Eastwood
Footballguy
That is true. But still, they have a loooong way to go.
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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2011 Season Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dgreen
- Start date
I'm a huge fan of Luck but this team has too many holes to trade up. I would be happy if they are in a position to get any of the top 3 QBs this draft. I think Matt Barkley and Landry Jones both have potential to develop into solid QBs
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I think we'll be in great position to draft Tannehill, although my ideal situation (outside of Luck) would be Griffin. But I think he'll go top-3 when its all said and done. I'd take both of those guys over Jones and Barkley.
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crispus attucks
Footballguy
a fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime. but his axing of vinny and giving control to shanny means that in the long run they could actually turn it around. I'd be shocked if he has the patience for a multi-year rebuild, however.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
I like Griffen alot, I thought he wasn't going to come out this year though. Once NFL starts I stop following alot of college players. I like Barkley and Jones if they are developed properly I think they can be pretty good. Although might not bee the best for the Skins since whoever they draft will probably start pretty quick.
Snyder has been out of things alot this year. I'm getting cautiously optomistic that he will just be around to sign checks.a fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime. but his axing of vinny and giving control to shanny means that in the long run they could actually turn it around. I'd be shocked if he has the patience for a multi-year rebuild, however.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
crispus attucks
Footballguy
buster's my brother. he got banned for offering up an alternative take in the Rothlisberger rape thread. he was a fool for navigating away from the skins thread!
I remember the ban. Was hoping he would come back after, or with a alias. I was on the other side of several debates with him but I've always enjoyed his insight and different perspective. He always created a lively discussion.
Sebowski
Footballguy
a fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
crispus attucks
Footballguy
roll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the resultsa fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shannyroll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the resultsa fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
Sebowski
Footballguy
I have a relic that prevents Tiger attacks. As long as I've had it I've never been attacked by a Tiger. The proof is in the results. Want to buy it? I'll give you a good deal.roll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the resultsa fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shannyroll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the resultsa fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
crispus attucks
Footballguy
I'd send Indy/Mia/StL our entire draft for Luck. Ditka style.Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shannyroll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the resultsa fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
I'm a big fan of Luck and obviously it's way too early to look at it too serisously, this team however has enough holes that the trading up would be a mistake.Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shannyroll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the resultsa fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
No doubt, and I know I'm in the minority with that opinion. And Shanahan's hands have been tied with draft picks, so I'm sure he's chomping at the bit to get a real slate of picks this go around.I'm a big fan of Luck and obviously it's way too early to look at it too serisously, this team however has enough holes that the trading up would be a mistake.Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shannyroll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the resultsa fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
crispus attucks
Footballguy
ugly scene on the sidelines with Fletcher yelling towards Landry. OJ and Hall had to intervene as Landry rose off the bench to respond. I know emotions are part of the game, but I wonder whether 30 is a guy to sign long term when a true pro like 59 calls him out saying "i know my assignments" - which I don't think he'd say in a one-off situation.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Ollie Ollie oxen free!!!! Still around, but just not posting. Been real busy and when not busy...gamin' like a champ. Also, finally opened a twitter acct and get constant 'skins info there, so I find my fill there and just don't come around.Today was sad one! I was so excited when this team had it's starters in place, granted sexy rexy was the QB, but we actually moved the ball and looked like we could contend. After the major impact of the injuries for our offense, I feared that it was going to be a looooooooooooooong season. Thanks Beck & Co. for proving that it was going to be just that...LONG! Yes, we have a lot of holes and this past draft was a good start. I love Kerrigan!!! What a beast and just think once he gets his NFL smarts, WATCH OUT! So far, Bowen and Cofield look like solid if not great additions to the team too. Paul and Helu are two good draft picks that we got later and will contribute, which I still think Hanktime will get there in due time too. Here's hoping STL has found the magic wand and keeps winning some more and then passes that magic onto MIA and IND.Hope all of you are doing well, outside of our B & G world. Granted we all have to endure and have yet joined the "glutton for punishment" club again! We'll get their boyz...just not as soon as we'd all like it to be.Biz
What a discouraging game. To this point, I was not automatically buying into the whole "wheels are falling off" argument, as I still thought they could fight their way to an 8-8 record and take that incremental step toward competitiveness this year, while eying a QB next year. However, after getting shut out by the Bills, it does appear that the wheels have either fallen off or are wobbling big time.
