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Correct. So even if that trade wasn't a win, it wasn't the horrible loss people want us to believe either.
Looking at the big picture (smaller now with Prince out of the frame) is always a good thing.
It might turn out okay a few years down the line but right now it looks horrendous. Best realistic upside imo turns this into a mediocre deal couple years from now. Interesting to see how it pans out.
Like I said, it is only one part of the big picture. Bottom line is the final team they end up fielding, not each seperate deal they make.
I don't think trading Fister in principle is necessarily a bad idea, but in no scenario is getting 25 cents on the dollar going to be a good thing overall.Like I said, it is only one part of the big picture. Bottom line is the final team they end up fielding, not each seperate deal they make.
Trees, meet forest.
You don't know what the realistic upside is, people thought trading away Granderson and EJAX for Scherzer, Coke and AJAX was stupid also. Dombrowski isn't one of the three best GMs in baseball for making deals that are certain to end up mediocre. He got Carlos Guillen for a song before Guillen became an All-Star, Scherzer before he became the best pitcher in baseball, Cabrera before he became the best hitter of your lifetime.
Do you think the Nats' package was the best that Detroit could possibly do? Apparently a lot of GM's have been lamenting that they didn't even know Fister was getting dealt. He was projected to make 6mm this year in arbitration, which makes him a pretty amazing value. That's less than Jason Vargas.You don't know what the realistic upside is, people thought trading away Granderson and EJAX for Scherzer, Coke and AJAX was stupid also. Dombrowski isn't one of the three best GMs in baseball for making deals that are certain to end up mediocre. He got Carlos Guillen for a song before Guillen became an All-Star, Scherzer before he became the best pitcher in baseball, Cabrera before he became the best hitter of your lifetime.
Dave Dombrowski is the King of Getting Best Long-Term value
Fister doesn't watch tape, he pitches on feel. He has very average stuff but has a great deal of movement. It's quite possible they saw something in him they didn't like long-term, and felt they'd get what they could now. A similar deal for Porcello would have been fine for fans and pundits IMO, so it's obvious the Tigers like Porcello more than Fister. If Ray ends up as a ML starting pitcher, this trade will be a win for the franchise.
Bottom line, I trust Dave Dombrowski more than I trust the opinions of posters at a fantasy football board, or any fan for that matter.
Projected to make $7mm.Do you think the Nats' package was the best that Detroit could possibly do? Apparently a lot of GM's have been lamenting that they didn't even know Fister was getting dealt. He was projected to make 6mm this year in arbitration, which makes him a pretty amazing value. That's less than Jason Vargas.You don't know what the realistic upside is, people thought trading away Granderson and EJAX for Scherzer, Coke and AJAX was stupid also. Dombrowski isn't one of the three best GMs in baseball for making deals that are certain to end up mediocre. He got Carlos Guillen for a song before Guillen became an All-Star, Scherzer before he became the best pitcher in baseball, Cabrera before he became the best hitter of your lifetime.
Dave Dombrowski is the King of Getting Best Long-Term value
Fister doesn't watch tape, he pitches on feel. He has very average stuff but has a great deal of movement. It's quite possible they saw something in him they didn't like long-term, and felt they'd get what they could now. A similar deal for Porcello would have been fine for fans and pundits IMO, so it's obvious the Tigers like Porcello more than Fister. If Ray ends up as a ML starting pitcher, this trade will be a win for the franchise.
Bottom line, I trust Dave Dombrowski more than I trust the opinions of posters at a fantasy football board, or any fan for that matter.
Twins might only lose 90 games this year with Phil Hughes and Nolasco. Could be huge!
Lombardozzi hasn't really hit in over 750 MLB PAs. His minor league production was largely based in AVG, which hasn't translated well to Major League pitching.Projected to make $7mm.Do you think the Nats' package was the best that Detroit could possibly do? Apparently a lot of GM's have been lamenting that they didn't even know Fister was getting dealt. He was projected to make 6mm this year in arbitration, which makes him a pretty amazing value. That's less than Jason Vargas.You don't know what the realistic upside is, people thought trading away Granderson and EJAX for Scherzer, Coke and AJAX was stupid also. Dombrowski isn't one of the three best GMs in baseball for making deals that are certain to end up mediocre. He got Carlos Guillen for a song before Guillen became an All-Star, Scherzer before he became the best pitcher in baseball, Cabrera before he became the best hitter of your lifetime.
