culture to prevail that enabled this to happen. He is a part of the problem. I also dont buy for a second that he did not know this was happening. If he really loves this team like he says he does he will sell and step aside.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
This is still awful. Just because it’s not Epstein levels of awful doesn’t mean it’s no big deal or nothing to worry about.
Even if he wasn’t an active participant, Snyder created the atmosphere that allowed this behavior to flourish. That plus the cheerleader scandal of 2018 casts him and his executive team in a deeply problematic light. It’s no wonder the minority shareholders are revolting.
Even if he wasn’t an active participant, Snyder created the atmosphere that allowed this behavior to flourish. That plus the cheerleader scandal of 2018 casts him and his executive team in a deeply problematic light. It’s no wonder the minority shareholders are revolting.
Whatever moral failing this was from Snyder I really would be shocked if this affects his ownership or comes even close unless there is more not published at this time
Mark Cuban didn't have to sell the Mavericks.
Jerry Richardson had to sell but he was directly accused
The cheerleader scandal was worse and nothing came of it
This too will be forgotten in a week
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
If they didn’t make Kraft sell for whats “happened under his watch” there’s no chance Snyder sells
Fear The Turtle
Footballguy
I admit it, I laughed when I read that Snyder made Dennis Greene, the former sales executive who was a college cheerleader, do cartwheels after an executive staff meeting.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/16/redskins-story-report-takeaways/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_takeaways-610pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans
“The article goes into detail about each takeaway and is worth a read. For brevity below are the main points discussed in the article.
1. The team environment tolerated frequent sexual harassment and verbal abuse of female employees.
2. Washington’s NFL team didn’t have the proper structure to handle harassment complaints.
3. Snyder belittled executives, helping to create an uncomfortable workplace for everyone.
4. The team has hired an outside attorney to study the franchise’s culture.
5. Alex Santos, Richard Mann II and Larry Michael all left the team after complaints were raised.”
“The article goes into detail about each takeaway and is worth a read. For brevity below are the main points discussed in the article.
1. The team environment tolerated frequent sexual harassment and verbal abuse of female employees.
2. Washington’s NFL team didn’t have the proper structure to handle harassment complaints.
3. Snyder belittled executives, helping to create an uncomfortable workplace for everyone.
4. The team has hired an outside attorney to study the franchise’s culture.
5. Alex Santos, Richard Mann II and Larry Michael all left the team after complaints were raised.”
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ron-rivera-responds-to-washington-sexual-harassment-report-i-sure-as-hell-am-not-going-to-allow-any-of-this/
Gotta love Ron. Imagine someone accidentally pulling this with his daughter
Gotta love Ron. Imagine someone accidentally pulling this with his daughter
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Nope. I expected even more shocking revelations. Nothing in this report surprised me at all.Does this surprise anyone? The franchise is/has been a dumpster
He wasn't saying it wasn't terrible... but ya, it was blowing up on twitter all day and sounding like the scandal of the century.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
wgoldsph
Footballguy
There was a huge buildup. Multiple reporters talking about how something huge was coming.
Yes, and other places. It was being 'leaked' by reporters and seemed like the organization was going to crumble because of it. So his comment about it not being "as" huge as it was hyped up to be, was relevant.
The Frankman
Footballguy
It's the additive aspect of a institutionalized toxic culture. The Trent Williams saga, the cheerleader scandal awhile back, it's over a decade of dysfunction... I mean the minority shareholders are looking to bail and mass firings have already begun as Washington and their law team are trying to get ahead of it. From that aspect, a team that has been rocked by many a scandal over the years just got another big one.
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Look, those of us who have followed this team for decades already knew that Snyder was and is a terrible owner who presided over a toxic and dysfunctional culture, Bruce Allen's comments not withstanding. To many of us, this piece is much less of a bombshell than simply one more example of how Snyder has created a terrible culture. I was expecting the piece to be something "new"...it's not really. Based on that 2018 piece about Skins Cheerleaders, duh, we could kind of figure out women in th worked in this kind of environment. With that said:
1. Yes, Snyder is a jerk. Agreed. Also agreed that the org is going to have to pay a price for these crimes, as provided for by the law. There are laws against sexual harrassment in the workplace that can be litigated. Talk of "forcing Snyder to sell" is more of an "NFL PR decision" and a lot of factors have to go into that.
