You could see Haskins didn’t have it. Hindsight I know but Rivera should Have made the switch sooner. In retrospect a bad coaching decision on his part...
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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
This exactly. I bet Rivera regrets starting Haskins today. He should have done what his gut probably told him, bench or suspend Haskins following Strippergate and go with Heineke or Montez. They literally couldn’t have been any worse today.
Instead he most likely compromised his beliefs and went with Trashkins against his better judgment. I will say that if the ultimate goal of this season was a culture change, I think it was a success. But the player that clearly doesn’t fit with this movement is Haskins. Besides the fact that he stinks and should be out of the league in a few years, his body language and attitude is just terrible. There were times they showed him on the sidelines and it looked like he was ready to take a nap.
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
If Alex can’t go next week, I really don’t like their chances against Philly. Whoever is back there, it can’t be Haskins. If Ron had given Haskins the hook at halftime we might have had a shot today. There is literally no reason to start Haskins next week. He is terrible and his time in DC is over.
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Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Haskins 100% done in DC. He's so immobile it's sad. And he doesn't have the vision nor playbook comprehension to be a pocket passer.
Hopefully Smith can go next week. Heineken backup.
Smith will likely be here next year, but I think in backup capacity if they can find another option. I mean, Heinicke and Kyle Allen have looked better than both Smith and Haskins It's simply their mobility. Heinecke kept a lot of plays alive with his feet. Smith used to. Not so much now. Smith getting by with smarts, which is fine.
I think Rivera wishes he had stared Heinicke today too. At least in the second half. It's almost like he was trying to prove beyond a doubt that Haskins isn't the guy. I don't even expect Haskins to travel to Philly. Especially after that running on the field move when Heinicke was in the game. Who does that? He doesn't even realize he is done-ski. He should have left the stadium with 5 mins left, fired up his bentley, and headed to Mpire to snap some selfies.
I expect a win next week. Nervous about it for sure. But the Eagles are really bad right now.
Hopefully Smith can go next week. Heineken backup.
Smith will likely be here next year, but I think in backup capacity if they can find another option. I mean, Heinicke and Kyle Allen have looked better than both Smith and Haskins It's simply their mobility. Heinecke kept a lot of plays alive with his feet. Smith used to. Not so much now. Smith getting by with smarts, which is fine.
I think Rivera wishes he had stared Heinicke today too. At least in the second half. It's almost like he was trying to prove beyond a doubt that Haskins isn't the guy. I don't even expect Haskins to travel to Philly. Especially after that running on the field move when Heinicke was in the game. Who does that? He doesn't even realize he is done-ski. He should have left the stadium with 5 mins left, fired up his bentley, and headed to Mpire to snap some selfies.
I expect a win next week. Nervous about it for sure. But the Eagles are really bad right now.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
I dont think it was a bad decision. Hes building a team right now so he needed to see what he had. Thats important otherwise they may not know when its time to cut bait. Now they know. Plus a new GM is coming in. Its best to evaluate everyone and move forward.
Having said all that i wanted Haskins to work. But the guy is too immature and not ready to put the work in. Maybe one day he will. He has the talent i believe but he was always a project or at least he was when drafted. But for this roster when no veteran to sit behind and learn for a year or two plus his immaturity its time to move on.
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babydemon90
Footballguy
Haskins literally beat Philly week one, so he certainly can do it. DOn't underestimate the ability of the Philly Defense to make ordinary QB's look great.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I don't blame Rivera for keeping Haskins in there too long. In hindsight it was wrong, but who would expect the practice squad guy to give you a better chance to win?
I DO blame him for letting Haskins start in the first place. If you want a culture change, making Haskins inactive would have proven you're really in it for the long-term turnaround. You're willing to give up a shot at the playoffs to make your point that you want a certain type of guy on the team.
Turns out it might have gotten them to the playoffs, too. But again, hindsight.
I DO blame him for letting Haskins start in the first place. If you want a culture change, making Haskins inactive would have proven you're really in it for the long-term turnaround. You're willing to give up a shot at the playoffs to make your point that you want a certain type of guy on the team.
