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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

I also couldn't remember which Cure song that was on the player piano. inbetween days? push? a night like this? ... from one of their mid 80s albums.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Wyatt is Ford re-creating Arnold as some experiment?  

It is like in Lost where black and white sit back and watch the choices. Ford said how all the guests chose black hat against what he thought the world would be like. So now we have Delores and MIB seeking to complete the maze. William will make the choice between black hat and white. 
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the maze worries me as being a bit too contrived matrix #2 & 3. given what's happened so far, I still have a lot of faith in the writers to not mess it up... but I just started to feel- concerned- for the first time this episode.

 
El Floppo said:
the maze worries me as being a bit too contrived matrix #2 & 3. given what's happened so far, I still have a lot of faith in the writers to not mess it up... but I just started to feel- concerned- for the first time this episode.
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You're right the name I was searching for was Arnold. 

Im hoping the maze is less like a leaving the matrix type thing and more of a legacy/stash of secrets from Arnold.  The only issue with the latter is Bernard knows of it, but I guess we still don't know too terribly much about Bernard in the grand scheme of things. 

 
bigmarc27 said:
You're right the name I was searching for was Arnold. 

Im hoping the maze is less like a leaving the matrix type thing and more of a legacy/stash of secrets from Arnold.  The only issue with the latter is Bernard knows of it, but I guess we still don't know too terribly much about Bernard in the grand scheme of things. 
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if you buy into bernard being a bot (likely built by arnold), it would make sense for him to know about it.

 
El Floppo said:
if you buy into bernard being a bot (likely built by arnold), it would make sense for him to know about it.
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Or if the Jeffrey Wright scenes are "Arnold" and not Bernard and the debriefings are from the earlier timelines. 

I admit that the last two weeks have made it more difficult to reconcile that theory (but not, IMO, impossible).  But I can't reconcile the Bernard/Delores "debriefing" scene into a single timeline.  She was with William et al the entire episode.  When did Bernard have time to pull her in to be debriefed?

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Or if the Jeffrey Wright scenes are "Arnold" and not Bernard and the debriefings are from the earlier timelines. 

I admit that the last two weeks have made it more difficult to reconcile that theory (but not, IMO, impossible).  But I can't reconcile the Bernard/Delores "debriefing" scene into a single timeline.  She was with William et al the entire episode.  When did Bernard have time to pull her in to be debriefed?
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I raised the same question to the wife last night. could've been while she was en route to william... but pulling her while everybody slept around the campfire? unless they have a batman style sleep spray for the guests, not likely.

 
El Floppo said:
I raised the same question to the wife last night. could've been while she was en route to william... but pulling her while everybody slept around the campfire? unless they have a batman style sleep spray for the guests, not likely.
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I definitely don't think the interrogations are in real time. I actually just assumed they were all done over a period of time when they were fixing her and are just spliced into the narrative to give context and backstory.

 
Glad they had so much advancement of the other stories, as I am starting to find the Dolores evolving story to be tedious and not very interesting. Maeve's is much better in that regard.

 
GregR said:
Glad they had so much advancement of the other stories, as I am starting to find the Dolores evolving story to be tedious and not very interesting. Maeve's is much better in that regard.
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I think the distinction is that Delores seems to have a guide - via Bernard - in her evolution, while Maeve has been thrown in the deep end, with no-one to really "help" her understand.  Maeve is certainly more chaos - in terms of how she is evolving. 

If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that life will not be contained. Life breaks free, it expands to new territories and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, uh... well, there it is. 

- Dr. Ian Malcolm 

 
-Watched this before Walking Dead.  That is as much a testament to this show as it is a testament against the other.

-I still see N and N-30 timelines. :shrug:

 
(HULK) said:
-Watched this before Walking Dead.  That is as much a testament to this show as it is a testament against the other.

