Okay I was wrong about Black Lives Matter (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

A comment @djmich made in another thread, quoting Bertrand Russell about uncertainty, prompted this admission. I have been way too adamant in recent days about the involvement of Black Lives Matter in last summer’s rioting. Because I believed (and still do) that referring to those riots as “BLM/Antifa riots” was a deliberately false narrative designed to denigrate all of those who marched last summer in peaceful protest of the treatment of black youths by the nations’ police forces, I went too far in the other direction and attempted to absolve BLM of ALL involvement in the looting, rioting and violence. 
The truth, as usual, appears to be murkier. I still believe that the majority of the violence was random and caused by young thugs unaffiliated with BLM or any other group. But in certain instances BLM members were involved, especially, it appears in the more organized Seattle and Portland protests. BLM’s leadership has also, sadly, gone out of its way at times to justify some of the violence and has made other extreme comments that could be viewed as encouragement. So I’m forced to acknowledge that I was at least partially wrong about this. 
I’m still not sure about Antifa. My feeling is that their involvement this last summer is way overblown, as is their involvement in American society period. I see them as sort of a new version of the Weather Underground but in name only without specific incidents that can be laid at their feet. But I have no idea if I’m right about this. 

 

[John123]

It would be a lot easier to determine what people/groups were involved in these things if the libs/left would allow actual enforcement of laws instead of insisting this behavior is justified and just letting it go.  Just last night a group of people piled snow up at the exit to a precinct in Seattle, preventing the police from that precinct from responding to calls.  They were allowed to do so because the police department in Seattle has been neutered.  So we'll never be able to say who was involved.

 

[djmich]

My personal view is that I think “BLM” was a minor element of actual rioting/violence in the sense that I’m not even sure how you even identify people that are members of the organization.

What I view as much more significant is the voice they and others (hi CNN, MSM) gave to supporting the violence which actually enabled and protected a bunch of people doing bad deeds.

In my view BLM is at least and probably more guilty of this than say the recent parallel of Trumps culpability in the capital riots.

I think they both acted irresponsibly without having to even examine if they directly threw punches.

 

[The Commish]

A comment @djmich made in another thread, quoting Bertrand Russell about uncertainty, prompted this admission. I have been way too adamant in recent days about the involvement of Black Lives Matter in last summer’s rioting. Because I believed (and still do) that referring to those riots as “BLM/Antifa riots” was a deliberately false narrative designed to denigrate all of those who marched last summer in peaceful protest of the treatment of black youths by the nations’ police forces, I went too far in the other direction and attempted to absolve BLM of ALL involvement in the looting, rioting and violence. 
The truth, as usual, appears to be murkier. I still believe that the majority of the violence was random and caused by young thugs unaffiliated with BLM or any other group. But in certain instances BLM members were involved, especially, it appears in the more organized Seattle and Portland protests. BLM’s leadership has also, sadly, gone out of its way at times to justify some of the violence and has made other extreme comments that could be viewed as encouragement. So I’m forced to acknowledge that I was at least partially wrong about this. 
I’m still not sure about Antifa. My feeling is that their involvement this last summer is way overblown, as is their involvement in American society period. I see them as sort of a new version of the Weather Underground but in name only without specific incidents that can be laid at their feet. But I have no idea if I’m right about this. 

It could be people affiliated with BLM too.  I agree it's probably a small % and the broad brush used is complete nonsense similar to that used for Jan 6, but it's relatively clear that we had 10s of millions of people protesting throughout the summer of 2020 all over this country and a handful of really bad incidents.  Comparing (or trying to equate) the two movements and the people making them up is dishonest IMO.

 

[djmich]

 

[djmich]

Just now, djmich said:

 

[rockaction]

And yet we have people in here still insisting that they never did this and getting hearts from other obtuse liberals when we know they

1. intermingled
   
2. coordinated
   
3. rioted
   
4. looted
   
5. pillaged
   

From firsthand sources, no less, willing and able to let their movements be traced by journalists. They absolutely did, and said that they did, and didn't condemn those who were.

This board is neat sometimes.

 

[timschochet]

And yet we have people in here still insisting that they never did this and getting hearts from other obtuse liberals when we know they

1. intermingled
   
2. coordinated
   
3. rioted
   
4. looted
   
5. pillaged
   

From firsthand sources, no less, willing and able to let their movements be traced by journalists. They absolutely did, and said that they did, and didn't condemn those who were.

This board is neat sometimes.

