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**Official YANKEES 2009 Thread** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter shadyridr
- Start date
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I'm in the camp that wants nothing to do with Lackey. Maybe I'm dumb, and maybe I just can't get past his face...but whatever the reason, I don't want to add him. I believe he had some arm issues last year, he doesn't seem like a fan favorite, and it would give the Yankee haters even more fodder.
ETA: Yeah and he's 31. Not OLD by any means, but he'll need a 4- or 5-year deal and will command ace money...but when I watch him, I don't see an ace. And no, I don't see one in A.J. Burnett either on a consistent basis. But A) Just because we have one non-ace making ace money doesn't mean we should have two, and B) When Burnett is "on", he's as good as anyone in the game. Lackey really only takes over 3-4 games a year it seems.
ETA: Yeah and he's 31. Not OLD by any means, but he'll need a 4- or 5-year deal and will command ace money...but when I watch him, I don't see an ace. And no, I don't see one in A.J. Burnett either on a consistent basis. But A) Just because we have one non-ace making ace money doesn't mean we should have two, and B) When Burnett is "on", he's as good as anyone in the game. Lackey really only takes over 3-4 games a year it seems.
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I dont want Lackey either. He is better than AJ Burnett but how many big pitcher contracts do you wanna tie yourself up in for 4-5 yrs. We did it with CC cuz that was a no-brainer. I didnt agree with the AJ signing but any more would be overkill. Id be happy with a rotation of CC, AJ, pettitte, Joba, Hughes going into next year.
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ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Yes, I would pass on Lackey and use that money to sign Halladay and Mauer next year. 
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I actually hope Mauer stays in Minnesota. While he's probably the best offensive/defensive combo in the game this side of Pujols, he really belongs in Minnesota. He's a Minny guy, the absolute foundation of the team, superstar player, and the team's getting a new stadium...if they can't keep him, who CAN they keep? I love Mauer and if I had the choice to name one guy to start a franchise with, it'd probably be him. Which is all the more reason why there's no way the Twins should lose him.Not that the game is perfect now, but if Mauer becomes a Yankee next offseason, that would really kind of make my stomach turn.Yes, I would pass on Lackey and use that money to sign Halladay and Mauer next year.
Bogart
Footballguy
I think Lackey would make a solid number 4 or 5. Would be a solid move for them.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
The more I thought about it, the more a long-term deal for Halladay (for any team) would be a big mistake. He may very well remain healthy throughout the deal, but isn't he already like 33? Figure you're signing a 34-year-old to a five year deal and you're really pushing the bounds of what to expect from a guy like that in a post-steroid world.The track record of long-term pitcher deals isn't great as it is, and that's with guys signed that are still in their prime. Halladay seems just on the outskirts of his, so while I think he could be the exception to live up to his deal, it's not a good idea to tie up so much $ in CC/Burnett/Halladay's long term deals.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Anyone else here get tickets to the breakfast with Cashman and Francesa? I actually got 2. Well, technically, my wife got 2 so I have to take her. Anyone else going?
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Get there early.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I actually hope Mauer stays in Minnesota. While he's probably the best offensive/defensive combo in the game this side of Pujols, he really belongs in Minnesota. He's a Minny guy, the absolute foundation of the team, superstar player, and the team's getting a new stadium...if they can't keep him, who CAN they keep? I love Mauer and if I had the choice to name one guy to start a franchise with, it'd probably be him. Which is all the more reason why there's no way the Twins should lose him.Not that the game is perfect now, but if Mauer becomes a Yankee next offseason, that would really kind of make my stomach turn.Yes, I would pass on Lackey and use that money to sign Halladay and Mauer next year.
There aren't many players I feel this way about. But, Mauer is one that, as a baseball fan, I would like to see stay in Minnesota.
TLEF316
Footballguy
As long as you avoid the diet coke machine, you should be fine.
flysack
Footballguy
Someone explain to me why the Yankees are trading for Curtis Granderson!
They are giving up their star CF prospect, Austin Jackson, as well as their setup lefty, Phil Coke, to get a CF.