Can someone give me a productive way of looking at the remainder of the season? I would just like to see the team try to win a game. I watched a little of the Dolphins - Giants game yesterday and was impressed that the Dolphins really were trying to take that game and almost did. I wonder if we'll be as competitive in NY as the Dolphins were? I guess that's what I'd like to see from this team...not giving up and really making an effort. Yes, Beck is not Rodgers, but Matt Moore isn't Tom Brady either and they were in the game. LOL
Other than that...the rest of the year is basically to evaluate talent I guess. What do we have in Beck? Is he worth enough to keep as a backup? Honestly, I think we have now seen what we have in Beck. Yes, he belongs in the NFL. No, he won't take the Skins to the playoffs. They have to go QB next year. I get it that the Redskins have lots of needs, yadda yadda yadda, offensive line is more important than QB, yadda yadda yadda...I hear that. But the bottom line is we will never be squat without a decent QB. Period. End of story. Enough of cobbling together crap with McNabb, Grossman, Beck, et al. Draft a QB. Honestly, I have been against Snyder's trading draft picks. But next year, if you are sitting with one of the worst 5 slots and you can trade your #1 and next year's # 1 for Andrew Luck, you should do it. Luck is likely greater than the sum of this year's and next year's number 1 pick...that's how important a franchise QB is. Don't outthink yourself and get cute and pass again on QB...it's a QB league driven by elite QBs. Do it, even if all of the internet geniouses make jokes about Snyder / Cerrato. Sorry for the rant, but even though we have tons of needs, they are all trumped by the QB need.
OK, I better get to work. What a depressing turn to the season.
Can someone give me a productive way of looking at the remainder of the season? I would just like to see the team try to win a game. I watched a little of the Dolphins - Giants game yesterday and was impressed that the Dolphins really were trying to take that game and almost did. I wonder if we'll be as competitive in NY as the Dolphins were? I guess that's what I'd like to see from this team...not giving up and really making an effort. Yes, Beck is not Rodgers, but Matt Moore isn't Tom Brady either and they were in the game. LOL
Other than that...the rest of the year is basically to evaluate talent I guess. What do we have in Beck? Is he worth enough to keep as a backup? Honestly, I think we have now seen what we have in Beck. Yes, he belongs in the NFL. No, he won't take the Skins to the playoffs. They have to go QB next year. I get it that the Redskins have lots of needs, yadda yadda yadda, offensive line is more important than QB, yadda yadda yadda...I hear that. But the bottom line is we will never be squat without a decent QB. Period. End of story. Enough of cobbling together crap with McNabb, Grossman, Beck, et al. Draft a QB. Honestly, I have been against Snyder's trading draft picks. But next year, if you are sitting with one of the worst 5 slots and you can trade your #1 and next year's # 1 for Andrew Luck, you should do it. Luck is likely greater than the sum of this year's and next year's number 1 pick...that's how important a franchise QB is. Don't outthink yourself and get cute and pass again on QB...it's a QB league driven by elite QBs. Do it, even if all of the internet geniouses make jokes about Snyder / Cerrato. Sorry for the rant, but even though we have tons of needs, they are all trumped by the QB need.
OK, I better get to work. What a depressing turn to the season.
If you asked me last year or the year before, I would said the Skins should not trade any more picks for elite players, because this is what has sunk the franchise for years. However, I think with Andrew Luck, you may be "outthinking yourself" a little bit. You have to ask yourself, what is the value of someone like Peyton Manning. If you think he is that valuable, then this year's # 1 and next year's # 1 is worth it. You are not necessarily better with "more" players than a truly transformative QB in a league where there is almost a one to one relationship between elite teams and elite QBs.If the Skins have a chance to trade extra picks for Luck, they should do it. It's really easy to bring out the same old argument that the Redskins shouldn't trade picks because that's what we've done for years and it's hurt us, BUT, the difference is, you are not trading picks for Adam Archeletta here, but Andrew Luck. Being too inflexible with future moves just cuz you screwed them up in the past is just as bad and maybe worse than repeating the same mistakes from the past.'thayman said:I'm a big fan of Luck and obviously it's way too early to look at it too serisously, this team however has enough holes that the trading up would be a mistake.'Apple Jack said:Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.'thayman said:I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shanny'crispus attucks said:roll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the results'Sebowski said:'crispus attucks said:a fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.'Eastwood said:Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Yesterday was ugly. I still think things are better run considering how bad we were coached the previous 6 years. The talent pool was awful 2 years ago, and it's slightly better and younger now. It'll take 4 years to recover from Cerrato. BUT....