2. On removing Snyder -- I'm not seeing it. I think if you used the argument: "any team with jock culture where women are harrassed" as your standard, then more than the Redskins would be implicated. Fans of other teams are celebrating like their front offices are occupied by a bunch of feminists and social justice warriors. But come on, these front offices are dominated by male athletes, many of whom have had their way with women their whole lives. I talked with my wife about this story and she was like, "yeah, well this is what it has been like for women a lot of places they work. When I worked at the grocery store, my manager would walk around grabbing employee's butts, etc." Point it, this is bad. But don't act like we just caught the one bad organization and once we purge it from our ranks, then it's all good. NFL needs to condemn Washington's behavior but stop short of draconian penalties. They will be fencing themselves in the next time an accusation comes up regarding another club.
3. On football fans -- fans of other teams will pretend like they are morally superior now but in the end this "scandal" will not be as impactful in the minds of football fans than other ills by Snyder related to making the team a pereniall loser. Seriously, the average football fan cares more about Snyder trading away too many picks for RG3 or Tom Brady Deflating footballs than whether there is a sexual harrassment case in the front office. I'm not saying that's right. I'm saying that's how I think it is. Football fans get passionate about winning. And if Snyder does things to make DC a loser, that's what people get most pissed off about.
This case should be litigated and the org should pay the price as provided for by the law. As for this somehow being a bombshell that will shake the org to it's core, as media members have been hyping, sorry I don't see it.
Sorry if this is a cynical attitude. Don't take it as I don't care. I have a wife and daughter. This case should go forward and the team should pay. But keep it in context that's all...
1. Yes, Snyder is a jerk. Agreed. Also agreed that the org is going to have to pay a price for these crimes, as provided for by the law. There are laws against sexual harrassment in the workplace that can be litigated. Talk of "forcing Snyder to sell" is more of an "NFL PR decision" and a lot of factors have to go into that.
2. On removing Snyder -- I'm not seeing it. I think if you used the argument: "any team with jock culture where women are harrassed" as your standard, then more than the Redskins would be implicated. Fans of other teams are celebrating like their front offices are occupied by a bunch of feminists and social justice warriors. But come on, these front offices are dominated by male athletes, many of whom have had their way with women their whole lives. I talked with my wife about this story and she was like, "yeah, well this is what it has been like for women a lot of places they work. When I worked at the grocery store, my manager would walk around grabbing employee's butts, etc." Point it, this is bad. But don't act like we just caught the one bad organization and once we purge it from our ranks, then it's all good. NFL needs to condemn Washington's behavior but stop short of draconian penalties. They will be fencing themselves in the next time an accusation comes up regarding another club.
3. On football fans -- fans of other teams will pretend like they are morally superior now but in the end this "scandal" will not be as impactful in the minds of football fans than other ills by Snyder related to making the team a pereniall loser. Seriously, the average football fan cares more about Snyder trading away too many picks for RG3 or Tom Brady Deflating footballs than whether there is a sexual harrassment case in the front office. I'm not saying that's right. I'm saying that's how I think it is. Football fans get passionate about winning. And if Snyder does things to make DC a loser, that's what people get most pissed off about.
This case should be litigated and the org should pay the price as provided for by the law. As for this somehow being a bombshell that will shake the org to it's core, as media members have been hyping, sorry I don't see it.
Sorry if this is a cynical attitude. Don't take it as I don't care. I have a wife and daughter. This case should go forward and the team should pay. But keep it in context that's all...
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The women are afraid to name-names because they signed NDAs when they were hired. That is why the Washington team lawyered-up.
... 14 of 15 former employees who allege sexual harassment refused to be identified due to fears of litigation arising from nondisclosure agreements that include express threats of legal reprisals, it’s possible if not likely that Snyder knew all about any complaints that would have been made to support the severance agreements containing a confidentiality clause.
That said, it’s possible that each and every one of the 14 agreements was a general and perfunctory document signed by employees in exchange for severance pay, independent of a specific claim of misconduct. Without more information as to the circumstances of each employee’s NDA, it’s impossible to know with certainty what Snyder would have specifically known.
Independent of claim of misconduct? WTfreak NDA has that wording as terms of employment. If the org shows misconduct you not allowed to talk of it or face legal action?
The only reason we're hearing anything is one of the women was brave enough to talk on record regardless of the NDA.
I don't know what happened but that sort of wording 'Independent of misconduct' WTfreak?
Is that SOP for an NDA?
... 14 of 15 former employees who allege sexual harassment refused to be identified due to fears of litigation arising from nondisclosure agreements that include express threats of legal reprisals, it’s possible if not likely that Snyder knew all about any complaints that would have been made to support the severance agreements containing a confidentiality clause.