Why the #### aren't they ever happy with Melky in CF? He's a great defensive CF and is a quality .280 hitter.
Granderson has power with 30 HRs last season (a career high), but he only hit .249.
We're trading our setup leftie and our CF prospect for a less personable Nick Swisher? SERIOUSLY? WTF.
They are giving up their star CF prospect, Austin Jackson, as well as their setup lefty, Phil Coke, to get a CF.
Why the #### aren't they ever happy with Melky in CF? He's a great defensive CF and is a quality .280 hitter.
Granderson has power with 30 HRs last season (a career high), but he only hit .249.
We're trading our setup leftie and our CF prospect for a less personable Nick Swisher? SERIOUSLY? WTF.
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ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
umm, because he's good and all they gave up was a few spare parts. I love this trade for the yanks.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
All wrong. First, Granderson is BELOVED by the Detroit fans. A good buddy of mine said it best today that Tigers have their flags at half mast. He is as personable as they get. They love him there. In just his 2nd year in the bigs, MLB had him touring around the world to promote baseball, he was that likable of a character.
He is not Nick Swisher.
He is more like Alfonso Soriano. He's a better fielder, has great speed on the basepaths, and has a knack for big big plays (see his walk-off-catch vs. Willie Mo Pena in 2006 or whatever year it was in the playoffs as just one example).
This was a fantastic deal for the Yanks.
shadyridr
Footballguy
OOFNEWSFLASH: Melky sucks, Coke sucks and is not the setup man, and Jackson is not a star prospect. His ceiling is Granderson. And Granderson is one of the most well liked players in the game.
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Drew RosenhausFan
Footballguy
Coke is a useful piece, but he could regress to being just another lefty next year(he was probably only slightly better than that this year).
If the Yankees could guarantee that Jackson would become Granderson, they'd sign for it right now.
Its a great trade, even if Granderson hits .250 again.
If the Yankees could guarantee that Jackson would become Granderson, they'd sign for it right now.
Its a great trade, even if Granderson hits .250 again.
the moops
Footballguy
Pretty sure every word in this post is the exact opposite of correct.
igbomb
Footballguy
Yankees fans:
Why was Coke switched from a starter to a bullpen role? Was it just that the Yankees needed bullpen arms more than starters, or did he show that he couldn't cut it as a starter?
I ask because it's pretty clear that the Tigers will need help in the rotation a lot more than in the bullpen and it looks like Coke was pitching pretty well the last time he spent any significant time as a starter.
Why was Coke switched from a starter to a bullpen role? Was it just that the Yankees needed bullpen arms more than starters, or did he show that he couldn't cut it as a starter?
I ask because it's pretty clear that the Tigers will need help in the rotation a lot more than in the bullpen and it looks like Coke was pitching pretty well the last time he spent any significant time as a starter.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
It was more because they had no other lefty in the pen. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved Coke to the rotation. He is a fastball, slurve changeup guy
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igbomb
Footballguy
Thanks. I'm hoping they do move him to the rotation since the Tigers now have a surplus of lefty relievers (5 on the 40 man roster) and the 4th and 5th starters would currently come from some combination of Galarraga, Bonderman, and Robertson.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I am a little behind on the Granderson deal, but I want to say that everyone should gush about this deal for the Yanks because he is a force against righties, but don't ignore the fact that he should not play against lefties. Sure, Long could work with him, but he still would not hit well enough to play. Perspective: Melky actually hit lefties better than righties last year .763 OPS (a first), but even if you took the worst year of his last 3 years against lefties (2008 .578 OPS) it is slightly better than Grandersons last 3 years combined against lefties, OPS of .570. This guy should never start against a lefty until he has some breakthrough. This is why Cameron would be an excellent platoon guy.
BTW, I really like this trade as Granderson crushes righties (.940 OPS over the last 3 years), but we need to use him to his strengths.