I can't stand Kyle Shanahan. Every team in this league has weaknesses. His play calling doesn't seem to take into account the lack of talent at OL and WR. After the first two plays of the game, there were almost no calls that softened up the pass rush. Where is the blocking help for the OL? He has done nothing creative to overcome his team's shortfallings. And therein lies the problem. You have to adjust your offense to your talent, or lack thereof. It's the same mistake he made with McNabb. Learn my offense, or get out. It should have been, "what system fits my talent pool and Donovan's skills?". So, "what system fits this team?". I have no idea, but it certainly isn't running on the left side, it certainly isn't out routes, it certainly isn't deep passes. To me it seems the 5-10 crossing routes and taking a few yards at a time in the passing game works better. It seems you should be getting your RBs into space with swing passes. All of these keep your QB from getting killed, help out the OL, and help the WRs get open faster. He seems to not realize that he doesn't have Schaub's arm and Andre Johnson running routes. His best assets are Davis over the middle and swing passes to Helu.
If he was not Mike's son, he would have been fired by now. End of story.
I can't stand Kyle Shanahan. Every team in this league has weaknesses. His play calling doesn't seem to take into account the lack of talent at OL and WR. After the first two plays of the game, there were almost no calls that softened up the pass rush. Where is the blocking help for the OL? He has done nothing creative to overcome his team's shortfallings. And therein lies the problem. You have to adjust your offense to your talent, or lack thereof. It's the same mistake he made with McNabb. Learn my offense, or get out. It should have been, "what system fits my talent pool and Donovan's skills?". So, "what system fits this team?". I have no idea, but it certainly isn't running on the left side, it certainly isn't out routes, it certainly isn't deep passes. To me it seems the 5-10 crossing routes and taking a few yards at a time in the passing game works better. It seems you should be getting your RBs into space with swing passes. All of these keep your QB from getting killed, help out the OL, and help the WRs get open faster. He seems to not realize that he doesn't have Schaub's arm and Andre Johnson running routes. His best assets are Davis over the middle and swing passes to Helu.
If he was not Mike's son, he would have been fired by now. End of story.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
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fatness
Footballguy
Did you miss the 2011 draft? He made a lot of picks this year and they've been discussed a lot in this thread and the offseason thread. The "fish rots from the head down" stuff is misguided if it's aimed at Snyder, and doing so just gives Shanahan, Shanahan, and Haslett a pass they don't deserve.'Apple Jack said:
This is the second straight year the team has gone into free-fall after its bye, and that falls directly on the coaching staff. They were outcoached yesterday by Chan ####### Gailey, who has never been confused with a good head coach. They made no halftime adjustments yesterday; the players said so after the game. This magical "System" that is supposed to be the guiding force leading the Redskins out of the stink has become apparent: "Have John Elway", or, in Kyle's case, "Have Matt Schaub".
The Redskins at present are not competitive and are in freefall. Look at how Arizona almost won yesterday, Miami almost won yesterday, the Rams actually did win yesterday, all against good teams. Arizona, Miami, and the Rams stink, but they play more competitively than the Redskins do.
Jason ReidI can hardly wait for the "that just shows why Jason Reid isn't a beat reporter" criticism to start again, as though Reid is responsible for what happens on the football field.
Our coaching staff is completely overmatched.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Jesus, settle down folks.
Yesterday was a totally embarrassing display, but we're 3-4, and we knew this wasn't a very talented team before the season started. I believe a few people in the organization are on record as saying this rebuilding effort was going to take years, not weeks. Anyone who talks about firing the coach is part of the problem.