On a side note- what is the difference between looting and pillaging? I always meant to ask a pirate this should I run into one (or a Raiders fan.) 

 

[rockaction]

On a side note- what is the difference between looting and pillaging? I always meant to ask a pirate this should I run into one (or a Raiders fan.) 

I was rolling..."sacked" almost wound up in there, too. Rioting, looting, pillaging, and sacking. The holy grail.

 

[supermike80]

A comment @djmich made in another thread, quoting Bertrand Russell about uncertainty, prompted this admission. I have been way too adamant in recent days about the involvement of Black Lives Matter in last summer’s rioting. Because I believed (and still do) that referring to those riots as “BLM/Antifa riots” was a deliberately false narrative designed to denigrate all of those who marched last summer in peaceful protest of the treatment of black youths by the nations’ police forces, I went too far in the other direction and attempted to absolve BLM of ALL involvement in the looting, rioting and violence. 
The truth, as usual, appears to be murkier. I still believe that the majority of the violence was random and caused by young thugs unaffiliated with BLM or any other group. But in certain instances BLM members were involved, especially, it appears in the more organized Seattle and Portland protests. BLM’s leadership has also, sadly, gone out of its way at times to justify some of the violence and has made other extreme comments that could be viewed as encouragement. So I’m forced to acknowledge that I was at least partially wrong about this. 
I’m still not sure about Antifa. My feeling is that their involvement this last summer is way overblown, as is their involvement in American society period. I see them as sort of a new version of the Weather Underground but in name only without specific incidents that can be laid at their feet. But I have no idea if I’m right about this. 

So your media changed their stance on this and you followed suit.  Man.  The influence the media can and does have is just astounding.

 

[pecorino]

 The influence the media can and does have is just astounding.

I rarely find quotes in these threads that I agree with 100%. This is one of them. 

 

[Zow]

I was rolling..."sacked" almost wound up in there, too. Rioting, looting, pillaging, and sacking. The holy grail.

Plundering. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

I was rolling..."sacked" almost wound up in there, too. Rioting, looting, pillaging, and sacking. The holy grail.

How about plundering? 

 

[djmich]

Wandered into a BLM thread and now a strange need to go watch another episode of Vikings.

 

[timschochet]

So your media changed their stance on this and you followed suit.  Man.  The influence the media can and does have is just astounding.

That’s not what happened. As usual you make assumptions about other people here and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

I was challenged here in my assertions by many people, a few of whom I very much respect. This caused me to research my claims a little more deeply. I did so by looking at news sources I trust, all mainstream media, not from recent weeks but from the time of the riots. (So again as usual you’re wrong about this part too.) I found a discrepancy between what I had been asserting and the murkier truth and that’s what caused me to start this thread and make this admission. 
Your last point is probably the saddest part of your post. The main problem with our society today is that the mainstream media doesn’t have MORE influence; a significant segment of the population has chosen to reject their reporting of facts, instead relying on lies amd half truths that please their preheld point of views. Sadly you appear to be one of these.  

 

[supermike80]

That’s not what happened. As usual you make assumptions about other people here and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

I was challenged here in my assertions by many people, a few of whom I very much respect. This caused me to research my claims a little more deeply. I did so by looking at news sources I trust, all mainstream media, not from recent weeks but from the time of the riots. (So again as usual you’re wrong about this part too.) I found a discrepancy between what I had been asserting and the murkier truth and that’s what caused me to start this thread and make this admission. 
Your last point is probably the saddest part of your post. The main problem with our society today is that the mainstream media doesn’t have MORE influence; a significant segment of the population has chosen to reject their reporting of facts, instead relying on lies amd half truths that please their preheld point of views. Sadly you appear to be one of these.  

 

[djmich]

That’s not what happened. As usual you make assumptions about other people here and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

I was challenged here in my assertions by many people, a few of whom I very much respect. This caused me to research my claims a little more deeply. I did so by looking at news sources I trust, all mainstream media, not from recent weeks but from the time of the riots. (So again as usual you’re wrong about this part too.) I found a discrepancy between what I had been asserting and the murkier truth and that’s what caused me to start this thread and make this admission. 
Your last point is probably the saddest part of your post. The main problem with our society today is that the mainstream media doesn’t have MORE influence; a significant segment of the population has chosen to reject their reporting of facts, instead relying on lies amd half truths that please their preheld point of views. Sadly you appear to be one of these.  

a big "eek" on the underlined

I'd reframe to say a big problem is that the mainstream media, through their willful actions, has lost much of societies trust.