The Yankees have an odd problem though as their two spare parts don't fit in well. Melky is really a 4th OF'r as he doesn't hit well enough to play a corner OF spot and can't field well enough to play CF. He is still young and may be able to become a corner Of'r when you take his solid defense in LF/RF into account. Gardner is still the best defensive CF'r on the team. Granderson is fine out there and better than Melky, but Gardner can save doubles with his legs. Gardner has also shown that after an adjustment period he has hit respectably for a guy with his speed and defense.
The odd part is that the team is probably better with Gardner is CF and Granderson in LF (platooning). I mentioned Cameron as a great platoon guy, but he may make too much to be a platoon guy. I have not scoured the free agents, but a righty who crushes lefties with not much else would be a good extra guy to get.
Pettitte: Maybe this is just a thank you? I am not sure why they went away from the incentive contract of last year even if they bumped the base up 1-2 mil, but he is being overpaid this year. I am OK with it as a thank you, but this should be it.
I would leave Joba in the pen and move Hughes to the rotation
I am in the minority, but the more I think about it, I would go after Lackey before the Bay/Holliday grouping (Bay would be my choice out of the 2). I think a top 3 of CC, Lackey and AJ would be terrific, we keep the minor league guys, and we are locked and loaded. We can make due with OF'r we have and by dropping Wang, Hairston, Molina, Hinske, we would save about 10 mil which would be enough to sign Matsui as I feel that Matsui pays for himself with Japanese money. Matsui would probably get a decrease of 3 mil off his salary and he should be fine. Next year Posada will need some DH time and that will increase the following year to probably full time DH. I would let Damon go.
I doubt the Yankees will platoon Granderson even though it is clear they should. as for who they go after, I don't know, but I think Lackey is underrated and you could lock him down for a sub 4 ERA. I am not sure what the price will be, but I would guess 4 years at 70 mil?
Add Granderson 5.5 mil
Add Lackey 17.5 mil
Subtract Damon -13
Subtract the 10 mil for other players above -10
That is a wash and I think Matsui would not get a raise, in fact probably drop to 10 mil or maybe even less. Those extra 3 mil could be used to fill out the platoon guy I am looking for.
Now, I am OK if we don't get Lackey (seems kind of like an ### - but that could just be from my perspective and Burnett is similar), but I don't think we should re-sign Damon and I do not want to give up prospects for Halladay. We could always get him next year if he is available. If we don't get Lackey, I would kick the tires on Bay. Holliday hits righties better and that is not what the Yanks need and I am concerned about his playing poorly for Oakland after playing most of his career on the moon.
ETA: Lackey is only one year younger than Halladay and Halladay is the type of pitcher I have said in the past is the type of player the yanks should go after. I would find out what the asking price is and also what the contract demands are, but I would agree I would rather have one Halladay and say 15 mil to play with than a Lackey and a Burnett. The kicker are the prospects though. I would stay in the running because having CC and Halladay at the top of a rotation will guarantee a good season barring injury. I don't like giving a 33 year old (in May) too much money and years, but 36 would be a 4 year contract and 37 would be a 5 year deal and that is what Andy just pitched at.
BTW, I really like this trade as Granderson crushes righties (.940 OPS over the last 3 years), but we need to use him to his strengths.
The Yankees have an odd problem though as their two spare parts don't fit in well. Melky is really a 4th OF'r as he doesn't hit well enough to play a corner OF spot and can't field well enough to play CF. He is still young and may be able to become a corner Of'r when you take his solid defense in LF/RF into account. Gardner is still the best defensive CF'r on the team. Granderson is fine out there and better than Melky, but Gardner can save doubles with his legs. Gardner has also shown that after an adjustment period he has hit respectably for a guy with his speed and defense.
The odd part is that the team is probably better with Gardner is CF and Granderson in LF (platooning). I mentioned Cameron as a great platoon guy, but he may make too much to be a platoon guy. I have not scoured the free agents, but a righty who crushes lefties with not much else would be a good extra guy to get.
Pettitte: Maybe this is just a thank you? I am not sure why they went away from the incentive contract of last year even if they bumped the base up 1-2 mil, but he is being overpaid this year. I am OK with it as a thank you, but this should be it.