That said, it’s possible that each and every one of the 14 agreements was a general and perfunctory document signed by employees in exchange for severance pay, independent of a specific claim of misconduct. Without more information as to the circumstances of each employee’s NDA, it’s impossible to know with certainty what Snyder would have specifically known.
Independent of claim of misconduct? WTfreak NDA has that wording as terms of employment. If the org shows misconduct you not allowed to talk of it or face legal action?
The only reason we're hearing anything is one of the women was brave enough to talk on record regardless of the NDA.
I don't know what happened but that sort of wording 'Independent of misconduct' WTfreak?
Is that SOP for an NDA?
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It is very clear Snyder will not be forced to sell. They apparently knew about this article for a while. The results:
1. Minority owners want out. If sale was imminent, they would not need to do that.
2. Michael, Santos, and Mann are gone. And replacements for Santos and Mann were immediately announced. That shows these were not abrupt firings.
The insiders know where this is heading. And all signs point to Snyder remaining the owner.
1. Minority owners want out. If sale was imminent, they would not need to do that.
2. Michael, Santos, and Mann are gone. And replacements for Santos and Mann were immediately announced. That shows these were not abrupt firings.
The insiders know where this is heading. And all signs point to Snyder remaining the owner.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
facook
Footballguy
I may be alone on this, but I have zero doubt this is only part of the story. As you mention the cheerleader scandal, smearing Mcloughan on his way out the door, the rumors (and pics/video) of Gruden's womanizing while he was employed, etc etc etc. Ashburn is a cesspool of unethical and illicit behavior - and there's one guy overseeing it all.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
I am inclined to agree. I would not be surprised if the Post story initially included far worse things that the lawyers nixed because the reporter(s) didn't yet have enough evidence.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
So you're saying a 70 year old man visiting a massage parlor is worse than an organization taking cheerleaders passports away until the performed escort services for high dollar clients?
What color is the sky in your world?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Ok this is crazy: https://www.instagram.com/p/CCwVKDPn4cV/?igshid=szr1y4lcmftr
gruden trying to fight players
gruden trying to fight players
Left out the part about the massage parlor employees being trafficked into the country?
And Snyder already somehow survived the cheerleader thing--which was worse than this, so I don't see it taking him down--assuming there is nothing else left to come
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Anything else noteworthy come to mind with what happened under Kraft’s watch that comes to mind? Like, I don’t know, cheating, murders, cheating, more cheating and a rub and tug?
Casting Couch
Footballguy
So now you're somehow connecting the Hernandez murders directly to Kraft ?
You are sadly misguided.
rockaction
Footballguy
The line of thinking went "...along his watch, A and B happened"
Not really misguided to point out exactly how bad the Patriots have been if that's the standard.
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The Frankman
Footballguy
Sounds like he'll "live". He really shouldn't but what do I know...
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Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I hate Snyder. Did he know this was going on ... likely. Might have even encouraged it. Probably. But unless he is directly involved he's not going anywhere. Even the dumbest of lawyers can find a way to shield him in this one. If the season starts, this will go by the wayside.
He's basically found a way like always to shield himself.
He's basically found a way like always to shield himself.
- Fire Bruce to hide awful personnel moves -- done
- Fire Gruden to hide that he hired a bad coach - done
- Fire some department types to cover for sexual harassment issues - done
- Fire Larry Michaels to get rid of the voice of the last 10 or so years - done
- Change the name to get rid of 20 years of problems around it - done
- Hire a coach that has high morals - done
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Point being it’s hard to say who knew what in these situations and if he wasn’t forced to sell for what he’s been apart of no chance Snyder will either.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I'm not bashing anyone that filed a complaint. Just asking a question based on what I feel I would have done in this situation.
If I went to work dreading the day because I thought I would get harassed or be intimidated by my boss or coworkers, I'd get the hell out of there and go find another job. Why stay? Was the pay that good? Why would anyone tolerate that behavior and stay in a job like that? It's just baffling to me.
If I went to work dreading the day because I thought I would get harassed or be intimidated by my boss or coworkers, I'd get the hell out of there and go find another job. Why stay? Was the pay that good? Why would anyone tolerate that behavior and stay in a job like that? It's just baffling to me.
I once heard the Redskins compared to a reverse car wash: People come in clean, and leave really dirty.
Go DC Yourself
Footballguy
Speaking of which, has anyone gotten Snyder-whisperer Joe Gibbs reaction to all this?