Yesterday was a totally embarrassing display, but we're 3-4, and we knew this wasn't a very talented team before the season started. I believe a few people in the organization are on record as saying this rebuilding effort was going to take years, not weeks. Anyone who talks about firing the coach is part of the problem.
fatness
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
The head coach, the defensive coordinator, and the offensive coordinator are doing a bad job. It's fair to talk about that and kind of dumb not to.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Now I know why I rarely post here anymore...too many glass half empty folks running their toxic words. A few of you need to check yourselves, there is nothing this franchise can do that you would happy about. Its so easy to point out the negative and bash, but it gets old as you are never happy. Yesterday's game was sad and this team has much to fix, but the FA's we signed and draft picks are all positives. A decade of mis-management can't be erased in 2 yrs.
If you are to angry amd down....dont watch! Yes, I was down the entire time I watched the Bills game, but I also realized our season was foing to be a long one after all the significant injuries we had to an already not so deep talented team.
If all you got is venom, shut up and keep it to yourself as its not contructive and it provides absolutely nothing to the thread or,the other fans here. Go cry on tour momma's shoulder if that helps!
Sheeesh!
If you are to angry amd down....dont watch! Yes, I was down the entire time I watched the Bills game, but I also realized our season was foing to be a long one after all the significant injuries we had to an already not so deep talented team.
If all you got is venom, shut up and keep it to yourself as its not contructive and it provides absolutely nothing to the thread or,the other fans here. Go cry on tour momma's shoulder if that helps!
Sheeesh!3-4 is a legit record for the Redskins in a rebuilding year, but it's not just about what our W-L total are. Even if you are rebuilding, you can at least look like you are making progress and not backsliding horribly. I think folks are upset because the team doesn't even look mildly competitive right now. In that regards, I think folks could "settle down" if they saw the team making some progress, but in absence of that, why honestly should the fans be satisfied with what they see?In terms of firing coaches, I agree with you there. I don't want to see Shanahan get fired and start all over again...that's been our problem for years. But, I agree with the comment that as long as the coaches son is one of the coordinators, and if that makes him untouchable, then this coaching staff is limited in the options regarding how they can fix their problems. And you simply have to acknowledge that.
Dude, fans have a right to be unhappy with what they see on the field. Telling them "not to watch" if they don't like it is not necessary in my opinion. After all, one could just as easily say, "if you don't like what posters are saying, don't read the comments and stay off the computer." It's cool if you want to say folks are over-reacting but I don't see the point in taunting people who are legit fans of the team and upset. I mean, it really is ok to be upset if your team is stinking it up. Passionate fans often react that way.Now I know why I rarely post here anymore...too many glass half empty folks running their toxic words. A few of you need to check yourselves, there is nothing this franchise can do that you would happy about. Its so easy to point out the negative and bash, but it gets old as you are never happy. Yesterday's game was sad and this team has much to fix, but the FA's we signed and draft picks are all positives. A decade of mis-management can't be erased in 2 yrs.If you are to angry amd down....dont watch! Yes, I was down the entire time I watched the Bills game, but I also realized our season was foing to be a long one after all the significant injuries we had to an already not so deep talented team.If all you got is venom, shut up and keep it to yourself as its not contructive and it provides absolutely nothing to the thread or,the other fans here. Go cry on tour momma's shoulder if that helps!
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Right mike, but when venting becomes there is never anything the team can do that's right...then that's toxic. Hey, everyone needs to be able to get stuff off their chest, but the non-stop complaining and negativity is ridiculous. Again, easy to point out what's wrong, but hard to,look at positive. Yes, as fans of this team we've been through a lot in the last 2 decades, but some here have demoatrated over & over that there nothing the team or front office can do that they will be satisfied with...
Taunting? Maybe, but some cry & whine enough...what's the point. Beware, you become the environment that you in!
Taunting? Maybe, but some cry & whine enough...what's the point. Beware, you become the environment that you in!