Dave Dombrowski is the King of Getting Best Long-Term value
Fister doesn't watch tape, he pitches on feel. He has very average stuff but has a great deal of movement. It's quite possible they saw something in him they didn't like long-term, and felt they'd get what they could now. A similar deal for Porcello would have been fine for fans and pundits IMO, so it's obvious the Tigers like Porcello more than Fister. If Ray ends up as a ML starting pitcher, this trade will be a win for the franchise.
Bottom line, I trust Dave Dombrowski more than I trust the opinions of posters at a fantasy football board, or any fan for that matter.
No I have no idea if they could have gotten something better, I don't necessarily understand the trade. As far as the GMs go, they all knew Fister was on the trade block but likely assumed Detroit would keep Fister, and deal Porcello. Have to give credit to Rizzo who may have known Dombrowski liked a couple of their prospects, and maybe Lombardozzi. No idea.
I do think people are selling Lombardozzi short calling him another "Ramon Santiago." 25 years old, LH bat, .780 OPS in the minors who can play 2B, 3B, and the OF. Nats fans were screaming for him to play over Espinosa, and then Lombardozzi just didn't have that good of a season when he got a shot.
This makes me wonder if the plan is for Kinsler to move to 3B.
Getting 30 or so at bats vs Phil Hughes might change that.Lombardozzi hasn't really hit in over 750 MLB PAs. His minor league production was largely based in AVG, which hasn't translated well to Major League pitching.Projected to make $7mm.Do you think the Nats' package was the best that Detroit could possibly do? Apparently a lot of GM's have been lamenting that they didn't even know Fister was getting dealt. He was projected to make 6mm this year in arbitration, which makes him a pretty amazing value. That's less than Jason Vargas.You don't know what the realistic upside is, people thought trading away Granderson and EJAX for Scherzer, Coke and AJAX was stupid also. Dombrowski isn't one of the three best GMs in baseball for making deals that are certain to end up mediocre. He got Carlos Guillen for a song before Guillen became an All-Star, Scherzer before he became the best pitcher in baseball, Cabrera before he became the best hitter of your lifetime.
Dave Dombrowski is the King of Getting Best Long-Term value
Fister doesn't watch tape, he pitches on feel. He has very average stuff but has a great deal of movement. It's quite possible they saw something in him they didn't like long-term, and felt they'd get what they could now. A similar deal for Porcello would have been fine for fans and pundits IMO, so it's obvious the Tigers like Porcello more than Fister. If Ray ends up as a ML starting pitcher, this trade will be a win for the franchise.
Bottom line, I trust Dave Dombrowski more than I trust the opinions of posters at a fantasy football board, or any fan for that matter.
No I have no idea if they could have gotten something better, I don't necessarily understand the trade. As far as the GMs go, they all knew Fister was on the trade block but likely assumed Detroit would keep Fister, and deal Porcello. Have to give credit to Rizzo who may have known Dombrowski liked a couple of their prospects, and maybe Lombardozzi. No idea.
I do think people are selling Lombardozzi short calling him another "Ramon Santiago." 25 years old, LH bat, .780 OPS in the minors who can play 2B, 3B, and the OF. Nats fans were screaming for him to play over Espinosa, and then Lombardozzi just didn't have that good of a season when he got a shot.
This makes me wonder if the plan is for Kinsler to move to 3B.
I agree DD twins are bad, but what the Twins are throwing$$$$ at 4/5 pitchers just shows the market for starting pitching. Still think the Tigers sold low on Fister, but Nathan is a steal, 80 saves in the past two years, good signing.
As someone looking at this from a completely neutral perspective, that's what I took away from it as well. :jotsnotesinfantasybaseballnotebook:
I think settled for keeping Porcello over Fister because Fister had more trade value. I think the Tigers wanted to get Smyly in the starting rotation. I can see liking Smyly better than Fister. Porcello did look stronger the last half of the season than he has in his career, but Fister is clearly better than Rick.