I would leave Joba in the pen and move Hughes to the rotation
I am in the minority, but the more I think about it, I would go after Lackey before the Bay/Holliday grouping (Bay would be my choice out of the 2). I think a top 3 of CC, Lackey and AJ would be terrific, we keep the minor league guys, and we are locked and loaded. We can make due with OF'r we have and by dropping Wang, Hairston, Molina, Hinske, we would save about 10 mil which would be enough to sign Matsui as I feel that Matsui pays for himself with Japanese money. Matsui would probably get a decrease of 3 mil off his salary and he should be fine. Next year Posada will need some DH time and that will increase the following year to probably full time DH. I would let Damon go.
I doubt the Yankees will platoon Granderson even though it is clear they should. as for who they go after, I don't know, but I think Lackey is underrated and you could lock him down for a sub 4 ERA. I am not sure what the price will be, but I would guess 4 years at 70 mil?
Add Granderson 5.5 mil
Add Lackey 17.5 mil
Subtract Damon -13
Subtract the 10 mil for other players above -10
That is a wash and I think Matsui would not get a raise, in fact probably drop to 10 mil or maybe even less. Those extra 3 mil could be used to fill out the platoon guy I am looking for.
Now, I am OK if we don't get Lackey (seems kind of like an ### - but that could just be from my perspective and Burnett is similar), but I don't think we should re-sign Damon and I do not want to give up prospects for Halladay. We could always get him next year if he is available. If we don't get Lackey, I would kick the tires on Bay. Holliday hits righties better and that is not what the Yanks need and I am concerned about his playing poorly for Oakland after playing most of his career on the moon.
ETA: Lackey is only one year younger than Halladay and Halladay is the type of pitcher I have said in the past is the type of player the yanks should go after. I would find out what the asking price is and also what the contract demands are, but I would agree I would rather have one Halladay and say 15 mil to play with than a Lackey and a Burnett. The kicker are the prospects though. I would stay in the running because having CC and Halladay at the top of a rotation will guarantee a good season barring injury. I don't like giving a 33 year old (in May) too much money and years, but 36 would be a 4 year contract and 37 would be a 5 year deal and that is what Andy just pitched at.
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I am going to plea for Joba to be in the bullpen full time now.
The rotation is going to be:
1. CC
2. AJ
3. Andy
4. Vazquez (I still can't believe that)
5. Hughes
Joba in the 8th, Mo in the 9th.
Work with me here now Brian, please.
The rotation is going to be:
1. CC
2. AJ
3. Andy
4. Vazquez (I still can't believe that)
5. Hughes
Joba in the 8th, Mo in the 9th.
Work with me here now Brian, please.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
You can't plan anything around Wang
Guy has now missed essentially 2 full seasons due to health
Plus, in the time he has pitched he has been putrid
Who plays LF now?
Guy has now missed essentially 2 full seasons due to health
Plus, in the time he has pitched he has been putrid
Who plays LF now?
TLEF316
Footballguy
i agree you cant plan around him, but i would have been ok with Mitre as the # 5 starter to start the year in the hopes that you get wang back for the 2nd half.I still think the guy can pitch if he gets healthy again. it would be a shame to see him do it elsewhere.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Holliday
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Maybe Damon comes back now?
Read some story that he had lowered his asking price considerably
Read some story that he had lowered his asking price considerably
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Um...no BA ranked Vizcaino as the Yankees 3rd best prospect
shadyridr
Footballguy
He played for their low-A Staten Island team. Lets not start sucking each others ##### on him just yet.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
He is.Straight salary-dump for Atlanta where they picked up a promising young pitcher. Helps the Yanks more short-term unless Atlanta uses the savings to sign a big bat in the OF or at 1B.Olney is saying Vizcaino isnt in the deal
Eephus
Footballguy
Trades aren't zero sum. It's a good deal for the Yankees but not necessarily a bad one for Atlanta. Vazquez is in the final year of his contract and the Braves weren't going to resign him. Atlanta is betting the package they got from the Yankees is better than what Vazquez would have brought at the deadline or in compensatory picks next off-season. Plus, they shed salary, which isn't a concern for the Yankees.