To be honest I don't even know its a problem.  I think a healthy dose of skepticism and independent thought is really good and if more people are doing their own research and thinking that is good.  If the MSM has behaved in a way that people no longer believe they can rely on them...thats on MSM not the people.  What's unhealthy is that the loudest 10% on both sides are also the ones with the least amount of independent thought AND rely on biased MSM to tell them what to think.

 

[rockaction]

What's unhealthy is that the loudest 10% on both sides are also the ones with the least amount of independent thought.

And each are in thrall to the fakest of news.

 

[djmich]

And each are in thrall to the fakest of news.

Ha, edited to add similar thought at same time you posted this

 

[rockaction]

I'd just like to say I agree with both tim and djmich about the MSM. People should believe the basic facts that are reported by the media. Before Trump's ascent, they were generally accurate, even if they missed stories and twisted the narrative. That said, this missing of stories and twisting the narrative led to people on the aggrieved side of things to seek out their own media for a fairer shake than the MSM was giving them in terms of those two things. It's really a chicken and egg problem. That also said, during the Trump administration the media became so bad at reporting basic facts and twisted the narrative to such a degree that every headline had to be checked for truth and integrity. Matt Taibbi, in his recent book "Hate, Inc.," called this sensationalism during Trump's time in office the "bombhole" theory of media, which essentially states that if you have a) a fractured audience and b) run headlines and banners proclaiming something, you have enough people's attention to pass off fiction as fact, and the audience, get this -- doesn't care about the facts, only that you fit their narrative comfort zone. It's really quite remarkable the detail he goes into, and is quite the media thesis.

 

[supermike80]

a big "eek" on the underlined

I'd reframe to say a big problem is that the mainstream media, through their willful actions, has lost much of societies trust.

To be honest I don't even know its a problem.  I think a healthy dose of skepticism and independent thought is really good and if more people are doing their own research and thinking that is good.  If the MSM has behaved in a way that people no longer believe they can rely on them...thats on MSM not the people.  What's unhealthy is that the loudest 10% on both sides are also the ones with the least amount of independent thought AND rely on biased MSM to tell them what to think.

You just gotta kind of back away and say  ok......when people lose it over their media like Tim just did.   They genuinely believe THEIR media is telling the full truth, always, thus the "media I trust"   You can't reason with those people.

 

[Doug B]

What's unhealthy is that the loudest 10% on both sides are also the ones with the least amount of independent thought AND rely on biased MSM to tell them what to think.

I think I know what you were going for ... but we know that the most extreme 10% of right-wing voices are not relying on what's understood as the "the mainstream media" for their information. Could maybe call it the "mainstream" right-wing media, though.

 

[tonydead]

 

[djmich]

I think I know what you were going for ... but we know that the most extreme 10% of right-wing voices are not relying on what's understood as the "the mainstream media" for their information. Could maybe call it the "mainstream" right-wing media, though.

You are correct and I understood that flaw when writing it...but figured people would know what I was going for.

I'm curious about your focus on the extreme right wing voices and excluding extreme left wing voices from your comment.  Do you believe the most extreme 10% of left-wing voices are relying on MSM?  If yes...wouldn't that seem to tell you something about MSM? 

 

[timschochet]

a big "eek" on the underlined

I'd reframe to say a big problem is that the mainstream media, through their willful actions, has lost much of societies trust.

To be honest I don't even know its a problem.  I think a healthy dose of skepticism and independent thought is really good and if more people are doing their own research and thinking that is good.  If the MSM has behaved in a way that people no longer believe they can rely on them...thats on MSM not the people.  What's unhealthy is that the loudest 10% on both sides are also the ones with the least amount of independent thought AND rely on biased MSM to tell them what to think.

I couldn’t disagree with you more. 
People like @supermike80don’t simply reject the mainstream media; that would be sad and pathetic enough. But they also believe lies told to them by right wing media, such as:

1. Trump won the election. 
2. The Trump/Russia investigation was a hoax. 
3. Climate change is a myth. 
4. Mask wearing is not vital to slowing down COVID. 
 

Etc etc. I could add dozens more. Lie after lie after lie. And when the mainstream media and the rest of us try to tell them the truth, the media is accused of being biased and we are accused of being brainwashed. Which is exactly how a cult deals with deniers. No, they are not a cult, but they do exhibit many of the same attributes IMO. 