-I still see N and N-30 timelines. :shrug:
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The one thing that gives me pause is when Delores is with William - they get a report of Delores deviating from her loop, they cut back to the control room, and I thought the head of security was there - then they seemed to send the sheriff to escort her back to the house, until William intervened - thus Delores was allowed to stay on the request of a guest...

Its possible the head of security is a bot - hence no aging, or there was some fancy editing - but this appeared to be modern-day Delores, even more than the scene of her fleeing the house, and then later ending up in William's camp.

I'm still willing to accept multiple time-lines as a possibility, but that window seems to be narrowing.

 
Sinn Fein said:
The one thing that gives me pause is when Delores is with William - they get a report of Delores deviating from her loop, they cut back to the control room, and I thought the head of security was there - then they seemed to send the sheriff to escort her back to the house, until William intervened - thus Delores was allowed to stay on the request of a guest...

Its possible the head of security is a bot - hence no aging, or there was some fancy editing - but this appeared to be modern-day Delores, even more than the scene of her fleeing the house, and then later ending up in William's camp.

I'm still willing to accept multiple time-lines as a possibility, but that window seems to be narrowing.
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fwiw- I think head of security and bernard are both bots.

I'm having a harder time holding onto thinking that there's a n-30, unless the writers and editors are really ####### with the narrative timeline- jumping scene to scene and even within scenes.

 
Sinn Fein said:
The one thing that gives me pause is when Delores is with William - they get a report of Delores deviating from her loop, they cut back to the control room, and I thought the head of security was there - then they seemed to send the sheriff to escort her back to the house, until William intervened - thus Delores was allowed to stay on the request of a guest...

Its possible the head of security is a bot - hence no aging, or there was some fancy editing - but this appeared to be modern-day Delores, even more than the scene of her fleeing the house, and then later ending up in William's camp.

I'm still willing to accept multiple time-lines as a possibility, but that window seems to be narrowing.
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This is what I meant by this episode making that theory harder to reconcile.  The one thing that still gives me pause is that Zeppo (which is how I'm going to refer to "the other Hemsworth" until I remember his character's name) asks if Delores is with a guest and the technician answers that they can't tell because of all the changes Ford is making.  I get that one way to read that is to setup how William can just call off the host trying to take her in by saying she's with him, but it can also be a way of foreshadowing that when they were talking she might not have been with William.

It almost feels as if the show anticipated that the multiple timelines theory would be out there as there are scenes that feel almost designed to refute it without actually quite doing so.  We'll see.  I think the title of one of the upcoming episodes supports the theory as well, but it could also refer to something else.

 
People who I think are real:

  1. Ford
  2. William
  3. Logan
  4. Man in Black
  5. Programmer Woman - seems far more independent in her thinking than Bernard
  6. Theresa - Operations Manager
 
El Floppo said:
tbh... I'm not even convinced about her.
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It makes no sense for him to basically threaten her if she is, unless he can't control all of them.

My shot in the dark is that the maze isn't really a maze but the final part of his partners pyramid. He didn't die, he convinced Hopkins that they could make humanity better by making them all bots and the guests are slowly being replaced by more advanced bots by the partner somewhere in the park and MIB is going to stumble on to that.

 
Here is more evidence in the "supports the N-30" timeline category from last night.

Logan and William discuss the family business.  Logan mentions that the business owns a piece of the park.

Ford and Theresa discuss the corporate ownership of the park.  Ford mentions that the money men had no idea what they were getting into when they invested.   He also mentions that the board has already sent someone to the park.  I don't know how everyone feels about the clips from next week, but I'll move it to spoiler tags:

Ford and the MiB appear to have a conversation next week.  Seeing as how we also learn that the MiB is a famous rich person who runs a large foundation in "real life", it seems possible  that the MiB is the Delos representative that has been sent.  And that the the N-30 timeline is from before the Delos Corporation acquired a managing interest in the park.
 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Here is more evidence in the "supports the N-30" timeline category from last night.