My wife says the same thing. She says the behavior described in the Post is widespread throughout society. The chances that this behavior is not occurring in many, if not all, NFL clubs, is slim to none.Marvelous said:
As far as the NFL using it to tell other orgs to clean their act up...I don't know. I think pretty much everything the league does is for PR, to make their image look squeaky clean. I think they are most interested in everyone thinking they are squeaky clean -- whether or not the clubs really are or are not.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
The difference is in the infrastructure to combat this kind of thing. I work in a much smaller company with a much smaller budget, but we've got three hr people. While this kind of thing is probably widespread, handling it on a professional level should be something Washington no names should have been better prepared to do.
For sure, I agree with you that some organizations are much better than others at handling this. But many are not, even at the organizational level. So while I agree with you that the key is to have a good infrastructure and that the Skins do NOT have it. However, where I am agreeing with Mr. and Mrs. Marvelous is regarding the likelihood that this same situation does occur elsewhere. And women who support the "Me Too" movement will point out that many, many organizations -- unlike yours -- do not have supportive structures in place to protect women. It's simply not the case that women's rights advocates say that "it's only the bad apples." More frequently, they talk of "systemic problems."
This is not to disagree with your point that a good HR infrastructure is crucial...I just think it's missing for the support of women victims more than we think...
The lack of infrastructure shows the owner does not care about HR issues, including sexual harassment, EEOC, standard policies, benefits, etc. One part time person cannot do all that for a largish organization.
Presence of infrastructure can help, but no guarantee that all the HR issues will be addressed adequately. Plus there are always people who can work around the policies. I am sure sexual harassers do it all the time even in large companies with robust HR departments.
Presence of infrastructure can help, but no guarantee that all the HR issues will be addressed adequately. Plus there are always people who can work around the policies. I am sure sexual harassers do it all the time even in large companies with robust HR departments.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Saw this today regarding the name...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Redskins/comments/hvo3s4/possibly_discovered_the_new_name/
“
I took the 12 most popular options for Washington's new name, and created a list of likely domains from each one, for a total of 60 domains.
Warriors
Redtails
Redwolves
Redhawks
Redhogs
Renegades
Americans
Presidents
Sentinels
Federals
Generals
Senators
Example of domains created for Redwolves:
Redwolves.com
WashingtonRedwolves.com
DCRedwolves.com
TheRedwolves.com
RedwolvesOnline.com
I then took the list of 60 domains, and ran a script that pulled whois info and hosting details (if available) to compare to the Redskins.com domain/hosting, to see if I could find any similarities.
I found just 1 domain that had similarities to Redskins.com and that was DCSentinels.com.
On July 15th, 2020, DCSentinels.com was transferred to the MarkMonitor registrar, which is a service/registrar that all NFL teams use for their domains.
Screenshot of Redskins.com Whois Info
Screenshot of DCSentinels.com Whois info
From MarkMonitor's website:
MarkMonitor helps establish and protect the online presence of the world’s leading brands – and the billions who use them.
Washington Sentinels is also one of the very few options that hasn't been trademarked by Martin McCaulay.
Now maybe this means nothing and it's just a coincidence that this domain was transferred to the same domain management/security service that the NFL uses for all their team domains, however I thought it was worth sharing nonetheless.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/Redskins/comments/hvo3s4/possibly_discovered_the_new_name/
“
I took the 12 most popular options for Washington's new name, and created a list of likely domains from each one, for a total of 60 domains.
Warriors
Redtails
Redwolves
Redhawks
Redhogs
Renegades
Americans
Presidents
Sentinels
Federals
Generals
Senators
Example of domains created for Redwolves:
Redwolves.com
WashingtonRedwolves.com
DCRedwolves.com
TheRedwolves.com
RedwolvesOnline.com
I then took the list of 60 domains, and ran a script that pulled whois info and hosting details (if available) to compare to the Redskins.com domain/hosting, to see if I could find any similarities.
I found just 1 domain that had similarities to Redskins.com and that was DCSentinels.com.
On July 15th, 2020, DCSentinels.com was transferred to the MarkMonitor registrar, which is a service/registrar that all NFL teams use for their domains.
Screenshot of Redskins.com Whois Info
Screenshot of DCSentinels.com Whois info
From MarkMonitor's website:
MarkMonitor helps establish and protect the online presence of the world’s leading brands – and the billions who use them.
Washington Sentinels is also one of the very few options that hasn't been trademarked by Martin McCaulay.
Now maybe this means nothing and it's just a coincidence that this domain was transferred to the same domain management/security service that the NFL uses for all their team domains, however I thought it was worth sharing nonetheless.”