Turns out it might have gotten them to the playoffs, too. But again, hindsight.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Philly was missing like it’s entire starting line that game, and as we now know, Wentz is a shell of his former self. The Skins D feasted in an obvious smash spot. They are a much better team with Hurts now in there. It will be a much different game this time around.babydemon90 said:
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Rivera should have pulled Haskins at halftime. He clearly didn’t have it yesterday and it was apparent pretty early. One half of football was enough. And the practice squad guy did spend a year in Carolina, so he was at least familiar with the offensive play calls.
Given the week Haskins had, and his already proven record of slow starts and not being ready for game day, Rivera should have had him on a much shorter leash. But I agree with you that he shouldn’t have played in the first place. Establishing a culture change was the main goal of this season, and Haskins flies in the face of it.
Philly is early betting favorites for this game, as they should be. WFT needs to ignore the hype created during their 4 game win streak. Approach this game as underdogs and try to scrap for a win.
I’m not buying the narrative that we’re better than Philly. With hurts they are better. Without Smith, they are far better and would likely need to implode to lose.
And if Haskins plays even a Philly implosion will probably not give WFT a win.
WFT needs to play the perfect game to even have a chance. I’m not optimistic but of course, I hope I’m wrong.
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
I have very little confidence in the WFT's ability to win this game right now. If Haskins is behind center, I have none. My silver lining, if WFT loses, I think it would be absolutely hilarious to see the NYG beat Dallas and go in as the conference champ with a 6-10 record.
Having watched zero of the game, it's obvious to me that Rivera was between a rock and a hard place due to Haskins behavior this past week. Especially this past week, but it has been festering all season.
Can't cut him, even though he should have.
Can't bench him, even though he should have.
Can't suspend him, even though he should have.
From a purely head-coaching point of view, it should have been very clear early in the game that Haskins was actively preventing them from competing. I have no idea why he didn't pull the plug until it was already too late.
Can't cut him, even though he should have.
Can't bench him, even though he should have.
Can't suspend him, even though he should have.
From a purely head-coaching point of view, it should have been very clear early in the game that Haskins was actively preventing them from competing. I have no idea why he didn't pull the plug until it was already too late.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
He made his point. Sometimes folks need to learn the hard way.
Snyder isn’t in a position to be stirring things up right now either.
now the team knows it’s all business going forward.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Yeah, Rivera was in a tough spot last week but this had to be done. This tells me that they must think Smith is very close.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Another wasted draft pick for this franchise. Their record on 1st round picks since Snyder took over has been atrocious. The only saving grace of the Haskins draft was the FO was to trade back into the first to get Sweat, who should have been the pick at 15 if Snyder didn’t sabatoge that pick.
dgreen
Footballguy
I don't think it says anything about Smith. I think this is all about Haskins. I wish him luck going forward. Hopefully he can pull it together.
dgreen
Footballguy
It's not that bad. I think most people expect to hit on more first rounders than is realistic. They've been at their worst when they go QB "because you just HAVE to draft a QB in the first round if you need one!" RG3 made sense. Everyone would have taken him at #2. (Yes, I'm ignoring the trade aspect and just focusing on the pick itself.) But, IIRC, Ramsey, Campbell, and Haskins were all considered too high and none of them justified a first round pick being used on them.
I'd say they've done a good job on 11 of their 19 first round picks since 2000 and 8 of their last 11.
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
I wouldn’t give them that high a score, but to each his own. It’s been better in recent years as they have had some no brainer picks fall into their laps (Allen, Sweat) but their record outside of the top 5 picks is not good, and embarrassing when it comes to skill positions (WR and QB). And yes, everyone would have picked RG3 at 2, but not everyone would have backed up the Brinks truck to get him. But I don’t even hold that pick against them as injury derailed RG3 more than anything else.
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dgreen
Footballguy
(FYI, I updated the numbers slightly in my original post after recounting.)