Mark Feinsand @FeinsandNYDN3h
Well Ellsbury just established the baseline for Choo, I'm thinking it's gonna take 5/100 to get him. Maybe the Tigers traded Fister because his grandfather killed a bunch of Koreans.
Source: Tigers are hot for a left-handed outfield bat; Shin-Soo Choo is their top target.
I knew Fister couldn't be his real name. I wonder what his dad's North Korean name was. I-Kill Choo?Well Ellsbury just established the baseline for Choo, I'm thinking it's gonna take 5/100 to get him. Maybe the Tigers traded Fister because his grandfather killed a bunch of Koreans.
Source: Tigers are hot for a left-handed outfield bat; Shin-Soo Choo is their top target.
I'm not sure anything short of trading Miggy could surprise me anymore. I didn't see Prince and Fister gone in the span of a couple of weeks. We do have TWO guys named Ian now though. A couple weeks ago we didn't have any. So, I mean, that's a net gain right there.Well Ellsbury just established the baseline for Choo, I'm thinking it's gonna take 5/100 to get him. Maybe the Tigers traded Fister because his grandfather killed a bunch of Koreans.
Source: Tigers are hot for a left-handed outfield bat; Shin-Soo Choo is their top target.
I'm not sure anything short of trading Miggy could surprise me anymore. I didn't see Prince and Fister gone in the span of a couple of weeks. We do have TWO guys named Ian now though. A couple weeks ago we didn't have any. So, I mean, that's a net gain right there.Well Ellsbury just established the baseline for Choo, I'm thinking it's gonna take 5/100 to get him. Maybe the Tigers traded Fister because his grandfather killed a bunch of Koreans.
Source: Tigers are hot for a left-handed outfield bat; Shin-Soo Choo is their top target.
Agree with what you said earlier about the Tigers liking Porcello more than Fister. You can count me among those who didn't realize he was only 24 or whatever. He's been around long enough that it seems like he should be 27 or 28.
I'm content to let DD do what DD does. I don't know how they did in the Fister deal - the return seems a little light on the surface -- but DD is reshaping the salary structure on the fly a little bit and he's earned the benefit of the doubt. He's taken care of 2B, added a couple nice pieces to the bullpen (including a bona fide closer), and if Castallenos can play a semi-everyday 3B then that and 1B will probably be improved. We've lost more offense than we've gained, but a guy like Choo could make up for some of it. Corey Hart might be an interesting low cost, high upside offensive gap-filler as well.
It took you 7 minutes to slam my post.......you're slipping.
.885 OPS last year, .855 career OPS. McClouth is the platoon player, not Choo.
.680 career OPS vs lefties, .932 vs rightiesIt took you 7 minutes to slam my post.......you're slipping.
.885 OPS last year, .855 career OPS. McClouth is the platoon player, not Choo.
If Detroit pays what Choo is asking then it's worthy of a laughy emoticon for sure. He's not getting better against lefties, he's getting worse. Everyone predicted a big year for him last year.....I definitely did since he was on my fantasy team but he'd be moving to Comerica. He'd be pathetic against lefties, and probably would hit around .275 with 10 HR's and 15 SB's. Not worth what his agent thinks nor is it what Tiger fans would be hoping for.
Is this tied to the rumors that are out there? As I've heard it, Avisail Garcia had an affair with Prince's wife - Garcia got traded, and it affected Prince's attitude toward the Detroit locker room.
(I first heard this from the former baseball coach here at my D III school. He's a passionate baseball fan (tho' rooting for the White Sox) and follows MLB closely. Some nephews of mine up in Grand Rapids over the holiday weekend had heard about Garcia as well.) Anyone here know if there's any truth to that? 
whats his WAR?Dude, he's a platoon player. Give it up already.
Korean War (25 June 1950 – 27 July 1953)whats his WAR?Dude, he's a platoon player. Give it up already.
Korean War (25 June 1950 – 27 July 1953)whats his WAR?Dude, he's a platoon player. Give it up already.
Dombrowski and Nathan are present. So far DD just announcing 2-year deal with Nathan. No word on how the walker fits into the contract terms but they did present his girlfriend with some flowers. Probably what sealed the deal imo.