 

[tonydead]

Guy that has been wrong about literally everything, starts a thread about himself admitting he was wrong.  Again.  Proceeds on proselytizing to everyone telling them how it is.  Rinse and repeat all day long.

 

[Doug B]

Do you believe the most extreme 10% of left-wing voices are relying on MSM?

For fundamental information, perhaps. However, who I define as the "furthest of the left" are shaped more by the rabbit holes of social-sciences academia as opposed to popular media.

 

[Jayrod]

As a poster who has eaten some crow on more than one occasion on these boards, kudos to tim for being willing to admit when he is wrong.  Too many people around here are "never wrong" and refuse to ever admit it, which makes it tough to have honest conversations.

 

[djmich]

Tim where I have a problem is "people like supermike80".  I kinda don't give a #### about supermike80 or labeling a bunch of people like supermike80 or quantifying how many supermike80's truly exist.  Yes, if you watch CNN you'd believe half the country is supermike80....is that your "truth" that you get from MSM? 

Getting away from supermike80...there are a crapton of morons in the country and that is frustrating to me.  But I recognize that in a country of 325M small %'s lead to many visible morons.  Yes, many of these people I think believe in nonsense.  All that said...you are basically letting some irrational fear of supermike80's drive you to some belief of MSM hook line and sinker and again this seeming certainty of thought?  Do you really believe MSM is unbiased and tells us the truth and nothing but the truth?

Look at the way you even wrote out your list of "wrongs"  It seems like you are hellbent on taking the absolute opposite view of the unwashed masses to the exclusion of any meaningful thought or examination or balance (hmm...what news sources tend to do that?).  I don't want to get on tangents but I'd look at your list and say....Do you think there was no voter fraud, do you think Trump was acting at Putins direction, what exactly is the impact of man on climate change relative to overall natural changes and I wont get into masks because simply i havent researched enough but I think certainty here is for fools given even the professionals have changed their stance on masks over the past year.

I dont read foxnews.com or the NYT.  Both to me are incredibly biased and for that reason untrustworthy.  In addition foxnews is terribly written.  I wish I could read the NYT because the quality is clearly high, but they have lost my trust....that's on them.

Given the site we are on....NYT is that stud running back, runs a 4.4, built like a truck, elite agility.  I wish I could put them in my lineup but they continuously fumble and I certainly don't want to reward that.  They're on my bench until they can hold onto the ball.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Guy that has been wrong about literally everything, starts a thread about himself admitting he was wrong.  Again.  Proceeds on proselytizing to everyone telling them how it is.  Rinse and repeat all day long.

And in that thread is telling everyone else what they should and shouldn't trust and believe.  

 

[timschochet]

Tim where I have a problem is "people like supermike80".  I kinda don't give a #### about supermike80 or labeling a bunch of people like supermike80 or quantifying how many supermike80's truly exist.  Yes, if you watch CNN you'd believe half the country is supermike80....is that your "truth" that you get from MSM? 

Getting away from supermike80...there are a crapton of morons in the country and that is frustrating to me.  But I recognize that in a country of 325M small %'s lead to many visible morons.  Yes, many of these people I think believe in nonsense.  All that said...you are basically letting some irrational fear of supermike80's drive you to some belief of MSM hook line and sinker and again this seeming certainty of thought?  Do you really believe MSM is unbiased and tells us the truth and nothing but the truth?

Look at the way you even wrote out your list of "wrongs"  It seems like you are hellbent on taking the absolute opposite view of the unwashed masses to the exclusion of any meaningful thought or examination or balance (hmm...what news sources tend to do that?).  I don't want to get on tangents but I'd look at your list and say....Do you think there was no voter fraud, do you think Trump was acting at Putins direction, what exactly is the impact of man on climate change relative to overall natural changes and I wont get into masks because simply i havent researched enough but I think certainty here is for fools given even the professionals have changed their stance on masks over the past year.

I dont read foxnews.com or the NYT.  Both to me are incredibly biased and for that reason untrustworthy.  In addition foxnews is terribly written.  I wish I could read the NYT because the quality is clearly high, but they have lost my trust....that's on them.

Given the site we are on....NYT is that stud running back, runs a 4.4, built like a truck, elite agility.  I wish I could put them in my lineup but they continuously fumble and I certainly don't want to reward that.  They're on my bench until they can hold onto the ball.  

You’ve made some good points here but I really disagree with a lot of what you wrote. If I have time later I will go into more detail. For now, let me say that NYT does not “continuously fumble.” 