I think you are greatly underestimating what it would take to trade up for Luck. I heard on the radio, if the Redskins had the 2nd pick in the draft, may a 1,2, and 3 this year, and a 1 and 3 next year. That seemed a little steep.If you asked me last year or the year before, I would said the Skins should not trade any more picks for elite players, because this is what has sunk the franchise for years. However, I think with Andrew Luck, you may be "outthinking yourself" a little bit. You have to ask yourself, what is the value of someone like Peyton Manning. If you think he is that valuable, then this year's # 1 and next year's # 1 is worth it. You are not necessarily better with "more" players than a truly transformative QB in a league where there is almost a one to one relationship between elite teams and elite QBs.If the Skins have a chance to trade extra picks for Luck, they should do it. It's really easy to bring out the same old argument that the Redskins shouldn't trade picks because that's what we've done for years and it's hurt us, BUT, the difference is, you are not trading picks for Adam Archeletta here, but Andrew Luck. Being too inflexible with future moves just cuz you screwed them up in the past is just as bad and maybe worse than repeating the same mistakes from the past.'thayman said:I'm a big fan of Luck and obviously it's way too early to look at it too serisously, this team however has enough holes that the trading up would be a mistake.'Apple Jack said:Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.'thayman said:I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shanny'crispus attucks said:roll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the results'Sebowski said:'crispus attucks said:a fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.'Eastwood said:Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
valhallan
Footballguy
There's no excuse for having your QB do straight dropbacks over and over with these slow-developing bunch formations when your line is a sieve and the receivers have no ability to get open. I'm positive a coach like Belichick would look at this group and draw up some screens and draws - anything to get the ball moving quick and slow down the pass rush. As it was yesterday, the Bills never had a reason to stray from blanket coverage downfield. Didn't the Panthers say they could call out the Skins' plays at the line? Not shocking at all after yesterday.I looked up some trades for a point of reference. Note that these qbs weren't as "can't miss" as Luck. Also, the top pick is considered to be worth more since teams don't have to pay them nearly as much.Ryan Leaf (1998 2nd overall)From San Diego: 1998 1 (#3 overall), 1998 2 (#33), 1999 1 (#8), Eric Metcalf, Patrick SappMichael Vick 2001 1 (#1)From Atlanta: 2001 1 (#5 - LaDanian Thomlison), 2001 3 (#67), 2002 2 (#48), Tim DwightEli Manning 2004 (#1)From New York: Phillip Rivers (2004 1, #5 overall), 2004 3 (#65 Nick Kneading), 2005 1 (#12 Shawne Merriman), 2005 5.I think you are greatly underestimating what it would take to trade up for Luck. I heard on the radio, if the Redskins had the 2nd pick in the draft, may a 1,2, and 3 this year, and a 1 and 3 next year. That seemed a little steep.If you asked me last year or the year before, I would said the Skins should not trade any more picks for elite players, because this is what has sunk the franchise for years. However, I think with Andrew Luck, you may be "outthinking yourself" a little bit. You have to ask yourself, what is the value of someone like Peyton Manning. If you think he is that valuable, then this year's # 1 and next year's # 1 is worth it. You are not necessarily better with "more" players than a truly transformative QB in a league where there is almost a one to one relationship between elite teams and elite QBs.If the Skins have a chance to trade extra picks for Luck, they should do it. It's really easy to bring out the same old argument that the Redskins shouldn't trade picks because that's what we've done for years and it's hurt us, BUT, the difference is, you are not trading picks for Adam Archeletta here, but Andrew Luck. Being too inflexible with future moves just cuz you screwed them up in the past is just as bad and maybe worse than repeating the same mistakes from the past.'thayman said:I'm a big fan of Luck and obviously it's way too early to look at it too serisously, this team however has enough holes that the trading up would be a mistake.'Apple Jack said:Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.'thayman said:I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shanny'crispus attucks said:roll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the results'Sebowski said:'crispus attucks said:a fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.'Eastwood said:Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
