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Olbermann crushes Jeter (1 Viewer)
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John Bender
Footballguy
Meatball of a pitch
BUT...
Well deserved. Awesome player, awesome guy. Great to watch that.
BUT...
Well deserved. Awesome player, awesome guy. Great to watch that.
doesn't get any better
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Really wanted that Kuroda win.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yeah. No reason to cover this at all.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Bitter shrimp **** Olbermann will investigate this travesty at 11:00!!!
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Dickie Dunn
Footballguy
That was nice of the Cardinals to trade Wainwright to the O's for one night.
T Bell
Footballguy
You recognize that the decision to cover this was made before anyone knew this would happen, right?
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
T Bell
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
You recognize that something like this is the very reason why jeter has gotten so much coverage, right?
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
One more year!
T Bell
Footballguy
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Hornsby was a 2b.A
A-rod was a juicehead.
I'll take 3450+ hits, a .310 average and nearly every postseason record in the book.
If you want to tell me about WAR, if WAR says Willie Randolph was a better player, then WAR needs to be reworked. Which I think we should all know by now given that it has Jason Heyward as an MVP candiate
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Jeter was never the best at his position at any point in his active career. That's not a great starting point for a best all-time argument.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Right. It's even sillier to have a starting point for an argument which nobody with a brain is entertaining.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Traditonal stats have been dismissed due to being flawed. But players judge themselves by Traditonal statistics. A player has never said, I need to get my WAR up. They compete in traditional statistics. So I think they still have value.IMAX 3D said:
Unless you want to tell me that someone going back through willie Randolph's box scores to somehow determine a range factor is plausible to you.
Hell. Modern players. Juan ligares was 4th in OF WAR in the nl.
I've watched 60 games of Juan ligares this year. Nice player. Not the 4th most important OF in the league. Sorry to deny the dogma of the number gods
T Bell
Footballguy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWmlRNfLckTraditonal stats have been dismissed due to being flawed. But players judge themselves by Traditonal statistics. A player has never said, I need to get my WAR up. They compete in traditional statistics. So I think they still have value.IMAX 3D said:
Unless you want to tell me that someone going back through willie Randolph's box scores to somehow determine a range factor is plausible to you.
Hell. Modern players. Juan ligares was 4th in OF WAR in the nl.
I've watched 60 games of Juan ligares this year. Nice player. Not the 4th most important OF in the league. Sorry to deny the dogma of the number gods
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
60 games and you cant get the guy's name right?
Vike Me
Footballguy
Who said that?Yankee23Fan said:The comment that he wouldn't be getting any of this love if he played in Kansas City is actually pretty stupid.datonn said:Nah, I just found a topic that got a lot of play/comments for me on Facebook, so I figured I'd rant and rave in the FFA too...see what type of fun ensued. Though my guess is that a guy with a handle of "Yankee23Fan" is a completely impartial observer on the subject, with no dog in the fight...either way.Yankee23Fan said:I sense a frustration in your life that has nothing to do with baseball.....datonn said:Yep. Numerous farewell events in other teams' stadiums, before/after games, ESPN2 becoming "ESPN2, aka the Derek Jeter Network," special commendation from the Commissioner's Office, etc, etc. just has barely met the mark for showing Jeter the respect he deserves. President Obama declaring today "Derek Jeter Day" as a national holiday, then all Federal buildings being ordered to fly their flags at half-mast, come Monday morning (our first day of our world, post-Jeter), would have been more appropriate! But hey, at least they've thrown him a tiny amount of respect...
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
It was born out of every team treating him like he was the best ever. Why opposing teams are having ceremonies and giving him expensive gifts I don't understand. That is where the backlash came from. A nice ovation and wave would have sufficed. They didn't have to give him gold plated surfboards or whatever.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
It's respect for a guy who was the face of the most popular franchise in sports. A guy who played the game the right way for a very long time, and was never in trouble off the field. Sadly, these days we have to recognize that. Mo got all that stuff last year and he was the best ever at what he did. This wasn't a tribute so much to Derek the player as it was to Derek the person.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Next up: the Ichiro farewell tour.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
It's weird that nobody begrudged Mo, though. In a way, I think Jeter represents the modern, corporate, PR face of America that Mo didn't. Jeter represents a lot of the stuff people hate about modern sports in America. Its exclusion. Its VIP ropes. Its money. Its distance. Its #####. But worst, imploring you to consume what's average, and telling you that it's great. In fact, often screaming at you that it's great, when all evidence is to the contrary. This is, of course, my own personal reaction to Jeter.