 

[timschochet]

Guy that has been wrong about literally everything, starts a thread about himself admitting he was wrong.  Again.  Proceeds on proselytizing to everyone telling them how it is.  Rinse and repeat all day long.

Lololol. I will put my overall accuracy on these boards against yours any day of the week, and especially over the last year. 
When I get things wrong I like to admit it and correct myself. Have you ever done that? 

 

[Shula-holic]

a big "eek" on the underlined

I'd reframe to say a big problem is that the mainstream media, through their willful actions, has lost much of societies trust.

To be honest I don't even know its a problem.  I think a healthy dose of skepticism and independent thought is really good and if more people are doing their own research and thinking that is good.  If the MSM has behaved in a way that people no longer believe they can rely on them...thats on MSM not the people.  What's unhealthy is that the loudest 10% on both sides are also the ones with the least amount of independent thought AND rely on biased MSM to tell them what to think.

I used to watch CNN all the time, it was my homepage for my browser.  I even watched it for election night 2016.  They've gone so far off the reservation it's unwatchable today and I don't classify them today as MSM.  There are still a few reporters there I like but the network as a whole is no longer in the middle as it was between MSNBC and Fox.  

 

[timschochet]

I used to watch CNN all the time, it was my homepage for my browser.  I even watched it for election night 2016.  They've gone so far off the reservation it's unwatchable today and I don't classify them today as MSM.  There are still a few reporters there I like but the network as a whole is no longer in the middle as it was between MSNBC and Fox.  

If there was a serious earthquake that killed a lot of people, and you turned on CNN (let’s say by accident) would you trust what was being reported? 

 

[djmich]

If there was a serious earthquake that killed a lot of people, and you turned on CNN (let’s say by accident) would you trust what was being reported? 

Tim this is a terrible example and you know it.  Why didn't this example make your list of four above.  If CNN reported that 2+2=4 people would believe it (or they would say they didnt simply as a middle finger). 

How about CNN "reporting" that schools shouldn't be reopened? 

 

[timschochet]

What’s amazing to me is that we’ve just had 3 months of the former POTUS telling the most outrageous lies about the election being stolen, and these lies were backed up by right wing media while the MSM tried to report the actual facts, and these lies led directly to an insurrection which resulted in the deaths of many people (could have been a lot more) and even after all of that, people still want to discuss how they don’t trust the MSM. It would be absurd if it wasn’t so dangerous. 

 

[rockaction]

If there was a serious earthquake that killed a lot of people, and you turned on CNN (let’s say by accident) would you trust what was being reported? 

They'd bring up climate change during it, so the political questions would come firing in immediately from the anchors and their panels. That's exactly how it would go, and you can't tell me any differently with any amount or shred of honesty.

 

[timschochet]

Tim this is a terrible example and you know it.  Why didn't this example make your list of four above.  If CNN reported that 2+2=4 people would believe it (or they would say they didnt simply as a middle finger). 

How about CNN "reporting" that schools shouldn't be reopened? 

They don’t report that schools shouldn’t be reopened. They interview some health experts who offer that opinion and explain why. That’s pretty newsworthy. Do you think that medical public health experts have a partisan bias? 

 

[timschochet]

They'd bring up climate change during it, so the political questions would come firing in immediately from the anchors and their panels. That's exactly how it would go, and you can't tell me any differently with any amount or shred of honesty.

Climate change doesn’t cause earthquakes, which is why I used it as an example. So no I don’t think it would come up. 

 

[Shula-holic]

If there was a serious earthquake that killed a lot of people, and you turned on CNN (let’s say by accident) would you trust what was being reported? 

Sure.  I'd trust MSNBC and Fox for that too. CNN has turned into a political opinion channel. 

 

[rockaction]

What’s amazing to me is that we’ve just had 3 months of the former POTUS telling the most outrageous lies about the election being stolen, and these lies were backed up by right wing media while the MSM tried to report the actual facts, and these lies led directly to an insurrection which resulted in the deaths of many people (could have been a lot more) and even after all of that, people still want to discuss how they don’t trust the MSM. It would be absurd if it wasn’t so dangerous. 

I don't trust the MSM. At all. I have to use various sources to put together the real story. I have to totally tune out the narrative and question the selection of facts and in which order and to what purpose they serve in the MSM narrative. If you want to gobble it up, go ahead, but that's why you're wrong in this thread and wrong so often (other than Biden's ascendancy. You get full credit for that).