I guess it all really depends upon the value of the QB that you COULD get with your lower pick. If you think you could get Barkley or Jones or someone and that they could get the job done, then sure, that's an option. I just don't think going into this draft and ignoring QB again and just rolling with whoever we can grab (I dunno, maybe Kellen Clemons) is a good idea, even if you draft 5 new Offensive Lineman the QB play is going to give you a major ceiling.In the end, the price *may* be too steep. But it may *not* be too steep as well. What I am generally opposed to is a general sense among Redskins fans that since we made mistakes trading draft picks in the past, then we should not do it under any circumstance this year. I'm saying I woudl entertain the notion of trading for Luck. Of course, if the price was too high, you can't take it. But, I would not dismiss it out of hand. To me, it's just a mathematical equation. If the value you get from Luck outweighs the value of all the players you could get with the other draft picks, then take Luck. if he doesn't, then don't. You also have to weigh what your options are for filling in the holes -- if you don't have Luck, are there other suitable QBs options out there; by the same token, if you pass on an Offensive Lineman, are there other options for that? Just don't dismiss the possibility out of hand. Even for a player of lesser caliber than Luck -- Cam Newton -- you see how his single presence has the potential to turn around the whole franchise and possibly carry it for years...I looked up some trades for a point of reference. Note that these qbs weren't as "can't miss" as Luck. Also, the top pick is considered to be worth more since teams don't have to pay them nearly as much.Ryan Leaf (1998 2nd overall)From San Diego: 1998 1 (#3 overall), 1998 2 (#33), 1999 1 (#8), Eric Metcalf, Patrick SappMichael Vick 2001 1 (#1)From Atlanta: 2001 1 (#5 - LaDanian Thomlison), 2001 3 (#67), 2002 2 (#48), Tim DwightEli Manning 2004 (#1)From New York: Phillip Rivers (2004 1, #5 overall), 2004 3 (#65 Nick Kneading), 2005 1 (#12 Shawne Merriman), 2005 5.I think you are greatly underestimating what it would take to trade up for Luck. I heard on the radio, if the Redskins had the 2nd pick in the draft, may a 1,2, and 3 this year, and a 1 and 3 next year. That seemed a little steep.If you asked me last year or the year before, I would said the Skins should not trade any more picks for elite players, because this is what has sunk the franchise for years. However, I think with Andrew Luck, you may be "outthinking yourself" a little bit. You have to ask yourself, what is the value of someone like Peyton Manning. If you think he is that valuable, then this year's # 1 and next year's # 1 is worth it. You are not necessarily better with "more" players than a truly transformative QB in a league where there is almost a one to one relationship between elite teams and elite QBs.If the Skins have a chance to trade extra picks for Luck, they should do it. It's really easy to bring out the same old argument that the Redskins shouldn't trade picks because that's what we've done for years and it's hurt us, BUT, the difference is, you are not trading picks for Adam Archeletta here, but Andrew Luck. Being too inflexible with future moves just cuz you screwed them up in the past is just as bad and maybe worse than repeating the same mistakes from the past.'thayman said:I'm a big fan of Luck and obviously it's way too early to look at it too serisously, this team however has enough holes that the trading up would be a mistake.'Apple Jack said:Exactly. That observation has been appropriate for most of Shanahan's custodianship, but luckily, the Skins fans pretty much told him to get the f out of the way a couple years ago and he has obliged, as far as I can tell. This is Shanahan era growing pains. That said, they might not need to trade up for Luck at this rate. And I'd LOVE to see them do it. Enough with this revolving door of mediocre to terrible QBs in a QB-dominating league. This guy is the closest thing to a lock at QB as you're going to get and this team has rarely been this desperate for a competent QB and for something resembling a future. Go. Get. Him.'thayman said:I think you are right, but by all reports Snyder has stayed out of the Football decisions since hiring Allen and Shanny'crispus attucks said:roll your eyes all you want but the proof is in the results'Sebowski said:'crispus attucks said:a fish rots from the head down. what we are witnessing now is the result of the dan snyder ownership regime.'Eastwood said:Facts our, the line sucks, the WRs suck, the RBs suck, the QB sucks, and the D sucks. I think that pretty much covers it.
I hear you. Complaining while never being happy is no good, for sure. I don't have sympathy for those guys...only for all the folks who were saying we were improved on D, RB, etc. and were encouraged only to be let down with the backslide.But, I see what you are saying. You don't want to get to the point where complaining is so comfortable that's all you do...
That makes pefect sense to me.The front office role is to maximize the talent on the roster within the constraints of the salary cap. And you need to maximize in for both the present and future.
So when the Redskins traded for Brandon Lloyd, they gave up two mid round draft picks that may or may not have been decent players. They also signed him to a big contract and later had to eat a lot of it. That prevented them from signing one nice free agent or two decent free agents. So Lloyd ended up costing about 4 players. That is just terrible.
I am not against trading up. But it has to be for the right guy at the right price.