Even those of us in Boston loved Mo. Because Mo was truly a legend. Best I ever saw.
And, of course, he blew it in 2004.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
Aren't there HOF voters who say they'll never vote in someone from the steroid era?T Bell said:You mean the sacred history of the sport that they've methodically watered down by diminishing the value of records by turning a blind eye to PED's and rules changes, playoff expansions, etc.?I'm not much of a baseball guy, but isn't this sort of baseball's thing, the history of the sport being sacred and all?In fairness, I thought the Cal Ripken celebration for breaking Ty Cobb's consecutive games record was way overblown. Even he looked uncomfortable. A victory lap?
It's still real to some of them
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That's pretty amazing but it's more a statement about the team/franchise, not Jeter. I'm betting a ton of Braves who played in the 90s-early 2000s never played a home game after their team was eliminated from the playoff race.
Vike Me
Footballguy
Why wouldn't it be when you have been surrounded by a 200 million dollar payrol for most of your career.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Oh I totally acknowledge that's way more a product of a bottomless pit of money than jeter...
Still an impressive stat to me.
Props to jeter from a sox fan. Dude was great. Am ready for all the ball-washing and knob-slobbering to be over though... That last game at Fenway is going to be unwatchable.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
exactlyGhost Rider said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Teams did all of that for Chipper Jones - was he previously the best player ever before Jeter just recently overtook him?
Honoring the career of a great player who is arguably also the most well known player of his era isn't equating him to be the "best ever".
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Vike Me
Footballguy
They had a 15 year stretch, not 20 years where that was possible. I am not sure there were more than a couple who even made that.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I know you were just making a point, but I've looked this up in the past. The Yankee payroll in 2001 (what most consider to be the last year of the "dynasty" aka the pre-Giambi days) was about $112 million. Boston and the Dodgers were at $109, Mets were at $93, so the Yanks were first but they weren't lapping the field. But then it spiked to $125 million in 2002, $150 million in 2003, and $184 million in 2004, and then they were off to the races. Think about that, it went up by $74 million in THREE YEARS...that's just insane.
But yeah before that point, they were reasonably within range of everyone else. In 1998, they didn't even have the highest payroll in the game. Not pointing this out for any other reason than to say it's astounding, and yes with that sort of payroll they really should have made the playoffs just about every season.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well he's obviously the "best ever" since teams are now honoring him. Sorry Chipper, you had your moment.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Their run from 1996-2000 is absolutely amazing in retrospect, now that we know the playoffs have basically become a crapshoot since the addition of the division series in 1995. It's mind-boggling, especially since they never really had a shutdown ace during that run, the one thing that can shift the division series odds significantly.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Agreed, and as I've gotten older and watched all these playoff series I've come to a realization that the most amazing aspect of that run is just how much luck played a part in it. Like you said, the playoffs are such a crapshoot. The Tigers seem to knock us out of the postseason every time we get in, but that 2006 series was just absurd. No way that team had any business beating the Yankees.
But by the same token, the 2000 and 2001 Yankees had no business beating the A's either time. Even the 96 Yanks beating the Braves was pretty ridiculous. Jim Leyritz gets out in front of a hanging slider, and it starts a dynasty. If he's a quarter second early or late, we probably lose that series in five games. And of course, without Jeff Maier, the Yanks maybe don't even get there.
It's what bothers me the most about Yankee fans nowadays, that there's this assumption that if you lose in the playoffs, it's because you aren't good enough or the team was poorly constructed. At times, that's been true. But they were a Mariano Rivera save away from never having been exposed for their countless flaws in 2004, and maybe a few thousand midges away from the same thing in 2007. It's just all so random. So to have the talent yes, but also the great fortune, to be able to rattle off 4 titles in 5 years, just seems impossible to fathom anymore.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
They also had zero or one wild card spots available to them for the entire run while the Yankees had one or two.
There's some luck and quirks involved in Jeter's streak too. They missed the playoffs a few times during his career prior to this game, he just was either injured or the team finished the season on the road.