Chairshot
Footballguy
Atlanta got a lot less then I thought they would get for Vazquez. Yankees gave up basically nothing in the way of starting talent.
I have no idea if Vazquez will be any better this time around then he was the 1st time for the Yanks. I worry a little bit that he doesn't have the mental makeup to really shine in NY.
Regardless, they gave up next to nothing for him and he will be a 3/4 starter in that rotation, so there won't be a lot asked of him. Good deal for the Yanks, seems like a low return for the Braves.
I have no idea if Vazquez will be any better this time around then he was the 1st time for the Yanks. I worry a little bit that he doesn't have the mental makeup to really shine in NY.
Regardless, they gave up next to nothing for him and he will be a 3/4 starter in that rotation, so there won't be a lot asked of him. Good deal for the Yanks, seems like a low return for the Braves.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Vazquez only had 2 good months when he was with NY the first time.
Its all gravy if the top 3 hold up and Hughes lives up to even 1/2 of his potential, but at this point, i have a bad feeling vazquez is nothing more than 200 innings of league average performance pitching in the AL east.
of course, they gave up very little, so if thats the case, its still a good trade.
Its all gravy if the top 3 hold up and Hughes lives up to even 1/2 of his potential, but at this point, i have a bad feeling vazquez is nothing more than 200 innings of league average performance pitching in the AL east.
of course, they gave up very little, so if thats the case, its still a good trade.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Yankees hit with close to $25.7M luxury tax
USA TODAY
NEW YORK (AP) — Winning came with a hefty price for the New York Yankees.
The World Series champions were hit with a luxury tax of nearly $25.69 million Monday, the penalty for once again crossing the payroll threshold in baseball's collective bargaining agreement.
New York is the only team to pay a tax for this season and has crossed the threshold in all seven years since the tax started. According to the collective bargaining agreement, the Yankees must send a check to the commissioner's office by Jan. 31.
The Yankees have been billed $174 million of the tax's $190 million total since 2003. The only other teams to pay have been Boston ($13.9 million for 2004-7), Detroit ($1.3 million for 2008) and the Los Angeles Angels ($927,059 for 2004).
At least the Yankees got value for their spending, winning the World Series for the first time since 2000 after adding high-priced free agents CC Sabathia (FSY), A.J. Burnett (FSY) and Mark Teixeira (FSY). And the Yankees did lower their tax bill from $26.86 million last year, when their streak of consecutive playoff appearances ended at 13.
New York's payroll was $226.2 million for the purpose of the luxury tax and the Yankees pay at a 40% rate for the amount over $162 million. To compute the payroll, Major League Baseball uses the average annual values of contracts for players on 40-man rosters and adds benefits.
The Yankees' regular payroll — using 2009 salaries and prorated shares of signing bonuses — finished at $220 million. That was a drop of $2.5 million from 2008 but more than $77.8 million higher than any other team — a gap larger than the payrolls of the bottom 11 clubs.
The New York Mets were second at $142.2 million, followed by the equally disappointing Chicago Cubs ($141.6 million).
Boston ($140.5 million) was next, followed by Detroit ($139.4 million) and NL champion Philadelphia ($138.3 million), a big increase from the $112.7 million the Phillies spent when they won the World Series in 2008.
Only two teams outside the top 11 by payroll made the postseason: Colorado (16th at $84.5 million) and Minnesota (23rd at $73.1 million).
Florida again was last in the majors, even though the Marlins raised their payroll by $10.5 million to $37.5 million. San Diego dropped from 23rd at $71.2 million to 29th at $43.2 million.
Half the 30 teams cut payroll from 2008. In addition to the Padres, Seattle dropped from $120.5 million to $102.3 million, Toronto fell from $98.3 million to $84.1 million and Cincinnati sliced from $82.9 million to $72.7 million.