I think there are 10 picks that are clearly good picks:
- Chase Young
- Montez Sweat
- Da'Ron Payne
- Jonathan Allen
- Brandon Scherff
- Ryan Kerrigan
- Trent Williams
- Brian Orakpo
- Sean Taylor
- Chris Samuels
- Carlos Rogers
- Robert Griffin III
- Lavar Arrington
- Dwayne Haskins
- Josh Doctson
- LaRon Landry
- Jason Campbell
- Patrick Ramsey
- Rod Gardner
Kevrunner
Footballguy
The 2005 draft, Washington selected Carlos Rogers with their 1st first round pick, and then traded up to get pick #25 to select Jason Campbell, if they had just traded up to pick #24, only one spot sooner, they could have drafted Aaron Rodgers, just imagine if that had happened.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Look, I think taking a QB every year until you find one is smart. No mater which round. Take them until you find the guy. Even if you go spend the money on a high paid vet. You always need more in the coffers.
So they missed with Haskins. Fine. The problem is the owner got involved and they took the wrong one. The scouts didn't want Haskins. Gruden didn't want him. Rivera got stuck w him. Snyder needs to fight his lawsuits and stay out of the building. Pretty much every scout will say the most important QB attributes are "accuracy" and "pocket movement". Haskins has neither. He was doomed more from that than from being an idiot.
Just gonna look back a few years since longer term isn't much relevant to the current team.
When Gruden left one of his closing remarks was he thought he did a good job evaluating talent. I can't argue with the guys I would think he took (and Rivera took). Doctson is on McCloughan. Haskins is on Snyder. Poor 1st rounders. Gruden wanted Allen, McLaurin and Sweat (in Haskins draft slot). holcomb, Piersbacher, and ionnidis too. Rivera wanted Gibson and Curl. And I guess Young. The hit rate by the coaches is fairly high.
Glad they are moving on from Haskins. Let's see how Smith and the beer can do to close out the year.
So they missed with Haskins. Fine. The problem is the owner got involved and they took the wrong one. The scouts didn't want Haskins. Gruden didn't want him. Rivera got stuck w him. Snyder needs to fight his lawsuits and stay out of the building. Pretty much every scout will say the most important QB attributes are "accuracy" and "pocket movement". Haskins has neither. He was doomed more from that than from being an idiot.
Just gonna look back a few years since longer term isn't much relevant to the current team.
When Gruden left one of his closing remarks was he thought he did a good job evaluating talent. I can't argue with the guys I would think he took (and Rivera took). Doctson is on McCloughan. Haskins is on Snyder. Poor 1st rounders. Gruden wanted Allen, McLaurin and Sweat (in Haskins draft slot). holcomb, Piersbacher, and ionnidis too. Rivera wanted Gibson and Curl. And I guess Young. The hit rate by the coaches is fairly high.
Glad they are moving on from Haskins. Let's see how Smith and the beer can do to close out the year.
Great post, and ironically it has me thinking “I wish we had Jason campbell right now!”
That same draft, Alex Smith went # 1 overall. A lot of people passed on Rodgers. Gibbs was here for th Campbell picked and really liked him..
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Just wished Gibbs really liked Rodgers instead, nobody expected Rodgers to fall that far before the draft. There is some good video of Rodgers waiting in the Green Room during the draft.
That said, I want to apologize to you in advance because we are going to hurt your draft position this Sunday.
Insein
Footballguy
Don't sell our secondary short. They're tremendous slouches.That said, I want to apologize to you in advance because we are going to hurt your draft position this Sunday.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Is it bad i still like Campbell?
Always felt he never got a good chance. Rg3 was a good pick but didn’t work out obviously. I think that was due to a number of things but all in all i think we had to take him there. Maybe minus reading away the Farm however. I think that was the mistake. Haskins was an issue due to terrible team management. Im Ok with that pick if they had a plan but we did not. Knowing we needed a qb ASAP we should have gone another route or traded down.
basically it’s all Snyder’s fault
If that had happened, Aaron Rodgers would be just another nobody who failed out of the league. There is no way, No Way that Washington could have groomed him into 25% of the QB he is today.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
That's what I keep saying to fellow Eagle fans who think if we drafted Metcalf or Jefferson they'd be half as good in Philly as they are where they landed. Half the battle for a successful player is finding a spot where the team understands how to use you and then does it. Our coaching staff would have them watching from the bench behind Alshon Jeffrey.
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Yeah, you are probably right, it’s just so confusing why Gibbs wanted Jason Campbell. All of the 2005 mock drafts that I can find have Rodgers going early in the 1st round and Campbell isn’t mocked in the 1st round in any of them.