I do, however, want to echo Jayrod's point about admitting the possibility you may have erred. I try to do that, too, and we all should.

 

[timschochet]

But if you want me to bring up a different example fine: famous movie star dies. 
The point is I believe there are situations, non-political, where everyone trusts the MSM. 

 

[rockaction]

Climate change doesn’t cause earthquakes, which is why I used it as an example. So no I don’t think it would come up. 

Says you. The coverage of "extreme weather" always involves the political football of climate change these days. The California fires centered around it when Trump and Newsom got into a public debate about it.

 

[Shula-holic]

What’s amazing to me is that we’ve just had 3 months of the former POTUS telling the most outrageous lies about the election being stolen, and these lies were backed up by right wing media while the MSM tried to report the actual facts, and these lies led directly to an insurrection which resulted in the deaths of many people (could have been a lot more) and even after all of that, people still want to discuss how they don’t trust the MSM. It would be absurd if it wasn’t so dangerous. 

I get what you're saying but what about for those of us who don't feel the election was stolen but do feel that some of the old MSM (I don't feel comfortable grouping everyone so I use CNN as my example) is no longer fact based reporting when it comes to political issues?  I'm not some conspiracy theorist and I said on election night and will say today factually that Biden won.  But I also realize the difference in fact and opinion and when someone is giving me slant.  CNN feeds a slanted view these days.  I've never had a problem watching shows of people who disagree with me, I used to always watch Chris Matthews' show and often listened to Van Jones.  But we are sorely lacking down the middle coverage today.  

 

[djmich]

They don’t report that schools shouldn’t be reopened. They interview some health experts who offer that opinion and explain why. That’s pretty newsworthy. Do you think that medical public health experts have a partisan bias? 

Right, they don't just report things like earthquakes.  They spend the bulk of their time on things that are not "facts" and are actually opinions.

Yes, I think medical public health experts are human and have partisan biases.  I also think that there are many differences of opinion and uncertainties when it comes to science.  Lastly I absolutely don't believe that partisanship needs to get in the way of public health experts opinions.

That said...why do you think there are often "two" experts to provide competing views.  Who chooses the questions...Chris Cuomo...is he biased?  Who chooses the panelists.  Who navigates the discussion.  Who decides the topics of discussion.  Who writes the chyron's.  Cmon man.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

If there was a serious earthquake that killed a lot of people, and you turned on CNN (let’s say by accident) would you trust what was being reported? 

Are you incapable of recognizing the difference in reporting on an Earthquake and putting their spin on something political because they have an agenda?

 

[supermike80]

I couldn’t disagree with you more. 
People like @supermike80don’t simply reject the mainstream media; that would be sad and pathetic enough. But they also believe lies told to them by right wing media, such as:

1. Trump won the election. 
2. The Trump/Russia investigation was a hoax. 
3. Climate change is a myth. 
4. Mask wearing is not vital to slowing down COVID. 
 

Etc etc. I could add dozens more. Lie after lie after lie. And when the mainstream media and the rest of us try to tell them the truth, the media is accused of being biased and we are accused of being brainwashed. Which is exactly how a cult deals with deniers. No, they are not a cult, but they do exhibit many of the same attributes IMO. 

Well Tim that shows the real difference between you and I.  You are incapable of thinking someone is NOT reliant on the media like you are.   And that was my earlier gripe...People, such as yourself, are so dependent on the media to tell you how to think and what to think that you lose the ability to think on your own.

The media knows this, and they manipulate you terribly.

 

[tonydead]

Lololol. I will put my overall accuracy on these boards against yours any day of the week, and especially over the last year. 
When I get things wrong I like to admit it and correct myself. Have you ever done that? 

Any day of the week when you've defended the BLM/Antifa riots hundreds of times that day which you now admit you were wrong?  Ok, that was easy.    

 

[timschochet]

I don't trust the MSM. At all. 

This is a problem. I really don’t care if partisan types don’t trust the MSM- including some who have posted in this thread- their opinions don’t matter at all to me. I DO care about thoughtful people like yourself and @djmich. I suspect you two and I are never going to agree on a lot of issues, I’m too left for you and you’re too right for me on many things- but for us even to have a fruitful conversation on current events we need to have the same sources of fact.

Putting all else aside, are you willing to admit that in terms of the 2020 Presidential election, the MSM, including CNN, reported the facts generally correctly and that right wing media attempted to back up Trump’s outrageous lies? We can start there. 

 

[timschochet]

Gotta go to work now, I will respond to any posts later on.