Logan and William discuss the family business.  Logan mentions that the business owns a piece of the park.

Ford and Theresa discuss the corporate ownership of the park.  Ford mentions that the money men had no idea what they were getting into when they invested.   He also mentions that the board has already sent someone to the park.  I don't know how everyone feels about the clips from next week, but I'll move it to spoiler tags:

Ford and the MiB appear to have a conversation next week.  Seeing as how we also learn that the MiB is a famous rich person who runs a large foundation in "real life", it seems possible  that the MiB is the Delos representative that has been sent.  And that the the N-30 timeline is from before the Delos Corporation acquired a managing interest in the park.
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:thumbup:

My Link

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
This is what I meant by this episode making that theory harder to reconcile.  The one thing that still gives me pause is that Zeppo (which is how I'm going to refer to "the other Hemsworth" until I remember his character's name) asks if Delores is with a guest and the technician answers that they can't tell because of all the changes Ford is making.  I get that one way to read that is to setup how William can just call off the host trying to take her in by saying she's with him, but it can also be a way of foreshadowing that when they were talking she might not have been with William.

It almost feels as if the show anticipated that the multiple timelines theory would be out there as there are scenes that feel almost designed to refute it without actually quite doing so.  We'll see.  I think the title of one of the upcoming episodes supports the theory as well, but it could also refer to something else.
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This is how I'm guessing it is going down.  Late night meetings with Delores and Bernard (telling her about the maze) are N timeline.  Her encounter with that girl (who's dad w/ MiB) is N timeline.  Security was N timeline.  Scenes with McPoyle were N-30 timeline.  He had her off her loop then, doesn't mean characters don't go off their loop with some regularity... the security team didn't seem shocked about it.  They even have a mechanism in place to round a bot up and get them back on loop, so it must happen often enough to have that already in place.

They definitely showed two different times Delores was in that town with the little girl there/not there thing.

I stand pat on 2 timelines.

 
(HULK) said:
This is how I'm guessing it is going down.  Late night meetings with Delores and Bernard (telling her about the maze) are N timeline.  Her encounter with that girl (who's dad w/ MiB) is N timeline.  Security was N timeline.  Scenes with McPoyle were N-30 timeline.  He had her off her loop then, doesn't mean characters don't go off their loop with some regularity... the security team didn't seem shocked about it.  They even have a mechanism in place to round a bot up and get them back on loop, so it must happen often enough to have that already in place.

They definitely showed two different times Delores was in that town with the little girl there/not there thing.

I stand pat on 2 timelines.
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pretty easy to read the girl there/not there type of thing as memories, not a separate stand-alone timeline. 

 
When we see things change in the moment (like girl there and not there; dolores shot and not shot etc) my interpretation is that she has reached this poiny before and dies or gets taken back home into her loop. The loop happens over and over until something changes that progresses her closer to the maze.  Like that Tom cruise movie. 

William being introduced is that catalyst now. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
When we see things change in the moment (like girl there and not there; dolores shot and not shot etc) my interpretation is that she has reached this poiny before and dies or gets taken back home into her loop. The loop happens over and over until something changes that progresses her closer to the maze.  Like that Tom cruise movie. 

William being introduced is that catalyst now. 
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huh... could be.

like I mentioned, I see that as her- in current time-line- having flashbacks and memories that affect her ability to break free from her story-loops... in the current time-line. IMO, william is more of a white-hat embodiment of teddy, but real, than anything else

 
So it seems like MIB knows that the maze is a way for the hosts to become "free", and he's taking the prisoner guy with him so that he can go through the maze. When he said that he was gonna kill MIB, MIB replied "maybe one day you will".

I think maybe MIB wants to die in the park the same way Arnold did, maybe to get to this "deeper" part of the game or achieve the god-like status Ford possesses. So if he wants to die in the park he needs a host who has been set free to kill him.

This show is so freakin' good.