It was surprising that they traded up days in advance. They knew Campbell would be available at that pick.
Everyone knew Haskins was a project. And he probably landed in the worst situation possible. He had a coach who did not want him, thrown into the starting line up with an interim HC, and then got a brand new offense to learn in his second year. Granted, Haskins did not help himself with his antics.Haskins was an issue due to terrible team management. Im Ok with that pick if they had a plan but we did not. Knowing we needed a qb ASAP we should have gone another route or traded down.
basically it’s all Snyder’s fault
It is clear they never had a plan for developing Haskins.
Note: Lamar Jackson was a project when he was drafted. With a solid and stable coaching staff who wanted him, he had a much better chance to develop.
dgreen
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
agree. I think in the right situation Haskins could have potentially done well. but here was not the place. This is why a GM is needed and i am happy we finally plan to add one. Would have been nice if they were involved at that point. ah well.
Nevertheless...... I am happy with the young talent thats being groomed and that was my main goal for the season. Ive always said build the D and we will work out the QB. We should continue to do so.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Lol at the idea that Haskins failed because he wasn't developed properly. Please.
dgreen
Footballguy
Maybe part of it. I think there’s also been some reports that Alex Smith is “on track” to start.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Lost in all the Haskins news today is the real bummer from Rivera via WaPo: Terry is in a walking boot.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/28/terry-mclaurin-in-a-walking-boot/
Odds of him suiting up for Philly don't look good. Regardless if it's Smith or Heinecke, we're going to have a hard time winning without our WRs having a MUCH better showing than last week. Dropped balls all over the place. This receiving core is just terrible without Terry. We need some serious upgrades there in the offseason.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/28/terry-mclaurin-in-a-walking-boot/
Odds of him suiting up for Philly don't look good. Regardless if it's Smith or Heinecke, we're going to have a hard time winning without our WRs having a MUCH better showing than last week. Dropped balls all over the place. This receiving core is just terrible without Terry. We need some serious upgrades there in the offseason.
No one is saying that he failed because he wasn't developed properly. But through 1.9 seasons he was rejected by two separate regimes.
He was shunted aside by a coaching staff that wanted nothing to do with him in 2019. They were going to start Colt ####### McCoy based on interviews with Gruden. Rivera loved Haskins so much he immediately went out and signed Kyle Allen because at least that tool was willing to put in the effort.
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ffmail4me
Footballguy
You guys wanna cry this morning?
Washington's last five first-round QBs:
Dwayne Haskins - 16 games, 13 starts
Robert Griffin III - 37 games, 35 starts
Jason Campbell - 52 games, 52 starts
Patrick Ramsey - 33 games, 24 starts
Heath Shuler - 19 games, 13 starts
BRUTAL. ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL.
Washington's last five first-round QBs:
Dwayne Haskins - 16 games, 13 starts
Robert Griffin III - 37 games, 35 starts
Jason Campbell - 52 games, 52 starts
Patrick Ramsey - 33 games, 24 starts
Heath Shuler - 19 games, 13 starts
BRUTAL. ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Oh man, I have to agree. They don't get Terry back, I don't see us winning even if Smith comes back this week. I really hope we can get JuJu or Mike Williams or someone in FA along with an early draft pick at WR. Sorry but outside of Terry we don't have jack diddily squat!
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
We definitely need to address the WR position in the offseason. Depending on where we are drafting, that could be an option in the 1st round. Although, I also like the idea of LT there if there is a fit, and/or LB/S to finish out the defense.
As for the FA route, I would stay far away from JuJu. He has proven incapable of being a number #1 (in case of a Terry injury) and has looked like the 3rd best option in Pitt this season (and it's not really close). He's not going to be worth the money. The only WR out there I would spend up for would be Allen Robinson (but he's likely too expensive). Golliday is interesting but his "injury" season really took some luster off of him. I would also take a hard look at Will Fuller (maybe the PED suspension knocked his value down a bit). And I like you Mike Williams suggestion as a more budget friendly option (although like Fuller, he carries injury risk).
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Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
You know the best QB this team had in the last 20 years. In his one full season he was 10-6 with a playoff win.
It makes me so sad to say that.
It makes me so sad to say that.
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