Also, if you look at the free agent signings and drafts the past two years under Shanahan, you have to be impressed. They really have built up the talent base of the team.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
No, cool guy, I didn't. I was referring to the totality of his drafting since he got there, which includes 2010. Perhaps hands have been tied is the wrong language, but not having two of your first six picks your first draft year with one of the worst rosters in the league, I think qualifies. Regardless, easy on the coffee, Montel.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I'm not sure we can accurately make that assessment. Grossman had a much, much better OL situation. And I don't see how Shanahan had any other choice but to give Beck a run. The fan frenzy and media circus that would have followed another Grossman start would have been horrendous.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I think those complaining about progress (or lack thereof) and backsliding are forgetting or ignoring the impact of the injuries this team has suffered the past few weeks. IMO, they've been monumental, but few people seem to want to acknowledge that.Marvelous is right, that the Shanahan/Allen era has significantly improved the talent base of this team. But that's really not saying much given where they were. The injuries to key players have been just way too much for a team with this little talent/depth to keep up with. Maybe when Williams comes back, and the new guys on OL have a few games to gel, they can get some consistency back in the offense, but I'm not holding my breath.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
It's fair to say they did a bad job on Sunday, yes, although I'd argue that the defense performed about as well as you'd expect on the road against one of the NFL's better offensive teams.It's not fair to say that a team that the coaches of a team that many projected to be 4-12 and nobody projected to be better than 6-10 that is currently 3-4 is doing a bad job. It just isn't. You can talk about what they can do better, sure. But you can't say they're doing a bad job just because our expectations were raised unreasonably by the 3-1 start. If a team of beauty consultants turns Rosie O'Donnell into a 3 or a 4, you can't whine about the horrible performance of the beauty consultants.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Elway was the Broncos' QB for less than a third of Shanahan's time in Denver, and his skills were waning during that period. Shanahan subsequently took them to the playoffs with Brian Griese and with Jake Plummer at QB.Schaub put up better numbers in Kyle Shanahan's offense than before ... or since.When you make obviously incorrect statements like these you sound like the sort of angry lunatic that calls in to radio shows demanding that heads roll after every loss instead of the knowledgeable Redskins fan you are most of the time.
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dgreen
Footballguy
Of course, my assessment from my couch is simply based on what I've seen and from history. Yes, Beck has had to deal with much worse protection. But, even when he's had time, he doesn't produce very much. Other than his mobility, I've seen nothing in him that makes me believe he's better than Grossman. The main hope for Beck was that he'd protect the ball better. I haven't really seen that. IIRC, Beck's turnovers have not been a result of pressure. He's flat out dropped the ball twice (recovered them both, I believe) and his INTs are just the result of bad passes. I could be wrong because I'm just trying to go off of memory.The biggest thing to me is that Beck has never been viewed as a starter in the NFL. He's in his 5th year the league and nobody has found him to be good enough, or promising enough, to give him a shot until now. Grossman, for all his faults, at least has been viewed by a few as one of the 32 best QBs in the league. Again, not meant to be high praise for Grossman. I've been saying for a while that they both are bad. These are guys who need perfect surroundings to succeed. When Grossman was benched, one of the main arguments was: Beck just can't be worse. Well, my only point, really, is that Beck actually can be worse.
dgreen
Footballguy
I remember when I heard DCThunder call into Andy and Steve about firing Joe Bugel. I think they hung up on him in about 5 seconds.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Apparently, only by those who confuse him with a bad head coach.He wasn't given a fair shot in Dallas and was fired after taking the team to the playoffs in both his years as head coach there. Jerry Jones has admitted, repeatedly, that firing Gailey was a mistake. Now he appears to be turning around a Buffalo Bills team that had managed to be a worse team than the Redskins since 2000.
He's had 3 full seasons as an NFL head coach, only one of which (last year, his first with Buffalo) was a losing season. He seems to be well on his way to another winning season this year. I'm not sure what the bias is against him, but his head coaching record is a very poor argument for labeling him as someone who shouldn't be confused with a good head coach.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I guess I'm of the opinion that, any given Sunday, each of these guys could be worse than the other, and they could be better. But when they are both "bad" (which I agree with) you basically end up playing Russian roulette to find the lesser of two evils.I don't think Beck's 6 career NFL starts (and only 2 with the 'Skins with virtually nothing around him) has sufficiently convinced me he's considerably worse than Grossman at pulling a win out of a hat.