 
For better or worse, Westworld is entirely serialized.  Each episode doesn't have its own self-contained story conflict that is resolved.  That is increasingly common in television in 2016, so it's weird to remember that shows like LOST always had some type of episode-plot in addition to the larger arc stuff.  Cable and Netflix shows get away with this somewhat because they have 8 or 10 episodes in a season compared to 22.  But I do think that maybe a Western Quest of the Week episode that was light on mythology might be a nice palate cleanser in the middle of the season.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I thought the prison break was a fun little set piece.  I also thought the show was a little less grim.  It's never going to be super funny or anything, but it there was at least a little bit of wit. 
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Andy Greenwald from the Ringer the same criticism (lack of levity) last week and I totally agree. There needs to be a Tyrion type character providing some comic relief or the show will start to drag. 

 
thecatch said:
Andy Greenwald from the Ringer the same criticism (lack of levity) last week and I totally agree. There needs to be a Tyrion type character providing some comic relief or the show will start to drag. 
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You'd think it could be pretty easy.  Most westerns had a comic relief character (so old drunk prospector or something).  Just make a host character like that.  Maybe make him necessary for the MiB to complete his quest as a sly dig on video games that have super annoying characters you can't avoid. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
For better or worse, Westworld is entirely serialized.  Each episode doesn't have its own self-contained story conflict that is resolved.  That is increasingly common in television in 2016, so it's weird to remember that shows like LOST always had some type of episode-plot in addition to the larger arc stuff.  Cable and Netflix shows get away with this somewhat because they have 8 or 10 episodes in a season compared to 22.  But I do think that maybe a Western Quest of the Week episode that was light on mythology might be a nice palate cleanser in the middle of the season.
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While I lost interest after the first couple of seasons, this is what I really enjoyed about my guilty prime time pleasure Person of Interest.  There was a wide ranging overal arc, but you could also just enjoy a short story with resolution as well.  In fact, it may have been because they got so wrapped up into the longer term narrative that I lost interest.

That said, for something of the caliber that is Westworld, I don't really mind the reality that nothing much gets resolved... but I do hope we get some closer and resolutions after the first season is over, albeit opening up as many or more questions moving forward. 

 
Koya said:
While I lost interest after the first couple of seasons, this is what I really enjoyed about my guilty prime time pleasure Person of Interest.  There was a wide ranging overal arc, but you could also just enjoy a short story with resolution as well.  In fact, it may have been because they got so wrapped up into the longer term narrative that I lost interest.

That said, for something of the caliber that is Westworld, I don't really mind the reality that nothing much gets resolved... but I do hope we get some closer and resolutions after the first season is over, albeit opening up as many or more questions moving forward. 
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As you may already know, Westworld shares its co-showrunner with Person of Interest.  . 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
You'd think it could be pretty easy.  Most westerns had a comic relief character (so old drunk prospector or something).  Just make a host character like that.  Maybe make him necessary for the MiB to complete his quest as a sly dig on video games that have super annoying characters you can't avoid. 
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And name him Claptrap.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
This is what I meant by this episode making that theory harder to reconcile.  The one thing that still gives me pause is that Zeppo (which is how I'm going to refer to "the other Hemsworth" until I remember his character's name) asks if Delores is with a guest and the technician answers that they can't tell because of all the changes Ford is making.  I get that one way to read that is to setup how William can just call off the host trying to take her in by saying she's with him, but it can also be a way of foreshadowing that when they were talking she might not have been with William.

It almost feels as if the show anticipated that the multiple timelines theory would be out there as there are scenes that feel almost designed to refute it without actually quite doing so.  We'll see.  I think the title of one of the upcoming episodes supports the theory as well, but it could also refer to something else.
Click to expand...


Stubbs = Zeppo

Oh, and I'm pretty sure he's a bot.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Something I noticed, or paid more attention to on rewatch is that Delores had a flashback/memory scene in the town, when she was presumably with William - that would put William in the current timeline, not T-30.

 
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