Besides the Phillies, other teams with big increases were Tampa Bay ($51.0 million to $71.2 million), San Francisco ($82.1 million to $95.2 million), Kansas City ($69.2 million to $81.9 million), the Cubs ($130.5 million to $141.6 million) and Washington ($59.7 million to $69.3 million).
Overall payroll rose 1.2% to $2.91 billion from $2.88 billion, down from a 6.3% increase the previous year.
Payroll figures are for 40-man rosters and include salaries and prorated shares of signing bonuses, earned incentive bonuses, non-cash compensation, buyouts of unexercised options and cash transactions, such as money included in trades. In some cases, parts of salaries that are deferred are discounted to reflect present-day values.
The commissioner's office computed the average salary at $2,882,336. The players' association, which uses slightly different methods of calculation, had its average at $2,996,106.
No shock here, Yanks spend the bucks to win
USA TODAY
NEW YORK (AP) — Winning came with a hefty price for the New York Yankees.
The World Series champions were hit with a luxury tax of nearly $25.69 million Monday, the penalty for once again crossing the payroll threshold in baseball's collective bargaining agreement.
New York is the only team to pay a tax for this season and has crossed the threshold in all seven years since the tax started. According to the collective bargaining agreement, the Yankees must send a check to the commissioner's office by Jan. 31.
The Yankees have been billed $174 million of the tax's $190 million total since 2003. The only other teams to pay have been Boston ($13.9 million for 2004-7), Detroit ($1.3 million for 2008) and the Los Angeles Angels ($927,059 for 2004).
At least the Yankees got value for their spending, winning the World Series for the first time since 2000 after adding high-priced free agents CC Sabathia (FSY), A.J. Burnett (FSY) and Mark Teixeira (FSY). And the Yankees did lower their tax bill from $26.86 million last year, when their streak of consecutive playoff appearances ended at 13.
New York's payroll was $226.2 million for the purpose of the luxury tax and the Yankees pay at a 40% rate for the amount over $162 million. To compute the payroll, Major League Baseball uses the average annual values of contracts for players on 40-man rosters and adds benefits.
The Yankees' regular payroll — using 2009 salaries and prorated shares of signing bonuses — finished at $220 million. That was a drop of $2.5 million from 2008 but more than $77.8 million higher than any other team — a gap larger than the payrolls of the bottom 11 clubs.
The New York Mets were second at $142.2 million, followed by the equally disappointing Chicago Cubs ($141.6 million).
Boston ($140.5 million) was next, followed by Detroit ($139.4 million) and NL champion Philadelphia ($138.3 million), a big increase from the $112.7 million the Phillies spent when they won the World Series in 2008.
Only two teams outside the top 11 by payroll made the postseason: Colorado (16th at $84.5 million) and Minnesota (23rd at $73.1 million).
Florida again was last in the majors, even though the Marlins raised their payroll by $10.5 million to $37.5 million. San Diego dropped from 23rd at $71.2 million to 29th at $43.2 million.
Half the 30 teams cut payroll from 2008. In addition to the Padres, Seattle dropped from $120.5 million to $102.3 million, Toronto fell from $98.3 million to $84.1 million and Cincinnati sliced from $82.9 million to $72.7 million.
Besides the Phillies, other teams with big increases were Tampa Bay ($51.0 million to $71.2 million), San Francisco ($82.1 million to $95.2 million), Kansas City ($69.2 million to $81.9 million), the Cubs ($130.5 million to $141.6 million) and Washington ($59.7 million to $69.3 million).
Overall payroll rose 1.2% to $2.91 billion from $2.88 billion, down from a 6.3% increase the previous year.
Payroll figures are for 40-man rosters and include salaries and prorated shares of signing bonuses, earned incentive bonuses, non-cash compensation, buyouts of unexercised options and cash transactions, such as money included in trades. In some cases, parts of salaries that are deferred are discounted to reflect present-day values.
The commissioner's office computed the average salary at $2,882,336. The players' association, which uses slightly different methods of calculation, had its average at $2,996,106.
No shock here, Yanks spend the bucks to win
